Relaxation of restrictions Part II

kippy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’ve come to the conclusion that boards.ie have hired John Delaney to manage their servers.

It's much better on touch.boards.ie for whatever reason or it has been for me the past week or so.

iamwhoiam

Was there any mention of when children can play with another ? Cousins who both are taken nowhere and are staying in their own house or garden ? I think they will have to have small groups of children playing together before the try opening schools and having them all together .

Pitch n Putt

Posted this in main Covid thread earlier regarding the meat factory outbreaks

Surely are clusters but they then in turn contribute to community spread

Dawn Meats at least had the good sense to close after 4 reported cases.

How in the name of god those fools in Roscrea continued and actually still continue is beyond belief.

They stated that those infected are in self isolation in line with HSE guidelines.

The HSE would want to be making a clear statement to these essential workplaces that If you get 5/10/20 cases that you shut the f**king doors immediately for 21 days minimum to try and control the outbreak.

It’s no good isolating those that have it while it spreads like wildfire through the factory.

This is the problem with the whole lockdown and essential workplaces. Apart from hospitals and care facilities there has to be a point where operations must cease.

Employers will keep going indefinitely as it’s all about the numbers to them. Someone needS to protect the workers

How is it that NPHET /HSE has guidelines for when we can move the next phase or go back a phase but no plans or guidelines were clearly stated regarding an outbreak in essential workplaces?

The result is what’s currently happening with the meat factory. Employers want to keep going at any cost and with a cluster of 80 plus in the one factory that’s clear to see.

The factory in Roscrea clearly states they were following HSE guidelines of self isolating the workers.Clarity is needed obviously for some employers as to when enough is enough.

Whoever made the decision to continue operations needs to be held accountable for endangering the rest of the workers in this factory.

Dumdum McCarthy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’ve come to the conclusion that boards.ie have hired John Delaney to manage their servers.

In fairness to big John he was months ahead of us all with self isolation...he got that right at least and didnt cost us anything.

iamwhoiam

kippy wrote: »

It's much better on touch.boards.ie for whatever reason or it has been for me the past week or so.

I have no problem on the PC but its dreadful on my phone .? I have no idea why that is ?

Dumdum McCarthy

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Posted this in main Covid thread earlier regarding the meat factory outbreaks

Surely are clusters but they then in turn contribute to community spread

Dawn Meats at least had the good sense to close after 4 reported cases.

How in the name of god those fools in Roscrea continued and actually still continue is beyond belief.

They stated that those infected are in self isolation in line with HSE guidelines.

The HSE would want to be making a clear statement to these essential workplaces that If you get 5/10/20 cases that you shut the f**king doors immediately for 21 days minimum to try and control the outbreak.

It’s no good isolating those that have it while it spreads like wildfire through the factory.

This is the problem with the whole lockdown and essential workplaces. Apart from hospitals and care facilities there has to be a point where operations must cease.

Employers will keep going indefinitely as it’s all about the numbers to them. Someone needS to protect the workers

How is it that NPHET /HSE has guidelines for when we can move the next phase or go back a phase but no plans or guidelines were clearly stated regarding an outbreak in essential workplaces?

The result is what’s currently happening with the meat factory. Employers want to keep going at any cost and with a cluster of 80 plus in the one factory that’s clear to see.

The factory in Roscrea clearly states they were following HSE guidelines of self isolating the workers.Clarity is needed obviously for some employers as to when enough is enough.

Whoever made the decision to continue operations needs to be held accountable for endangering the rest of the workers in this factory.

I work in a college and we have gone back since last week andvwe have upped our hours from Tuesday...a government body breaking goverment rules...
And btw you have to park around the back...

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Ultimately they are non essential. The plan includes details of when they will open. The only reason Deslz etc arevopen is that they sell food.

Seetmaggie I get it that you are struggling with being alone. I reckon at least part of that was that you chose to go into social isolation before it was mandated hich hasn't helped tbh. This was why the gov was reluctant to put in full restrictions too early because they knew some would develop cabin fever.

If you can't use social media such as skype to keep in regular contact with friends and family or whatever then I'd suggest you look for something positive like a counsellor available by phone. It will help.

Afaik the goverment have not asked people to 'suck it up'. Neither is everyone doing their bit a 'sacrifice'. Its necessary to keep the rate of infection down for everyone including yourself.

Nothing to do? Take up something - whether that's learning a language or online jigsaw puzzles or knitting a blanket- just do it and keep yourself busy.

I'm almost finished an online course in Animal behaviour and have started another one in Permaculture. I dont want to sit any longer at a computer doing online jigsaws. I am an outdoor person and that has always been my therapy, space, air, exercise, peace and quiet in the mountains. I need to be active.

It is the same for many people who have been bereaved. They CANNOT sit in the house all day long on the computer or watching Netflix. Its the getting out that is the therapy.

I have been gardening non stop but I need stuff from Woodies or Homebase at this stage, tried ringing them but their lines were engaged, next time their delivery slot was 10 day wait.
Basically the hardest part of this is that I am doing it solo.

Not complaining, it is what it is, but my original questions stands: Woodies, Homebase and garden centres should be open. 'Choice' is open in Drogheda and the only food it sells is crap like fizzy drinks and bars of chocolate. Thats hardly essential food!!

I know we don't have a specific thread dedicated to Tony Holohan but how on earth is this man still in a job!
He should have been fired or walked away after his attempts to cover up the cervical check scandal.
Less than 2 months ago, he wanted the visiting ban in nursing homes to be lifted. The poor residents are been wiped out in high numbers now while Tony goes on TV saying they could never have avoided it getting to the homes.
Even now, they've lifted the restrictions on the elderly before its safe to do so.

If anyone else made such catastrophic errors in their line of work, they would have been relieved of their duties long ago.

CruelSummer

Boards has been painfully slow to operate over the past few days. Couldn’t even load up pages.

I feel the government are leaning too much on the NPHET advice and not taking correct decisions for the current situation. Is NPHET’s brief just purely containment of the virus?
Do they not deal with the vast repercussions beyond that?
Garden and DIY should be open now, no reason at all for delay. People need to reassured that it’s safe to go to the shop using the correct procedures and protocols.
Why are we writing off July in Ireland, it’s two full months away & things are already well under control. I’m extremely worried the consequences this will have on cancer screening, etc. Months delay will kill people, possibly more than the virus.
The economic cost of this is becoming catastrophic. Does this factor into the decisions being taken.
I saw Leo on the Late Late, he seems stressed. I’ve great time for him as a leader, he stepped up when Ireland needed someone and tackled the situation. But now it’s time to move on.

ChelseaRentBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

I know we don't have a specific thread dedicated to Tony Holohan but how on earth is this man still in a job!
He should have been fired or walked away after his attempts to cover up the cervical check scandal.
Less than 2 months ago, he wanted the visiting ban in nursing homes to be lifted. The poor residents are been wiped out in high numbers now while Tony goes on TV saying they could never have avoided it getting to the homes.
Even now, they've lifted the restrictions on the elderly before its safe to do so.

If anyone else made such catastrophic errors in their line of work, they would have been relieved of their duties long ago.

I think he's doing alright under absolutely extraordinary pressure.

ChelseaRentBoy

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

So in essence then it will be August before you are allowed drive from say Dublin to Cork to see family?

If at all, nothing mentioned about travel after June.

Pitch n Putt

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

I think he's doing alright under absolutely extraordinary pressure.

Regarding Dr Holohan

I think he’s getting more dangerous by the day. As they say the power is going to his head.

Clearly seen at the briefings with his dismissive attitude to reporters/journalists

Gael23

It says from the 8th of June you can go to other households so I took that to mean visits to family

JRant

the kelt wrote: »

Actually that was another question someone might be able to answer.

What are the variables and the numbers?

I like the plan, sure not everyone will agree with everything but I was critical of the lack of a plan and the plan they laid out was pretty comprehensive if pretty conservative.

But what are the numbers associated with each stage or even the first stage or is that still finger in the air at the time numbers?

For example we keep hearing the numbers aren’t good enough yet with regards to testing, tracing, people in icu, R0 etc etc

So what numbers are good enough?

Surely starting in 2 weeks is subject to numbers being at a certain level that they’re not at today, what numbers are they?

Unfortunately the numbers and targets are whatever NPHET feel like on the day. It's highlighted on page 4 of their roadmap

ZX7R

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know we don't have a specific thread dedicated to Tony Holohan but how on earth is this man still in a job!
He should have been fired or walked away after his attempts to cover up the cervical check scandal.
Less than 2 months ago, he wanted the visiting ban in nursing homes to be lifted. The poor residents are been wiped out in high numbers now while Tony goes on TV saying they could never have avoided it getting to the homes.
Even now, they've lifted the restrictions on the elderly before its safe to do so.

If anyone else made such catastrophic errors in their line of work, they would have been relieved of their duties long ago.

The elderly that are cocooning are aloud out for a walk, while keeping stringent social distancing,they are required to have zero contact with people and to keep cocooning.
This is not a great relaxing of there restrictions.
Also members of the government called for this, not Tony Holohan.

sterz

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Clearly seen at the briefings with his dismissive attitude to reporters/journalists

Not defending the man, and have stopped tuning in to those briefings, but he/they get asked some of the most inane questions so I can understand the response at times.

lawrencesummers

Dumdum McCarthy wrote: »

In fairness to big John he was months ahead of us all with self isolation...he got that right at least and didnt cost us anything.

He has been cocooned in his own reality for a long time now. Hopefully the virus doesn’t catch the Delaney. It doesn’t deserve that. .

rodders999

If the point she was trying to make was that people’s hygiene standards would have to improve in the future then saying “things will never go back to the way they were before” is a fairly clumsy way of going about it.

People who already have good hygiene standards will continue to do so, some with poor standards will improve them as a result of this no doubt but the same idiots who cough and splurt all over the place now will also do it in the future.

Gael23

ZX7R wrote: »

The elderly that are cocooning are aloud out for a walk, while keeping stringent social distancing,they are required to have zero contact with people and to keep cocooning.
This is not a great relaxing of there restrictions.
Also members of the government called for this, not Tony Holohan.

No it’s not but it’s a welcome bit of give.

JRant

stephenjmcd wrote: »

There is that too, would be interesting to see what way a FF led government would want to progress through it. Then again do they say to Leo you can have the first 2 years and he sticks to the plan. Alot to work out.

It'll be interesting to see what the UK plan is, more so in terms of NI, if they move ahead then that'll cause a headache

It gets even more complicated than that. If we are still on strict restrictions long after other countries have opened up then every visitor and person returning back needs to be put into mandatory 2 weeks of quarantine and that includes anyone traveling down from the North. Otherwise, it's completely pointless.

stephenjmcd

kippy wrote: »

Whatever about what you think of her, the statement is 100 percent correct.
I would have thought most people would have expected this anyway.

Well shes not 100% correct though she is, because things will go back to the way they were, people will go to concerts, sporting events etc just with an increased awareness of their own health, you've got a sniffle you dont go to an event, likewise with a cough.
So to say things wont go back to the way they were. They will eventually.

JRant

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well shes not 100% correct though she is, because things will go back to the way they were, people will go to concerts, sporting events etc just with an increased awareness of their own health, you've got a sniffle you dont go to an event, likewise with a cough.
So to say things wont go back to the way they were. They will eventually.

It's a terrible message that keeps getting spouted on RTE especially. The message should be the exact opposite, that we will get back to normal in time. It's the same way they constantly misrepresent the death figures, saying they are COVID deaths when the reality is they are people who dies with COVID.

Gael23

Just read the document in detail. I strongly welcome a plan but this is not a good plan. It offers little hope and is conservative to the extreme. Social distancing cannot possibly be maintained on public transport and in pubs p/restaurants when they reopen.
If I read correctly even phase 5 represents something very far from normal life

Sean 18

Gael23 wrote: »

Just read the document in detail. I strongly welcome a plan but this is not a good plan. It offers little hope and is conservative to the extreme. Social distancing cannot possibly be maintained on public transport and in pubs p/restaurants when they reopen.
If I read correctly even phase 5 represents something very far from normal life

Yes it's not clear what will happen to the over 70s eventually are they allowed into shops in the final phase in August or must they cocoon till a vaccine comes along

JRant

Gael23 wrote: »

Just read the document in detail. I strongly welcome a plan but this is not a good plan. It offers little hope and is conservative to the extreme. Social distancing cannot possibly be maintained on public transport and in pubs p/restaurants when they reopen.
If I read correctly even phase 5 represents something very far from normal life

I'm not sure how you can get people back to work with creches etc still closed.

stephenjmcd

Gael23 wrote: »

Just read the document in detail. I strongly welcome a plan but this is not a good plan. It offers little hope and is conservative to the extreme. Social distancing cannot possibly be maintained on public transport and in pubs p/restaurants when they reopen.
If I read correctly even phase 5 represents something very far from normal life

It's a living document, open to change, various things moving into different phases all depending on the level of infection etc.

Your right social distancing wont be possible on public transport when offices fully reopen in August,.maybe some might keep working from home but it wont be possible on luas, dart etc.

Pubs will operate with it for a good while I would think but give it 2 months before people are comfortable and back in what would have been the "old" routine in pubs. That's what I think anyway. Plus we'll also see how other countries have managed when the time comes which will be a benefit too.

Its 100 days until August 10th, alot could and will happen during that time.

redroisin

Polar101 wrote: »

2 weeks (well, almost) is a long time during this pandemic. In two weeks the number of new cases will probably be quite different to what it is now, and then there will be some data available from countries such as Czechia and Austria on how the lifting of restrictions is going on. So there's no real point in publishing plans now, as there is very little benefit in that and I'm pretty sure none of their plans are finalised anyway.

EXACTLY, they can't see the future or predict how things will progress within this time frame, I can't believe how many are unable to grasp that!

Gael23

JRant wrote: »

I'm not sure how you can get people back to work with creches etc still closed.

For parents yes that’s true but for those that don’t have children and rely on the LUAS or bus to get to work, how will that run at such low capacity. It’s impossible IMO.
Also there will inevitably be a rise in cases between each phase, it’s unclear how much will they accept before they stall or reverse.

gormdubhgorm

My cocooning auld wan is delighted anyway. Was given a glass of wine and a card by the neighbour to celebrate her freedom!

Edit: The neighbour put Caterpillar stickers on the card (cocooning reference)

kippy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well shes not 100% correct though she is, because things will go back to the way they were, people will go to concerts, sporting events etc just with an increased awareness of their own health, you've got a sniffle you dont go to an event, likewise with a cough.
So to say things wont go back to the way they were. They will eventually.

Jesus, things won't go back to they way they were. Things will be different. How much more obvious does that need to be?
You've outlined a couple of the differences in your post yourself.