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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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growleaves

Longing wrote: »

Agreed my friend. But no way were there going to lift restrictions when numbers are higher now before they were introduced no matter were those numbers are been reported. I agree. Lets get numbers down lower and start opening up slowly. But we need better way of working round nursing homes.

Ah but on March 27th Leo Varadkar warned of "Roughly 30% increase in cases every day. That is inevitable. It cannot be stopped."

It was against these projected increases that the lockdown was instituted - and the numbers are lower than these.

Also the numbers are highly concentrated within localised clusters (nursing homes) as has been said many times before but it bears repeating.

ELM327

I'd have no objection to removing the 2km restriction, but keeping the social distancing.

timmy_mallet

drunkmonkey wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/agri-food/concern-meat-plants-could-emerge-as-next-covid-blackspots-as-one-closes-and-others-understood-to-have-clusters-39172747.html

We'll all be vegetarian shortly

Yesterday, the Minister for Agriculture confirmed in the Dail that his Department is aware of six clusters, five in processing plants and one in a deboning plant.

If there're positives from this, that will be one.

seamus

drunkmonkey wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/agri-food/concern-meat-plants-could-emerge-as-next-covid-blackspots-as-one-closes-and-others-understood-to-have-clusters-39172747.html

We'll all be vegetarian shortly

Yesterday, the Minister for Agriculture confirmed in the Dail that his Department is aware of six clusters, five in processing plants and one in a deboning plant.

Interesting. I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in the claim that there are hundreds of cases in one plant.

But overall it certainly seems to be an issue. Why meat processing and not other forms of manufacturing? Is it to do with the proximity of staff? The fact that they're handling raw meat? Or is there a general lack of adherence to hygiene guidelines?

Pitch n Putt

Deleted User wrote: »

The old and unhealthly cannot not live isolated from the rest of society indefinitely. And vast numbers of people who are living with pre-existing conditions also need to provide for themselves and their families

Ok fair enough so we will just pull down the blinds and close the whole country while we wait for the magic vaccine that may never appear.

It’s fairly simple. The virus is here and not going anywhere. We have to move on. The healthy have to be allowed to LIVE and the vulnerable have to protect themselves and be protected

Nobody here is on about sacrificing these people but we have to progress before there’s nothing left to move on with.

And that day is fast approaching with this constant extending of the so called lockdown.

gozunda

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's only 9:20 as I type this (the slllooooowwww performance of the site will not reflect that ) but this is already a contender for "Bizarre post of the day" - WW2, Nazi's, genocide and surrender monkeys - all in the one post! :rolleyes:I see we need another dose of facts to counter the hysteria:
- The virus is going nowhere for the forseeable. We have to adapt to this reality and live alongside it
- Most people won't suffer any lasting effects and may not realise they even had it
- We can protect the vulnerable without sacrificing the (mental) health of others
- We've already hit the objectives of the lockdown: get people's attention [check], give the health service time to ramp up [check], reduce the spread [check]. Further lockdown now mean we move from damage control into collateral damage
- We cannot maintain current levels of (welfare) expenditure indefinitely with a collapsing economy.. and those are just the headline points. There's many more that have been made on this thread without resorting to hyperbole and name-calling like the above post.
No-one is suggesting a return to normality overnight. No one is saying we should just let the elderly/vulnerable die - but there IS (like it or not) more than just immediate medical concerns to consider here and those concerns are just as important for the health of not just the country, but EVERY citizen in it.

I suggest your own post would fit the bizarre reply of the day category quite well considering you must have missed most of the bs that comment was in reply to

Unfortunately those rattling the cage are not dealing with your 'facts'

Let's look at some of the absolute horse****e and hysteria which had been put forward by some

From this thread - it has been suggested

- that since there are only a few deaths in the under 40s and it's only affecting over 70s that all restrictions should be removed immediately .

Ignoring the fact that younger people also get sick and end up in hospital in significant numbers. Oh and the important fact that the rate of infection will climb exponentially

- That the vulnerable are on 'borrowed time' and would die anyway.

And yes I'm sure that those that packed the trains with certain categories in Ww2 said the same

- That the disease is a political conspiracy that has put young people who it does not infect under house arrest

That doesn't even deserve comment tbh.

I could go on but those are just some of the headline points. There's many more ridiculous and bizarre comments that have been made on this thread that indeed continuously resort to hyperbole and name-calling . If anyone followed suit to that it is simply to match the tone of those comments.

And they we are. Unfortunately we are not dealing with rational responses by many on this thread.

drunkmonkey

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/agri-food/concern-meat-plants-could-emerge-as-next-covid-blackspots-as-one-closes-and-others-understood-to-have-clusters-39172747.html

We'll all be vegetarian shortly

Yesterday, the Minister for Agriculture confirmed in the Dail that his Department is aware of six clusters, five in processing plants and one in a deboning plant.

JoeA3

Apparently Leo will be doing his speech tonight... and then will be on the LLS with Tubridy. I feel a little bit sick at the thought of it

RoryMac

Longing wrote: »

Agreed my friend. But no way were there going to lift restrictions when numbers are higher now before they were introduced no matter were those numbers are been reported. I agree. Lets get numbers down lower and start opening up slowly. But we need better way of working round nursing homes.

Numbers are higher due to the roll out of testing in nursing & care homes and the fact that testing numbers have ramped up hugely since mid March.

The r0 number is where the HSE want it to be so community infection has dropped hugely so resources should be deployed to protect the at risk areas while allowing a phased relaxing of the restrictions.

the kelt

gozunda wrote: »

I'd disagree. Never took you for a Boris fan tbh. But no matter. If the hat fits then wear it.

The analogy is closest to home with a small self serving number of individuals suggesting we should throw certain categories of people under the bus and give up even trying to control the rate of infection and stopping the health services been overwhelmed. And yes the analogy stands - i reckon the same would have been cheering on the Vichy republic.

But to remind those who've forgotten again - it's not just the HSE and Ireland. This is a global problem and thankfully not one to be decided by self serving idiots.

No you misunderstood, you and the other poster were the ones extolling the borisesque it’s a war analogy, remember how you said it was a good analogy?? Remember?

So it’s actually you and the other poster obviously getting your cue from Boris and his ilk seeing as you said it was a good analogy. Remember you said it was a good analogy?? It’s earlier this morning, a few posts ago, you said it was good.

I don’t believe in not trying to control the rate of infection at all, I believe restrictions are necessary but I also do not have trust in the HSE that they are handling this well, the same HSE that were in the last election trumped us as being a failure by the vast majority.

But it’s not a war, even though remember you said that analogy was great, it’s something we actually have to learn to live with whether you want to accept that or not, it’s a fact. Every life that can be saved should be but there is more than Coronavirus killing people and the lasting affect of this will also be killed by other things other than Coronavirus, that’s the balance.

[Deleted User]

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

You should probably read the last line of my original post again before you lose the marbles.

The old and unhealthly cannot not live isolated from the rest of society indefinitely. And vast numbers of people who are living with pre-existing conditions also need to provide for themselves and their families

[Deleted User]

Due to the problems with the slowness of Boards.ie in the last 48 hours I’ve stopped commenting here and indeed reading except for the last 2 pages.

I’ve also stopped commenting due to the abusive nature of some posters.

I’ll just say the following:

If this lockdown continues after Monday I’ll be living my life as I see fit myself.
I live alone. I’ve been on my own and seen nobody since 2nd week in March apart from 4 days work which has ended. I’m no longer going to stick to 2KM exercise.
I’ve bought a tent and will travel further for a few trips.

Harvey Norman are delivering a new washing machine tomorrow.

Water filtration company are coming to service my system on Tuesday

I has all my windows washed by a local company yesterday.

The country is silently and slowly getting back to some activity even in a small way. I applaud that.

For every keyboard warrior here shouting down people who are questioning these lockdowns, there are many of us now who are silently planning on getting back to some kind of (new) normal! They’re just not on Boards.

timmy_mallet

SNNUS wrote: »

The balanced posts here all state that we need to protect our elderly and vulnerable as number 1. But when the lock down forever cure people come along it's the first thing they say that they are being thrown under the bus, no compassion etc. Read what people are actually saying. It's ok to have a different view, it's a democracy but it's all tabloid reactions to things that were never suggested.

No. 1 protect elderly and vulnerable

This can be done without locking away until a vaccine comes along. Livelihoods need to be saved too.

Their version of democracy is save the 15% at the expense of the 85%.

drunkmonkey

Well, well, what have we here...

JoeA3

UrbanFret wrote: »

ls it likely construction will recommence , self builds etc?

Many never really stopped.

Longing

SNNUS wrote: »

Ok that is fair enough but a lot of people never knew they even had the disease so a casualty is a bit strong.

Yea a bit strong i would agree. Maybe thinking off myself. Over covid 19. But still have bad pain in lung. Further investigation needed

Longing

easypazz wrote: »

How do you class an infected person as a casualty?

There could be 100000 infected people in the country who have had this and not even know it.

How are they a casualty?

Trying to pretend this is the same as a military war is weird TBH.

Some people watching too much CNN.

Dont watch the news. Never heard of CNN whats that.

Breezin

SNNUS wrote: »

The balanced posts here all state that we need to protect our elderly and vulnerable as number 1. But when the lock down forever cure people come along it's the first thing they say that they are being thrown under the bus, no compassion etc. Read what people are actually saying. It's ok to have a different view, it's a democracy but it's all tabloid reactions to things that were never suggested.

No. 1 protect elderly and vulnerable

This can be done without locking away until a vaccine comes along. Livelihoods need to be saved too.

People like black and white answers. Deconstructing the lockdown appalls many because they are wedded to simple solutions.

Longing

SNNUS wrote: »

The balanced posts here all state that we need to protect our elderly and vulnerable as number 1. But when the lock down forever cure people come along it's the first thing they say that they are being thrown under the bus, no compassion etc. Read what people are actually saying. It's ok to have a different view, it's a democracy but it's all tabloid reactions to things that were never suggested.

No. 1 protect elderly and vulnerable

This can be done without locking away until a vaccine comes along. Livelihoods need to be saved too.

Agreed my friend. But no way were there going to lift restrictions when numbers are higher now before they were introduced no matter were those numbers are been reported. I agree. Lets get numbers down lower and start opening up slowly. But we need better way of working round nursing homes.

ixoy

gozunda wrote: »

And yet you seem to want to throw the same out the window and get rid of the restictions which are helping to reduce the rate of infection and stopping the health service been overwhelmed!

Most people want to reduce/alter the restrictions, not remove them in a manner that should prevent the health service being overwhelmed and yet also begin to rebuilt a semblance of normality. Like other countries are doing.

easypazz

Longing wrote: »

Originally Posted by SNNUS View Post
A casualty is a death??????

You'll hear the word casualty used often for someone killed or injured. But in this case infected/Injured.

How do you class an infected person as a casualty?

There could be 100000 infected people in the country who have had this and not even know it.

How are they a casualty?

Trying to pretend this is the same as a military war is weird TBH.

Some people watching too much CNN.

SNNUS

Longing wrote: »

Originally Posted by SNNUS View Post
A casualty is a death??????

You'll hear the word casualty used often for someone killed or injured. But in this case infected/Injured.

Ok that is fair enough but a lot of people never knew they even had the disease so a casualty is a bit strong.

SNNUS

The balanced posts here all state that we need to protect our elderly and vulnerable as number 1. But when the lock down forever cure people come along it's the first thing they say that they are being thrown under the bus, no compassion etc. Read what people are actually saying. It's ok to have a different view, it's a democracy but it's all tabloid reactions to things that were never suggested.

No. 1 protect elderly and vulnerable

This can be done without locking away until a vaccine comes along. Livelihoods need to be saved too.

Longing

Originally Posted by SNNUS View Post
A casualty is a death??????

You'll hear the word casualty used often for someone killed or injured. But in this case infected/Injured.

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

Nobody is disputing the bit I have highlighted in bold.
You are in full meltdown mode now.

Really no one? This thread is littered with such idiotic denials.

And yet you seem to want to throw the same out the window and get rid of the restictions which are helping to reduce the rate of infection and stopping the health service been overwhelmed!

Is it usual to argue out of both sides of your mouth?

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

I'd disagree. Never took you for a Boris fan tbh. But no matter. If the hat fits then wear it.

The analogy is closest to home with a small self serving number of individuals suggesting we should throw certain categories of people under the bus and give up even trying to control the rate of infection and stopping the health services been overwhelmed. And yes the analogy stands - i reckon the same would have been cheering on the Vichy republic.

But to remind those who've forgotten again - it's not just the HSE and Ireland. This is a global problem and thankfully not one to be decided by self serving idiots.

Nobody is suggesting that.

You are really struggling now.

Penfailed

SNNUS wrote: »

A casualty is a death??????

Since when?

Pitch n Putt

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not just sacrifice all the vulnerable people then if that's your view? A sort of Logan's Run for the million plus people with pre-exisiting conditions or who are elderly.

You should probably read the last line of my original post again before you lose the marbles.

[Deleted User]

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Two sides to your great war analogy

Wouldn’t like to be going to war with people that are afraid to fight either eg.

Stay at home in their kitchen whilst your country goes down the drain against an enemy that’s of minor danger to healthy people.

Why not just sacrifice all the vulnerable people then if that's your view? A sort of Logan's Run for the million plus people with pre-exisiting conditions or who are elderly.

Penfailed

begbysback wrote: »

I’d be very surprised if they were limited to 30 mins exercise per day.

We aren't either. The only exercise restriction is within 2km.