The Permanent Job Losses Thread

GazzaL · 01-05-2020 8:11am #1

Companies of all sizes are going to collapse as a result of the lockdown. Huge numbers of temporary job losses will become permanent, and there will be a high number of long-term unemployed as a result.

Companies who had issues coming into this crisis are in big trouble. We've already seen some big names like Debenhams and Oasis go into liquidation/administration.

Many healthy businesses will also collapse as they can't sustain the costs of continuing with these lockdown measures, or they will let go of staff due to reduced demand for their products and services. This is most unfortunate, because most busineses could re-open safely tomorrow. SMEs have been sourcing hand sanitiser, PPE, and implementing social distancing plans since before the lockdown and can operate as safely, if not more safely, than supermarkets and other businesses which have been allowed to continue trading.

12,000 jobs are being cut in British Airways, and we can expect job losses in Aer Lingus too who are also part of IAG. Ryanair, who have one of the healthiest balance sheets in the business, have warned this morning of 3000 job cuts.

Here's a graph of forecast permanent job losses.

Thanks Leo. Thanks Tony.

kippy · 01-05-2020 8:19am

GazzaL wrote: »

Companies of all sizes are going to collapse as a result of the lockdown. Huge numbers of temporary job losses will become permanent, and there will be a high number of long-term unemployed as a result.

Companies who had issues coming into this crisis are in big trouble. We've already seen some big names like Debenhams and Oasis go into liquidation/administration.

Many healthy businesses will also collapse as they can't sustain the costs of continuing with these lockdown measures, or they will let go of staff due to reduced demand for their products and services. This is most unfortunate, because most busineses could re-open safely tomorrow. SMEs have been sourcing hand sanitiser, PPE, and implementing social distancing plans since before the lockdown and can operate as safely, if not more safely, than supermarkets and other businesses which have been allowed to continue trading.

12,000 jobs are being cut in British Airways, and we can expect job losses in Aer Lingus too who are also part of IAG. Ryanair, who have one of the healthiest balance sheets in the business, have warned this morning of 3000 job cuts.

Here's a graph of forecast permanent job losses.

Thanks Leo. Thanks Tony.

How simplistic a view on this you have.
You don't think that the unrestricted spread of the virus wouldn't have caused worse job losses amongst other things?

You reckon you can blame Job losses in airlines and multinational companies on Irish actions?

01-05-2020 8:19am

Thanks Leo?

Why precisely is this Leo’s fault?

fits · 01-05-2020 8:19am

I’d rather weather the financial storm for a year or two than be dead.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 8:27am

Professor McConkey during the week on Morning Ireland stated health and the economy cannot be pitted against each other. He stated wealth generation is necessary for health. You need a healthy economy to be able to pay for all the services we consume.
I find the disconnect people have from how important the economy is distrubing. Do people seriously believe the lack of funding for services after the financial crash didn't result in premature deaths?

GazzaL · 01-05-2020 8:28am

kippy wrote: »

How simplistic a view on this you have.
You don't think that the unrestricted spread of the virus wouldn't have caused worse job losses amongst other things?

You reckon you can blame Job losses in airlines and multinational companies on Irish actions?

We need to allow economic activity to resume while using social distancing. We've hit our containment targets, R0 has been at 0.5 for weeks. An indefinite lockdown, not allowing people to see their families, forcing companies out of business, and not treating non-COVID patients will result in exceptional morbidity. I have talked about "companies of all sizes", not just multinationals.

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks Leo?

Why precisely is this Leo’s fault?

There isn't sufficient consideration being given to the economic devastation that is taking place. In the list of 5 key priorities, it's debatable whether it's covered under "Risk of secondary morbidity due to the restrictions themselves".

fits wrote: »

I’d rather weather the financial storm for a year or two than be dead.

The longer the lockdown continues, the bigger the negative impact. People will be trying to pick up the pieces for a lot longer than a year or two!

ceadaoin. · 01-05-2020 8:30am

fits wrote: »

I’d rather weather the financial storm for a year or two than be dead.

99%+ of people who are infected with covid19 will survive. I'm not sure the same is going to be said about the economic and emotional consequences of an extended lockdown. Not everyone is going to be able to "weather the storm". Good for you if you can, I can too, but I am very concerned about those who can't.

This virtue signaling about how anyone who is beginning to doubt the merits of quarantining healthy people is a selfish arsehole who is directly responsible for people dying is becoming tiresome. Its bordering on emotional blackmail at this stage. Think logically.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 8:33am

fits wrote: »

I’d rather weather the financial storm for a year or two than be dead.

Considering the fatality rate unless you have an underlying condition you will have a greater chance of dying from something else in the next year or two rather than Covid.

GazzaL · 01-05-2020 8:37am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Professor McConkey during the week on Morning Ireland stated health and the economy cannot be pitted against each other. He stated wealth generation is necessary for health. You need a healthy economy to be able to pay for all the services we consume.
I find the disconnect people have from how important the economy is distrubing. Do people seriously believe the lack of funding for services after the financial crash didn't result in premature deaths?

Some people have the memory of a goldfish. How long did it take everyone to feel the recovery from the last recession? Many of these people would have been banging their drums about health and housing a few months ago. Good luck funding either of those after this.

01-05-2020 8:40am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Considering the fatality rate unless you have an underlying condition you will have a greater chance of dying from something else in the next year or two rather than Covid.

If you need a procedure for some other reason and arrive at a hospital overwhelmed by cases because we open up too early you may die sooner than you expect

Lurching · 01-05-2020 8:40am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Professor McConkey during the week on Morning Ireland stated health and the economy cannot be pitted against each other. He stated wealth generation is necessary for health. You need a healthy economy to be able to pay for all the services we consume.
I find the disconnect people have from how important the economy is distrubing. Do people seriously believe the lack of funding for services after the financial crash didn't result in premature deaths?

It's chicken and egg. Without health, there is no economy.

GazzaL · 01-05-2020 8:42am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you need a procedure for some other reason and arrive at a hospital overwhelmed by cases because we open up too early you may die sooner than you expect

The hospitals aren't overwhelmed. Our ICUs are only at 33% capacity. We're paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals 75% empty. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/calls-to-revisit-private-hospital-deal-as-beds-lying-empty-despite-115m-per-month-cost-to-taxpayer-996616.html

Ordinary man · 01-05-2020 8:46am

GazzaL wrote: »

The hospitals aren't overwhelmed. Our ICUs are only at 33% capacity. We're paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals 75% empty. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/calls-to-revisit-private-hospital-deal-as-beds-lying-empty-despite-115m-per-month-cost-to-taxpayer-996616.html

all that applies during the lockdown, do you think it would stay the same if restrictions were all lifted?

road_high · 01-05-2020 8:46am

Going to be a very busy thread unfortunately. Some people think this is some kind of free holiday. Business that would never have gone under even in past recessions will go to the wall.
Debenhams are the most obvious to date, airlines and hospitality have had major job losses already.
Many thought on closure mid March it would only be a two or three week thing. It’s unprecedented now to be heading for two months of closure and unsustainable

Del Griffith · 01-05-2020 8:47am

fits wrote: »

I’d rather weather the financial storm for a year or two than be dead.

A year or two?! Try a generation or two of repaying this if the economy isn't restarted this summer

01-05-2020 8:48am

GazzaL wrote: »

Some people have the memory of a goldfish. How long did it take everyone to feel the recovery from the last recession? Many of these people would have been banging their drums about health and housing a few months ago. Good luck funding either of those after this.

How long does it take to recover from dying?

There will also be vast amount of liquidity available from global central banks to stimulate recovery in all areas. This is not like the 2008 global financial crisis in that in the bailout good money went after bad to stop global default on debt and essentially plugged a black hole. This time there are viable businesses and projects in need of liquidity to return to previous state as the latent demand is still there.

The economy is not a zero sum game. We will be borrowing from the future and hoping long term we can grow our way back

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 8:49am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you need a procedure for some other reason and arrive at a hospital overwhelmed by cases because we open up too early you may die sooner than you expect

My future daughter in law had a life changing operation cancelled due to this crisis, yet private hospitals are at 1/3 capacity. 400+ private hospital consultants/surgeons sitting at home twiddling their thumbs due to contract hurdles. So gone tell me how important is to keep the country locked done. Procedures have been cancelled to keep beds free, how many lives will be lost because that policy or far worse outcomes to a condition because it is not being dealt with now.
Only yesterday I read a poster being guilted on his behaviour that could cause him to occupy a bed instead of it being available for a Covid patient.

01-05-2020 8:50am

GazzaL wrote: »

The hospitals aren't overwhelmed. Our ICUs are only at 33% capacity. We're paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals 75% empty. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/calls-to-revisit-private-hospital-deal-as-beds-lying-empty-despite-115m-per-month-cost-to-taxpayer-996616.html

Why do you think the hospitals aren't overwhelmed?

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 8:51am

Lurching wrote: »

It's chicken and egg. Without health, there is no economy.

It's not a chicken and egg sorry. Commerce is what allows one have good health.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 8:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why do you think the hospitals aren't overwhelmed?

Because they stuffed the elderly into nursing homes/ long term care facilities and now that is where nearly all the clusters are and most of the deaths.

ceadaoin. · 01-05-2020 8:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you need a procedure for some other reason and arrive at a hospital overwhelmed by cases because we open up too early you may die sooner than you expect

In the past, the winter vomiting bug has caused hospitals to become overwhelmed in Ireland. This hasn't. The majority of Healthcare systems haven't come anywhere near being overwhelmed because of covid19. People aren't receiving other life saving treatment though. People are avoiding going to hospitals when they probably desperately need to. Where I live, many hospital workers are having their hours reduced or being laid off. In the midst of a pandemic that will supposedly flood hospitals, they are actually emptier than ever

01-05-2020 8:54am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Professor McConkey during the week on Morning Ireland stated health and the economy cannot be pitted against each other. He stated wealth generation is necessary for health. You need a healthy economy to be able to pay for all the services we consume.
I find the disconnect people have from how important the economy is distrubing. Do people seriously believe the lack of funding for services after the financial crash didn't result in premature deaths?

McConkey has also said we should take a bit more short term pain with a deeper lockdown than we have now, so that when we do reopen sectors of the economy we can do more and have significantly less risk of yo-yo ing

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 8:56am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

McConkey has also said we should take a bit more short term pain with a deeper lockdown than we have now, so that when we do reopen sectors of the economy we can do more and have significantly less risk of yo-yo ing

A deepening lockdown would not be tolerated now, that horse has bolted since early March. A yo yoing of restrictions, not going to be tolerated either.

01-05-2020 8:59am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

In the past, the winter vomiting bug has caused hospitals to become overwhelmed in Ireland. This hasn't. The majority of Healthcare systems haven't come anywhere near being overwhelmed because of covid19. People aren't receiving other life saving treatment though. People are avoiding going to hospitals when they probably desperately need to. Where I live, many hospital workers are having their hours reduced or being laid off. In the midst of a pandemic that will supposedly flood hospitals, they are actually emptier than ever

And nothing that has been done anywhere has prevented the healthcare system from being overan?

And Lombardy, Madrid, London, New York have been pretty bad

ceadaoin. · 01-05-2020 9:03am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And nothing that has been done anywhere has prevented the healthcare system from being overan?

And Lombardy, Madrid, London, New York have been pretty bad

Even in New York, they didn't need any of the extra beds that they set up. The hospitals were not overwhelmed. Same in London, the field hospital sits empty.

I don't know why Lombardy was such an exception. No doubt we will find out in time, I expect it will be found that a specific set of circumstances led to the system becoming overwhelmed in such a bad way.

From what I can see, reopening but keeping social distancing measures in place as much as possible, and wearing masks in public is the way forward.

Zenify · 01-05-2020 9:05am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My future daughter in law had a life changing operation cancelled due to this crisis, yet private hospitals are at 1/3 capacity. 400+ private hospital consultants/surgeons sitting at home twiddling their thumbs due to contract hurdles. So gone tell me how important is to keep the country locked done. Procedures have been cancelled to keep beds free, how many lives will be lost because that policy or far worse outcomes to a condition because it is not being dealt with now.
Only yesterday I read a poster being guilted on his behaviour that could cause him to occupy a bed instead of it being available for a Covid patient.

Would you like that future daughter in law to be in a vulnerable recovery state and catch Covid-19? Very high mortality rate in hospitals with sick people.

completedit · 01-05-2020 9:05am

Nah, the firepower behind this is too much. We will fire up the printing press and the economies of the western world will bounce back.

But this raises a moral question. Why can the rich westerners/Europeans print ourselves out of hardship while billions still live in poverty?
Risk of inflation? I get that for us deflation is the problem so we have the space to flex our muscles especially since there has been an artificial drop in (acted upon) demand

01-05-2020 9:06am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A deepening lockdown would not be tolerated now, that horse has bolted since early March. A yo yoing of restrictions, not going to be tolerated either.

Long term it may be best for both the economy and society however as it will allow close to normal living (within the country) once 4 to 6 weeks are over. Go too soon and we will only be able to allow minor incremental relaxations with the high risk of returning to current status there for 9-12 months

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:12am

Zenify wrote: »

Would you like that future daughter in law to be in a vulnerable recovery state and catch Covid-19? Very high mortality rate in hospitals with sick people.

She is presently in a more vulnerable state by not having her operation. The details however I won't be sharing.

hmmm · 01-05-2020 9:12am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A deepening lockdown would not be tolerated now, that horse has bolted since early March. A yo yoing of restrictions, not going to be tolerated either.

Based on the current models of how the disease progresses, you can't have both. You have to pick one.

We can choose to get cases very low now, and try and prevent the growth of new cases using contact tracing and testing. Or, we can stay at the current level, and accept that we will need repeated phases of opening and lockdowns.

The first option (the South Korean model) has only worked in a single country, although very successfully there, but it will only work if the number of cases are very low. We still have hundreds of new cases every day.

01-05-2020 9:13am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Professor McConkey during the week on Morning Ireland stated health and the economy cannot be pitted against each other. He stated wealth generation is necessary for health. You need a healthy economy to be able to pay for all the services we consume.
I find the disconnect people have from how important the economy is distrubing. Do people seriously believe the lack of funding for services after the financial crash didn't result in premature deaths?

Glad to know in between whoring himself out on TV left, right and centre, he had time to become an expert in economics.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:14am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Long term it may be best for both the economy and society however as it will allow close to normal living (within the country) once 4 to 6 weeks are over. Go too soon and we will only be able to allow minor incremental relaxations with the high risk of returning to current status there for 9-12 months

Not sure of what I said you don't understand, a deep lockdown will not be happening. Already people are railing against the present lockdown. The state does not have the manpower or resources to impose what you are suggesting so it's a waste of time discussing it further.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:16am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Glad to know in between whoring himself out on TV left, right and centre, he had time to become an expert in economics.

He's not but I assume a person as educated as he is cannot be blind to the effects the lockdown is having on the economy plus only an idiot would believe a well funded health system can exist without a functioning economy.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:18am

hmmm wrote: »

Based on the current models of how the disease progresses, you can't have both. You have to pick one.

We can choose to get cases very low now, and try and prevent the growth of new cases using contact tracing and testing. Or, we can stay at the current level, and accept that we will need repeated phases of opening and lockdowns.

The first option (the South Korean model) has only worked in a single country, although very successfully there, but it will only work if the number of cases are very low. We still have hundreds of new cases every day.

Yes we had 369 cases yesterday, 222 of which were in the care settings I have mentioned already.

kippy · 01-05-2020 9:20am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Professor McConkey during the week on Morning Ireland stated health and the economy cannot be pitted against each other. He stated wealth generation is necessary for health. You need a healthy economy to be able to pay for all the services we consume.
I find the disconnect people have from how important the economy is distrubing. Do people seriously believe the lack of funding for services after the financial crash didn't result in premature deaths?

I don't think there's a disconnect.
Most people realise that poorer countries have drasticilly worse health outcomes. Most people realise that this economic disaster is going to lead to hard decisions being required.
But most people also realise the alternatives that are on the table are far less palatible than the current situation.

Do people seriously beleive that the unrestricted spread of this virus GLOBALLY would have resulted in a less worse outcome than that currently?

Restrictions will get lifted on a phased basis and the economy both local and global will and has tanked - but there are options available to states to help create wealth and generate money. There are very few options available to states if this virus had run rampant.

01-05-2020 9:26am

GazzaL wrote: »

The hospitals aren't overwhelmed. Our ICUs are only at 33% capacity. We're paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals 75% empty. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/calls-to-revisit-private-hospital-deal-as-beds-lying-empty-despite-115m-per-month-cost-to-taxpayer-996616.html

Yet, if the hospital beds weren’t there when mammy or granny got the virus, you’d be squealing even louder.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:27am

This might make uncomfortable reading for some.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweden-is-a-model-for-the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0

hmmm · 01-05-2020 9:30am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Yes we had 369 cases yesterday, 222 of which were in the care settings I have mentioned already.

South Korea announced in mid April they were lifting some restrictions because they felt the numbers had become manageable. On that day they had 8 cases.

01-05-2020 9:31am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not sure of what I said you don't understand, a deep lockdown will not be happening. Already people are railing against the present lockdown. The state does not have the manpower or resources to impose what you are suggesting so it's a waste of time discussing it further.

My point was not that I believe that will or can or even should happen, just that it is probably in the long term best interests of both society and the economy. Lock down to mid June and then return to almost normal with strict quarantine and testing / contact tracing. Or limp on for 12 months with strict social distancing, closed bars and low capacity restaurants with the risk that at any time at a few days notice we return to where we are now.

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:32am

hmmm wrote: »

South Korea announced in mid April they were lifting some restrictions because they felt the numbers had become manageable. On that day they had 8 cases.

What restrictions?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0329/1127023-what-south-korea-can-teach-ireland/

GazzaL · 01-05-2020 9:36am

Deleted User wrote: »

My point was not that I believe that will or can or even should happen, just that it is probably in the long term best interests of both society and the economy. Lock down to mid June and then return to almost normal with strict quarantine and testing / contact tracing. Or limp on for 12 months with strict social distancing, closed bars and low capacity restaurants with the risk that at any time at a few days notice we return to where we are now.

Normal goes out the window if we lock down until mid June. The places the do re-open will not be re-opening with full staff. The €350 a week will be gone, even €200 a week will be unaffordable given the numbers that will be in receipt of it. We might have to align with the North and reduce it to €83.50 a week.

We need to use social distancing, good hygiene, and get on with life. A reality check is in the post.

01-05-2020 9:38am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This might make uncomfortable reading for some.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweden-is-a-model-for-the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0

This is what some Irish people do when in lockdown

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dublin-lord-mayor-hits-out-at-parties-where-social-distancing-had-gone-out-the-window-996371.html

Can you imagine what would happen when trusted to social distance - if only there was an example or two

https://www.irishpost.com/news/revellers-filmed-singing-dancing-arm-arm-packed-dublin-pub-despite-coronavirus-warnings-181646

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/cheltenham-faces-criticism-after-racegoers-suffer-covid-19-symptoms-1.4219458

gp1990 · 01-05-2020 9:38am

People are living in cuckoo land if they think the economy will return to anywhere even remotely near where it was anytime before about 2022

I know of many business owners who were looking at next week or at least mid may as a chance to gradually re-ope the office with massive restrictions still in place and continue to encourage WFH as much as possible. However there has been lots of issues with staff being unable to connect remotely with poor rural broadband, meaning crucial meetings haven't happened, work isn't getting done and the extra workload is falling on others who have actually had paycuts, who are both frustrated and fatigued. By letting people into the office even an hour or two a week would make a massive difference

May will probably bring the most permanent job losses we've seen in a single month in our lifetimes. Anyone who thinks that these people can sit it out a few months on welfare are dreaming. What jobs will be there for them in a few months? Any line manager approaching their CFO looking for approval for a new hire will be laughed out of their office. Its cuts, cuts, cuts for the foreseeable in the vast majority of sectors

Then next year good luck applying for any job that may arise due to hundreds applying for the same role - including many with senior management experience now 'lowering' themselves to mid-level roles

There'll be no work for students for the forseeable to pay college fees, this will then fall back on their parents who now may be out of work or have high paycuts - the knock on effects of this whole thing are just too galling to imagine

Today could be a make or break day for SMEs countrywide. Any sort of indication as to an imminent return could be the difference in some staying above water.

fits · 01-05-2020 9:39am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This might make uncomfortable reading for some.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweden-is-a-model-for-the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0

Not least because its behind a paywall :P

Actually I agree, I think lesser restrictions are probably justified - definitely outside the cities.

Re my earlier comment and mortality rates etc, I wont be taking any chances with the virus. ITs a dangerous unknown entity. I'd prefer if we could eliminate it altogether from the country at least until a vaccine is developed.

20silkcut · 01-05-2020 9:42am

kippy wrote: »

I don't think there's a disconnect.
Most people realise that poorer countries have drasticilly worse health outcomes. Most people realise that this economic disaster is going to lead to hard decisions being required.
But most people also realise the alternatives that are on the table are far less palatible than the current situation.

Do people seriously beleive that the unrestricted spread of this virus GLOBALLY would have resulted in a less worse outcome than that currently?

Restrictions will get lifted on a phased basis and the economy both local and global will and has tanked - but there are options available to states to help create wealth and generate money. There are very few options available to states if this virus had run rampant.

Prime example is the airline industry. Flights kept going full belt all over the world in full knowledge of a deadly disease being transported on those planes. I’m sure there was intense lobbying by the airline industry to just plough on. Now two months later 90% of planes sit idle on the tarmac. International air travel is a very dark place. That’s what ploughing on regardless results in.

01-05-2020 9:47am

GazzaL wrote: »

Normal goes out the window if we lock down until mid June. The places the do re-open will not be re-opening with full staff. The €350 a week will be gone, even €200 a week will be unaffordable given the numbers that will be in receipt of it. We might have to align with the North and reduce it to €83.50 a week.

We need to use social distancing, good hygiene, and get on with life. A reality check is in the post.

Do you think that business in the hospitality sector that open now will be able to open with full staff. Will be at 30% capacity if they are lucky with social distancing, and will struggle to get past 50% this year. Get our cases down towards single digits and they could potentially open at 70%+ capacity.

ShatterAlan · 01-05-2020 9:47am

GazzaL wrote: »

Companies of all sizes are going to collapse as a result of the lockdown. Huge numbers of temporary job losses will become permanent, and there will be a high number of long-term unemployed as a result.

Companies who had issues coming into this crisis are in big trouble. We've already seen some big names like Debenhams and Oasis go into liquidation/administration.

Many healthy businesses will also collapse as they can't sustain the costs of continuing with these lockdown measures, or they will let go of staff due to reduced demand for their products and services. This is most unfortunate, because most busineses could re-open safely tomorrow. SMEs have been sourcing hand sanitiser, PPE, and implementing social distancing plans since before the lockdown and can operate as safely, if not more safely, than supermarkets and other businesses which have been allowed to continue trading.

12,000 jobs are being cut in British Airways, and we can expect job losses in Aer Lingus too who are also part of IAG. Ryanair, who have one of the healthiest balance sheets in the business, have warned this morning of 3000 job cuts.

Here's a graph of forecast permanent job losses.

Thanks Leo. Thanks Tony.

Leo and Tony caused the COVID outbreak?

01-05-2020 9:50am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Leo and Tony caused the COVID outbreak?

Evidently - they were sacrificing baby bats in an office in Mount Street

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is what some Irish people do when in lockdown

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dublin-lord-mayor-hits-out-at-parties-where-social-distancing-had-gone-out-the-window-996371.html

Can you imagine what would happen when trusted to social distance - if only there was an example or two

https://www.irishpost.com/news/revellers-filmed-singing-dancing-arm-arm-packed-dublin-pub-despite-coronavirus-warnings-181646

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/cheltenham-faces-criticism-after-racegoers-suffer-covid-19-symptoms-1.4219458

Just a question was social distancing being enforced and the the justification for it during the two examples you cited?

gp1990 · 01-05-2020 9:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think that business in the hospitality sector that open now will be able to open with full staff. Will be at 30% capacity if they are lucky with social distancing, and will struggle to get past 50% this year. Get our cases down towards single digits and they could potentially open at 70%+ capacity.

Many in the hotel sector are seriously considering what level of automation they can now look to implement in the shorter term - automation in hospitality has been a topic rising in popularity in recent years but was more looking towards ten or so years down the line in the likes of Ireland

For example there might be no receptionists, but visitors will instead check in using their smart phone on a machine at the front desk and they then automatically download a barcode which also acts as their room key

Sadly this will mean a lot of permanent job losses - its a very tough time ahead for hospitality in general

Plumbthedepths · 01-05-2020 9:55am

fits wrote: »

Not least because its behind a paywall :P

Actually I agree, I think lesser restrictions are probably justified - definitely outside the cities.

Re my earlier comment and mortality rates etc, I wont be taking any chances with the virus. ITs a dangerous unknown entity. I'd prefer if we could eliminate it altogether from the country at least until a vaccine is developed.

It won't be eliminated from the country and according to some experts with WHO a vaccine is unlikely in the next 12 to 18 months if ever.

The Permanent Job Losses Thread

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