Relaxation of restrictions Part II

JRant · 02-05-2020 09:08AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

We have to see how it plays out but I agree if everywhere else is open and the virus is largely contained then yes there's going to be pressure to open more up. But Leo did say last night that its possible that might happen,
"If, for example, we found out the virus was dissipating and weakening much quicker than we intended, there are some things that are now in phase five or four that might be brought forward."

I'd be fairly sure if FFG form a government that roadmap will be swiftly placed in the bin. Once we get back to a semi working Dail the pressure to bring in timelines will ramp up considerably.

zerosugarbuzz · 02-05-2020 09:11AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Not correct just look what's after happening in the meat factorys.

There won’t be the volume of deaths in the meat factories, not human deaths anyway

lawrencesummers · 02-05-2020 09:12AM

The plan is a plan and needs to be subject to change, if cases increase then it will go back a step.

But if cases don’t increase and testing is at satisfactory levels then the gov are going to have a hell Of a time keeping pubs closed until mid August if there hasn’t been a case recorded since June. It’s possible that our numbers by the End of May are zero new infections. Try keeping restrictions in place then until August.

It’s also very unclear what the situation is with flights.

I see the biggest issue at this stage with flight from the US or UK being allowed to resume.

There should be a complete ban on US travel to Ireland until such time as there is a handle on the situation over there. A lot of the reports from there make it very likely that a second wave of infection is inevitable in the US. If it hasn’t started already.

uli84 · 02-05-2020 09:13AM

To all those saying this is saving lives and all that... where in this plan I can see when the screening tests for cancer and diabetes complications are restarting?

JTMan · 02-05-2020 09:16AM

Cina wrote: »

I've read the roadmap and I can't find a clear explanation as to when IT companies and the like will actually go back to the office?

The closest I see is phase 4 where they say "Organisations where employees cannot remote work to be considered first for return to onsite working arrangements".. so does that mean I still have to remote work seeing as we can in my company? Because there's no mention in phase 5 of not having to remote work anymore!

There is a mention in phase 5.

It is clear. Phase 5 says "Phased “return to onsite working” arrangement".

Basically, anyone who can work from home, must work from home until at least 10 August. Thereafter companies can phase staff gradually back into the office or choose to retain remote working.

stephenjmcd · 02-05-2020 09:16AM

JRant wrote: »

I'd be fairly sure if FFG form a government that roadmap will be swiftly placed in the bin. Once we get back to a semi working Dail the pressure to bring in timelines will ramp up considerably.

There is that too, would be interesting to see what way a FF led government would want to progress through it. Then again do they say to Leo you can have the first 2 years and he sticks to the plan. Alot to work out.

It'll be interesting to see what the UK plan is, more so in terms of NI, if they move ahead then that'll cause a headache

blackcard · 02-05-2020 09:17AM

uli84 wrote: »

To all those saying this is saving lives and all that... where in this plan I can see when the screening tests for cancer and diabetes complications are restarting?

They have been encouraging people for weeks to keep appointments for these and other illnesses

costacorta · 02-05-2020 09:18AM

helimachoptor wrote: »

3.5 months before we see any real normality.
Seems insane when you see the plans of other euro countries.

The brits will have theirs released during the week and it will be a shorter return than ours.

And you want to take the lead of the Brits do ya ?? Maybe you prefer to follow Trumps guidelines and inject a bit of dettol as that was great idea ..

ZX7R · 02-05-2020 09:21AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

With the widened case definition it's going to be hard tell who's sick from what without a lot of testing self isolating going on. I think we we're lucky when Covid this year. Winter is going to be a lot more tricky. Pubs won't be open and we'll be back in lockdown again without total eradication over the next few months.

Winter may not be so bad
Some medical professionals seem to think with social distancing in place influenza should not spread as rapidly .
Also some believe flu vaccine should be made mandatory starting with most at risk then expanding the vaccination process, through age groups.
Another interesting reason given was our most at risk group to the flu who would take up most hospital spaces have already succumbed to the covid-19 virus.

02-05-2020 09:21AM

Quick question:

Why are Woodies and Homebase still closed?

They are huge stores with big side isles which makes it very easy to keep your distance. Well spaced out checkouts. They are no different in layout to Lidl, Aldi and Tesco except better in terms of space. They also have everything you need for house and garden which would make this isolation so much easier to bear. I have been completely on my own for 7 weeks now.

In comparison both Dealz and Choice are open, just a few doors down from Woodies here in Drogheda.

If people have to "suck it up" why on earth could the Government not at least give us something to do. It feels like punishment after 7 weeks of being alone. Surely at this stage there could have been some little reward thrown in for people considering the sacrifices and solidarity we have all shown. This is the 3rd Bank Holiday with nothing to do.

uli84 · 02-05-2020 09:22AM

blackcard wrote: »

They have been encouraging people for weeks to keep appointments for these and other illnesses

Great but these are closed, not giving appointments

the kelt · 02-05-2020 09:25AM

costacorta wrote: »

And you want to take the lead of the Brits do ya ?? Maybe you prefer to follow Trumps guidelines and inject a bit of dettol as that was great idea ..

I think his point is that we aren’t following the brits and others.

For example it’s widely accepted that Britain has not done a good job handling this pandemic and we have done a far better job etc.

So if Britain and every other country in Europe for example is through this and opened up meanwhile we can’t cos of testing and tracing and numbers issues etc does the same rhetoric hold?

lawrencesummers · 02-05-2020 09:27AM

ZX7R wrote: »

Winter may not be so bad
Some medical professionals seem to think with social distancing in place influenza should not spread as rapidly .
Also some believe flu vaccine should be made mandatory starting with most at risk then expanding the vaccination process, through age groups.
Another interesting reason given was our most at risk group to the flu who would take up most hospital spaces have already succumbed to the covid-19 virus.

I’m no anti-vaxer and unfortunately I know a few who are, but you won’t be getting me to take any flu vaccines while I’m a fit healthy adult with a functioning Immune system.

helimachoptor · 02-05-2020 09:30AM

costacorta wrote: »

And you want to take the lead of the Brits do ya ?? Maybe you prefer to follow Trumps guidelines and inject a bit of dettol as that was great idea ..

Not sure how you got that from my post.

We appear to be in a far better place than the UK (and US) and some of Europe. Spain has released a detailed plan to open up over the next few weeks, not months.

Likewise when Boris releases his plan, I would assume they're return to 'normal' will be a lot swifter than ours.

kippy · 02-05-2020 09:31AM

the kelt wrote: »

I think his point is that we aren’t following the brits and others.

For example it’s widely accepted that Britain has not done a good job handling this pandemic and we have done a far better job etc.

So if Britain and every other country in Europe for example is through this and opened up meanwhile we can’t cos of testing and tracing and numbers issues etc does the same rhetoric hold?

There's space in the plan issued for the stages to happen faster than the current forecast if the numerous variables involved allow for earlier opening.

helimachoptor · 02-05-2020 09:33AM

kippy wrote: »

There's space in the plan issued for the stages to happen faster than the current forecast if the numerous variables involved allow for earlier opening.

I think there is zero chance of anything being pullwd forward, they are risk averse and NPEHT are making the decisions as has been said, they won't do it. If anything they'll extend some stages if there's not an improvement in infection rates.

Stark · 02-05-2020 09:36AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’m no anti-vaxer and unfortunately I know a few who are, but you won’t be getting me to take any flu vaccines while I’m a fit healthy adult with a functioning Immune system.

"I'm no <insert anything you want here> but..."

I for one will be getting it in the hopes that it can provide small relief to the health service and maybe avoid as severe a winter lockdown. The proven negative effects of long term isolation and economic devastation are far greater than any of the vaccine bogeymonster's.

kippy · 02-05-2020 09:36AM

helimachoptor wrote: »

I think there is zero chance of anything being pullwd forward, they are risk averse and NPEHT are making the decisions as has been said, they won't do it. If anything they'll extend some stages if there's not an improvement in infection rates.

I don't disagree.
Just pointing out that there is allowance in the plan for a swifter stage by stage opening. A few people had pointed out what would happen if the variables improved faster
Doesn't mean it will happen and it's likely they will and should err on the side of caution.

rodders999 · 02-05-2020 09:38AM

Sinead Kissane on Ireland AM just now - “We’re never going back to the way things were before Covid 19”

WTF??

I actually had to rewind it to make sure I hadn’t misheard her. What a completely irresponsible thing to say on the national airwaves.

Discodog · 02-05-2020 09:40AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Quick question:

Why are Woodies and Homebase still closed?

They are huge stores with big side isles which makes it very easy to keep your distance. Well spaced out checkouts. They are no different in layout to Lidl, Aldi and Tesco except better in terms of space. They also have everything you need for house and garden which would make this isolation so much easier to bear. I have been completely on my own for 7 weeks now.

In comparison both Dealz and Choice are open, just a few doors down from Woodies here in Drogheda.

If people have to "suck it up" why on earth could the Government not at least give us something to do. It feels like punishment after 7 weeks of being alone. Surely at this stage there could have been some little reward thrown in for people considering the sacrifices and solidarity we have all shown. This is the 3rd Bank Holiday with nothing to do.

They are & always have been legally allowed to open. They are listed as an essential service. But they were told not to & made their own decision.

SCHEDULE 1
Regulation 3
ESSENTIAL RETAIL OUTLETS

1. Outlets selling food or beverages on a takeaway basis, or newspapers, whether on a retail or wholesale basis and whether in a non-specialised or specialised outlet.

2. Outlets selling products necessary for the essential upkeep and functioning of places of residence and businesses, whether on a retail or wholesale basis.

3. Pharmacies, chemists and retailers or wholesalers providing pharmaceuticals or pharmaceutical or dispensing services, whether on a retail or wholesale basis.

4. Outlets selling health, medical or orthopaedic goods in a specialised outlet, whether on a retail or wholesale basis.

5. Fuel service stations and heating fuel providers.

6. Outlets selling essential items for the health and welfare of animals (including animal feed and veterinary medicinal products, pet food, animal bedding and animal supplies), whether on a retail or wholesale basis.

7. Laundries and drycleaners.

8. Banks, post offices and credit unions.

9. Outlets selling safety supplies (including work-wear apparel, footwear and personal protective equipment), whether on a retail or wholesale basis.

10. Hardware outlets, builders’ merchants and outlets that provide, whether on a retail or wholesale basis - (a) hardware products necessary for home and business maintenance, (b) sanitation and farm equipment, or (c) supplies and tools essential for gardening, farming or agriculture purposes.

02-05-2020 09:40AM

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Absolutely crazy. The nursing homes are where the majority of this virus is now.
I spoke to a mate in canada last night. Hasn't stopped working, construction. They are now easing restrictions.
Look at the state of us. 5km , 10km leo can do one. I'm going where I want, but avoiding contact with others. If you don't trust the people, they won't trust you.

This is insane, 5km from Tuesday , 20km from sometime in June (maybe) and then what? Why were there no questions allowed afterwards to Varadkar? Why is this tolerated?
We all get the seriousness of this, but this is crazy. There are only two reasons why I want to go beyond the 2km limit, 1) visit my day who lives over an hour away, 2) go to my remote site at night which I have for astronomy, this is about 45/50 km away, when weather permits I would go there approx once per week, with a telescope and imaging equipment, spend a couple of hours and come back home, all alone.
If anyone knows what the fine is for breaking the distance limit please let me know, I'll gladly pay it.

kippy · 02-05-2020 09:41AM

rodders999 wrote: »

Sinead Kissane on Ireland AM just now - “We’re never going back to the way things were before Covid 19”

WTF??

I actually had to rewind it to make sure I hadn’t misheard her. What a completely irresponsible thing to say on the national airwaves.

Well. She is right. The way things will be will be different to how they were on the first of March
She's not necessarily talking about current restrictions.
Would it be any harm if cough and sneeze etiquette and basic hand washing (which should have been common anyway) be used by far more of the population?
One thing that will never be the same, there are plenty more and not negative either.

the kelt · 02-05-2020 09:42AM

kippy wrote: »

There's space in the plan issued for the stages to happen faster than the current forecast if the numerous variables involved allow for earlier opening.

Actually that was another question someone might be able to answer.

What are the variables and the numbers?

I like the plan, sure not everyone will agree with everything but I was critical of the lack of a plan and the plan they laid out was pretty comprehensive if pretty conservative.

But what are the numbers associated with each stage or even the first stage or is that still finger in the air at the time numbers?

For example we keep hearing the numbers aren’t good enough yet with regards to testing, tracing, people in icu, R0 etc etc

So what numbers are good enough?

Surely starting in 2 weeks is subject to numbers being at a certain level that they’re not at today, what numbers are they?

kippy · 02-05-2020 09:43AM

Lots of hardware stores are doing home delivery all over the country. There was a spell of about a week where they weren't.

02-05-2020 09:43AM

Its very clear who this illness impacts the most. Well over 90% of deaths are in the over 65 category.
With this in mind, I would have thought cocooning for longer would have been the main priority.
Keeping that category at home and locked down will prevent deaths and hospitalizations.
But the first phase of our plan encourages them to go out and about.

My father in law called last night and was overjoyed that he can "Go to Aldi and Lidl again".

I fear this approach will see us fall at the first hurdle.

Of course the much bigger problem is going to be the recession that follows. How bad that is depends on how long we remain in lockdown and semi lockdowns. Every week is costing millions currently.

02-05-2020 09:46AM

rodders999 wrote: »

Sinead Kissane on Ireland AM just now - “We’re never going back to the way things were before Covid 19”

WTF??

I actually had to rewind it to make sure I hadn’t misheard her. What a completely irresponsible thing to say on the national airwaves.

She's a complete numpty anyway, so it would actually be unusual if she said anything remotely intelligent. Every time she's comes on TV I change the channel, only one reason why she has her job, and it's not because she can interview people after a game, have you ever seen the look on some of the players/managers face when she asks them a completely dumb question after a match, they look like they just want to deck her one.

kippy · 02-05-2020 09:47AM

the kelt wrote: »

Actually that was another question someone might be able to answer.

What are the variables and the numbers?

I like the plan, sure not everyone will agree with everything but I was critical of the lack of a plan and the plan they laid out was pretty comprehensive if pretty conservative.

But what are the numbers associated with each stage or even the first stage or is that still finger in the air at the time numbers?

For example we keep hearing the numbers aren’t good enough yet with regards to testing, tracing, people in icu, R0 etc etc

So what numbers are good enough?

Surely starting in 2 weeks is subject to numbers being at a certain level that they’re not at today, what numbers are they?

I don't have that detail and doubt any here would.

gozunda · 02-05-2020 09:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Quick question:
Why are Woodies and Homebase still closed?
They are huge stores with big side isles which makes it very easy to keep your distance. Well spaced out checkouts. They are no different in layout to Lidl, Aldi and Tesco except better in terms of space. They also have everything you need for house and garden which would make this isolation so much easier to bear. I have been completely on my own for 7 weeks now. In comparison both Dealz and Choice are open, just a few doors down from Woodies here in Drogheda.
If people have to "suck it up" why on earth could the Government not at least give us something to do. It feels like punishment after 7 weeks of being alone. Surely at this stage there could have been some little reward thrown in for people considering the sacrifices and solidarity we have all shown. This is the 3rd Bank Holiday with nothing to do.

Ultimately they are non essential. The plan includes details of when they will open. The only reason Deslz etc arevopen is that they sell food.

Seetmaggie I get it that you are struggling with being alone. I reckon at least part of that was that you chose to go into social isolation before it was mandated hich hasn't helped tbh. This was why the gov was reluctant to put in full restrictions too early because they knew some would develop cabin fever.

If you can't use social media such as skype to keep in regular contact with friends and family or whatever then I'd suggest you look for something positive like a counsellor available by phone. It will help.

Afaik the goverment have not asked people to 'suck it up'. Neither is everyone doing their bit a 'sacrifice'. Its necessary to keep the rate of infection down for everyone including yourself.

Nothing to do? Take up something - whether that's learning a language or online jigsaw puzzles or knitting a blanket- just do it and keep yourself busy.

kippy · 02-05-2020 09:49AM

JL555 wrote: »

She's a complete numpty anyway, so it would actually be unusual if she said anything remotely intelligent. Every time she's comes on TV I change the channel, only one reason why she has her job, and it's not because she can interview people after a game, have you ever seen the look on some of the players/managers face when she asks them a completely dumb question after a match, they look like they just want to deck her one.

Whatever about what you think of her, the statement is 100 percent correct.
I would have thought most people would have expected this anyway.

lawrencesummers · 02-05-2020 09:50AM

I’ve come to the conclusion that boards.ie have hired John Delaney to manage their servers.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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