Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Gynoid · 25-04-2020 09:44AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

It's all speculation but if we go by previous coronaviruses, those with a high viral load will be immune.
We cant be definitive but that article is suggesting even if you dont built up immunity it will be the younger asymptomatic patient's who are at risk from getting it a second time.

Gynoid wrote: »

The possibility of getting it again until one gets sufficiently high a viral load to not get it again is not that comforting. High viral load seems to be implicated in a more severe dose.

(Having said that I know next to nothing about that state of affairs on corona immunity, have not been reading about that part.)

jibber5000 wrote: »

I think it's comforting in regards protecting our high risk groups.

Gynoid wrote: »

I don't understand your meaning. If - big IF - one can get it again if the initial viral load was too small to prompt immunity, how can that protect high risk groups?

jibber5000 wrote: »

I mean those who were elderly and hospitalised would theoretically have built up immunity versus an asymptomatic younger person.

Okay. I know its Saturday and I am a bit sleepy but this is not making sense to me. I also believe you work in the medical area so it is likely I am misunderstanding some fundamental.
If - IF! - it takes a higher viral load to develop whatever immunity is available re this virus (unknown at present) then how can it be comforting re high risk groups because those very groups would have to get the higher viral load in the first place to get the immunity. Which would be by definition very risky for them!

speckle · 25-04-2020 09:48AM

owlbethere wrote: »

How do you know this? Is it from a local grapevine or do you have a news article about it?

(still scary)

one who I visited in hospital and another younger man in same ward at the same time.
edit I am not saying this was covid but alot of strange viruses out there probably all the time.

jibber5000 · 25-04-2020 09:52AM

Gynoid wrote: »

Okay. I know its Saturday and I am a bit sleepy but this is not making sense to me. I also believe you work in the medical area so it is likely I am misunderstanding some fundamental.
If - IF! - it takes a higher viral load to develop whatever immunity is available re this virus (unknown at present) then how can it be comforting re high risk groups because those very groups would have to get the higher viral load in the first place to get the immunity. Which would be by definition very risky for them!

I meant comforting to previously hospitalised/sick elderly patients. When they were sick previously, their adaptive immune system would have kicked in thus producing antibodies, protecting them in future.

Versus an asymptomatic/mild infection who's adaptive immune system never had a chance to kick in, thus not producing antibodies and leaving them at risk of reflection.

That's a very brief summation of the theory at least!

is_that_so · 25-04-2020 09:58AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

It is interesting to compare Ireland and New Zealand.

Ireland: 1014 deaths, >9000 active cases
New Zealand: 18 deaths, >325 active cases

Difference? New Zealand put some of the tightest controls on immigration and repatriation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-australia/new-zealand-australia-tighten-lockdown-to-combat-coronavirus-idUSKBN211020

Our HSE initially said that people didn't have to self-isolate even if returning from areas with active outbreaks of the virus, unless they themselves had symptoms. This has lead to a thousand avoidable deaths.

The workers for Keelings presumably don't have to self-isolate. When we start easing restrictions I'm sure we'll have direct flights again from places who have bad outbreaks, and people coming from these locations will not be subject to testing, allowing for a sharp increase in cases.

Although, let's be honest, even with about 40 people a day perishing in Ireland, people here are pretty hard to reign in.

The media predilection for comparing and reviewing country actions during this is not a useful metric IMO. Strategies taken have led to this point and reviews of what was right and wrong can wait until it's over. What we will have available to us are a good few examples of the way to reverse out of the current strategy over the next few months. The risks of missteps there are huge and not just on the actions but also on the very necessary population buy-in.

owlbethere · 25-04-2020 09:58AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Anectodally, I would know of a couple of sudden deaths in covid patients.

One of the health workers in the south east was cutting his lawn in the afternoon and was found dead later that evening.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-tributes-paid-to-kilkenny-hospital-workers-who-died-from-covid-19-1.4230945%3fmode=amp

Impossible to know for sure but deaths as sudden as this are likely to have been caused by a clot to the lung. Bloods from Covid patients have shown high inflammatory markers which are usually an indicator of possible blood clots.

There's still been no objective evidence but I think it's been noted a few times already on this thread.

Edit: not sure if this is close to the edge by bringing up a specific example from a paper given the tragic cirumstances. If so, apologies.

Thank you. That's so sad.

SeaBreezes · 25-04-2020 10:11AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Anectodally, I would know of a couple of sudden deaths in covid patients.

One of the health workers in the south east was cutting his lawn in the afternoon and was found dead later that evening.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-tributes-paid-to-kilkenny-hospital-workers-who-died-from-covid-19-1.4230945%3fmode=amp

Impossible to know for sure but deaths as sudden as this are likely to have been caused by a clot to the lung. Bloods from Covid patients have shown high inflammatory markers which are usually an indicator of possible blood clots.

There's still been no objective evidence but I think it's been noted a few times already on this thread.

Edit: not sure if this is close to the edge by bringing up a specific example from a paper given the tragic cirumstances. If so, apologies.

Wasn't that the most recent breakthrough? That this disease is a blood clotting disease?

Jabbour and his co-author Eytan Raz, an assistant professor of neuroradiology at NYU Langone, said that strokes in covid-19 patients challenge conventional thinking. “We are used to thinking of 60 as a young patient when it comes to large vessel occlusions,” Raz said of the deadliest strokes. “We have never seen so many in their 50s, 40s and late 30s.”

Raz wondered whether they are seeing more young patients because they are more resistant than the elderly to the respiratory distress caused by covid-19: “So they survive the lung side, and in time develop other issues.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

Gynoid · 25-04-2020 10:11AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

I meant comforting to previously hospitalised/sick elderly patients. When they were sick previously, their adaptive immune system would have kicked in thus producing antibodies, protecting them in future.

Versus an asymptomatic/mild infection who's adaptive immune system never had a chance to kick in, thus not producing antibodies and leaving them at risk of reflection.

That's a very brief summation of the theory at least!

It might be. But I believe some studies show elderly people do not produce as good immunity generally from viruses or even vaccinations. Something to do with less or less active T cells. Plus having to go through a dose severe enough to require hospitalisation as an elderly person in order to get the hopeful immunity would not be nice. It would be good however if they did not have to go through it again. For sure. As it would be good news for anyone.

speckle · 25-04-2020 10:14AM

Not in Kansas wrote: »

If you are talking about Celine Byrne, she lives in Naas which is where the housing association also is. All social distancing measures were strictly observed. I know this because I have performed there during the lockdown also. The residents are older people, most living alone in small apartments with no gardens. About half of them have balconies. It was livestreamed for others.

They are trying their best to look after the mental health of the residents and while my own contribution was a pleasant enough distraction, a world class soprano turning up would have been a massive boost for all.

Hiya, as a muscian how are you dealing with the issue that this occupation will be one of the last to come back onstream? Any decent forums where musicians are talking about this and offering solutions especially Irish based ones? thanks.

bilston · 25-04-2020 10:30AM

It's now 11 days since Austria began re-opening some non essential shops.

On the day Austria re-opened these shops (14/4/20) they reported 145 new cases, today, 11 reporting days later, they have reported 77 new cases. Still a bit early to call it a successful relaxation of measures, but so far so good.

Professor Moriarty · 25-04-2020 10:32AM

bilston wrote: »

It's now 11 days since Austria began re-opening some non essential shops.

On the day Austria re-opened these shops (14/4/20) they reported 145 new cases, today, 11 reporting days later, they have reported 77 new cases. Still a bit early to call it a successful relaxation of measures, but so far so good.

Fantastic! Here's hoping.

25-04-2020 10:35AM

Here's some nightmare fuel for the stroke issue in younger adults.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

As Oxley, an interventional neurologist, began the procedure to remove the clot, he observed something he had never seen before. On the monitors, the brain typically shows up as a tangle of black squiggles — “like a can of spaghetti,” he said — that provide a map of blood vessels. A clot shows up as a blank spot. As he used a needlelike device to pull out the clot, he saw new clots forming in real-time around it.

“This is crazy,” he remembers telling his boss.

Funsterdelux · 25-04-2020 10:36AM

1641 wrote: »

Belgium is one of the few countries that is counting all Covid deaths. There are lots of apples, oranges and bananas in those per capita statistics.

Thats why I make sure to sterilise the fruit from the supermarket

mandrake04 · 25-04-2020 10:40AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

It is interesting to compare Ireland and New Zealand.

Ireland: 1014 deaths, >9000 active cases
New Zealand: 18 deaths, >325 active cases

Difference? New Zealand put some of the tightest controls on immigration and repatriation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-australia/new-zealand-australia-tighten-lockdown-to-combat-coronavirus-idUSKBN211020

Our HSE initially said that people didn't have to self-isolate even if returning from areas with active outbreaks of the virus, unless they themselves had symptoms. This has lead to a thousand avoidable deaths.

They also were consistently testing from the start with quick turnaround 24-48hrs most. None of this sitting around in a box for 2-3 weeks and sending them to be tested in another country.

caveat emptor · 25-04-2020 10:45AM

Wow lockdown being taken seriously.

https://www.thejournal.ie/garda-internal-investigation-drug-dealer-5083057-Apr2020/

jackboy · 25-04-2020 10:46AM

speckle wrote: »

I posted early about up to 10 in the southwest had some sort of hand and leg paraylsing virus age 20ish up to 50ish from one area. OR could be water contaimnation etc.

That virus has been going around the west for a few years now.

jibber5000 · 25-04-2020 10:47AM

Danzy wrote: »

The death rate everywhere is higher.

That's not controversial.

Agree. I just think using the example that people were not going to hospital without any evidence wasn't correct.

is_that_so · 25-04-2020 10:50AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

They also were consistently testing from the start with quick turnaround 24-48hrs most. None of this sitting around in a box for 2-3 weeks and sending them to be tested in another country.

NZ has an average population density of 46 people per sq mile, about a quarter of ours. We have had our issues but we did start well enough until every hypochondriac in the country demanded to get tested once the online system was set up. 20,000 requests a day and what was tested was barely at 3% positive some days.

Not in Kansas · 25-04-2020 10:50AM

speckle wrote: »

Hiya, as a muscian how are you dealing with the issue that this occupation will be one of the last to come back onstream? Any decent forums where musicians are talking about this and offering solutions especially Irish based ones? thanks.

Hi there Speckle. I actually work in the field of Arts & Health and people working in that area have been quite active in reaching out to each other to talk about ways to work through the crisis. artsandhealth.ie had a video conference the other day and there is also a global conference coming up.

In terms of giggging musicians and creative artists, the Arts Council have a limited number of supports. The Nialler9 - Irish Music industry Facebook page is a place where questions can be asked and information shared. The key word is: adapt!

Many musicians I know are livestreaming quality home concerts with a PayPal Tip Jar. Many are also offering online lessons or bespoke video tutorials. It's going to be a rocky ride, but look for support anywhere you can. If you find a way to be a musician within your own community you will be surprised at what may pop up.

no.8 · 25-04-2020 10:57AM

RandomName2 wrote:

Difference? New Zealand put some of the tightest controls on immigration and repatriation.

While this is a strong variance, i would not base your hypothesis solely on government lockdown strategies, given other factors that might be at play
(E.g. seasonality, population density etc.)

wakka12 · 25-04-2020 11:01AM

1641 wrote: »

Belgium is one of the few countries that is counting all Covid deaths. There are lots of apples, oranges and bananas in those per capita statistics.

Belgium still has many deaths for its size , regardless of the situation in any other country

Boggles · 25-04-2020 11:06AM

US2 wrote: »

Off to work now, 6am till 6PM 12 long hours of hard work. Hope I'll get a clap. #frontline

I'll actually be working hard in a factory not twiddling my thumbs in an empty ward. Still clap for me tho

Dr Glynn said that of the 3,830 healthcare workers who had contracted coronavirus, 159 had been hospitalised.

Of these, he said that 24 had been admitted to ICU and five had died.

Here is your fúcking clap.

wakka12 · 25-04-2020 11:07AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Here's some nightmare fuel for the stroke issue in younger adults.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

As Oxley, an interventional neurologist, began the procedure to remove the clot, he observed something he had never seen before. On the monitors, the brain typically shows up as a tangle of black squiggles — “like a can of spaghetti,” he said — that provide a map of blood vessels. A clot shows up as a blank spot. As he used a needlelike device to pull out the clot, he saw new clots forming in real-time around it.

“This is crazy,” he remembers telling his boss.

Why is this not being more widely discussed by the media ? Covid is potentially much more dangerous than initially thought

ceadaoin. · 25-04-2020 11:07AM

All this rampant speculation about strokes, heart problems etc is pointless. We won't know anything for sure, from death rate to potential long term effects until after this is all over. I've been reading, and at times, stressing, about this since January, when it was "only" in China.

Its here now (wherever here is for posters,its here), we're dealing with it, successfully in most places. Its not the apocalypse. I'm done stressing. I've done my part to flatten the curve along with most people. It's worked. Now let's gradually get back to whatever normal we can.

25-04-2020 11:09AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Why is this not being more widely discussed by the media ? Covid is potentially much more dangerous than initially thought

Not much can be done about it, and making people who suffer from hypertension even more stressed is counterproductive I suppose.

Ficheall · 25-04-2020 11:14AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

All this rampant speculation about strokes, heart problems etc is pointless.

It's not pointless if it dispels the "it's only old people" notion that people are using to justify selfishly abandoning precautions.

Gynoid · 25-04-2020 11:19AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

All this rampant speculation about strokes, heart problems etc is pointless. We won't know anything for sure, from death rate to potential long term effects until after this is all over. I've been reading, and at times, stressing, about this since January, when it was "only" in China.

Its here now (wherever here is for posters,its here), we're dealing with it, successfully in most places. Its not the apocalypse. I'm done stressing. I've done my part to flatten the curve along with most people. It's worked. Now let's gradually get back to whatever normal we can.

I can understand your POV but it is not pointless to investigate for researchers ( and people are mostly just linking to researchers on the new clotting finds, the he said she said stories are normal human sharing but anecdotal). Plus we cannot wait til all this over to try and know as much as possible about it. We actually need to know as much as possible while in mid stream.

Sure I want it to be over too, I want to see my children again, my siblings, my mother and my dear in laws. My friends. I have not been with ANY of those people in what feels like far too long. I feel lonely for them, especially my children as we get on really well and they make my life the good life it is.
But this thing happened. A new virus we are trying to learn about. Relaxation of restrictions will probably mean increased cases and deaths - that will have to be lived with, it seems. At least a certain amount before we close up again. It's shyte. But it is as you say here. There may not be a normal for a long while as tiring as that may be.

wakka12 · 25-04-2020 11:23AM

The 37 year old twin nurses who died both shared the same underlying health condition. It was not disclosed what the condition was

Ger Roe · 25-04-2020 11:24AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

All this rampant speculation about strokes, heart problems etc is pointless. We won't know anything for sure, from death rate to potential long term effects until after this is all over. I've been reading, and at times, stressing, about this since January, when it was "only" in China.

Its here now (wherever here is for posters,its here), we're dealing with it, successfully in most places. Its not the apocalypse. I'm done stressing. I've done my part to flatten the curve along with most people. It's worked. Now let's gradually get back to whatever normal we can.

It hasn't worked yet... not flat enough to consider going back to near normal yet and cases in the community are still too high. CMO said two days ago that if it was May 5th then, he would not be lifting restrictions. We have to do better to avoid being back at worse than our highest point so far.

owlbethere · 25-04-2020 11:25AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's some nightmare fuel for the stroke issue in younger adults.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

As Oxley, an interventional neurologist, began the procedure to remove the clot, he observed something he had never seen before. On the monitors, the brain typically shows up as a tangle of black squiggles — “like a can of spaghetti,” he said — that provide a map of blood vessels. A clot shows up as a blank spot. As he used a needlelike device to pull out the clot, he saw new clots forming in real-time around it.

“This is crazy,” he remembers telling his boss.

Christ almighty

podgeandrodge · 25-04-2020 11:25AM

Gynoid wrote: »

I can understand your POV but it is not pointless to investigate for researchers ( and people are mostly just linking to researchers on the new clotting finds, the he said she said stories are normal human sharing but anecdotal). Plus we cannot wait til all this over to try and know as much as possible about it. We actually need to know as much as possible while in mid stream.

Sure I want it to be over too, I want to see my children again, my siblings, my mother and my dear in laws. My friends. I have not been with ANY of those people in what feels like far too long. I feel lonely for them, especially my children as we get on really well and they make my life the good life it is.
But this thing happened. A new virus we are trying to learn about. Relaxation of restrictions will probably mean increased cases and deaths - that will have to be lived with, it seems. At least a certain amount before we close up again. It's shyte. But it is as you say here. There may not be a normal for a long while as tiring as that may be.

That's the big question isn't it. It would seem likely that this will be the new reality, and once the health service can cope on an on-going basis, something that becomes the new flu. (Not that I would compare this to flu :eek:)

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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