Relaxation of restrictions Part II

What Username Guidelines · 05-05-2020 02:13PM

seamus wrote: »

Should we?

What is the effectiveness of mask + distancing? Is it statistically a step up from distancing alone?

What kind of mask is required?

Do these statistics hold up in the real world?

In the same way that condoms are 98% effective in the lab, and 82% effective in the real world, what is the actual effectiveness of mask-wearing?

I'm not asking you these questions, btw. I'm illustrating that the question of using masks is not that simple when you expand it beyond teh use of medical-grade PPE in healthcare settings.

Some good info on simple cloth masks here and the req'd uptake for effectiveness https://masks4all.co/

easypazz · 05-05-2020 02:13PM

is_that_so wrote: »

As a stopgap payment it makes sense and it is far easier and quicker to set up and manage if everyone in the audience gets it. It's also taxable income or it will be.

I don't disagree it was rolled out effectively, but it can't be sustained.

When its cut, and banks stop rolling over mortgages, a lot of people will be in dire difficulty.

05-05-2020 02:14PM

easypazz wrote: »

We also share a land border with the country with the most deaths in Europe. 500000 of our citizens live in Northern Ireland.

Are there 1 million Irish passport holders in mainland UK (remember they all got them for Brexit)

Might we see an influx of Irish passport holders from the UK due to us having eased restrictions before them.

No, I think not. What influx do you think there might be? An influx of people on holiday? Or to relocate? There is nowhere to stay.

Restrictions are no tighter in the UK than Ireland, and are unlikely to be materially so as they are unwound on each country.

In any case, it looks increasingly, from the position that the French have taken, like the EU (plus UK) is going to harden its border, but allow internal EU travel

na1 · 05-05-2020 02:14PM

road_high wrote: »

The fact it covered part timers fully and not a pro rata to to match their p/t earnings was/is lunacy. A license to burn money

I know the person who worked only 2-3 weeks on a minimal wage, and now getting 350 pw.
another person who left job voluntary and still getting 350pw (job was less than 350pw)

Loozer · 05-05-2020 02:14PM

The roadmap buys time to see what's happening elsewhere

It's a no brainer to slow play it and see what happens in other countries

Can speed it up if circumstances dictate, but if the plan was fastracked it's very hard to slow it down if things go pearshaped

is_that_so · 05-05-2020 02:15PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats precisely whats occuring now. Multiple associations of various business sectors are getting touch with the government and telling them - hey, we can do social distancing in May, June. we dont need to wait until July or August and borrow more of interest free loans from you, we can do business now, safely.

And I hope that ALL business associations will do this, because there is virtually so little evidence of things being better in August than in June in terms of safety.

If government were getting extra ICU beds and wanted to wait till August - I would say, well not great, you should have ICU beds in case of ANY pandemic. but ok, its reasonable to wait. They arent doing any of this, just paying private hospitals 110m euro per month to stay empty.

I think most of them will be told to go away. The pub case is an interesting one and they might prevail. Private beds are being used for normal health activities and even at the price it's a worthwhile precaution for now.

easypazz · 05-05-2020 02:16PM

is_that_so wrote: »

At a guess anywhere below the 60-70 mark on ICU and new cases in double figures at most.

Also deaths below 10, I know its a lagging indicator but a lot of people think its reflective of the live situation, and its also a headline grabber.

uli84 · 05-05-2020 02:16PM

easypazz wrote: »

There were people on boards saying they flew in from Canada etc. applied for it and got it, even they hadn't even worked here in years.

I know somebody who was completely on the black economy, applied for it, got it, and is still working away on the black economy.

This is shocking if true

is_that_so · 05-05-2020 02:17PM

easypazz wrote: »

Also deaths below 10, I know its a lagging indicator but a lot of people think its reflective of the live situation, and its also a headline grabber.

I think and hope that may happen sooner than any of the other indicators.

is_that_so · 05-05-2020 02:18PM

uli84 wrote: »

This is shocking if true

It is a no question asked scenario, if you were "working" you were approved. Otherwise it's JSA/JSB.

Ginger n Lemon · 05-05-2020 02:18PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think most of them will be told to go away. The pub case is an interesting one and they might prevail. Private beds are being used for normal health activities and even at the price it's a worthwhile precaution for now.

I'd say every business association being turned down by the government will result in 5 000 P45s minimum. So I hope for the sake of our people not 1 of them will be turned away if it is willing to comply with social distancing. good few businesses are unprofitable if running at 50% capacity, so those jobs are lost already. We cant lose ALL the jobs, I hope?

is_that_so · 05-05-2020 02:22PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I'd say every business association being turned down by the government will result in 5 000 P45s minimum. So I hope for the sake of our people not 1 of them will be turned away if it is willing to comply with social distancing. good few businesses are unprofitable if running at 50% capacity, so those jobs are lost already. We cant lose ALL the jobs, I hope?

It's easier to plan for the future with a roadmap. June 10 is about six weeks or so away and there are two phases in June.

05-05-2020 02:22PM

is_that_so wrote: »

At a guess anywhere below the 60-70 mark on ICU and new cases in double figures at most.

I would assume its at a level where indications are that community spread is at a minimum, so we would then be in a position to contact trace every new case. If we are still at a large number of cases where we don't know the source of infection, all opening up in anything less than a very controlled manner is doing is resetting the clock to March 1st, and in 4 weeks we are right back where we started from.
Opening up in a planned manner allows a higher degree of confidence that it will hold and that the new testing, tracing and treatment measures will allow us to stay open and bring back economic activity in a sustained manner with better outcomes for everyone - no matter if you are an economic hawk or a health dove

Loozer · 05-05-2020 02:24PM

I wonder did they fuKk up meeting the vintners

No surprise there, would have been better focussing on business and let the vintners wait

05-05-2020 02:26PM

Loozer wrote: »

I wonder did they fuKk up meeting the vintners

No surprise there, would have been better focussing on business and let the vintners wait

The vintners is business, very big business in this country.

easypazz · 05-05-2020 02:29PM

Loozer wrote: »

I wonder did they fuKk up meeting the vintners

No surprise there, would have been better focussing on business and let the vintners wait

How many staff work in the the non business which was told reopen last 100000, 200000?

is_that_so · 05-05-2020 02:31PM

AdamD wrote: »

The vintners is business, very big business in this country.

They are proposing be treated the same as restaurants. Huge numbers BTW employed in both.

https://www.hospitalityireland.com/restaurant/estimated-120k-restaurant-pub-staff-laid-off-in-ireland-due-covid-19-92656

05-05-2020 02:44PM

It would be best to open pubs and restaurants at the same time.
Otherwise you might end up with a situation were people go to a restaurant and treat it like a pub.
For example, order some starters and sit at the table drinking for hours. Or even a main.

That will be very hard to police for restaurants. They might need to implement policies were its mandatory to spend x amount on food or have a time limit on tables.

05-05-2020 02:45PM

Loozer wrote: »

I wonder did they fuKk up meeting the vintners

No surprise there, would have been better focussing on business and let the vintners wait

Pubs not a business?
Should open at the same time as restaurants. With the same rules - social distancing enabled by seating plan, capacity based on seats available and table service only. Looking forward to reserving my favourite table at the local pub.

fly_agaric · 05-05-2020 02:46PM

is_that_so wrote: »

They are proposing be treated the same as restaurants. Huge numbers BTW employed in both.

https://www.hospitalityireland.com/restaurant/estimated-120k-restaurant-pub-staff-laid-off-in-ireland-due-covid-19-92656

^^They are not the same though.

Has to be serious doubts they will maintain any promises they make about how they will operate in order to open earlier (in face of pressure from customers, and demands of their bottom line that relies on a pile them in & get them guzzling drink until blathered model!).

The guards don't have the numbers to waste their time checking what the pubs are at when they do open up again.

Ginger n Lemon · 05-05-2020 02:50PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

^^They are not the same though.

Has to be serious doubts they will maintain any promises they make about how they will operate in order to open earlier (in face of pressure from customers, and demands of their bottom line that relies on a pile them in & get them guzzling drink until blathered model!).

The guards don't have the numbers to waste their time checking what the pubs are at when they do open up again.

Well seeing how closely guards are policing cyclists with milk, your last point could be debatable :P

castletownman · 05-05-2020 02:54PM

I must say I feel enlivened by the fact I can now travel 5KM to my local town to visit one of the cafes that re-opened today (all the while abiding to the new social distancing measures) and can walk the route I used to before the 2KM restrictions came into play later this evening.

The world genuinely feels like a bigger place all of a sudden.

iamwhoiam · 05-05-2020 02:57PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136568-dublin-parks/

Parks open for anyone cocooning between1:30 and 3:30 from tomorrow
It will be great to get out and enjoy fresh air

Breezin · 05-05-2020 03:07PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136568-dublin-parks/

Parks open for anyone cocooning between1:30 and 3:30 from tomorrow
It will be great to get out and enjoy fresh air

You have to wonder who makes these rules. People cocooning are less likely to be working from home. Surely it would be better to let those stuck on a PC all day to get out at lunchtime.

is_that_so · 05-05-2020 03:08PM

Breezin wrote: »

You have to wonder who makes these rules. People cocooning are less likely to be working from home. Surely it would be better to let those stuck on a PC all day to get out at lunchtime.

But you can get out at any time!

mollser · 05-05-2020 03:10PM

is_that_so wrote: »

But you can get out at any time!

This is kind of the exact time that kids use the parks though! They are generally doing home school from 9 - 12 (generally with rte2's show from 11 to 12), then go out for air in the afternoon!

Better to have the parks from 9 to 11 for the over 70's ffs

gmisk · 05-05-2020 03:13PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136568-dublin-parks/

Parks open for anyone cocooning between1:30 and 3:30 from tomorrow
It will be great to get out and enjoy fresh air

I think this is a great idea....I hope people stick to it.
I will do my afternoon walk from now on 1230 to 1 in that case.
I was wondering why Joe Duffy was on at people to wash yizzer hands and bring your earphones now I know why!

gmisk · 05-05-2020 03:14PM

mollser wrote: »

This is kind of the exact time that kids use the parks though! They are generally doing home school from 9 - 12 (generally with rte2's show from 11 to 12), then go out for air in the afternoon!

Better to have the parks from 9 to 11 for the over 70's ffs

If they are finished at 12....go out at 12...that's a big gap til 130.

Ginger n Lemon · 05-05-2020 03:14PM

Pretty interesting. Just googled "Denmark lifting restrictions", 9/10 top results from google are over 2 weeks old.

They've been lifting restrictions since 14th of April. Surely if there is a spike in cases or deaths from their reckless approach of not staying at home for further 3 months we would hear about that?

Kinda feel like - Denmark opens up & does ok, no news coverage.

UK reports 400 more deaths - all over the news.

Could the "save the 70 year olds" brigade please enlighten me, are Denmark people much healthier than here? or is covid19 much weaker in Denmark?

gmisk · 05-05-2020 03:16PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Pretty interesting. Just googled "Denmark lifting restrictions", 9/10 top results from google are over 2 weeks old.

They've been lifting restrictions since 14th of April. Surely if there is a spike in cases or deaths from their reckless approach of not staying at home for further 3 months we would hear about that?

Kinda feel like - Denmark opens up & does ok, no news coverage.

UK reports 400 more deaths - all over the news.

Could the "save the 70 year olds" brigade please enlighten me, are Denmark people much healthier than here? or is covid19 much weaker in Denmark?

We are right beside the UK we are both islands..they have a much more prevelant media, especially in Ireland. We have huge links and northern Ireland is part of the UK...

I would say on average Danish people are a lot healthier than UK and Irish people..yes.
We are a bunch of fatties.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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