Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

stephenjmcd

contrary_devil wrote: »

<deleted>

An anonymous post on Facebook, must be true so.

A quick look at the comments and some employees completely disputing this.

Drumpot

VonLuck wrote: »

Is there a risk in relaxing some measures? Of course. But I'm not saying to take unmeasured risks. Yes there are some uncertainties, but that's what makes it a risk. We can't go indefinitely until we know every detail of Covid-19 as who knows when that will be.

Who is suggesting we go on indefinitely?

tobefrank321

eagle eye wrote: »

Go back to school and learn how to read. They didn't say that.

FFS.

They said there was no evidence of immunity.

Without a proper trial or study they cannot make this assertion.

They made a mistake, they've admitted it.

There is no long term evidence either way as its a novel virus.

They now say they expect most people to have immunity.

Without a proper study or trial they need to shut the hell up about it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

allinthehead wrote: »

They've not rowed back, first of all they said it would be wrong to assume, saying no clear evidence of immunity.

They've clarified that statement by saying that they expect immunity. There's still no clear evidence, however it's expected.

Yes, thank you.

caveat emptor

A good article with German expert and advisor. Well worth the read.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/virologist-christian-drosten-germany-coronavirus-expert-interview

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

sanjose1 wrote: »

I remember reading a report in Scotland a few years back, they estimated that for every pound spent on alcohol the cost to the health service was 70p. That doesnt include the additional chaos that alcohol causes individuals/families/society. I would take any numbers associated with pubs contribution to the economy with a large pinch of salt

Yeah, I would well believe it...

And most of the other costs to society, are much harder to calculate. But they're not small costs.

Very easy to throw out a nice neat tax number that they bring in. But at the end of the day, if less people were spending their time and money in pubs... they would be spending it elsewhere. So I'm sure other businesses and sectors would grow to accommodate the greater demand... and more employment opportunities would be created.

I've plenty of sympathy for businesses going under during this. But I'm not too worried about the pubs... they fleece everybody with their prices anyway, and their net contribution to society is not really a positive one overall!

tobefrank321

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

We said that they said there was no evidence at the time of those earlier tweets. That is true. There wasn’t. Actually, there may still be little evidence at this point with research into this virus still in its infancy.

I said all along the WHO are idiots to claim to have any idea about long term immunity simply because there has been no proper study into it yet.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

tobefrank321 wrote: »

FFS.

They said there was no evidence of immunity.

Without a proper trial or study they cannot make this assertion.

They made a mistake, they've admitted it.

There is no long term evidence either way as its a novel virus.

They now say they expect most people to have immunity.

Without a proper study or trial they need to shut the hell up about it.

THERE. WASN’T.

There not being a trial or study backs up their point. They could not say there was long-term immunity. That’s why they said there was no evidence. That’s not saying there’s no long term immunity, it’s saying they don’t know.

I think their mistake was not dumbing down the tweets and assuming a certain level of reading comprehension skills from the public. They didn’t allow for the dopes of the populace.

caveat emptor

I was only thinking about Cavan these last few days. They are number one in the country based on population. It's one of those prefab facebook post. "I'm a normal person, I was debating whether to post etc......." but there may some truth in it.

Cavan now highest Cumulative incidence rates per 100,000 population of confirmed cases of COVID-19 notified to midnight April 23rd 2020 in the country.

tobefrank321

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

THERE. WASN’T.

There not being a trial or study backs up their point. They could not say there was long-term immunity. That’s why they said there was no evidence. That’s not saying there’s no long term immunity, it’s saying they don’t know.

I think their mistake was not dumbing down the tweets and assuming a certain level of reading comprehension skills from the public. They didn’t allow for the dopes of the populace.

They also didn't allow for dopes who rehash what they say without questioning it.

pjohnson

caveat emptor wrote: »

I was only thinking about Cavan these last few days. They are number one in the country based on population. It's one of those prefab facebook post. "I'm a normal person, I was debating whether to post etc......." but there may some truth in it.

Cavan now highest Cumulative incidence rates per 100,000 population of confirmed cases of COVID-19 notified to midnight April 23rd 2020 in the country.

Suprised Galway is so low. 3rd lowest in country.

contrary_devil

stephenjmcd wrote: »

An anonymous post on Facebook, must be true so.

A quick look at the comments and some employees completely disputing this.

Would the company not have had it removed by now if it was untrue? At the moment the post is showing as being up 17 hours, long enough for the company and/or it's legal reps to contact Facebook?

JoChervil

allinthehead wrote: »

They've not rowed back, first of all they said it would be wrong to assume, saying no clear evidence of immunity.

They've clarified that statement by saying that they expect immunity. There's still no clear evidence, however it's expected.

I've watched Sky News today and it was an interview with a British expert. He said: Well, if you recovered from it, you must have an immunity, otherwise, you wouldn't recover. The question is how long this immunity will last.

And I fully agree with it. Evidence is recovered people.

NegativeCreep

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So if something brings in money, that means it's essential to the functioning of society? That's the only criteria?

Seems like quite a shallow perspective... what about all the lives destroyed by drink, and the subsequent financial and human cost of that?

Not quite as easy to total up the national bill for all of those costs into a nice tidy number. But you can be assured, it's just as big... if not bigger!

Alcohol is not essential, it's a luxury item... and booze houses are a luxury business.

Apple, google and Facebook and the many many other tech companies specialise in luxury items and brands. Would we let them close and leave Ireland if the situation arose?

bekker

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The WHO have rowed back on this already and said they expect most people to have immunity, as you already linked to.

Incorrect.

Original WHO statement
'WHO continues to review the evidence on antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 infection.{2-17} Most of these studies show that people who have recovered from infection have antibodies to the virus. However, some of these people have very low levels of neutralizing antibodies in their blood,{4} suggesting that cellular immunity may also be critical for recovery. As of 24 April 2020, no study has evaluated whether the presence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 confers immunity to subsequent infection by this virus in humans.' ({reference}, emphasis added).

Twitter post
We expect that most people who are infected with #COVID19 will develop an antibody response that will provide some level of protection.
(emphasis added)

Please indicate how you derive ' said they expect most people to have immunity' from either of those statements.

Drumpot

caveat emptor wrote: »

A good article with German expert and advisor. Well worth the read.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/virologist-christian-drosten-germany-coronavirus-expert-interview

Fascinating piece, thanks for posting. Who comes to mind in the negative when you consider below:

Q: Angela Merkel has been praised for her leadership during this crisis. What makes her a good leader?

She’s extremely well-informed. It helps that she’s a scientist and can handle numbers. But I think it mainly comes down to her character – her thoughtfulness and ability to reassure. Maybe one of the distinguishing features of a good leader is that they are not using this present situation as a political opportunity. They know how counterproductive that would be.

Drumpot

pjohnson wrote: »

Suprised Galway is so low. 3rd lowest in country.

COVID struggles As Gaelige

ACitizenErased

What's after going so wrong in Cavan? I wouldn't disbelieve that post about the meat factory. There must have been a massive outbreak somewhere there.

yerwanthere123

ACitizenErased wrote: »

What's after going so wrong in Cavan? I wouldn't disbelieve that post about the meat factory. There must have been a massive outbreak somewhere there.

Probably more so to do with the fact that they share a land border with the North, no?

Tony EH

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I do think that the WHO could have, with the benefit of hindsight obviously, have toned down their rhetoric a bit when it came to China. They spoke in almost reverent terms about it along the way:

"As I have said repeatedly since my return from Beijing, the Chinese government is to be congratulated for the extraordinary measures it has taken to contain the outbreak"

"The speed with which China detected the outbreak, isolated the virus, sequenced the genome and shared it with WHO and the world are very impressive, and beyond words. So is China’s commitment to transparency and to supporting other countries."

"In many ways, China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response. It’s not an exaggeration."

They also stated on the same day that "The vast majority of cases outside China have a travel history to Wuhan, or contact with someone with a travel history to Wuhan." but concluded that, while declaring a public health emergency, "there is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. WHO doesn’t recommend limiting trade and movement."

And then back to China:

"Let me be clear: this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary, WHO continues to have confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak."

All well meaning at the time, but I do think they could have been a little less gushing in their praises.

All of those quotes were from January and nearly all of them from a single document, dated Jan 30th...

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-statement-on-ihr-emergency-committee-on-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)

The WHO weren't even in China until February 8th. Until then they only had China's word on what they were doing.

Nearly everyone was speaking in good terms about China's attempts to tackle the Virus too at that time, because as far as everyone was concerned it was China's deal to contain it as best as they could. Even Donald Trump was speaking in glowing terms about China and President Xi in January.

In any case, what good would it have done to immediately start out by calling China liars? Especially when the likes of the WHO weren't even in China at the time. The Chinese would have shut up shop and we'd all be in a worse position.

You don't get cooperation out of countries by calling them a bunch of liars, just to suit some people's political opinions.

podgeandrodge

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Of course my issue is with alcohol...

Why would you think it was anything else? If you read my post properly, that would have been very obvious.

Lot's of sectors ebb and flow depending on societal factors. Some things go out of fashion, and that sector shrinks in size... people find employment elsewhere.

I did say in my OP, that I would hope those pubs that close down would be reused for other (non-alcohol related) business opportunities. So yes, I think it would be great if lots of our pubs closed down and never opened back up again... and perhaps other more interesting businesses could take their place. Entities that might add a bit more value to people's lives, instead of more booze houses... most of which just hold us back as a society!

Your issue is with alcohol and pubs though. Nothing to do with coronavirus, you just appear hopeful that coronavirus will close pubs indefinitely to suit your anti alcohol bias

pm1977x

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DamoBuckley1/status/1254370171361296385

Unfortunately these gob****es are representative of a large swathe of idiots across the country who think 'having the craic' is more important than anything else, many innocent people will die due to the negligent selfishness of this cohort.

contrary_devil

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Probably more so to do with the fact that they share a land border with the North, no?

Donegal, Leitrim, Louth, Monaghan and Sligo also share a land border with the North, is the situation as bad in those counties?

joe_99

contrary_devil wrote: »

Donegal, Leitrim, Louth, Monaghan and Sligo also share a land border with the North, is the situation as bad in those counties?

Monaghan is 3rd most affected county

podgeandrodge

Tony EH wrote: »

All of those quotes were from January and nearly all of them from a single document, dated Jan 30th...

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-statement-on-ihr-emergency-committee-on-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)

The WHO weren't even in China until February 8th. Until then they only had China's word on what they were doing.

Nearly everyone was speaking in good terms about China's attempts to tackle the Virus too at that time, because as far as everyone was concerned it was China's deal to contain it as best as they could. Even Donald Trump was speaking in glowing terms about China and President Xi in January.

In any case, what good would it have done to immediately start out by calling China liars? Especially when the likes of the WHO weren't even in China at the time. The Chinese would have shut up shop and we'd all be in a worse position.

You don't get cooperation out of countries by calling them a bunch of liars, just to suit some people's political opinions.

Not disagreeing or agreeing with you. I was responding to your point that

Tony EH wrote: »

Either way, the "WHO promotes Chinese agenda" is bunkum, to be kind about it. I don't think the WHO seeks to promote any nation's agenda. It wouldn't serve them any real purpose.

Whatever about when they did it, they did it in a pretty much deferential way:

"As I have said repeatedly since my return from Beijing, the Chinese government is to be congratulated for the extraordinary measures it has taken to contain the outbreak"

"The speed with which China detected the outbreak, isolated the virus, sequenced the genome and shared it with WHO and the world are very impressive, and beyond words. So is China’s commitment to transparency and to supporting other countries."

"In many ways, China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response. It’s not an exaggeration."


"Let me be clear: this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary, WHO continues to have confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak."

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Apple, google and Facebook and the many many other tech companies specialise in luxury items and brands. Would we let them close and leave Ireland if the situation arose?

It's not anywhere near the same.

Some of the products and services provided by these companies have enhanced our lives in many ways. (not all of them)

Alcohol and pubs add very little of value, and contribute a lot negatively.

At the end of the day, it's only my opinion... I would be quite happy to see pubs close down and not open back up again. Perhaps you'll be hoping for Apple to shut down... each to their own!

If pubs were essential businesses, they would probably still be open right now... or be one of the first to open back up after relaxation of restrictions. But they won't be... they'll remain closed for quite a while yet. And life will go on without them.

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Thanks. Its good the WHO clarified their position that they expect most people who have recovered will have antibodies going forward.

A couple of people on here last night tried to claim there was no evidence full stop of immunity after being recovered. Turns out they were wrong as usual.

Nobody tried that.

They were correcting you on your reading comprehension.

Tony EH

political analyst wrote: »

The WHO says there's no evidence that those who have recovered from Covid-19 have immunity to infection second time around. So how can it be determined whether or not they have immunity? If they don't, then does that mean that the virus that causes Covid-19 will never disappear?

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1254160937805926405

They "expect".

They still don't have EVIDENCE.

keynes

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

THERE. WASN’T.

I think their mistake was not dumbing down the tweets and assuming a certain level of reading comprehension skills from the public. They didn’t allow for the dopes of the populace.

A more fundamental question why the hell are they banging out tweets about "no clear evidence" on immunity, human to human transmission etc. This is a complete cop-out. By scientific standards, of course there's no "clear evidence" on anything at this point. So like the organization itself, these musings (and that's all they are) are of no practical value and further underline who useless they are. In the midst of a pandemic, governments want direction, not this nonsense

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The WHO have rowed back on this already and said they expect most people to have immunity, as you already linked to.

They haven't "rowed back" at all.

They still have no evidence regarding immunity.

You only need a Secondary School level of reading comprehension to understand what the tweet below is saying and you've, once again, tried to develop your own take on it.

Remarkable.


https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1254160937805926405?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1254160937805926405&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058071596%26page%3D337