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Report: Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe COVID-19

  • 05-05-2020 10:57pm
    #1
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭


    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1


    It would be ridiculous to suggest that Vitamin D cures COVID-19. But it does appear that people who get it and have Vitamin D deficiency are much more likely to have a severe case. People who ended up in the ICU were more likely to have Vitamin D deficiency than the less severe cases, and all of the patients under 75 years of age who had to go to ICU were Vitamin D deficient
    The VDI prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI.


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Comments

  • #2
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,361 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    I was reading before all this that people being so scared of skin cancer has left most people vitamin d deficient and its leading to an increase in many other types of cancer and illnesses. Its possible to take precautions against sun damage without going completely OTT on covering up like is encouraged these days. Obviously skin cancer is bad and should be avoided but there is a balance. Supplements are not the same as sun exposure.


  • #3
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I was reading before all this that people being so scared of skin cancer has left most people vitamin d deficient and its leading to an increase in many other types of cancer and illnesses. Its possible to take precautions against sun damage without going completely OTT on covering up like is encouraged these days.


    Absolutely. I sat in 12 degrees of sunshine today with no cream on. It was 5pm and way past any chance of burning in 12 degrees


  • #4
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Not peer reviewed and how many patients did they test?


  • #5
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,361 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Absolutely. I sat in 12 degrees of sunshine today with no cream on. It was 5pm and way past any chance of burning in 12 degrees

    exactly. I do live in a hot desert climate but make sure to get outside in the morning or evening without sunscreen and don't bother putting any on at all until around this time of year when the UV index goes way up. Same for my daughter. It can't be good for kids to grow and be healthy without ever having sufficient vitamin d levels. When I first moved here I was deficient and was advised by doctor that even just 15 mins in the shade every morning is great.


  • #6
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Not peer reviewed and how many patients did they test?

    Another one here. 780 cases studied https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561#.XqWfqZvYqW0.twitter


    I know John Campbell has mixed reactions on here but he's been an advocate of Vitamin D helping since day one


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs


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  • #7
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    We're not long out of winter here, how long will it take to build a store of vitamin D?


  • #8
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    We're not long out of winter here, how long will it take to build a store of vitamin D?


    Get yourself a good Vitamin D supplement. I've been taking mine now about 5 weeks and getting as much post 3pm sun as possible


  • #9
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Absolutely. I sat in 12 degrees of sunshine today with no cream on. It was 5pm and way past any chance of burning in 12 degrees

    your body wont make Vit D from 5pm Sun, the Sun needs to be above 50 degrees so this time of the year roughly 12pm to 2pm

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #10
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,909 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Vitamin D tablets will sell well

    Hard to knw do Multi vitamins and all that work fully


  • #11
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Vitamin D tablets will sell well

    Hard to know do Multi vitamins and all that work fully


    Vitamin D foods, sun and Vitamin D supplements, in that order of importance

    A quick Google
    Foods that provide vitamin D include:
    • Fatty fish, like tuna, mackerel, and salmon.
    • Foods fortified with vitamin D, like some dairy products, orange juice, soy milk, and cereals.
    • Beef liver.
    • Cheese.
    • Egg yolks.


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  • #12
    NoviGlitzko
    Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭NoviGlitzko


    Got my bloods done a few years back and my Vit D level was at 27(?) or something, so was quite low. Started taking a high strength supplement. My doc recommended one high in D3. My levels are back to normal. Noticed soon after I started taking it that I felt less groggy and my immune system was better.

    My girlfriends dad has been taking a spoon of cod liver oil a day for the last 30 odd years after he got bad pneumonia. Hasn't had the flu since.


  • #13
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    NoviGlitzko wrote: »
    Got my bloods done a few years back and my Vit D level was at 27(?) or something, so was quite low. Started taking a high strength supplement. The levels are back to normal. Noticed soon after I started taking it that I felt less groggy and my immune system was better.

    My girlfriends dad has been taking a spoon of cod liver oil a day for the last 30 odd years after he got bad pneumonia. Hasn't had the flu since.

    Hi

    Two questions for ya:
    • Which brand of high strength supplement and what dosage?
    • Is Vitamin D in Cod Liver Oil in good amounts?


  • #14
    NoviGlitzko
    Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭NoviGlitzko


    This is what I'm taking ATM:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-Maximum-Strength-Supplement-Softgels/dp/B072L235Z5/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2AQSFZTLAM1ZU&dchild=1&keywords=high+strength+vitamin+d&qid=1588719370&sprefix=high+strength+vitamin%2Caps%2C130&sr=8-5

    re cod liver oil, according to my doctor it does indeed. I'd have also have fatty fish for dinner at least once a week. Other vitamins are needed to unlock the benefits of Vitamin D, such as a balance of Vitamin C.


  • #15
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,139 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    I've been saying this for weeks.

    This is why it's so important that the elderly get out in the sun (in a safe way).

    It's also an argument against the police breaking up people out sunbathing in parks.

    It also shows the mistake of the Italian and Spanish lock downs which forced people to stay indoors (especially since they are countries in which very few people have gardens).


  • #16
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    So fat people who have bad diets are at a greater risk who'd have thunk it (subject to peer review)?


  • #17
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Probably just an unhealthy user bias. The patients are old/have health problems that probably mean they produce less vitamin d, are outdoors less etc..Though I believe there is a link between immunity and vitamin d levels so there might be something there


  • #18
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,938 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Absorbtion is the issue. There are 2 carrier oils used. One might not suit.
    Found that with my wife.

    We take 10000 iu during winter.


  • #19
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,543 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Get yourself a good Vitamin D supplement. I've been taking mine now about 5 weeks and getting as much post 3pm sun as possible

    What's the best and strongest?
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #20
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    What's the best and strongest?

    These are the ones I ordered a few weeks back, it was a brand I knew and at a good price https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/vitabiotics-ultra-vitamin-d-1000-iu-optimum-level-96-tablets-60017810


    The higher strength ones were sold out at the time

    These were linked in this thread and if I order again it'll be probably be these. They're 4 times stronger than my current ones https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-Maximum-Strength-Supplement-Softgels/dp/B072L235Z5/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2AQSFZTLAM1ZU&dchild=1&keywords=high+strength+vitamin+d&qid=1588719370&sprefix=high+strength+vitamin,aps,130&sr=8-5


  • #21
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Get yourself a good Vitamin D supplement. I've been taking mine now about 5 weeks and getting as much post 3pm sun as possible

    Will that work quickly though?

    If a blood test shows very low vitamin D levels, doctors give a crazy amount to get them to normal levels, remember reading they give you 400,000 IU vitamin D weekly for a few months and then drop it down to 800 IU a day after that period.

    Supplements you buy online are like max 10,0000 IU, be eating them like skittles to get that level.

    I take Vit D supplement everyday as well btw, never had a blood test though


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  • #22
    MD1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Another one here. 780 cases studied https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561#.XqWfqZvYqW0.twitter


    I know John Campbell has mixed reactions on here but he's been an advocate of Vitamin D helping since day one


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs

    He has mixed reaction on here:confused:

    very strange. He has probably helped saved lives with his information


  • #23
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    Will that work quickly though?

    If a blood test shows very low vitamin D levels, doctors give a crazy amount to get them to normal levels, remember reading they give you 400,000 IU vitamin D weekly for a few months


    Are these the same strength? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-Maximum-Strength-Supplement-Softgels/dp/B072L235Z5/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2AQSFZTLAM1ZU&dchild=1&keywords=high+strength+vitamin+d&qid=1588719370&sprefix=high+strength+vitamin,aps,130&sr=8-5


  • #24
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Are these the same strength? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-Maximum-Strength-Supplement-Softgels/dp/B072L235Z5/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2AQSFZTLAM1ZU&dchild=1&keywords=high+strength+vitamin+d&qid=1588719370&sprefix=high+strength+vitamin,aps,130&sr=8-5

    No they are only 4,000 IU

    In medical settings if your low in Vit D you can get 300,000 - 400,000 IU injections

    https://vitamindwiki.com/Large+single+dose+of+more+than+300%2C000+IU+of+vitamin+D+works+well+for+3+months+%E2%80%93+Review+Nov+2013


  • #25
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Anyone supplementing with vitamin D should also take magnesium. Magnesium helps with vitamin D absorption.


  • #26
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Anyone supplementing with vitamin D should also take magnesium. Magnesium helps with vitamin D absorption.

    Didn't know that

    Alot of people say K2 as well and take after a good meal


  • #27
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,318 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    MD1990 wrote: »
    He has mixed reaction on here:confused:

    very strange. He has probably helped saved lives with his information
    I think it is probably more due to the fact he is a Dr in a very different and not really related area to the things he sometimes talks about.....
    I would personally take what he says with a pinch of salt (but not too much as it can be bad for you)

    What exactly is he a doctor in? Something related to nursing?

    But he is 100% not an MD


  • #28
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Just rip off yer tops when it is sunny outside. It should be made mandatory for all the pensioners to rip off their tops if it is sunny on their walks.


  • #29
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Typical. I had a blood analysis a two months ago (nothing to do with C19) and was found to have virtually no Vit D.

    Had to start taking 4000iu of Vit D everyday. Now of course it is linked with better C19 survival rates so now I can't get any Vit D in the shops. Had to order online and restricted to one pack per person.


  • #30
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    Didn't know that

    Alot of people say K2 as well and take after a good meal

    I'm afraid to take vitamin k because vitamin k helps the blood to clot (ok if you cut yourself with a knife)... But clotting in the blood can happen with this Covid-19.


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  • #31
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    gmisk wrote: »
    I think it is probably more due to the fact he is a Dr in a very different and not really related area to the things he sometimes talks about.....
    I would personally take what he says with a pinch of salt (but not too much as it can be bad for you)

    What exactly is he a doctor in? Something related to nursing?

    But he is 100% not an MD
    He has a Ph.D. in some form of nursing.


  • #32
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,862 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He has a Ph.D. in some form of nursing.

    I hear he also has a Phd in spoofing


  • #33
    pearcider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭pearcider


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Typical. I had a blood analysis a two months ago (nothing to do with C19) and was found to have virtually no Vit D.

    Had to start taking 4000iu of Vit D everyday. Now of course it is linked with better C19 survival rates so now I can't get any Vit D in the shops. Had to order online and restricted to one pack per person.

    Fatty fish like salmon has loads of it. Cod liver oil is good too. And of course sunshine.


  • #34
    Not in Kansas
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭Not in Kansas


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Typical. I had a blood analysis a two months ago (nothing to do with C19) and was found to have virtually no Vit D.

    Had to start taking 4000iu of Vit D everyday. Now of course it is linked with better C19 survival rates so now I can't get any Vit D in the shops. Had to order online and restricted to one pack per person.

    I ordered 6 packs of high strength from Boots the other day no problem. 3 for the price of 2 also. We have been taking them already for weeks but I'm thinking ahead to the winter with this purchase.

    3 packs are for our family of 4 and the other packs are for our elderly parents.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ive been taking solgar 4000iu for the last few months and always do.
    I usually take it in a tablespoon of cod liver oil.
    I have all the usual stuff too so hopefully i'll be ok if I got it.

    I watched a 90min lecture on the stuff last week (feck all else doing at the time).
    and toxicity has only even been recorded where the factoy have incorrectly messed up the dosage and people were taking 10's of 1000's of IU's or hundreds of micrograms.

    It's stored in the liver unlike say Vit c which you can pee out as it's water soluble.
    I heard the professor saying that if you expose your face arms and legs in the sun, until they "blush", you're getting about 20,000IU's or thereabouts.
    The older you are the less you produce so you should go mad, if you can in the sun and get as much as you can.
    Vit D deficiency has links to depression also, so the elderly must really be given credit to stay sane as well as healthy.


  • #36
    BrentMused
    Registered Users Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭BrentMused


    If anyone is looking for Vitamin D tablets, these are great from Bulk Powders:

    https://www.bulkpowders.ie/vitamin-d3-tablets-5000iu.html

    I doubt you'll find anything stronger, it's relatively cheap and there's plenty of stock available.

    I've used the site numerous times for supplements and they've always been spot on. Only last week I placed a large order and received it in 5 days.


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  • #37
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,038 ✭✭✭circadian


    Wondering if suncream reduces vitamin D production. Due to an unfortunate allergic reaction a few years back I now suffer from severe PMLE and have to cover up every day.


  • #38
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    circadian wrote: »
    Wondering if suncream reduces vitamin D production. Due to an unfortunate allergic reaction a few years back I now suffer from severe PMLE and have to cover up every day.


    It does


  • #39
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    silverharp wrote: »
    your body wont make Vit D from 5pm Sun, the Sun needs to be above 50 degrees so this time of the year roughly 12pm to 2pm


    50 Degrees Fahrenheit? That's 10 degrees Celsius and I was sitting in 12 degrees Celsius


  • #40
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    50 Degrees Fahrenheit? That's 10 degrees Celsius and I was sitting in 12 degrees Celsius

    angle , if your shadow is longer than you, then your body doesn't make Vit D , the relevant wavelengths get absorbed by the atmosphere. In Ireland that means after about the 25th April and 12pm-2pm at the moment

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #41
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You need to apply a MASSSIVE correlation bias problem here.

    The people that are dying are mostly old. Old people in general are more likely to have low Vit D levels anyway.

    Doesn't mean there isn't a connection; just means there isn't guaranteed to be one.


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  • #42
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    silverharp wrote: »
    angle , if your shadow is longer than you, then your body doesn't make Vit D , the relevant wavelengths get absorbed by the atmosphere. In Ireland that means after about the 25th April and 12pm-2pm at the moment


    Interesting. I'll get out earlier in it tomorrow

    Have you any link that says similar? I'd like to read it


  • #43
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Interesting. I'll get out earlier in it tomorrow

    Have you any link that says similar? I'd like to read it

    I have an app on my phone, it amuses me that sometime in Sep it will say that's it til next April :pac::(

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #44
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,361 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    silverharp wrote: »
    angle , if your shadow is longer than you, then your body doesn't make Vit D , the relevant wavelengths get absorbed by the atmosphere. In Ireland that means after about the 25th April and 12pm-2pm at the moment

    That's interesting, I never heard of that.


  • #45
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    silverharp wrote: »
    I have an app on my phone, it amuses me that sometime in Sep it will say that's it til next April :pac::(

    No I meant a link that says similar to what you said below. That Vitamin D intake from sunshine is dependent of the angle of the sun and time of day you sit in it
    angle , if your shadow is longer than you, then your body doesn't make Vit D , the relevant wavelengths get absorbed by the atmosphere


  • #46
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    No I meant a link that says similar to what you said below. That Vitamin D intake from sunshine is dependent of the angle of the sun and time of day you sit in it

    this seems a reasonable intro, its easy enough to find stuff on the net

    https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/1313-vitamin-d-and-uv
    What role does the Sun play in vitamin D production?
    Vitamin D is made when UV (more precisely, UVB rays) react with a compound (7-dehydrocholesterol) in the skin. The best rays for UV synthesis have wavelengths between 270–300 nm. These wavelengths are present when the UV index is greater than 3. The angle of the Sun above the horizon (at sea level) also affects the production of vitamin D because the atmosphere is thicker at lower angles and absorbs more UV. At angles greater than 45° above the horizon (at sea level), vitamin D production will be occurring, although some recent research suggests that vitamin D production may occur at angles as low as 30°. At higher altitudes, there is less (thinner) atmosphere to absorb UV from the Sun.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #47
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    silverharp wrote: »
    this seems a reasonable intro, its easy enough to find stuff on the net

    https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/1313-vitamin-d-and-uv


    Interesting. I always just presumed sun on my face at any time of the day = a decent amount of Vitamin D


  • #48
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Interesting. I always just presumed sun on my face at any time of the day = a decent amount of Vitamin D

    There has been other work but not Vit D related just general UV, it showed that even winter sun has health benefits, so still worth doing

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #49
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    I'm inclined to wait until the WHO says that there's no evidence for it before lending credence to this piece of research.


  • #50
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    I'm inclined to wait until the WHO says that there's no evidence for it before lending credence to this piece of research.


    XSYY.gif


  • #51
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,038 ✭✭✭circadian


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    It does

    You gonna follow that authoritive answer up with some information or do I just take your word for it?


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