Leaving Cert to be cancelled

Beanybabog

GazzaL wrote: »

If they dislike a student, you can be sure of it.

I had a teacher who disliked me, and gave me a lot of D grades. Got an A in the leaving. I would have hated the teachers predicting my grades

Multipass

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I wonder what the majority of STUDENTS think of this, not their parents.

It’s a life lesson in the time of Corona.

Mine is distraught, and sees that incompetence and fear is running the country now - which is a lot scarier than the virus.

SEPT 23 1989

Andrew00 wrote: »

The leaving cert isn't the be all and end all

Just do a PLC and get the course ya want then

It's the end of the world according to RTE

rob316

Amirani wrote: »

It wasn't the Chief Medical Officer who made this decision. You don't have a clue do you?

He has the final say on this and many others things he shouldn't. Go look it up

Downlinz

landofthetree wrote: »

What about the students who have no teacher for a particular subject?

I remember people in my school students doing subjects on their own. In the mid 90s. Repeat students would study and sit an exam called social and scientific on their own.

Does this happen nowadays?

I would presume so, it was happening just 10 years ago with repeat students who failed a particular subject and took private lessons while working rather than attend school and they'd just appear on exam day.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think maybe it's not about the safety of the exams but that there is no way to measure if all children got more or less the same opportunity to engage as their peers the way they would if they were in school every day.

I think this is spot on.

Because schools have been closed for 9 weeks (Easter holidays not included) in the lead up to the LC students have not had the same ability to prepare as other years.

For example in some places schools and local groups organise supervised study locations for LC students in the run up to exams, these would be helpful for kids who don't have the proper environment to study at home.
This year these facilities are not available.

It's z really tough choice to make but in a world where governments have to make a lot of tough choices it's probably the least worst.

Heres Johnny

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

They won't -a class of 30 should not be using a bell curve let alone classes of 6-12 for a lot of subjects

I agree with you there. My class in leaving cert was absolutely full of 500+ pointers. I got 485 and was very much middle of the road. This was in the days of 600 max. There were 4 classes in my year. There was one class where there wouldn't have been many lads over 200 odd. The teacher of let's say maths in one class couldn't be giving out A grades whereas the other would be justified in giving out absolutely loads of them. Requires honesty.
All I can see here is the traditional points system taking a break for a year, the reduction in foreign students coming in will free up a lot of places for Irish students and points may be an irrelevance

Amirani

rob316 wrote: »

He has the final say on this and many others things he shouldn't. Go look it up

Chief Medical Officer has the final say on nothing.

TheWarChicken

They've chosen to flip a coin on their future since it's easier than dealing with the stress and effort of an exam, we all know the whining from students and parents will be deafening from the quarters that see the coin landing on the wrong side.[/QUOTE]
For sure, and that's what irks me about the whole affair, the whole thing may well end up burning to the ground when students realise that it means some of them will fail, and then we're totally fecked.

Spanish Eyes

There hasn’t been a peep from either students or parents in other countries about cancellation of THEIR final exams.

We truly are a nation of whingers, blame throwers, and litigation experts.

It is what it is, but Joe Duffy will be on fire tomorrow. For sure, from indignant parents no doubt.

bluefinger

History Queen wrote: »

Shows how little you know. All students are not capable of good grades in spite of their teachers (and sometimes because of them before someone says it). Students are ideally helped by teachers to meet their potential. Some students meet their potential at a H1 others meet theirs at an O6. Both students may have worked equally hard with a equally dedicated teacher.

On the other side you have students who don't reach their potential for lots of reasons, teacher/their own lack of work/disadvantage of some form/illness etc

Thanks for the unnecessarily hostile response. I'm genuinely curious and think it would still apply if they are going to mark people based on how the teacher helped them reach their potential. I can't see a teacher failing a large cohort because they just did not have the potential to pass in the teachers opinion.

Beanybabog

completedit wrote: »

What about private schools and pressure on teachers? Parents have paid thousands per year for these exams, how will they react to 300-400 predicted points scores?

How will the bell curve work here? Presumably the schools at the top of the league tables gets more allocated As? This seems like a nightmare. People might be happy now, they won’t be when the results come I’d wager

sterz

rob316 wrote: »

He has the final say on this and many others things he shouldn't. Go look it up

Link?

Andrew00

I never studied for the leaving cert a few years ago and I knew I'd do sh*te but I knew I'd get into university via a PLC (which you do absolutely nothing for a year)

McDermotX

No reason it can't go ahead.

All the various concerns raised over the last few weeks are in no way an obstacle for even limited creative thinking.

Duke of Url

Why couldn’t they open every primary and secondary school in the country and used all the classrooms available and pay all the teachers in all schools to be supervisors?

Social distancing wouldn’t have been an issue to sit exams.

Donald Trump

Andrew00 wrote: »

I never studied for the leaving cert a few years ago and I knew I'd do sh*te but I knew I'd get into university via a PLC (which you do absolutely nothing for a year)

Fair enough. But why would you willingly waste a year of your life doing nothing?


You could have done a bit of work and went traveling for that year and came back to go to the college. Or just went to college a year earlier, finished earlier and retired a year earlier.

Ficheall

Why don't they postpone the LC until next summer?



A tutor (not a teacher, but the student in question wasn't attending school) I know in the UK was similarly asked to assess a student, and despite the student being completely disinterested and absolutely hopeless at the subject, she gave a good recommendation so that she wouldn't be stuck trying to teach the student again next year..

Treppen

McDermotX wrote: »

No reason it can't go ahead.

All the various concerns raised over the last few weeks are in no way an obstacle for even limited creative thinking.

You underestimated the Joe Duffy effect.

I agree it probably could have gone ahead with a bit of work. Now it's all on teachers heads.

History Queen

bluefinger wrote: »

Thanks for the unnecessarily hostile response. I'm genuinely curious and think it would still apply if they are going to mark people based on how the teacher helped them reach their potential. I can't see a teacher failing a large cohort because they just did not have the potential to pass in the teachers opinion.

We will have to mark based on merit not potential (surely? Although god knows). I'm horrendously worried for my class. They are a streamed class very weak at my subject and just under half failed the mocks. Of them two I feel may not have passed the real thing but I would have expected the rest to pass based on classwork and homework not on data I can prove. Particularly since many of them decided not tolog in again after Easter and I also have a school refuser on my classlist. How do I predict his grade?

rob316

Amirani wrote: »

Chief Medical Officer has the final say on nothing.

On nothing? Are you serious? He's the loudest voice on the NPHET

Andrew00

Donald Trump wrote: »

Fair enough. But why would you willingly waste a year of your life doing nothing?


You could have done a bit of worked and went traveling for that year and came back to go to the college. Or just went to college a year earlier, finished earlier and retired a year earlier.

I done nothing during the year of PLC bar drinking down the pub with the lads, even while we were meant to be in class

But the teacher gave most of us a good mark just so it reflects good on him

History Queen

bluefinger wrote: »

Thanks for the unnecessarily hostile response. I'm genuinely curious and think it would still apply if they are going to mark people based on how the teacher helped them reach their potential. I can't see a teacher failing a large cohort because they just did not have the potential to pass in the teachers opinion.

We will have to mark based on merit not potential (surely? Although god knows). I'm horrendously worried for my class. They are a streamed class very weak at my subject and just under half failed the mocks. Of them two I feel may not have passed the real thing but I would have expected the rest to pass based on classwork and homework not on data I can prove. Particularly since many of them decided not tolog in again after Easter and I also have a school refuser on my classlist. How do I predict his grade?

retro:electro

I feel sorry for the student who feels totally dejected tonight because they have some arsehole of a teacher who has taken an inherent dislike to them for whatever reason. You can be all year acting the arse and failing left right and centre, and then pull up your socks at the eleventh hour and apply yourself and get a decent grade. It’s unfair that that type of student is now essentially being graded retrospectively when they had no idea such a scenario could ever even be a possibility.

GazzaL

Ficheall wrote: »

Why don't they postpone the LC until next summer?



A tutor (not a teacher, but the student in question wasn't attending school) I know in the UK was similarly asked to assess a student, and despite the student being completely disinterested and absolutely hopeless at the subject, she gave a good recommendation so that she wouldn't be stuck trying to teach the student again next year..

That would also punish students who want to get on with their lives, holding them back when they want to go to college, or get an apprenticeship or go to work. Plus you'd have twice the number of students doing the LC, and you can't double college capacity and apprenticeships.

Donald Trump

Ficheall wrote: »

Why don't they postpone the LC until next summer?

That would be worse.


If you are a student who doesn't get a place this year, you can repeat next year.


You would be no worse off timewise. The major difference would be that instead of competing against 100k other students (i.e. all repeating) you would only be competing against 50k (or whatever the numbers are nowadays)

Metroid diorteM

This is mental. I wonder though, was any decision going to be a disaster anyway.

As someone who got surprising results and had some teachers who thought I was worse than I ended up being I feel very sorry for these kids but would they have wanted to go ahead with the exams under these conditions anyway? LC is enough pressure as it is without worrying about every cough around you or wondering what the schedule was eventually going to be.

We still dont know enough about this virus (immunity duration, reinfection).

Couldn't they do oral exams over skype? For languages? Or do short oral exams for some subjects?

khalessi

helpful wrote: »

Seems like a pretty silly move on the part of the government. The leaving cert is a right of passage if nothing else and is a big achievement for students.
Teachers are leaving themselves open to so much abuse here. The parents knowing where to direct their anger if little Johnny doesn’t get into his first choice seems ludicrous. Also for students who wish to sit the exams telling them sometime next year maybe just won’t do? The students who wish to sit the exam should have the opportunity to do so on July 29th and be ready for cao offers for September, why should they have to delay a year of their lives. Would not like to be in 5th year now. Plus the leaving cert class of 2020 will forever have a stigma attached to them. Bad decision made by a government afraid of the social media warriors

Teachers are being left open to abuse, they had nothing to do with this decision. hung out to dry by government

freshpopcorn

What exactly do the people who were calling for it to be canceled want?
Do they just want full marks or something.

I don’t think predictive grades will go down well.

Greensoup

I’m guessing they will use the average cao points per subject in each school over last 3-4 years to guide them on your schools usual results. So for example in Biology if the leaving cert results in your school have an average of 65 points over those years well the 2020 biology class will also average out at 65 points. Then your principal/school will send the average results that were recorded on vsware for students 7 subjects and possibly Jc to the state exams commission. They will allocate individual results using these averages and the typical results over last 3 years. When 2020 biology class get results the average will be 65 like the bell curve for the subject in the last 3 years. So you’ll get a few H1s, plenty H3s, H4s etc down to H7. Pretty much the same spread as last few years. Emma o kelly said schools typical results over last 3-4 years could be used as a guide. So really teachers shouldn’t have a lot of input as the results on vsware are already there so it’s up to sec to predict grade. Feel free to call crap on this 😂