SNNUS wrote: » The balanced posts here all state that we need to protect our elderly and vulnerable as number 1. But when the lock down forever cure people come along it's the first thing they say that they are being thrown under the bus, no compassion etc. Read what people are actually saying. It's ok to have a different view, it's a democracy but it's all tabloid reactions to things that were never suggested. No. 1 protect elderly and vulnerable This can be done without locking away until a vaccine comes along. Livelihoods need to be saved too.
Pitch n Putt wrote: » You should probably read the last line of my original post again before you lose the marbles.
gozunda wrote: » I'd disagree. Never took you for a Boris fan tbh. But no matter. If the hat fits then wear it. The analogy is closest to home with a small self serving number of individuals suggesting we should throw certain categories of people under the bus and give up even trying to control the rate of infection and stopping the health services been overwhelmed. And yes the analogy stands - i reckon the same would have been cheering on the Vichy republic. But to remind those who've forgotten again - it's not just the HSE and Ireland. This is a global problem and thankfully not one to be decided by self serving idiots.
Longing wrote: » Agreed my friend. But no way were there going to lift restrictions when numbers are higher now before they were introduced no matter were those numbers are been reported. I agree. Lets get numbers down lower and start opening up slowly. But we need better way of working round nursing homes.
_Kaiser_ wrote: » It's only 9:20 as I type this (the slllooooowwww performance of the site will not reflect that ) but this is already a contender for "Bizarre post of the day" - WW2, Nazi's, genocide and surrender monkeys - all in the one post! :rolleyes:I see we need another dose of facts to counter the hysteria: - The virus is going nowhere for the forseeable. We have to adapt to this reality and live alongside it - Most people won't suffer any lasting effects and may not realise they even had it - We can protect the vulnerable without sacrificing the (mental) health of others - We've already hit the objectives of the lockdown: get people's attention [check], give the health service time to ramp up [check], reduce the spread [check]. Further lockdown now mean we move from damage control into collateral damage - We cannot maintain current levels of (welfare) expenditure indefinitely with a collapsing economy.. and those are just the headline points. There's many more that have been made on this thread without resorting to hyperbole and name-calling like the above post. No-one is suggesting a return to normality overnight. No one is saying we should just let the elderly/vulnerable die - but there IS (like it or not) more than just immediate medical concerns to consider here and those concerns are just as important for the health of not just the country, but EVERY citizen in it.
Deleted User wrote: » The old and unhealthly cannot not live isolated from the rest of society indefinitely. And vast numbers of people who are living with pre-existing conditions also need to provide for themselves and their families
drunkmonkey wrote: » https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/agri-food/concern-meat-plants-could-emerge-as-next-covid-blackspots-as-one-closes-and-others-understood-to-have-clusters-39172747.html We'll all be vegetarian shortly Yesterday, the Minister for Agriculture confirmed in the Dail that his Department is aware of six clusters, five in processing plants and one in a deboning plant.
growleaves wrote: » Ah but on March 27th Leo Varadkar warned of "Roughly 30% increase in cases every day. That is inevitable. It cannot be stopped." It was against these projected increases that the lockdown was instituted - and the numbers are lower than these. Also the numbers are highly concentrated within localised clusters (nursing homes) as has been said many times before but it bears repeating.
seamus wrote: » Interesting. I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in the claim that there are hundreds of cases in one plant. But overall it certainly seems to be an issue. Why meat processing and not other forms of manufacturing? Is it to do with the proximity of staff? The fact that they're handling raw meat? Or is there a general lack of adherence to hygiene guidelines?
ixoy wrote: » Most people want to reduce/alter the restrictions, not remove them in a manner that should prevent the health service being overwhelmed and yet also begin to rebuilt a semblance of normality. Like other countries are doing.
JoeExotic81 wrote: » As bad and lick arse like rte have been with the government through this, it was nice to see some guest on primetime challenge the gombeen auto reply TD that was rolled out with the new "we've saved 3,500 lives with this lockdown" nonsense tagline they're using. He pointed out you can't make statements like that when you don't yet know the cost of these measures in relation to deaths down the line.
the kelt wrote: » No you misunderstood, you and the other poster were the ones extolling the borisesque it’s a war analogy, remember how you said it was a good analogy?? Remember?So it’s actually you and the other poster obviously getting your cue from Boris and his ilk seeing as you said it was a good analogy. Remember you said it was a good analogy?? It’s earlier this morning, a few posts ago, you said it was good. don’t believe in not trying to control the rate of infection at all, I believe restrictions are necessary but I also do not have trust in the HSE that they are handling this well, the same HSE that were in the last election trumped us as being a failure by the vast majority. But it’s not a war, even though remember you said that analogy was great, it’s something we actually have to learn to live with whether you want to accept that or not, it’s a fact. Every life that can be saved should be but there is more than Coronavirus killing people and the lasting affect of this will also be killed by other things other than Coronavirus, that’s the balance.
Pitch n Putt wrote: » Ok fair enough so we will just pull down the blinds and close the whole country while we wait for the magic vaccine that may never appear. It’s fairly simple. The virus is here and not going anywhere. We have to move on. The healthy have to be allowed to LIVE and the vulnerable have to protect themselves and be protected Nobody here is on about sacrificing these people but we have to progress before there’s nothing left to move on with. And that day is fast approaching with this constant extending of the so called lockdown.
stephenjmcd wrote: » Haven't been able to post in a while because boards is crawling and impossible to log in at times, but this post hits the nail on the head. Nobody is saying lift everything straight away, that's just crazy, people want a step by step reopening, now I know we'll get the "plan" this evening but by all accounts it's a plan with no dates assigned to it, not exactly giving confidence to business. Other European countries are way ahead of us now. Others could be back to a resemblance of normal life in July and we'll probably still only have limited places open. Its becoming more and more of a trade off with public health and the economy. CMO said yesterday they were worried about people making decisions ahead of them, like people did when taking the decision to close businesses before being recommended. Sorry but that horse has bolted, most have already decided to reopen and how to operate their businesses. We were asked to flatten the curve and give the HSE time to get their house in order, we flattened it but testing, tracing etc still an absolute mess, that's not the fault of the general public.
growleaves wrote: » Ah but on March 27th Leo Varadkar warned of "Roughly 30% increase in cases every day. That is inevitable. It cannot be stopped."It was against these projected increases that the lockdown was instituted - and the numbers are lower than these. Also the numbers are highly concentrated within localised clusters (nursing homes) as has been said many times before but it bears repeating.
growleaves wrote: » Mathemathical scientists know that even random (accidental, undirected) errors multiply very rapidly. Models which resulted in wrong predictions about numbers of cases cannot be used to say that x number of lives were saved.
So.. the lockdown has done nothing? Are you genuinely posting that?
gozunda wrote: » A good analogy. There are those repetively pushing the dictate that 'we have to live with disease' or wtte, that only those living on "borrowed time" will die and that the economy is the most important thing yada yada yada Not disimilar to those who argued for Frances capitulation to Germany during ww2. The same who supported that living with the enemy was the only solution, that only certain people including Jewish citizens and those deemed unfit would die and this will save the economy. Yeah that worked lads. I never thought I'd see the day that Ireland was populated by similar surrender monkey types. But I suppose it not that surprising tbh. The same seem to exist in all societies. Things evidently dont change.
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