Leaving Cert to be cancelled

Quantum Erasure · 07-05-2020 9:40pm #1

pretty much a done deal now, according to RTE News. students to be given predicted grades from teachers, based on their work throughout the year

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877?

"Students who are unhappy with their awarded grades will likely be given the option of sitting written exams at a much later date, possibly early next year."

can see problems with this down the line, but could it have gone ahead in reality?

walshb · 07-05-2020 9:41pm

I found it odd that they seemed so adamant that it would go ahead in the first place!

VinLieger · 07-05-2020 9:42pm

Teachers unions should be flailed for not allowing continuous assessment go ahead a few years ago.

plodder · 07-05-2020 9:44pm

Predicted grades from teachers, sorry but that sounds like a recipe for disaster. My son just did his college exams online. How could that be worse than predictive grades?

Duke of Url · 07-05-2020 9:44pm

I don’t see how predictive grades will work.

Lisha · 07-05-2020 9:44pm

There will be pandemonium if loads want to repeat next year if schools don’t have capacity to accept all. Disaster all round.

Atlantic Dawn · 07-05-2020 9:44pm

Wonder what they will do to award points for 3rd level.

c montgomery · 07-05-2020 9:44pm

I dont see why it can't go ahead

Loads of factories are open and working fine with social distancing

Open all classrooms in a school. 5 students per room with 1 teacher. Staggered arrival and leaving times

Atlantic Dawn · 07-05-2020 9:45pm

Duke of Url wrote: »

I don’t see how predictive grades will work.

Especially when the mock exams were widely shared online.

GazzaL · 07-05-2020 9:45pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

pretty much a done deal now, according to RTE News. students to be given predicted grades from teachers, based on their work throughout the year

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877?

"Students who are unhappy with their awarded grades will likely be given the option of sitting written exams at a much later date, possibly early next year."

can see problems with this down the line, but could it have gone ahead in reality?

If we were a nation with balls it could have gone ahead. A poor reflection on the country.

kwestfan08 · 07-05-2020 9:46pm

c montgomery wrote: »

I dont see why it can't go ahead

Loads of factories are open and working fine with social distancing

Open all classrooms in a school. 5 students per room with 1 teacher. Staggered arrival and leaving times

I was thinking the same. How is that not workable?

thomas 123 · 07-05-2020 9:47pm

Crazy plan.

6 years of being geared towards preforming an exam on the day to be replaced by the opinion of a teacher overnight.

The reason your exam is corrected by someone who doesn’t know you personally is so your personal relationships with teachers is not a factor.

If I was a leaving cert student right now I’d be failing 3/7 of my exams If my teachers opinions were what to go by.

Quantum Erasure · 07-05-2020 9:47pm

walshb wrote: »

I found it odd that they seemed so adamant that it would go ahead in the first place!

thought it was possible myself, delayed a month or so, but it should have been possible to sort it out.

wonder what'll happen with the CAO and uni's starting back, it'll hardly be back to a normal academic year starting september

dhaughton99 · 07-05-2020 9:48pm

c montgomery wrote: »

I dont see why it can't go ahead

Loads of factories are open and working fine with social distancing

Open all classrooms in a school. 5 students per room with 1 teacher. Staggered arrival and leaving times

Coz Leo is down with the kids.

Benimar · 07-05-2020 9:49pm

If the roadmap for re-opening is in anyway achievable, there is no reason to cancel the exams.

This is a terrible decision, and I’m amazed teachers have gone for this. Grading your own students won’t end well. They will be accused of either doing someone down, or looking after their ‘pets’ and most likely both!

Multipass · 07-05-2020 9:50pm

And when August comes, we’ll all be back to normal except that we’ve destroyed the hopes of the most hard working students. And set them an example of fear and hysteria. I can’t even write here what I think about this decision.

Clareman · 07-05-2020 9:51pm

When I heard of this the first thing that came to mind was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_bribery_scandal

GazzaL · 07-05-2020 9:53pm

Multipass wrote: »

And when August comes, we’ll all be back to normal except that we’ve destroyed the hopes of the most hard working students. And set them an example of fear and hysteria. I can’t even write here what I think about this decision.

We're pandering to the weakest. We're letting down the best and brightest. There are students out there who are champing at the bit to get their exams done and move on to the next stage of their lives.

Mrsmum · 07-05-2020 9:54pm

kwestfan08 wrote: »

I was thinking the same. How is that not workable?

I think maybe it's not about the safety of the exams but that there is no way to measure if all children got more or less the same opportunity to engage as their peers the way they would if they were in school every day.

thomas 123 · 07-05-2020 9:55pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think maybe it's not about the safety of the exams but that there is no way to measure if all children got more or less the same opportunity to engage as their peers the way they would if they were in school every day.

When it comes to the CAO you are measured against your year not historic years, so in my opinion this should not be a factor.

helpful · 07-05-2020 9:55pm

Seems like a pretty silly move on the part of the government. The leaving cert is a right of passage if nothing else and is a big achievement for students.
Teachers are leaving themselves open to so much abuse here. The parents knowing where to direct their anger if little Johnny doesn’t get into his first choice seems ludicrous. Also for students who wish to sit the exams telling them sometime next year maybe just won’t do? The students who wish to sit the exam should have the opportunity to do so on July 29th and be ready for cao offers for September, why should they have to delay a year of their lives. Would not like to be in 5th year now. Plus the leaving cert class of 2020 will forever have a stigma attached to them. Bad decision made by a government afraid of the social media warriors

RurtBeynolds · 07-05-2020 9:56pm

c montgomery wrote: »

I dont see why it can't go ahead

Loads of factories are open and working fine with social distancing

Open all classrooms in a school. 5 students per room with 1 teacher. Staggered arrival and leaving times

Get out of here with your logic and sensible suggestions.

igCorcaigh · 07-05-2020 9:57pm

This is very open to corruption.
Terrible idea.

SusieBlue · 07-05-2020 9:57pm

I did pretty poor in most of my exams throughout 6th year, I even failed a few of my pres iirc.
The pres are meant to be a kick up the hole to those who are coasting. I put my head down after the shock I got from the results of mine, put in a solid few months of work and study and did a better than average leaving cert.

I would have undoubtedly failed my whole leaving cert if it had gone off predicted grades based on the work done up till February of my leaving cert year. Many others are now going to be in the same boat.
This is extremely unfair on these kids and I can’t believe it’s happening.
As well as that, anyone who has a teacher who doesn’t like them is f*cked. It’s just inconceivable that they can’t come up with a better solution than this.

mickdw · 07-05-2020 9:58pm

I think cancelling and offering predicted grades is sensible.
The schools will have lots of info to go off from past results to project work to mocks.
A fair grade can surely be arrived at.

bluefinger · 07-05-2020 9:58pm

Can't see why a teacher would give a student they are teaching a poor mark when it reflects directly on their teaching ability.

Sarn · 07-05-2020 10:00pm

There’s no way they’ll be able to have predictive grades ready for the autumn. That would require a lot of buy in and effort from the teachers.

TheWarChicken · 07-05-2020 10:00pm

Look, it's not just about the exams themselves, it's about the fact that they aren't equatable to the exams done last year, given that they've missed a whole term at this point. Every opposition party is in favor of cancelling it, 79% of surveyed students are in favor of cancelling it, the teachers unions are in favor of cancelling it and every other country in Europe has cancelled it. The grades are going to be given by the bell curve anyway, in theory there shouldn't be much deviation from previous years. Consider for a moment that maybe random people complaining online do not know as much as all the stakeholders present. The students voted for this and will reap what they have sown.

Multipass · 07-05-2020 10:02pm

It’s completely unfair - some of my sons teachers will give accurate predictions, others absolutely won’t. Why doesn’t the government just do a f@#xing lottery for college places, hell they could even charge for the tickets.

Amirani · 07-05-2020 10:03pm

bluefinger wrote: »

Can't see why a teacher would give a student they are teaching a poor mark when it reflects directly on their teaching ability.

They'll have to rank the class and use a bell curve. Will only be able to give a certain amount of each grade, so they will have to give some poor marks.

BrianBoru00 · 07-05-2020 10:03pm

For all its faults it is as fair a system that exists where the doctors child and the dole scroungers child face the exact same set of questions.
Of course there are differences in environment for study or access to grinds etc but predictive grades are farcical.

It's already happening ( yes , since this morning) where contact is being made with teachers hinting at what grades they should get ðŸ™„

Schools will only need to accommodate 20% of the students . Relatively easy to space out and restart schools in the next two weeks for leaving certs to balance the opportunity giving 9-10 weeks of school time to students.

Lack of real leadership from McHugh.

GazzaL · 07-05-2020 10:03pm

bluefinger wrote: »

Can't see why a teacher would give a student they are teaching a poor mark when it reflects directly on their teaching ability.

If they dislike a student, you can be sure of it.

Multipass · 07-05-2020 10:04pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Look, it's not just about the exams themselves, it's about the fact that they aren't equatable to the exams done last year, given that they've missed a whole term at this point. Every opposition party is in favor of cancelling it, 79% of surveyed students are in favor of cancelling it, the teachers unions are in favor of cancelling it and every other country in Europe has cancelled it. The grades are going to be given by the bell curve anyway, in theory there shouldn't be much deviation from previous years. Consider for a moment that maybe random people complaining online do not know as much as all the stakeholders present. The students voted for this and will reap what they have sown.

Which students voted for this, none I know. They haven’t missed a term, those that chose to have worked their asses off. The hardest working are getting a slap in the face. Good life lesson, sit back and do nothing.

rob316 · 07-05-2020 10:04pm

Can Tony Holohan be removed from so many decisions before this country is finished please. A bankrupting reopening timeline and now the future of our young students in doubt.
The public health can't be the only consideration in this. Ridiculous decision.

bluefinger · 07-05-2020 10:04pm

Amirani wrote: »

They'll have to rank the class and use a bell curve. Will only be able to give a certain amount of each grade, so they will have to give some poor marks.

Yeah but i doubt grades are normally distributed across the school system though so not sure how that would work.

bluefinger · 07-05-2020 10:04pm

Amirani wrote: »

They'll have to rank the class and use a bell curve. Will only be able to give a certain amount of each grade, so they will have to give some poor marks.

Yeah but i doubt grades are normally distributed across the school system though so not sure how that would work.

BrianBoru00 · 07-05-2020 10:05pm

Amirani wrote: »

They'll have to rank the class and use a bell curve. Will only be able to give a certain amount of each grade, so they will have to give some poor marks.

They won't -a class of 30 should not be using a bell curve let alone classes of 6-12 for a lot of subjects

Amirani · 07-05-2020 10:05pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Look, it's not just about the exams themselves, it's about the fact that they aren't equatable to the exams done last year, given that they've missed a whole term at this point. Every opposition party is in favor of cancelling it, 79% of surveyed students are in favor of cancelling it, the teachers unions are in favor of cancelling it and every other country in Europe has cancelled it. The grades are going to be given by the bell curve anyway, in theory there shouldn't be much deviation from previous years. Consider for a moment that maybe random people complaining online do not know as much as all the stakeholders present. The students voted for this and will reap what they have sown.

Any teachers I know are going mental about the decision

Head over to the Teaching and Lecturing forum, most are against this. Not all stakeholders are in favour of this at all...

igCorcaigh · 07-05-2020 10:05pm

c montgomery wrote: »

I dont see why it can't go ahead

Loads of factories are open and working fine with social distancing

Open all classrooms in a school. 5 students per room with 1 teacher. Staggered arrival and leaving times

Yes. Plenty of other large indoor places could be utilised too. Stadiums etc. Social distancing works.

What are other countries doing, out of curiosity?

History Queen · 07-05-2020 10:05pm

Benimar wrote: »

If the roadmap for re-opening is in anyway achievable, there is no reason to cancel the exams.

This is a terrible decision, and I’m amazed teachers have gone for this. Grading your own students won’t end well. They will be accused of either doing someone down, or looking after their ‘pets’ and most likely both!

Teachers do not want this!

ricero · 07-05-2020 10:06pm

This decision sums up the department of education and their performance this past decade under Fine Gael. Mchugh and the department backed themselves into a corner and made no real plans.

Its unfair on the students and on the mental health of teachers.

Amirani · 07-05-2020 10:06pm

rob316 wrote: »

Can Tony Holohan be removed from so many decisions before this country is finished please. A bankrupting reopening timeline and now the future of our young students in doubt.
The public health can't be the only consideration in this. Ridiculous decision.

It wasn't the Chief Medical Officer who made this decision. You don't have a clue do you?

bluefinger · 07-05-2020 10:07pm

GazzaL wrote: »

If they dislike a student, you can be sure of it.

Yes this will happen but I'd say those not liked will be in the minority.

Spanish Eyes · 07-05-2020 10:08pm

I wonder what the majority of STUDENTS think of this, not their parents.

It’s a life lesson in the time of Corona.

Amirani · 07-05-2020 10:08pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

They won't -a class of 30 should not be using a bell curve let alone classes of 6-12 for a lot of subjects

The bell curve will be across the whole Leaving Cert population. Individual schools and teacher be limited on the amount of each grade they can give to fit this. So not each class will be normally distributed itself.

GazzaL · 07-05-2020 10:08pm

This year's Leaving Cert students may as well leave their "results" off their CVs because they are absolutely meaningless.

Peanut Butter Jelly · 07-05-2020 10:09pm

rob316 wrote: »

Can Tony Holohan be removed from so many decisions before this country is finished please. A bankrupting reopening timeline and now the future of our young students in doubt.
The public health can't be the only consideration in this. Ridiculous decision.

Tony didn't make this decision. Joe McHugh and the DoE did. The blame lies squarely at their door

Benimar · 07-05-2020 10:09pm

rob316 wrote: »

Can Tony Holohan be removed from so many decisions before this country is finished please. A bankrupting reopening timeline and now the future of our young students in doubt.
The public health can't be the only consideration in this. Ridiculous decision.

Don’t think you can blame him for this one. It’s the politicians making this call.

07-05-2020 10:10pm

Giving everyone full marks is a better idea than this

_Kaiser_ · 07-05-2020 10:10pm

Amirani wrote: »

It wasn't the Chief Medical Officer who made this decision. You don't have a clue do you?

Indirectly he has. It's his "advice" over the last few months that have now directly resulted in policy decisions up to and including this one.

His ultra-conservative outlook coupled with a weak outgoing Government terrified of making a decision means that our response has been massively disproportionate as more about the actual impact of the virus has emerged.

History Queen · 07-05-2020 10:10pm

bluefinger wrote: »

Can't see why a teacher would give a student they are teaching a poor mark when it reflects directly on their teaching ability.

Shows how little you know. All students are not capable of good grades in spite of their teachers (and sometimes because of them before someone says it). Students are ideally helped by teachers to meet their potential. Some students meet their potential at a H1 others meet theirs at an O6. Both students may have worked equally hard with a equally dedicated teacher.

On the other side you have students who don't reach their potential for lots of reasons, teacher/their own lack of work/disadvantage of some form/illness etc

Leaving Cert to be cancelled

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