Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Well, well, what have we here...

gozunda wrote: »

I'd disagree. Never took you for a Boris fan tbh. But no matter. If the hat fits then wear it.

The analogy is closest to home with a small self serving number of individuals suggesting we should throw certain categories of people under the bus and give up even trying to control the rate of infection and stopping the health services been overwhelmed. And yes the analogy stands - i reckon the same would have been cheering on the Vichy republic.

But to remind those who've forgotten again - it's not just the HSE and Ireland. This is a global problem and thankfully not one to be decided by self serving idiots.

No you misunderstood, you and the other poster were the ones extolling the borisesque it’s a war analogy, remember how you said it was a good analogy?? Remember?

So it’s actually you and the other poster obviously getting your cue from Boris and his ilk seeing as you said it was a good analogy. Remember you said it was a good analogy?? It’s earlier this morning, a few posts ago, you said it was good.

I don’t believe in not trying to control the rate of infection at all, I believe restrictions are necessary but I also do not have trust in the HSE that they are handling this well, the same HSE that were in the last election trumped us as being a failure by the vast majority.

But it’s not a war, even though remember you said that analogy was great, it’s something we actually have to learn to live with whether you want to accept that or not, it’s a fact. Every life that can be saved should be but there is more than Coronavirus killing people and the lasting affect of this will also be killed by other things other than Coronavirus, that’s the balance.

Apparently Leo will be doing his speech tonight... and then will be on the LLS with Tubridy. I feel a little bit sick at the thought of it

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's only 9:20 as I type this (the slllooooowwww performance of the site will not reflect that ) but this is already a contender for "Bizarre post of the day" - WW2, Nazi's, genocide and surrender monkeys - all in the one post! :rolleyes:I see we need another dose of facts to counter the hysteria:
- The virus is going nowhere for the forseeable. We have to adapt to this reality and live alongside it
- Most people won't suffer any lasting effects and may not realise they even had it
- We can protect the vulnerable without sacrificing the (mental) health of others
- We've already hit the objectives of the lockdown: get people's attention [check], give the health service time to ramp up [check], reduce the spread [check]. Further lockdown now mean we move from damage control into collateral damage
- We cannot maintain current levels of (welfare) expenditure indefinitely with a collapsing economy.. and those are just the headline points. There's many more that have been made on this thread without resorting to hyperbole and name-calling like the above post.
No-one is suggesting a return to normality overnight. No one is saying we should just let the elderly/vulnerable die - but there IS (like it or not) more than just immediate medical concerns to consider here and those concerns are just as important for the health of not just the country, but EVERY citizen in it.

I suggest your own post would fit the bizarre reply of the day category quite well considering you must have missed most of the bs that comment was in reply to

Unfortunately those rattling the cage are not dealing with your 'facts'

Let's look at some of the absolute horse****e and hysteria which had been put forward by some

From this thread - it has been suggested

- that since there are only a few deaths in the under 40s and it's only affecting over 70s that all restrictions should be removed immediately .

Ignoring the fact that younger people also get sick and end up in hospital in significant numbers. Oh and the important fact that the rate of infection will climb exponentially

- That the vulnerable are on 'borrowed time' and would die anyway.

And yes I'm sure that those that packed the trains with certain categories in Ww2 said the same

- That the disease is a political conspiracy that has put young people who it does not infect under house arrest

That doesn't even deserve comment tbh.

I could go on but those are just some of the headline points. There's many more ridiculous and bizarre comments that have been made on this thread that indeed continuously resort to hyperbole and name-calling . If anyone followed suit to that it is simply to match the tone of those comments.

And they we are. Unfortunately we are not dealing with rational responses by many on this thread.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/agri-food/concern-meat-plants-could-emerge-as-next-covid-blackspots-as-one-closes-and-others-understood-to-have-clusters-39172747.html

We'll all be vegetarian shortly

Yesterday, the Minister for Agriculture confirmed in the Dail that his Department is aware of six clusters, five in processing plants and one in a deboning plant.

Interesting. I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in the claim that there are hundreds of cases in one plant.

But overall it certainly seems to be an issue. Why meat processing and not other forms of manufacturing? Is it to do with the proximity of staff? The fact that they're handling raw meat? Or is there a general lack of adherence to hygiene guidelines?

I'd have no objection to removing the 2km restriction, but keeping the social distancing.

As bad and lick arse like rte have been with the government through this, it was nice to see some guest on primetime challenge the gombeen auto reply TD that was rolled out with the new "we've saved 3,500 lives with this lockdown" nonsense tagline they're using. He pointed out you can't make statements like that when you don't yet know the cost of these measures in relation to deaths down the line.

Dan o Brien and Ivan Yates were a breath of fresh air even though what they were alluding to was grim as fvck. The immunologist on with them seemed in full agreement that economic health needs to become a much larger part of the current decision making process.

seamus wrote: »

Interesting. I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in the claim that there are hundreds of cases in one plant.

But overall it certainly seems to be an issue. Why meat processing and not other forms of manufacturing? Is it to do with the proximity of staff? The fact that they're handling raw meat? Or is there a general lack of adherence to hygiene guidelines?

I'm about 15km from one, it's a mess was talking to one of the guys working there yesterday, 84 confirmed as of yesterday, 200 staff out, a lot still waiting on results and some still to be tested, locals are going nuts as these guys aren't staying indoors and are out and about in shops.

ixoy wrote: »

Most people want to reduce/alter the restrictions, not remove them in a manner that should prevent the health service being overwhelmed and yet also begin to rebuilt a semblance of normality. Like other countries are doing.

Haven't been able to post in a while because boards is crawling and impossible to log in at times, but this post hits the nail on the head.
Nobody is saying lift everything straight away, that's just crazy, people want a step by step reopening, now I know we'll get the "plan" this evening but by all accounts it's a plan with no dates assigned to it, not exactly giving confidence to business. Other European countries are way ahead of us now. Others could be back to a resemblance of normal life in July and we'll probably still only have limited places open. Its becoming more and more of a trade off with public health and the economy.

CMO said yesterday they were worried about people making decisions ahead of them, like people did when taking the decision to close businesses before being recommended. Sorry but that horse has bolted, most have already decided to reopen and how to operate their businesses.

We were asked to flatten the curve and give the HSE time to get their house in order, we flattened it but testing, tracing etc still an absolute mess, that's not the fault of the general public.

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

As bad and lick arse like rte have been with the government through this, it was nice to see some guest on primetime challenge the gombeen auto reply TD that was rolled out with the new "we've saved 3,500 lives with this lockdown" nonsense tagline they're using. He pointed out you can't make statements like that when you don't yet know the cost of these measures in relation to deaths down the line.

Mathemathical scientists know that even random (accidental, undirected) errors multiply very rapidly.

Models which resulted in wrong predictions about numbers of cases cannot be used to say that x number of lives were saved.

The model that caused 'lockdown fever' is utterly discredited:
https://www.aier.org/article/imperial-college-model-applied-to-sweden-yields-preposterous-results/amp/

Deferring to the advice of doctors is abdicating political responsibility. Banal cliches about 'lives being more important than money' are politicians avoiding their real job - to balance competing interests:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/30/coronavirus-shutdown-altitude-ethics-223569

gozunda wrote: »

A good analogy. There are those repetively pushing the dictate that 'we have to live with disease' or wtte, that only those living on "borrowed time" will die and that the economy is the most important thing yada yada yada

Not disimilar to those who argued for Frances capitulation to Germany during ww2. The same who supported that living with the enemy was the only solution, that only certain people including Jewish citizens and those deemed unfit would die and this will save the economy.

Yeah that worked lads. I never thought I'd see the day that Ireland was populated by similar surrender monkey types. But I suppose it not that surprising tbh. The same seem to exist in all societies. Things evidently dont change.

And the alternative is? Sacrifice our economy for years to come for an illness whose impact is slight for 90% of the population, at least. Yes that makes sense.

Your WW2 analogies are wide of the mark. No-one is sacrificing anyone. Those in vulnerable categories should be protected and cocooned properly, which clearly didn't happen in many cases in nursing homes and not just in Ireland.

The whole lockdown approach was wrong from the start. It was too broadbrush, protecting the healthy mostly and leaving huge gaps such as for nursing homes and also borders. It was never going to be effective.