Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Inquitus · 26-04-2020 02:04PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Well is half the rent not better than nothing?

If I halved your income, what effect would it have on your finances? This is true for pretty much any entity, Commercial Property Companies speculate, leverage bank loans against expected revenue, you halve their income and then their viability becomes questionable, the same way yours does if your household income is halved.

They go out of business and the banks have to pick up the tab.

bekker · 26-04-2020 02:06PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

And?

Perhaps some of them will go bust, and then the property can be reused for something a bit more positive to society rather than a booze house!?

The way some people talk about Irish pubs, you would swear they were some sort of essential business. They're a luxury, not a necessity in society.

Your urban centrice prejudice is showing again.

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:09PM

eagle eye wrote: »

You think people don't care about spreading the virus and being responsible for others dying?

I believe they do, and that's why people have tolerated it thus far. But there comes a breaking point for everyone.

Would you be willing to stay in "lockdown" indefinitely on the extremely low probability that your single efforts will save a life?

pjohnson · 26-04-2020 02:10PM

Inquitus wrote: »

If I halved your income, what effect would it have on your finances? This is true for pretty much any entity, Commercial Property Companies speculate, leverage bank loans against expected revenue, you halve their income and then their viability becomes questionable, the same way yours does if your household income is halved.

They go out of business and the banks have to pick up the tab.

Well let them keep the rent high with no one able/willing to pay it. You go out of business even quicker.

podgeandrodge · 26-04-2020 02:11PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

And?

Perhaps some of them will go bust, and then the property can be reused for something a bit more positive to society rather than a booze house!?

The way some people talk about Irish pubs, you would swear they were some sort of essential business. They're a luxury, not a necessity in society.

Just to clarify the facts here, which are well documented, and cannot be disputed (except by people who are wrong):

Irish pubs are essential and are a necessity in society.

pjohnson · 26-04-2020 02:11PM

Inquitus wrote: »

If I halved your income, what effect would it have on your finances? This is true for pretty much any entity, Commercial Property Companies speculate, leverage bank loans against expected revenue, you halve their income and then their viability becomes questionable, the same way yours does if your household income is halved.

They go out of business and the banks have to pick up the tab.

Well let them keep the rent high with no one able/willing to pay it. You go out of business even quicker with no one renting as your income is zero.

joe_99 · 26-04-2020 02:12PM

jackboy wrote: »

He was not in his garden, he was outside his property. This is not allowed. I didn’t make the rules.

There are people being cautioned by the guards for a lot less.

No they are not. Completele rubbish. Avoiding my question too I see which says everything.

Strumms · 26-04-2020 02:13PM

VonLuck wrote: »

You think that the current level of restrictions will be in place until the end of July?! Not a chance! The public wouldn't tolerate it.

What the government need to do is relax some of the measures so that the public are still on their side. If they don't do something they will lose support and will be very difficult to implement any potential future restrictions.

The public will just HAVE to tolerate it, if it’s for the health and wellbeing of this country and it’s people, the future wellbeing of the state and its people . Between the regular army and active reservists there are just over 9100. If a couple of thousand need to be put on the streets to argument the Gardai in population centers where the Gardai are struggling with resources to keep a lid on things, do it...

The price of not doing it is too grave. It’s mass death.

Away With The Fairies · 26-04-2020 02:20PM

VonLuck wrote: »

You think that the current level of restrictions will be in place until the end of July?! Not a chance! The public wouldn't tolerate it.

What the government need to do is relax some of the measures so that the public are still on their side. If they don't do something they will lose support and will be very difficult to implement any potential future restrictions.

How can they relax restrictions when testing hasn't even been ramped up yet... Third week of May is when they plan on ramping up testing to 100,000 per week.

What kind of restrictions can they possibly relax? And if they do relax anything, are they going to change their tune on face masks for the public?

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:21PM

Strumms wrote: »

The public will just HAVE to tolerate it, if it’s for the health and wellbeing of this country and it’s people, the future wellbeing of the state and its people . Between the regular army and active reservists there are just over 9100. If a couple of thousand need to be put on the streets to argument the Gardai in population centers where the Gardai are struggling with resources to keep a lid on things, do it...

The price of not doing it is too grave. It’s mass death.

I am all in favour of doing what needs to be done to limit the spread of the virus and save lives, but you're not seeing sense.

People will not just tolerate it because you say they have to. You can already see from the increase in traffic, people out and about walking and even comments from people on this forum that they've already started ignoring the restrictions.

People for the most part are good and will try to help if they can, but when it starts to severely affect your personal life, they will break, even with the best will in the world. I haven't broken yet, but I'm sure there will come a point in the future where I feel I need to see my family.

And the comment about there being "mass death" if restrictions are relaxed is just hysteria.

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:24PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How can they relax restrictions when testing hasn't even been ramped up yet... Third week of May is when they plan on ramping up testing to 100,000 per week.

What kind of restrictions can they possibly relax? And if they do relax anything, are they going to change their tune on face masks for the public?

Very simply - they say "restrictions are relaxed". It is not dependent on further ramping up of testing.

Reasonable relaxation of restrictions could include extending the 2km limit, construction sites reopening and smaller shops reopening. All very manageable with social distancing measures put in place and carefully monitored and would do wonders for the public psyche.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 26-04-2020 02:26PM

bekker wrote: »

Your urban centrice prejudice is showing again.

Genuinely haven't a clue what this is supposed to mean?

I'm no urbanite.

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Irish pubs are essential and are a necessity in society.

I'm sure the vintners association would argue they are. Or anyone who is currently losing their mind, because they can't have a pint in their local...

But back in the real world, they're not really essential... they're actually largely holding our society back tbh. Putting a booze house in the same category as other essential businesses, is a bit silly really. It would be no great tragedy if we ended up with 50% less pubs at the end of this crisis.

Might even be a silver lining from the whole thing.

jackboy · 26-04-2020 02:28PM

joe_99 wrote: »

No they are not. Completele rubbish. Avoiding my question too I see which says everything.

I answered your question. It is against the restrictions to loiter unnecessarily outside your property. He could have done the piece from inside his house. Very bad example to set. It is no different to going to the park for a bit of sunbathing.

Doherty doing his piece in a studio with social distancing is allowed.

timsey tiger · 26-04-2020 02:28PM

VonLuck wrote: »

And the comment about there being "mass death" if restrictions are relaxed is just hysteria.

Yea, we're all in a transe, nothing much as been happening in the care homes, Italy or Spain these last few weeks.

Jim_Hodge · 26-04-2020 02:30PM

jackboy wrote: »

I answered your question. It is against the restrictions to loiter unnecessarily outside your property. He could have done the piece from inside his house. Very bad example to set. It is no different to going to the park for a bit of sunbathing.

Doherty doing his piece in a studio with social distancing is allowed.

Give over. Much safer for camera and sound engineers to set up outside. It is not loitering by any definition of the term.

Away With The Fairies · 26-04-2020 02:31PM

VonLuck wrote: »

Very simply - they say "restrictions are relaxed". It is not dependent on further ramping up of testing.

Reasonable relaxation of restrictions could include extending the 2km limit, construction sites reopening and smaller shops reopening. All very manageable with social distancing measures put in place and carefully monitored and would do wonders for the public psyche.

It is dependent on testing though. Even Simon Harris was asked the question last week about relaxation of restrictions and he said something about more testing needs to be done... And now the HSE is saying it can take until the third week of May to ramp up testing... They need to find as much positive cases as quickly as possible, and not have them roaming the streets in and out of shops.

Strumms · 26-04-2020 02:32PM

VonLuck wrote: »

I am all in favour of doing what needs to be done to limit the spread of the virus and save lives, but you're not seeing sense.

People will not just tolerate it because you say they have to. You can already see from the increase in traffic, people out and about walking and even comments from people on this forum that they've already started ignoring the restrictions.

People for the most part are good and will try to help if they can, but when it starts to severely affect your personal life, they will break, even with the best will in the world. I haven't broken yet, but I'm sure there will come a point in the future where I feel I need to see my family.

And the comment about there being "mass death" if restrictions are relaxed is just hysteria.

People will tolerate it if they realize that by breaking their restrictions and abdicating their responsibility to their country will see them ending up in serious serious trouble. If there is a proper deterrent. What that can be, It’s not going to be pleasant but I believe that serious decisions will be made if needed.

‘Need’ to see your family ? You want to yes, you don’t need to. To satisfy this want would be abdicating your responsibility to this country and everyone in it. Seeing family now isn’t a necessity. THE necessity is keeping EVERYONE including you and your family healthy and well..

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:33PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Yea, we're all in a transe, nothing much as been happening in the care homes, Italy or Spain these last few weeks.

And how exactly will the easing of restrictions to the general public have any impact on nursing homes? No one is suggesting that any restrictions are relaxed where the most vulnerable are located.

stephenjmcd · 26-04-2020 02:34PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Genuinely haven't a clue what this is supposed to mean?

I'm no urbanite.

I'm sure the vintners association would argue they are. Or anyone who is currently losing their mind, because they can't have a pint in their local...

But back in the real world, they're not really essential... they're actually largely holding our society back tbh. Putting a booze house in the same category as other essential businesses, is a bit silly really. It would be no great tragedy if we ended up with 50% less pubs at the end of this crisis.

Might even be a silver lining from the whole thing.

So 50% of people lose their jobs and given the hospitality sector accounts for roughly 2 billion into the exchequr alone never mind before the tax gained off PRSI, PAYE etc.

So your sliver lining is another hole in the countries finances from the hospitality sector, I suppose we just keep borrowing to fund the HSE and social welfare then ?
Oh and what about the restaurateurs & publicans who's businesses and livelihoods would be gone ? Sliverlining ?

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:36PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It is dependent on testing though. Even Simon Harris was asked the question last week about relaxation of restrictions and he said something about more testing needs to be done... And now the HSE is saying it can take until the third week of May to ramp up testing... They need to find as much positive cases as quickly as possible, and not have them roaming the streets in and out of shops.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/plans-to-ramp-up-covid-19-testing-to-100000-tests-a-week-996140.html

It's ramping up of testing, not a jump in testing. 100,000 by the third week doesn't mean that they suddenly increase testing on that third week.

jackboy · 26-04-2020 02:37PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Give over. Much safer for camera and sound engineers to set up outside. It is not loitering by any definition of the term.

They were standing there unnecessarily for at least an hour. That is loitering. It’s no wonder people are starting to go against the restrictions. They don’t apply to everyone.

pjohnson · 26-04-2020 02:38PM

Tbf some people wont tolerate it. We've seen Gemma and John leading those protests.

Thankfully its a minor portion of dopes.

ZX7R · 26-04-2020 02:38PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Just to clarify the facts here, which are well documented, and cannot be disputed (except by people who are wrong):

Irish pubs are essential and are a necessity in society.

Society as a hole will have to change and adapte that includes pubs that is a fact been told by every expert.
The fear that people and society has to change is bigger in psychological aspect than the virus.

stephenjmcd · 26-04-2020 02:42PM

ZX7R wrote: »

Society as a hole will have to change and adapte that includes pubs that is a fact been told by every expert.
The fear that people and society has to change is bigger in psychological aspect than the virus.

I think everyone knows and accepts that businesses will have to adapt and I'd hope alot our going through that planning now, but the theory that we just close everywhere that's of a social nature until theres a vaccine is just ridiculous

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:42PM

Strumms wrote: »

People will tolerate it if they realize that by breaking their restrictions and abdicating their responsibility to their country will see them ending up in serious serious trouble. If there is a proper deterrent. What that can be, It’s not going to be pleasant but I believe that serious decisions will be made if needed.

‘Need’ to see your family ? You want to yes, you don’t need to. To satisfy this want would be abdicating your responsibility to this country and everyone in it. Seeing family now isn’t a necessity. THE necessity is keeping EVERYONE including you and your family healthy and well..

There has to be a cost-benefit analysis on this. I'm all for saving lives, but you can't sacrifice everything. If that was the case we would ban driving because people could die in a car accident.

tobefrank321 · 26-04-2020 02:44PM

Inquitus wrote: »

The WHO said it yesterday. They have changed their tune a bit today,

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1254160937805926405

Thanks. Its good the WHO clarified their position that they expect most people who have recovered will have antibodies going forward.

A couple of people on here last night tried to claim there was no evidence full stop of immunity after being recovered. Turns out they were wrong as usual.

bekker · 26-04-2020 02:44PM

Inquitus wrote: »

If I halved your income, what effect would it have on your finances? This is true for pretty much any entity, Commercial Property Companies speculate, leverage bank loans against expected revenue, you halve their income and then their viability becomes questionable, the same way yours does if your household income is halved.

They go out of business and the banks have to pick up the tab.

So they too go out of business. Some other entity then purchases the property at distress prices and rents at a rate that yields a return in the then current market.

Nobody has a right to make a profit, despite property speculators/investors belief, they've a right to try, that's what business competition is about.

If you get your offering wrong for current market conditions, you have to adjust your offering (e.g. lower rent sought), or you lose all.

xtal191 · 26-04-2020 02:45PM

https://twitter.com/DamoBuckley1/status/1254370171361296385

joe_99 · 26-04-2020 02:45PM

jackboy wrote: »

I answered your question. It is against the restrictions to loiter unnecessarily outside your property. He could have done the piece from inside his house. Very bad example to set. It is no different to going to the park for a bit of sunbathing.

Doherty doing his piece in a studio with social distancing is allowed.

Travelling 250km or standing outside to do a piece for TV. Neither are an offence but one is unnecessary yet you picked on the guy 2 yards from his house. Interesting take that shows your agenda here.

pjohnson · 26-04-2020 02:46PM

bekker wrote: »

So they too go out of business. Some other entity then purchases the property at distress prices and rents at a rate that yields a return in the then current market.

Nobody has a right to make a profit, despite property speculators/investors belief, they've a right to try, that's what business competition is about.

If you get your offering wrong for current market conditions, you have to adjust your offering (e.g. lower rent sought), or you lose all.

I'd have thought it quite basic for any business person.

If you price yourself out of the market you get no income. If you price yourself within the market you get some income. Surely some is better than none?

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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