Relaxation of restrictions Part II

normanoffside · 30-04-2020 07:50PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So as an advocate of a second wave being acceptable how many people do you think it is acceptable to dispense with the second time round? Out of interest?

Sure wasn't there just an article published saying there is no sign of a second wave in Denmark and Czech Republic?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/danes-and-czechs-say-easing-lockdowns-has-produced-no-covid-19-surge

In any case the only alternative is to stay locked down indefinitely until there is an effective virus.
Do you see that as a good strategy?

Spencer Brown · 30-04-2020 07:52PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

No point it trying to discuss something with a person whose level of maturity, and ability to articulate a point of view can’t extend beyond a playschool insult.

Being a condescending bollox isn't much better.

Mod: Banned.

FintanMcluskey · 30-04-2020 07:53PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You obviously don't have kids.

Quite possibly that poster may have, and realises its important to ensure kids know that the risk is multiple times less than winning the lotto.
I hope fear of Covid is not foolishly engrained in kids by people who are projecting personal fears upon children.
Coping skills are important for children, unfortunately coping skills are abscent in most of the people in support of the police state, so Im sure mental health and anxiety will skyrocket at a time when the state won't be able to afford support

GazzaL · 30-04-2020 07:53PM

Spencer Brown wrote: »

Being a condescending bollox isn't much better.

He thinks people forgot his disgusting comments from earlier and came back for more.

Penfailed · 30-04-2020 07:57PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Quite possibly that poster may have, and realises its important to ensure kids know that the risk is multiple times less than winning the lotto.

Quite possibly you've just guessed what another poster may think (just as I've guessed that he doesn't have kids).

Ce he sin · 30-04-2020 07:58PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So as an advocate of a second wave being acceptable how many people do you think it is acceptable to dispense with the second time round? Out of interest?

There are quite a few posting here who'd be quite happy to sacrifice anybody over say 80 and/or with underlying health conditions. I'm guessing they're from the younger end of the age spectrum themselves.

easypazz · 30-04-2020 07:58PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Quite possibly that poster may have, and realises its important to ensure kids know that the risk is multiple times less than winning the lotto.
I hope fear of Covid is not foolishly engrained in kids by people who are projecting personal fears upon children.
Coping skills are important for children, unfortunately coping skills are abscent in most of the people in support of the police state, so Im sure mental health and anxiety will skyrocket at a time when the state won't be able to afford support

Precisely.

Every time there is a sniff of some new illness that hasn't a snowballs chance they want full lockdowns and everybody brainwashed into being in a constant state of fear.

The damage an endless cycle of this Armageddon rubbish would do on kids is unthinkable.

FintanMcluskey · 30-04-2020 08:00PM

road_high wrote: »

Rte are utter ****e. All they do is repeat government press releases and regal ya with happy stories about Gardai delivering a birthday cake to bridie Murphy who is 90- no mention of the cost to the taxpayer or silly details like that

At the same time some 5 week trainee Garda is questioning is Pat feeding cattle in an outfarm in Mayo actually essential work? A fresh discovery is the absolute lack of knowledge of the laws surrounding the government directive at present. A local recycling centre informed my father today that they were open but some of their customers had been instructed to turn around because recycling was not essential, a complete absence of knowledge regarding laws they are implementing

easypazz · 30-04-2020 08:02PM

Ce he sin wrote: »

There are quite a few posting here who'd be quite happy to sacrifice anybody over say 80 and/or with underlying health conditions. I'm guessing they're from the younger end of the age spectrum themselves.

The consensus of most on here is cocoon the over 70's for their own safety until things normalise.

I've seen nobody propose letting it rip in the over 80's.

Nobody.

Not even 1.

30-04-2020 08:02PM

I can see a need for an emergency budget to be brought in. They’ll be looking to tax the hell out of people still working to help pay for this lockdown and the Covid payments.

Everyone in the country is going to be screaming for funds that are just simply no longer available.

The banks will need a bailout if too many go on pay holidays and can’t pay.

The fallout will kill many more than Covid.

I can see some serious carnage and chaos kicking off if things don’t change very soon. Possibly protests or just complete unrest and the gards won’t cope.

We’re literally pissing away the future of the country when we should be just looking to protect the elders. Tell them to cocoon.

Spencer Brown · 30-04-2020 08:03PM

Ce he sin wrote: »

There are quite a few posting here who'd be quite happy to sacrifice anybody over say 80 and/or with underlying health conditions. I'm guessing they're from the younger end of the age spectrum themselves.

Hopefully your post in May is better than this effort.

FintanMcluskey · 30-04-2020 08:03PM

Ce he sin wrote: »

There are quite a few posting here who'd be quite happy to sacrifice anybody over say 80 and/or with underlying health conditions. I'm guessing they're from the younger end of the age spectrum themselves.

Can somebody sacrifice the terminally ill and end of life patients that are most at risk from this? Nobody is being sacrificed

GazzaL · 30-04-2020 08:04PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

At the same time some 5 week trainee Garda is questioning is Pat feeding cattle in an outfarm in Mayo actually essential work? A fresh discovery is the absolute lack of knowledge of the laws surrounding the government directive at present. A local recycling centre informed my father today that they were open but some of their customers had been instructed to turn around because recycling was not essential, a complete absence of knowledge regarding laws they are implementing

I know a guy who was stopped and searched bringing a bed for a 90 year old woman who was coming out of hospital. The Garda had the regulations out and wasn't sure so told him to have a think about whether it was an essential service or not. Sheer lunacy. It wasn't a young Garda either!

drunkmonkey · 30-04-2020 08:06PM

NewRed2 wrote: »

He said a factory with 80 positive COVID19 tests and 200 staff out but it doesn't make the news.... Journos these days, they're missing all the stories

I'd like to prove the cluster without a journalist picking up the story or the HSE breaking down the numbers besides just giving a county number. I can't see of a way to do it. If you can show where the information is by locality I'll show you the cluster I'm on about.
This information from what I can see is being hidden from the public by the HSE and Media.

NewRed2 · 30-04-2020 08:21PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

No point it trying to discuss something with a person whose level of maturity, and ability to articulate a point of view can’t extend beyond a playschool insult.

Wow!! This coming from someone who posted that disgusting post earlier saying they talked to a HSE worker yesterday and they died. Did you delete that or did a Mod do it for you? I don't mind if I get a warning for asking that question but it needs to be pointed out that you said that when you're still going around questioning others maturity.
I've seen some people post some mad stuff on the internet to try to win an argument they've already lost but not much as bad as what you said.
So if I were you I'd ease back on insulting other posters because you don't have a leg to stand on after the depth you sank to earlier sunshine.

DebDynamite · 30-04-2020 08:24PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yes exactly

From 12th of March to 5th of May is 55 days

According to the Irish Times timetable it will be at least another 2 months if you don't live within 20km of your partner

That's up to 30th of June which is 111 days

How can the government expect any couple to stick to that?

It’s crazy. A poster a few posts up said Leo intimated in the Dáil today that airlines might be flying in August (i.e. letting in any citizens of any country who will allow them to fly - we are not stopping *them* from coming into our country), but yet we have to until the end of June to travel to see loved ones.

FintanMcluskey · 30-04-2020 08:26PM

easypazz wrote: »

The consensus of most on here is cocoon the over 70's for their own safety until things normalise.

I've seen nobody propose letting it rip in the over 80's.

Nobody.

Not even 1.

Yes. And the stark reality is the most are risk are end of life patients.

KrustyUCC · 30-04-2020 08:26PM

DebDynamite wrote: »

It’s crazy. A poster a few posts up said Leo intimated in the Dáil today that airlines might be flying in August (i.e. letting in any citizens of any country who will allow them to fly - we are not stopping *them* from coming into our country), but yet we have to until the end of June to travel to see loved ones.

Unfortunately end of June could be ambitious the way Holohan was talking at the press conference earlier

Nickindublin · 30-04-2020 08:32PM

They started ok but have now ended up making a hash of it. There should have been an exit plan and the criteria for exiting published weeks ago. For example when we hit ABC we will reopen so many days ltr So and So and on and on. People need a plan to buy into this. Its being 6 weeks and no plan.

Simon Harris said that we would be testing 100000 a week in March. We still wont be doing it in 3 weeks.

We were told the the R had to be below 1 to start lifting the lock down and this is the most important criteria which it has being for the last 2 weeks nearly.

The biggest failure was the nursing homes. Why were these not in full lock down.

Last week they started the spin saying people were not social distancing and that the lock down was going to be extended. I feel like I am back in school and being told I'm getting more detention.

I have a big fear that there is more to this than we are being told.

We badly need a government and IMO it should have being a Unity government 8 weeks ago. How on earth is Shane Ross still in cabinet and unelected officials determining the course.

If you think the financial crash was bad wait until you see this. I fear for what will come. I can see severe social unrest once these restrictions are lifted across Europe. Far right etc

FintanMcluskey · 30-04-2020 08:34PM

Just seen government ministers won't take a pay cut.
Remember that tomorrow afternoon as Leo announces a 4 week extension of the current restrictions. Remember that as 1.2m are on an emergency payment and deferring mortgage payments. Remember that as business owners watch all they worked for go down the drain and they are powerless to stop.
The minister's who refused discussion for 2 months about the restriction and protected Tony and Co. will refuse a pay cut. What in the name of jeasus????

SNNUS · 30-04-2020 08:39PM

Interesting interview, At least to have a counter balance argument to our 6 O'Clock lockdown show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY

Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and an advisor to the director general of the WHO, lays out with typically Swedish bluntness why he thinks:

- UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based
- The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
- This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
- The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
- The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact
- The paper was very much too pessimistic
- Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway
- The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
- The results will eventually be similar for all countries
- Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
- The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%
- At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available

JayRoc · 30-04-2020 08:42PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No, people don't need to relax they need to be told the plan for getting out of this, Varadkar better have something worthwhile to say tomorrow otherwise folks will say fook this and do their own thing.

They already have. Certainly where I live.

Not to say that most people are being careless or negligent, but from what I can see folks aren't getting any kind of consistent message from the government (the infection/death numbers are all over the place and essentially meaningless, the rules are different for different groups ie travellers, fruit pickers, protesters of one kind but not protesters of another kind, etc)
and if people don't buy into this then it's a waste of time.

All I can see around me is people basically deciding what precautions to take for themselves. I doubt most people are even aware of what the "official" restrictions are anymore because they are essentially irrelevant, at least as far as I can see.

Most people, myself included, toed the line with no complaint assuming the rules would be applied to everyone

Down9194 · 30-04-2020 08:44PM

Nickindublin wrote: »

They started ok but have now ended up making a hash of it. There should have been an exit plan and the criteria for exiting published weeks ago. For example when we hit ABC we will reopen so many days ltr So and So and on and on. People need a plan to buy into this. Its being 6 weeks and no plan.

Simon Harris said that we would be testing 100000 a week in March. We still wont be doing it in 3 weeks.

We were told the the R had to be below 1 to start lifting the lock down and this is the most important criteria which it has being for the last 2 weeks nearly.

The biggest failure was the nursing homes. Why were these not in full lock down.

Last week they started the spin saying people were not social distancing and that the lock down was going to be extended. I feel like I am back in school and being told I'm getting more detention.

I have a big fear that there is more to this than we are being told.

We badly need a government and IMO it should have being a Unity government 8 weeks ago. How on earth is Shane Ross still in cabinet and unelected officials determining the course.

If you think the financial crash was bad wait until you see this. I fear for what will come. I can see severe social unrest once these restrictions are lifted across Europe. Far right etc

They're blue****s Shane Ross et all,

dalyboy · 30-04-2020 08:44PM

GazzaL wrote: »

I know a guy who was stopped and searched bringing a bed for a 90 year old woman who was coming out of hospital. The Garda had the regulations out and wasn't sure so told him to have a think about whether it was an essential service or not. Sheer lunacy. It wasn't a young Garda either!

I’ve got that beat. My 68 year old neighbour was stopped on the way to the shops and asked to prove he was under 70 as he should be cocooning. Sadly ignorance won the day on my neighbours behalf and the guard escorted him 1.5kms back to his house to produce his passport with his D.O.B. What a complete waste of a gaurds time when cocooning is 100% AN ADVISEMENT.

easypazz · 30-04-2020 08:45PM

SNNUS wrote: »

Interesting interview, At least to have a counter balance argument to our 6 O'Clock lockdown show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY

Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and an advisor to the director general of the WHO, lays out with typically Swedish bluntness why he thinks:

- UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based
- The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
- This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
- The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
- The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact
- The paper was very much too pessimistic
- Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway
- The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
- The results will eventually be similar for all countries
- Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
- The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%
- At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available

Exactly. Protect the vulnerable categories.

In Ireland, in a rush to create hospital capacity, we sent covid positive people into care homes infecting everybody.

This is where our problem lies.

Too many people are behaving like sheep in this country at the moment.

Holohan needs to be challenged.

We are entitled to a second opinion.

lawrencesummers · 30-04-2020 08:45PM

NewRed2 wrote: »

Wow!! This coming from someone who posted that disgusting post earlier saying they talked to a HSE worker yesterday and they died. Did you delete that or did a Mod do it for you? I don't mind if I get a warning for asking that question but it needs to be pointed out that you said that when you're still going around questioning others maturity.
I've seen some people post some mad stuff on the internet to try to win an argument they've already lost but not much as bad as what you said.
So if I were you I'd ease back on insulting other posters because you don't have a leg to stand on after the depth you sank to earlier sunshine.

That’s not what I posted, but don’t let accuracy cloud your mis placed rage.

dashdoll · 30-04-2020 08:47PM

How long do people reckon tommorrows extension will be because lets face it, what we are getting is going to be an extension in all but name. While I'm so mindful and worried about the health implications, I am financially CRIPPLED and need to go back to work. I'm more stressed about losing the roof over my head and going into massive debt again like before again to be honest.

peasant · 30-04-2020 08:49PM

SNNUS wrote: »

Professor Johan Giesecke {snip}thinks:

- At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available

Wouldn't that be lovely if he were right.
But we don't know (yet) because ...no test.
And until we can know, I can't see much wrong with being cautious, just in case he isn't right

Stormyteacup · 30-04-2020 08:51PM

Nickindublin wrote: »

They started ok but have now ended up making a hash of it. There should have been an exit plan and the criteria for exiting published weeks ago. For example when we hit ABC we will reopen so many days ltr So and So and on and on. People need a plan to buy into this. Its being 6 weeks and no plan.

Simon Harris said that we would be testing 100000 a week in March. We still wont be doing it in 3 weeks.

We were told the the R had to be below 1 to start lifting the lock down and this is the most important criteria which it has being for the last 2 weeks nearly.

The biggest failure was the nursing homes. Why were these not in full lock down.

Last week they started the spin saying people were not social distancing and that the lock down was going to be extended. I feel like I am back in school and being told I'm getting more detention.

(B)I have a big fear that there is more to this than we are being told.(/B)

We badly need a government and IMO it should have being a Unity government 8 weeks ago. How on earth is Shane Ross still in cabinet and unelected officials determining the course.

If you think the financial crash was bad wait until you see this. I fear for what will come. I can see severe social unrest once these restrictions are lifted across Europe. Far right etc

Most definitely there is more to this than we are being told. I believe NPHET have decided their policies are reasonably closely aligned with an eradication policy and that they are going for eradication. Disappointingly they have decided not to bring the rest of us in on the plan.

A document was presented to NPHET on 10th April asking them to consider an eradication plan rather than current plan of suppression, and flattening of curve, (likely by McConkey). But this plan as pointed out by another poster here relies on All-Ireland compliance, which needs more time.

Can't at this point think of any other reason they want to buy more time with so much resistance from general population, along with a strong cohort of 'opposition' politicians voicing dissatisfaction with keeping the economy closed.

easypazz · 30-04-2020 08:52PM

[QUOTE=peasant;113321527I can't see much wrong with being cautious, [/QUOTE]

~1 million people on some sort of welfare crutch because of this, you can't see much wrong?

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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