Report: Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe COVID-19

Away With The Fairies

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Does anyone use similar to this Desk Lamp when late October comes around in Ireland? https://www.amazon.com/Beurer-Daylight-BrightLight-Simulation-TL30/dp/B01HOBZ066/ref=sr_1_30?dchild=1&keywords=vitamin+d+lamp&qid=1603741197&sr=8-30

A few lamps on Amazon mention Vitamin D. I'm sure the sellers couldn't say this on the world's biggest retail website without having proof of some sort


Side question:

With the horrible early dark nights now with us, has anyone upped their Vitamin D dosage?

I'm currently at 4,000 IUs a day (two x 2,000 IUs vitamin tabs, with one taken in the morning and one in the evening), but I'm thinking of going upto 5,000 IUs now that the clocks have changed and the case numbers are crazy high

Where are you at on dosage?

I might have a video or phone call with my GP before going to 5,000 IUs, but my initial findings are that no harm can be done to you in these dosages upto 5,000 IUs

It's Vitamin C and Calcium supplements you need to be very careful of not over-doing it when it comes to dosage

Why vitamin c? You just pee vitamin c back out again, the body doesn't store vitamin c.

I'm on 20,000 iu vitamin d per day but I have a deficiency and it's under doctor's orders.

To answer your question, it's so hard to say without actually knowing your blood levels. Most Irish people are deficient and I was maintaining a deficiency with the dose I was taking earlier in the year. I was first taking 2000iu per day for the first month, thinking that would correct any deficiency I had and then I went down to taking 1000iu per day and thought I would be grand. I was so wrong on that one and got a surprise when I got my levels checked a few weeks ago. Huge difference to what I was taking and 20,000iu.

If you don't think you're taking enough, take some more.

ShineOn7

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Why vitamin c? You just pee vitamin c back out again, the body doesn't store vitamin c.

There's many medical reports out there saying too much Vitamin C and/or Zinc and Calcium supplements leads to kidney stones

It's not as straightforward as your body peeing out excess

Give it a Google

Away With The Fairies

ShineOn7 wrote: »

There's many medical reports out there saying too much Vitamin C and/or Zinc and Calcium supplements leads to kidney stones

It's not as straightforward as your body peeing out excess

Give it a Google

I didn't know that. All good with me, so far.

ShineOn7

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I didn't know that. All good with me, so far.

Calcification of kidney stones can build up over months and months, it's not something will happen in a week or two of too much Vitamin C



Have a chat with your GP regarding Vitamin C dosage as we're veering towards medical advice which is off Charter and also off the topic of Vitamin D

saabsaab

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Hi

Two questions for ya:

• Which brand of high strength supplement and what dosage?
• Is Vitamin D in Cod Liver Oil in good amounts?

You don't want or need to take too much Vit D either as it can damage your liver.

ShineOn7

saabsaab wrote: »

You don't want or need to take too much Vit D either as it can damage your liver.

It's the contrary in fact

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946281/

Liver disease has also been strongly linked to vitamin D deficiency

I've looked high and low online, there's nothing saying Vitamin D in high dosages of upto 5000 IUs daily does any damage

And Google usually screams this out at you if even the evidence in a study is tiny

ShineOn7

funnydoggy wrote: »

https://www.bulk.com/ie/vitamin-d3-tablets-5000iu.html


Cheap, quick delivery.

That's an excellent price

How many days usually for a delivery to Ireland? Anything upto 3 days would be grand

moonage

ShineOn7 wrote: »

With the horrible early dark nights now with us, has anyone upped their Vitamin D dosage?

I'm currently at 4,000 IUs a day (two x 2,000 IUs vitamin tabs, with one taken in the morning and one in the evening), but I'm thinking of going upto 5,000 IUs now that the clocks have changed and the case numbers are crazy high

Where are you at on dosage?

I might have a video or phone call with my GP before going to 5,000 IUs, but my initial findings are that no harm can be done to you in these dosages upto 5,000 IUs

It's Vitamin C and Calcium supplements you need to be very careful of not over-doing it when it comes to dosage

At the higher Vitamin D levels it's a good idea to take Vitamin K2 as well.

Vit K2 makes sure that calcium—which Vit D increases the absorption of—goes to the right places and doesn't end up in the blood vessels or cause kidney stones.

Also, you're probably better off taking all your Vitamin D in one dose early in the day with a meal. Taking some in the evening might affect circadian rhythms and hinder sleep.

ILoveYourVibes

ShineOn7 wrote: »

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1


It would be ridiculous to suggest that Vitamin D cures COVID-19. But it does appear that people who get it and have Vitamin D deficiency are much more likely to have a severe case. People who ended up in the ICU were more likely to have Vitamin D deficiency than the less severe cases, and all of the patients under 75 years of age who had to go to ICU were Vitamin D deficient

But vit d deficiency would indicate general poor health.

And Vit d and the immune system in general has long been linked.

Remember you get vit d from breakfast cereals ...all the animals out in the sun etc have it in their bodies ..you get it from example eating red meat

Aging causes a decrease in calcium absorbing and a drop in vit d. Its not to do with diet etc. Its just aging. Your body has trouble absorbing it.

So they try giving older people higher doses ..it doesn't always mean they can absorb it though.

I take it anyway. Vit D that is.

ILoveYourVibes

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's the contrary in fact

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946281/




I've looked high and low online, there's nothing saying Vitamin D in high dosages of upto 5000 IUs daily does any damage

And Google usually screams this out at you if even the evidence in a study is tiny

Its fat soluble. Its not water soluble ..yes high dosages can damage your body.

2smiggy

what would be too much , in your opinion , during the winter months ?

Cluedo Monopoly

2smiggy wrote: »

what would be too much , in your opinion , during the winter months ?

2 tonnes

cnocbui

2smiggy wrote: »

what would be too much , in your opinion , during the winter months ?

More than 15,000u. I would think that 5,000-6,000 should be enough to bolster your immune system adequately.

saabsaab

Taken from a website


'
A daily intake ranging from 40,000–100,000 IU (1000–2500 micrograms), for one to several months, has been shown to cause toxicity in humans (14Trusted Source, 18Trusted Source, 19Trusted Source, 20Trusted Source, 21Trusted Source).
This is 10-25 times the recommended upper limit, in repeated doses. Individuals with vitamin D toxicity usually have blood levels above 150 ng/ml (375 nmol/L).
Several cases have also been caused by errors in manufacturing, when the supplements had 100-4000 times higher amounts of vitamin D than stated on the package (18Trusted Source, 19Trusted Source, 22Trusted Source).
The blood levels in these cases of toxicity ranged from 257–620 ng/ml, or 644–1549 nmol/L.
Vitamin D toxicity is usually reversible, but severe cases may eventually cause kidney failure and calcification of the arteries'


Best not to overdo it..

Widdensushi

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Why vitamin c? You just pee vitamin c back out again, the body doesn't store vitamin c.

I'm on 20,000 iu vitamin d per day but I have a deficiency and it's under doctor's orders.

To answer your question, it's so hard to say without actually knowing your blood levels. Most Irish people are deficient and I was maintaining a deficiency with the dose I was taking earlier in the year. I was first taking 2000iu per day for the first month, thinking that would correct any deficiency I had and then I went down to taking 1000iu per day and thought I would be grand. I was so wrong on that one and got a surprise when I got my levels checked a few weeks ago. Huge difference to what I was taking and 20,000iu.

If you don't think you're taking enough, take some more.

Could you say what service you used to get the test, also the result that led to such a high supplement level, if personal no need, thanks

ShineOn7

saabsaab wrote: »

Taken from a website


Best not to overdo it..

Yes, you're right

I'm sticking with 2,000 IUs a day instead of 4,000/5000 and I'm going to up my water drinking intake to flush anything excessive out

The 2000 IUs one I ordered yesterday comes with K2, so that will help keep the intake of it safer too

ILoveYourVibes

2smiggy wrote: »

what would be too much , in your opinion , during the winter months ?

Depends on your age.

Also the food we eat ..if its irish beef etc ..it has less vit D as the cows absorb less from the sun here ..plus the grass has less sun here so unless a farmer supplements the cows don't get as much.

Spanish beef and dairy are much higher in Vit D for example. Its why people in Northern Europe tend to be deficient its not just US lacking sunlight ..all the animals and foods we are eating get less sun too ..all the fruits veg etc get less sun.

I think in the states they started exposing mushrooms in supermarkets to violet lamps to up their vit D. Not sure about here.

Its kind of not known if the low over the counter dosage does anything I would say anything to actually make a change for someone truly deficient would be prescription strength.

I always thought 400 to 800 UI was enough for maintenance during winter. Maybe just 400 if you have a diet high in it.

But i am not a doctor.

Too much can give make your heart arrhythmic and make you susceptible to strokes though .

ILoveYourVibes

Widdensushi wrote: »

Could you say what service you used to get the test, also the result that led to such a high supplement level, if personal no need, thanks

Your GP can send you for bloods i have had it done. He/she just marks what bloods he wants done.

You can get the kitchen sink while you are there may aswell see how everything else is.

is_that_so

New small study on Vitamin D deficiency and COVID, more prevalent in men.

Over 80 percent of 200 COVID-19 patients in a hospital in Spain have vitamin D deficiency

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201027092216.htm

Thierry12

is_that_so wrote: »

New small study on Vitamin D deficiency and COVID, more prevalent in men.




https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201027092216.htm

If your sick do you become deficient in Vit D quickly?

As in could you have abundant levels of Vit D a few weeks before you got sick and once you get sick it drops like a rock?

Does the human body clear Vit D fast?

Away With The Fairies

Widdensushi wrote: »

Could you say what service you used to get the test, also the result that led to such a high supplement level, if personal no need, thanks

Only seeing this now, so sorry for the delay in getting back. I used cerascreen first, a home test they send you in the post. The results showed a deficiency, so I got it checked through my doctor. They normally wouldn't test for vitamin d deficiency unless there was something wrong with me. I feel fine with the deficiency, so I wouldn't normally go to the doctor if it wasn't for the first home test.

ShineOn7

I found a Vitamin D with K2 combination on an Irish site called HP Nutrition and it arrived today

But, in hindsight, I'm thinking just 7 euros for 90 days supply of 2000 IUs with K2 added sounds a bit too true to be true? Because, although Vitamin D is very cheap to produce, I'm not sure K2 is

I'm probably going to be taking a chalk placebo for the next 3 months

ShineOn7

is_that_so wrote: »

New small study on Vitamin D deficiency and COVID, more prevalent in men.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201027092216.htm

Although I'm a big believer in the benefits of Vitamin D, I think the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" comes to mind here

The main reason for this is we lose natural Vitamin D more and more as we age as well as the ability to absorb it

For all we know 70% of the men in this survey could've been over the age of 60

saabsaab

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Although I'm a big believer in the benefits of Vitamin D, I think the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" comes to mind here

The main reason for this is we lose natural Vitamin D more and more as we age as well as the ability to absorb it

For all we know 70% of the men in this survey could've been over the age of 60

True enough but might be no harm to ensure your levels are up. My grandmother used to swear by fish oil for the winter months to prevent/ease cold and flu.

Drumpot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxtddpoPMKo

Been following John since January and he’s been ahead of the curve regularly. This is his most recent video on VIT D.

This virus has been around nearly a year at this stage and there’s no extensive research into how relevant VIT D is in our fight. It’s ridiculous at this stage, seems like the cheapest and easiest way of potentially lowering bad cases and deaths of the virus. Countries are shutting down economy’s and yet they don’t think it’s worth even telling everybody to make sure they are VIT D sufficient (even just to take this variable out of the equation).

I’ve been taking it since the start of Feb , I’m so surprised it’s not at least been debunked or explored comprehensively at this stage.

topper75

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Although I'm a big believer in the benefits of Vitamin D, I think the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" comes to mind here

Always a good phrase to have in mind in any analysis.

But is causation ever found beyond correlation? I would say it always has to be your starting point at least.

ShineOn7

A D3 with K2 option at a great price https://ostrovit.com/en/products/ostrovit-vitamin-d3-k2-90-tabs-16704.html

cnocbui

These days I buy all my supplements like B vitamins as pure powders off ebay and use a cheap chinese 1/00th gram readout micro scales to work out dosage vs a micro scoop and then just use x scoops stirred into fruit juice.

For a D3 + K2 powder like this, it would work out 48% cheaper in terms of D3 content.

Not knocking those tabs, just pointing out the idea of the rolling your own option.

wadacrack

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-scotland-vulnerable-will-receive-vitamin-d-supplements-zc8stdpkh?fbclid=IwAR1yMjMlnTVd9wMmKfZLvsIWyxY5NSWMkoVDBbEW-gRYsSW9i25btvhJ45Y

ShineOn7

wadacrack wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-scotland-vulnerable-will-receive-vitamin-d-supplements-zc8stdpkh?fbclid=IwAR1yMjMlnTVd9wMmKfZLvsIWyxY5NSWMkoVDBbEW-gRYsSW9i25btvhJ45Y

The most vulnerable Scots are to be given free vitamin D supplements to help to boost their immune system.

People who have been shielding are to be sent a four-month supply to compensate for a lack of natural sunlight.

Amazing work by Scotland

Their leader seems to take the bull by the horns since this started

Thierry12

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Amazing work by Scotland

Their leader seems to take the bull by the horns since this started

They should just put it in all bread, milk, cereals sold

ShineOn7

Thierry12 wrote: »

They should just put it in all bread, milk, cereals sold

There's very little to fúck all Vitamin D in all of those things you said

There's little of anything good in 90% of cereals, bread is one of the worst things you can put in your body and milk doesn't agree with everyone

It's why there's supplements

Thierry12

ShineOn7 wrote: »

There's very little to fúck all Vitamin D in all of those things you said

There's little of anything good in 90% of cereals, bread is one of the worst things you can put in your body and milk doesn't agree with everyone

It's why there's supplements

Fortified my man

They can add it

You don't need supplements

Get me now?

mvl

and ... found this in guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/add-vitamin-d-bread-milk-help-fight-covid-urge-scientists-deficiency-supplements
quote
[A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: “Companies are free to fortify food products with Vitamin D and already do so for a number of foods, including many breakfast cereals. Public Health England advises people to take a Vitamin D supplement during the autumn and winter and this is particularly important this year as many people may have spent more time indoors due to COVID-19.”]

but "companies are free to fortify" reads a bit off to me ... how would they monitor the quality of the product ...

ShineOn7

There's no even debating how bad the majority of cereals are for us. You're just loading yourself with sugar and E numbers with most of them

For me in order of preference it's usually Oats/Porridge, muesli and maybe Weetabix (I haven't Google'd the pros and cons of the latter, but I always feel like they deliver in setting you up for the day)

The rest are just very well marketed shíte

ShineOn7

The great John Campbell with his latest findings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H2c0Zm6PFw

ShineOn7

Black Friday

Any sun lamp deals on Amazon or vitamin deals elsewhere jumping out at you as particularly great value?

CalamariFritti

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The great John Campbell with his latest findings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H2c0Zm6PFw

And thats why this whole shambles is so outrageous. Most basic stuff is being ignored. To name just a few things.

a) existing immunity to this 'novel' virus in large swaths of the population - we call them asymptomatic

b) the inability - or at this stage we should call it unwillingness - to quantify the above while it skews all our numbers to a point where there are little more than lotto numbers. All numbers like CFR & IFR and incidence are rubbish because of this yet we cling on to them and all we do - half heartedly - are a few zero prevalence studies which come out at very low percentages to a degree where its blindingly obvious that they cannot be a yardstick for immunity in the population.

c) from day one it was said that virtually without exception all severe covid cases and covid deaths have one thing in common - severe vitamin D deficiency. And yet here we are, 9 months later, a tiny thread nothing in the news. All vaccine and many voices saying that even them wont change restrictions much.

So what is an ordinary citizen supposed to make of this? Do I have point or am I halfway down the CT rabbit hole? I no longer know tbh.

ShineOn7

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So what is an ordinary citizen supposed to make of this? Do I have point or am I halfway down the CT rabbit hole? I no longer know tbh.

Nothing whatsoever conspiratorial about this

You can take your 2000 IUs of Vitamin D a day, be under 50 and have ran many marathons in your life and this thing can still kill you

existing immunity to this 'novel' virus in large swaths of the population - we call them asymptomatic

The latest estimate is at 18% and it's still not known if they have immunity after in decent levels

from day one it was said that virtually without exception all severe covid cases and covid deaths have one thing in common - severe vitamin D deficiency.

That's because the vast majority who have passed away to this are over 70 and over 70s have very low Vitamin D levels. As you get older your body produces less and less of it. Correlation does not imply causation

We take Vitamin D because it might help. That's all

It's not a silver bullet in this

amandstu

ShineOn7 wrote: »

You can take your 2000 IUs of Vitamin D a day, be under 50 and have ran many marathons in your life and this thing can still kill you


That's because the vast majority who have passed away to this are over 70 and over 70s have very low Vitamin D levels. As you get older your body produces less and less of it. Correlation does not imply causation

We take Vitamin D because it might help. That's all

It's not a silver bullet in this

Is there anything in the vulnerability of dark skinned populations (living in low light regions that they are seemingly not genetically adapted to) to the virus that would lend extra weight to the theory of a link between low VitD levels and extra vulnerability to the virus?

Could there be causation to a degree and not just correlation?

Have there been any studies?

Any points that might argue against?

CalamariFritti

Yes thanks for replying but I'm also not fully convinced Shine.

It was clearly said that without exception all victims have severe deficiency not just the elderly. From there its simple reverse logic - that may be somehow flawed although I'm struggling to see how - which means if you don't have a vitamin D deficiency you're not going to get severe covid and/or die.

But even if it was 'just' the elderly wouldnt that more or less cover the vast vast majority of covid victims anyway? The group we're most concerned with? So why dont we just pump the elderly full of vitamin D? Its cheap and easily available in large quantities.

ShineOn7

amandstu wrote: »

Is there anything in the vulnerability of dark skinned populations (living in low light regions that they are seemingly not genetically adapted to) to the virus that would lend extra weight to the theory of a link between low VitD levels and extra vulnerability to the virus?

Yes, there's been a good few studies showing the BAME community (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) have been hit especially hard by this

CalamariFritti

I mean we do all sorts gyrations, debating safe distances, debatable mask usage, down to micromanagement stuff when this seems a very clear and obvious avenue to explore at least? Dr. Campbell says very little has been done in that direction. Aren't we overlooking something here?

scouserstation

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yes thanks for replying but I'm also not fully convinced Shine.

It was clearly said that without exception all victims have severe deficiency not just the elderly. From there its simple reverse logic - that may be somehow flawed although I'm struggling to see how - which means if you don't have a vitamin D deficiency you're not going to get severe covid and/or die.

But even if it was 'just' the elderly wouldnt that more or less cover the vast vast majority of covid victims anyway? The group we're most concerned with? So why dont we just pump the elderly full of vitamin D? Its cheap and easily available in large quantities.

Not just elderly but majority of Irish population is likely deficient at this stage, we just don't get adequate amounts of sunshine here even during summer months it can be difficult to get enough synthesis, added to that a lot of people that usually go on a sun holiday didn't get that chance this year so I think prudent advice would be for everybody to supplement their vitamin d levels, government and NPHET really should be pushing this, and the current recommended levels of daily amounts are just too low, vitamin D council are now recommending between 5-10,000 IUs per day

CalamariFritti

scouserstation wrote: »

Not just elderly but majority of Irish population is likely deficient at this stage, we just don't get adequate amounts of sunshine here even during summer months it can be difficult to get enough synthesis, added to that a lot of people that usually go on a sun holiday didn't get that chance this year so I think prudent advice would be for everybody to supplement their vitamin d levels, government and NPHET really should be pushing this, and the current recommended levels of daily amounts are just too low, vitamin D council are now recommending between 5-10,000 IUs per day

Thats the thing I cant figure out. Not going to say silver bullet but by my above logic it seems to have the potential for it.

Now I know things are rarely as straightforward in practice as they seem in theory but I'd like to know why we pump billions into vaccine developments and hardly anyone is talking about this? Not saying vaccine is obsolete but it seems much cheaper and already available avenue to explore.

According to an earlier program from Dr. Campbell it shows some dramatic effect on people who already have severe covid. Not all but a lot of them. He presented a practical clinical study from the University clinic Cordoba I think that showed dramatic differences in the outcomes of covid patients supplied with vitamin D versus a control group.

scouserstation

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats the thing I cant figure out. Not going to say silver bullet but by my above logic it seems to have the potential for it.

Now I know things are rarely as straightforward in practice as they seem in theory but I'd like to know why we pump billions into vaccine developments and hardly anyone is talking about this? Not saying vaccine is obsolete but it seems much cheaper and already available avenue to explore.

According to an earlier program from Dr. Campbell it shows some dramatic effect on people who already have severe covid. Not all but a lot of them. He presented a practical clinical study from the University clinic Cordoba I think that showed dramatic differences in the outcomes of covid patients supplied with vitamin D versus a control group.

I think it was a massive wasted opportunity not having a widespread supplementation programme not just in this country but other European countries aswell, while vitamin D is not a silver bullet by any means I think it would make an excellent alternative to the vaccine until it becomes widely available, providing some form of protection at least,
You can see in Nordic countries where they implement a Vitamin D programme every winter there are now lower numbers of covid 19 cases compared to other EU countries and I believe it was no accident that the virus seemed to lose its aggressiveness during the summer months, surely serum vitamin d levels played a role in this

rubadub

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Black Friday

Any sun lamp deals on Amazon or vitamin deals elsewhere jumping out at you as particularly great value?

Mine was not on offer but I got 2x36W philips narrowband UVB bulbs and an electronic ballast & reflector system to fix them to.

This is used for treatment of skin conditions, eye protection mustbe worn and you could get severe sunburn in under a minute. I see in reviews for these lights that people do use them for vitamin D production.

Buying mine separately was far cheaper than buying a unit from a "medical company", even though its the exact same bulbs. If you want any more details on it let me know. Might have been about €220-235 for the lot

topper75

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Nothing whatsoever conspiratorial about this

You can take your 2000 IUs of Vitamin D a day, be under 50 and have ran many marathons in your life and this thing can still kill you

...

That's because the vast majority who have passed away to this are over 70 and over 70s have very low Vitamin D levels. As you get older your body produces less and less of it. Correlation does not imply causation

...

This is a rather odd post. Firstly, I don't know of any cases of people fitting this profile you have outlined dying from the virus. Even if you were able to back up the assertion with any such cases, they would have to be viewed as utterly insignificant statistically against a background of 1.44 million deaths globally. People under 50 with high Vit D levels and the aerobic capacity to run a marathon need not fear this virus as a killer any more than they would fear an asteroid falling on them.

Our bodies don't make Vit D. We need sunlight to make it whatever age you are at.

ShineOn7

topper75 wrote: »

People under 50 with high Vit D levels and the aerobic capacity to run a marathon need not fear this virus as a killer any more than they would fear an asteroid falling on them.

Nah I just can't be arsed wasting internet energy on anything like this anymore

"same odds as an asteroid falling on them"


For fúcks sake

topper75

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Nah I just can't be arsed wasting internet energy on anything like this anymore

"same odds as an asteroid falling on them"


For fúcks sake

You made the claim, I ask you to back it up with a real life case. Instead you go with FFS.

Yeah the problem here must be with others on the internet. Not you fearmongering.