Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Jinglejangle69 · 03-05-2020 05:44PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Considering Italy will open the pub's on June 1st the publicans have every right to feel aggrieved having to wait 2.5 months longer

Yeah because Italian pubs and Irish pubs are exactly the same not too mention the difference in drinking cultures!!

FintanMcluskey · 03-05-2020 05:45PM

kippy wrote: »

You've said that there's been no consideration for the economy in all of this.
There has. Any state payment scheme is an economic intervention, as were the six billion of measures mentioned yesterday. As are any of the measures the state has asked the banks to assist with, or insurance companies, or revenue...If you don't know what an economy is or accept that the actions of the government in introducing payment schemes is one part of an economy then you're not going to deviate from your opinion that there's been no consideration for the economy.
That doesn't make you right, just not informed.

Thats great stuff but its all comes at the price of an extraordinary increase of national debt.
Now your economic understanding is admirable as you did say construction and manufacturing have no effect on the economy, presumably because free money is the only source of economic revival.

FintanMcluskey · 03-05-2020 05:49PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah because Italian pubs and Irish pubs are exactly the same not too mention the difference in drinking cultures!!

Italy and Ireland can't not be compared to the effects of this virus. Also the Italian culture is much more intrusive of personal space than Ireland.
But I get it, you don't enjoy the social outlet of a few beers with friends, so every one in a pub is a drunkard falling around licking the floor

kippy · 03-05-2020 05:53PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Thats great stuff but its all comes at the price of an extraordinary increase of national debt.
Now your economic understanding is admirable as you did say construction and manufacturing have no effect on the economy, presumably because free money is the only source of economic revival.

I didnt say they had no effect on the economy. I said construction was a small part of the economy. But you have a habit of misrepresenting what both yourself and others say so that's understandable.

No such thing as free money, just very very cheap money which has also funded a shed of construction here and elsewhere over the past few years

Ginger n Lemon · 03-05-2020 05:59PM

kippy wrote: »

I didnt say they had no effect on the economy. I said construction was a small part of the economy. But you have a habit of misrepresenting what both yourself and others say so that's understandable.

No such thing as free money, just very very cheap money which has also funded a shed of construction here and elsewhere over the past few years

So from your logic because money is "very, very cheap" governments should hand it out no questions asked?

Construction is a small sector? 140,000 jobs in construction, direct jobs, what about suppliers... what about jobs in deli counters that prepare lunch for these construction workers every day? Huge part of economy.

I am not actually even angry at construction sector being underestimated, I am angry at the fact that some of the healthiest people work in construction, strong lads, young lads all been told to stay at home. These guys wont even feel the virus. They dont tend to live with elderly before this funny "yeah but" is thrown at me. They should have been working every day. Just like in Canada. Just like in UK.

Bruthal · 03-05-2020 06:12PM

JoeA3 wrote: »

I and most reasonable people see it differently. Mainly young men, working in isolation, getting on with it, working hard, no danger to anyone. Not sitting on their holes collecting €350 a week.

JoeA3 wrote: »

Nonsense? In your opinion.

Not naive, just realistic and capable of weighing up relative risks in my own mind. I perceive the risks on an open building site as absolutely minuscule, something thats clearly widely agreed upon, considering they are going to be the first to be allowed back (officially).

I'm not willing to hide in my bedroom for another 2 months and I wouldn't dream of snitching on hardworking locals.

You seem to have an imagined view of building sites, fuelled by this perception put forward that they are outdoor jobs, "working in isolation" etc. Well, the reality is with commercial sites, hundreds of persons, indoors, often queues at toilets as the minimum requirements are never enough (hundreds of lads with 15 or 20 toilets between them), packed into canteens at break times as the canteens are overcrowded, and the very nature of this type of work requires close proximity to others. Quite how people think buildings are built with everyone outside is an interesting one.

And as for the "minuscule risk" being widely agreed upon, well if they have this view of 20 lads building a data centre by all standing isolated outside it, its easy to see why such a "widely agreed" view is held, when the reality is, there will be hundreds around each other inside it.

gmisk · 03-05-2020 06:12PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

An ICU consultant said in an interview last week that the vast majority of the Covid patients in the Mater were Roma and Brazalian . Make of that what you will

Do you have a link?

kippy · 03-05-2020 06:15PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So from your logic because money is "very, very cheap" governments should hand it out no questions asked?

Construction is a small sector? 140,000 jobs in construction, direct jobs, what about suppliers... what about jobs in deli counters that prepare lunch for these construction workers every day? Huge part of economy.

I am not actually even angry at construction sector being underestimated, I am angry at the fact that some of the healthiest people work in construction, strong lads, young lads all been told to stay at home. These guys wont even feel the virus. They dont tend to live with elderly before this funny "yeah but" is thrown at me. They should have been working every day. Just like in Canada. Just like in UK.

That's not what I said, but feel free to misrepresent me.
Construction is a small part of the economy, you can and have quoted me on that.
Knock yourself out with the facts.
https://w3.unece.org/PXWeb/en/Charts?IndicatorCode=8

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2020 06:17PM

gmisk wrote: »

Do you have a link?

No i dont have a link , he was interviewed on RTE either news or on PrimeTime

He said there were large clusters in the area around the Mater in the Roma and Brazilian community . He put it down to over crowding in that areac

giveitholly · 03-05-2020 06:21PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No i dont have a link , he was interviewed on RTE either news or on PrimeTime

Yeah I actually heard the same on the tonight show about two weeks ago,Some guy(can't remember who) was concerned about the amount of covid amongst the Roma and migrant community in inner city Dublin

Bob24 · 03-05-2020 06:22PM

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2020 06:26PM

giveitholly wrote: »

Yeah I actually heard the same on the tonight show about two weeks ago,Some guy(can't remember who) was concerned about the amount of covid amongst the Roma and migrant community in inner city Dublin

Thanks . I watched so many programmes that I cant remember where I saw things !!

Cyrus · 03-05-2020 06:26PM

Does anyone really think they are going to catch it by walking past someone too closely ?

Cyrus · 03-05-2020 06:27PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

If people are well spaced out which they appear to be , what’s the issue

Bob24 · 03-05-2020 06:31PM

Cyrus wrote: »

If people are well spaced out which they appear to be , what’s the issue

On the picture from the park, I don't see which of the allowed reasons to leave your home people would fit: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cf9b0d-new-public-health-measures-effective-now-to-prevent-further-spread-o/#the-only-reasons-you-can-leave-your-home

On the other picture they clearly aren't within 2 meters of each other.

CruelSummer · 03-05-2020 06:33PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

This kind of vilification of people enjoying the nice weather, at a social distance is ridiculous. Everyone in pics provided are in groups, helping themselves stay sane during a way over the top lockdown that doesn’t even need to continue for the next two weeks. If you’re an at risk person, it’s not the public’s fault, people have to live their lives.
I think a day of reckoning is on the way for the government. Far too slow to lift restrictions, while the damage is catastrophic. I would understand if the death rate was 8-10%. But it’s actually less than 1% so therefore why are we even locked down at the moment?!

robinph · 03-05-2020 06:34PM

Bruthal wrote: »

You seem to have an imagined view of building sites, fuelled by this perception put forward that they are outdoor jobs, "working in isolation" etc. Well, the reality is with commercial sites, hundreds of persons, indoors, often queues at toilets as the minimum requirements are never enough (hundreds of lads with 15 or 20 toilets between them), packed into canteens at break times as the canteens are overcrowded, and the very nature of this type of work requires close proximity to others. Quite how people think buildings are built with everyone outside is an interesting one.

And as for the "minuscule risk" being widely agreed upon, well if they have this view of 20 lads building a data centre by all standing isolated outside it, its easy to see why such a "widely agreed" view is held, when the reality is, there will be hundreds around each other inside it.

Other than certain tasks there is a lot of things which can be done without people needing to be in close proximity to each other though. New ways of doing those tasks need to be figured out, or accept the risks, and the rest of us have to accept that building work will take longer than before as all the other tasks that can be done solo are going to take longer as you can only have one or two people in a room at a time.

Or we stop building stuff because it's too complicated.

There isn't going to be much call for new office buildings for a good few years anyway so no rush there, upgrading fibre links to people's houses is where the work is going to be now.

Gynoid · 03-05-2020 06:36PM

Bruthal wrote: »

You seem to have an imagined view of building sites, fuelled by this perception put forward that they are outdoor jobs, "working in isolation" etc. Well, the reality is with commercial sites, hundreds of persons, indoors, often queues at toilets as the minimum requirements are never enough (hundreds of lads with 15 or 20 toilets between them), packed into canteens at break times as the canteens are overcrowded, and the very nature of this type of work requires close proximity to others. Quite how people think buildings are built with everyone outside is an interesting one.

And as for the "minuscule risk" being widely agreed upon, well if they have this view of 20 lads building a data centre by all standing isolated outside it, its easy to see why such a "widely agreed" view is held, when the reality is, there will be hundreds around each other inside it.

No man, pffft, they are all muscle bound leaping young gods, none of them over 30, all of them with the immune sysyems of bull elephants ranging the wide open pristine spaces alone and proudly aloof. Not a single moob, beer gut, grey hair, fat arse, bald skull or underlying condition among them. No sirree.

FintanMcluskey · 03-05-2020 06:38PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

There's some lookers in those pic's Bob, handy way to sneak a few pic's and claim it's in the name of outrage!

Which park was it, asking for a friend, he's very responsible with the social distance thing!!

robinph · 03-05-2020 06:39PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

I'm guessing you were equally appalled with your own behaviour as well in heading to a popular spot that other people were already hanging out in and then stopping to take photos because everyone else was so appalling?

Bob24 · 03-05-2020 06:41PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

This kind of vilification of people enjoying the nice weather, at a social distance is ridiculous. Everyone in pics provided are in groups, helping themselves stay sane during a way over the top lockdown that doesn’t even need to continue for the next two weeks. If you’re an at risk person, it’s not the public’s fault, people have to live their lives.
I think a day of reckoning is on the way for the government. Far too slow to lift restrictions, while the damage is catastrophic. I would understand if the death rate was 8-10%. But it’s actually less than 1% so therefore why are we even locked down at the moment?!

They clearly aren't further than 2 meters from each other on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

All I'm saying is that if people don't like the rules they should be vocal and convincing about changing them; not break them. That is ridiculous.

kippy · 03-05-2020 06:43PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

This kind of vilification of people enjoying the nice weather, at a social distance is ridiculous. Everyone in pics provided are in groups, helping themselves stay sane during a way over the top lockdown that doesn’t even need to continue for the next two weeks. If you’re an at risk person, it’s not the public’s fault, people have to live their lives.
I think a day of reckoning is on the way for the government. Far too slow to lift restrictions, while the damage is catastrophic. I would understand if the death rate was 8-10%. But it’s actually less than 1% so therefore why are we even locked down at the moment?!

1 percent of 5 million works out at 50,000.
14 percent, the hospitalisation numbers works out at 700,000 half these rates if you think it doesn't take account of people without symptoms.

Yes, these are totally sustainable numbers that won't cause any issues whatsoever when the number of hospital beds is in the thousands and ICU beds in the hundreds.
That's why there are restrictions in place on movement etc.

It's crazy that 6 weeks in people don't appreciate the figures involved. The precise reason we are keeping the numbers manageable IS the restrictions we have been generally adhering too.

I've not real opinion on the photos.

FintanMcluskey · 03-05-2020 06:44PM

kippy wrote: »

1 percent of 5 million works out at 50,000.
14 percent, the hospitalisation numbers works out at 700,000 half these rates if you think it doesn't take account of people without symptoms.

Yes, these are totally sustainable numbers that won't cause any issues whatsoever when the number of hospital beds is in the thousands and ICU beds in the hundreds.
That's why there are restrictions in place on movement etc.

It's crazy that 6 weeks in people don't appreciate the figures involved. The precise reason we are keeping the numbers manageable IS the restrictions we have been generally adhering too.

I've not real opinion on the photos.

Whats your opinion on Sweden

Ginger n Lemon · 03-05-2020 06:46PM

Bob24 wrote: »

They clearly aren't within 2 meters on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

All I'm saying is that if people don't like the rules they should be vocal and convincing about changing them; not break them. That is ridiculous.

Bob, they tried. But Garda closed Pheonix park.

Garda will shut down any form of public gatherings, there were 6 girls protesting against Debenhams on Henry street, easily 3 meters apart from each other, still told to get the hell out by our law enforcement.

kippy · 03-05-2020 06:46PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Whats your opinion on Sweden

I don't live in Sweden, amn't Swedish and don't know enough outside of their death rates to have a well formed opinion on Sweden.

Do you disagree with my maths?

castletownman · 03-05-2020 06:47PM

robinph wrote: »

I'm guessing you were equally appalled with your own behaviour as well in heading to a popular spot that other people were already hanging out in and then stopping to take photos because everyone else was so appalling?

He was only there to get directions on how to get away from there!

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2020 06:51PM

Bob24 wrote: »

They clearly aren't further than 2 meters from each other on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

All I'm saying is that if people don't like the rules they should be vocal and convincing about changing them; not break them. That is ridiculous.

Were you there on the essential business of photoing them ?

Ginger n Lemon · 03-05-2020 06:51PM

kippy wrote: »

I don't live in Sweden, amn't Swedish and don't know enough outside of their death rates to have a well formed opinion on Sweden.

Do you disagree with my maths?

I disagree with your maths. They've already proved New York's death rate of 0.12%. Slightly higher of flu.

Unfortunate Kippy people will die. Whether off flu or car crash or cancer or tuberculosis. Telling 99.8% of population to try to stay at home, miss out on vitamin D or actual social interaction, create 25% unemployment (10% permanent unemployment into next 3 years) and put 100 + businesses into bankruptcy is not the way to go.

LiquidZeb · 03-05-2020 06:52PM

Gynoid wrote: »

Maybe because it was nasty and low, and you find that kind of remark funny..?

Why don't you go and gawk out the curtains to make sure no one's outside like a good lad.

Bob24 · 03-05-2020 06:52PM

robinph wrote: »

I'm guessing you were equally appalled with your own behaviour as well in heading to a popular spot that other people were already hanging out in and then stopping to take photos because everyone else was so appalling?

No need. I was taking a walk within 2km of my home without anyone closer than 2 metres from me (I wasn't in the park, just taking a zoomed picture from the street). Not lying in the park with a big crowd.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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