Garda Checks

Geuze · 25-04-2020 01:54AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Crazy over the top.

Was it really necessary to arrest you?

The poster was not arrested.

25-04-2020 01:59AM

Geuze wrote: »

The poster was not arrested.

Really?

25-04-2020 02:04AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As described in the post you quoted, the poster was asked where he was coming/going, and gave a legitimate answer.

That should have been enough to send him on his way without the Garda's opinions on what shop he should buy his goods in.

I know you and several others here are Gardai yourselves but getting so defensive and dramatic whenever a negative experience is mentioned does neither you nor your colleagues any favours

It's not a negative, it's an over reaction by someone that was wrong but was still treated reasonable.

By your rationale, just tell the Gardai any old ****e and away ya go? Why even bother with the checks?

Sorry, it's essential travel and a shop selling bread is a shop selling bread. You liking the bread 20km away more than the bread 500 metres away doesn't make it essential. Being ADVISED of that fact for next time is very much within the acceptable and lower level responses.

And again I will point out the extremes in this thread. People complaining about lack of enforcement, others complaining that they were given advise.

Advise. Not arrested, not turned around, advised. The poster needs to cop on and stop being so easily offended by the world.

Strumms · 25-04-2020 02:06AM

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Some guards seem to really get off on having that extra bit of power. I was stopped at a mini-checkpoint earlier after doing a bit of shopping and the guard asked where I was coming from/going to. I told him where I lived and that I was coming back from Tesco (around 2km from home). He then asked why I didn't go to SuperValu (around 1km from home) instead. I explained that Tesco is bigger, the queue is usually shorter and they're more likely to have everything I want. I thought he'd be fine with that, but nope, he told me I should've gone to SuperValu instead. I wasn't interested in arguing, so I told him I'd bear that in mind in future.

Seemed a bit over the top, to put it mildly.

There is no law that says you need to go to your nearest shop so if a Garda started this craic with me I’d be giving him short shrift and requesting he buzzes off and gets about acting professionally and being of some use to the state that are paying his wages, instead of being an ignoramus, trying to enforce laws that don’t exist and getting paid for it.

The nearest shop to me is a Tesco express about half a kilometer away, it doesn’t have everything I need and is expensive as fûck The big SuperValu which is 1km away is a one stop shop for everything I need. Within the 2 km limit so any craic from a numbnuts about dictating where I’m going within the 2kms won’t be replied to with any great degree of kindness. :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_ · 25-04-2020 02:09AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

On that basis then just tell the Gardai any old ****e and away ya go? Why even bother with the checks?

Sorry, it's essential travel and a shop selling bread is a shop selling bread. You liking the bread 20km away more than the bread 500 metres away doesn't make it essential.

Being ADVISED of that fact for next time is very much within the acceptable responses.

And again I will point out the extremes in this thread. People complaining about lack of enforcement, others complaining that they were given advise. Advise. Not arrested, not turned around, nothing.

The poster needs to build a bridge and accept that it could have been worse.

Wrong - the Garda in question needs to stop acting beyond the level of his authority and the spirit of the restrictions. A legitimate answer and reason was given but the member decided to argue it anyway. Not good enough.

It could have been worse is exactly the issue with AGS as a whole. No consistency, massive variance in quality of officer, resulting in the "it depends on who you get" that should have no place in a modern police force.

As I said, attitudes like the Garda in question, and indeed your own over the top defensive response to the poster, do ye no favours with the public you are there to serve, not harass

25-04-2020 02:09AM

Ah here, the guards cant tell you what supermarket to do your shopping in!

25-04-2020 02:16AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wrong - the Garda in question needs to stop acting beyond the level of his authority and the spirit of the restrictions. A legitimate answer and reason was given but the member decided to argue it anyway. Not good enough.

It could have been worse is exactly the issue with AGS as a whole. No consistency, massive variance in quality of officer, resulting in the "it depends on who you get" that should have no place in a modern police force.

As I said, attitudes like the Garda in question, and indeed your own over the top defensive response to the poster, do ye no favours with the public you are there to serve, not harass

Oh would you every cop on. Go make ANOTHER complaint. That's your weekly event isn't it?

We have every right to ask you where you are traveling and every right to turn you around if it's not essential. Traveling past multiple shops because the q is shorter elsewhere is not essential. In fact look at the Twitter account and you will see Gardai have turned people around and sent them back.

And again I will point out that by your reasoning there really is no point in the restrictions or Gardai enforcing them when someone can travel as far as they want once they come up with an excuse.

I do take your point regarding the Garda you get, we should abandon discretion entirely and use powers of arrest at all stages. Be more American. That make it better?

Also, my oath is actually to uphold the Constitution and protect the peace by the way. No mention of serving anyone. I'm not a Butler.

Oops! · 25-04-2020 02:22AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's not a negative, it's an over reaction by someone that was wrong but was still treated reasonable.

By your rationale, just tell the Gardai any old ****e and away ya go? Why even bother with the checks?

Sorry, it's essential travel and a shop selling bread is a shop selling bread. You liking the bread 20km away more than the bread 500 metres away doesn't make it essential. Being ADVISED of that fact for next time is very much within the acceptable and lower level responses.

And again I will point out the extremes in this thread. People complaining about lack of enforcement, others complaining that they were given advise.

Advise. Not arrested, not turned around, advised. The poster needs to cop on and stop being so easily offended by the world.

:rolleyes: Another fantastic post, if you are what you say you are it's that sort of attitude is everything that's wrong with the Gardai.... As a retired gent said to me a few years ago... Gone are the days when most of them came out of Templemore with common sence....

_Kaiser_ · 25-04-2020 02:23AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Oh would you every cop on. Go make ANOTHER complaint. That's your weekly event.

We have every, I repeat every right to ask you where you are traveling and every right to turn you around if it's not essential. Traveling past multiple shops because the q is shorter elsewhere is not essential. In fact look at the Twitter account and you will see Gardai have turned people around and sent them back.

And again I will point out that by your resonate there really is no point in the restrictions it Gardai enforcing them when someone can recall as far as they want once they come up with an excuse.

I do take your point regarding the Garda you get, we should abandon discretion entirely and use pets of arrest at all stages. That make it better?

My oath is actually to uphold the Constitution and protect the peace by the way. No mention of serving anyone. I'm not a Butler.

Your attitude is exactly what's wrong with AGS and why the force needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up.

Your opening line (again very defensive and playing the man not the ball) but it's Gardai like you by the sound of it that are the problem, not the solution. You seem to think you're there to be obeyed, not questioned or challenged - wrong again.

You might want to check that oath again as your own commissioner said only recently that AGS enforces by the will and consent of the people. You are certainly not a law onto yourselves.

Strumms · 25-04-2020 02:27AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

We have every right to ask you where you are traveling and every right to turn you around if it's not essential. Traveling past multiple shops because the q is shorter elsewhere is not essential.

Also, my oath is actually to uphold the Constitution and protect the peace by the way. No mention of serving anyone. I'm not a Butler.

It might be indeed essential. One example if you were a caregiver and were on a break and had to return within a certain timeframe having bought essential supplies, that’s one example. Your attitude is completely crap btw.

25-04-2020 02:34AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Your attitude is exactly what's wrong with AGS and why the force needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up.

Your opening line (again very defensive and playing the man not the ball) but it's Gardai like you by the sound of it that are the problem, not the solution. You seem to think you're there to be obeyed, not questioned or challenged - wrong again.

You might want to check that oath again as your own commissioner said only recently that AGS enforces by the will and consent of the people. You are certainly not a law onto yourselves.

Curious now, how does the commissioner say we police with consent change the oath I took into "I shall serve"? It's an oath. I took it. Doesn't change with time. I'm not told to keep taking new ones. The commissioner repeating something said back in 1922(?) Doesn't change that nor is it stating we are here to serve. It means we police the people with consent of the people. Which remains true. We do police with consent mostly and again I would point to the multiple posts here demanding stronger Garda intervention. We however can't wait for consent from the person we are seeking to take action against. I would assume you can see how foolish that would be.

So again I ask, do you want us style policing? What's your definition of 'essential travel'? Do you think Gardai should just take the word of all motorists that are stopped?

I am not here to be challenged or questioned by you when I do my job. That may sounds arrogant but it's true. You have gsoc, inspectorate, my own superiors and finally, the courts for that. They can challenge how I operate (zero upheld complaints by the way. 2 bogey ones by people who amazingly, felt aggrieved at being told too follow the same rules as everyone else). Don't you find it strange though that you should be allowed challenge me but I'm not allowed challenge the op?

Your entire post is littered with double standards by the way.

25-04-2020 02:41AM

Strumms wrote: »

It might be indeed essential. One example if you were a caregiver and were on a break and had to return within a certain timeframe having bought essential supplies,

Wouldn't you have bought those essential supplies from a nearby location in the first place though? The lockdown didn't just happen. It's going on a while now.

But that's not what happened in the situation. Your pulling scenarios from thin air to justify a position that was taken under different circumstances.

You are also suggesting that Gardai should just not really bother and let everyone go as they please.

Better Than Christ · 25-04-2020 02:41AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Crazy over the top.

Was it really necessary to arrest you? Pull you from the car? Seize your goods? Demand your id?

Oh, he didn't do any of those things? Just made a suggestion in a civil and polite manner? The absolute barbarian. They'll be raping and pillaging next!

(On a serious note any chance of some consistently? This lad reckons a chat is excessive. Another poster wants Gardai to do hell for leather and steady everyone)

I didn't suggest he was being anything other than a bit of a dick. And not a very polite one either. I got the impression from his manner that it might not have ended well for me if I had told him that it was absolutely none of his business whether I choose to go to SuperValu or Tesco in the same small town and that I won't be taking his advice.

Niner leprauchan wrote:

You liking the bread 20km away more than the bread 500 metres away doesn't make it essential.

Except that's not what happened. I simply wanted to avoid the queues in a small and cramped shop 1km away, so went to a larger and safer one 2km away instead. There was no valid reason for the guard to question that. I actually thought he was joking at first.

Thankfully most guards I've encountered over the last few weeks have a bit more common sense and don't go looking for unnecessary arguments with law-abiding people.

25-04-2020 02:46AM

Look, Gardai cannot tell you what supermarket to do your shopping in.
If a person is travelling 50km to go to a shop, when there are shops closer, then yea, that is probably an unnecessary journey.
Supermarkets in the same town? Or within a few miles of each other?
No, none of their business where you, or anyone does the shopping.

Oops! · 25-04-2020 02:47AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Curious now, how does the commissioner say we police with consent change the oath I took into "I shall serve"? It's an oath. I took it. Doesn't change with time. I'm not told to keep taking new ones. The commissioner repeating something said back in 1922(?) Doesn't change that nor is it stating we are here to serve. It means we police the people with consent of the people. Which remains true. We do police with consent mostly and again I would point to the multiple posts here demanding stronger Garda intervention. We however can't wait for consent from the person we are seeking to take action against. I would assume you can see how foolish that would be.

So again I ask, do you want us style policing? What's your definition of 'essential travel'? Do you think Gardai should just take the word of all motorists that are stopped?

I am not here to be challenged or questioned by you when I do my job. That may sounds arrogant but it's true. You have gsoc, inspectorate, my own superiors and finally, the courts for that. They can challenge how I operate (zero upheld complaints by the way. 2 bogey ones by people who amazingly, felt aggrieved at being told too follow the same rules as everyone else). Don't you find it strange though that you should be allowed challenge me but I'm not allowed challenge the op?

Your entire post is littered with double standards by the way.

Your right it does sound arrogant... It hasn't really worked out well in the past when GSOC or any superiors has investigated anything in the past has it? I could type out a long list......

Accountability was never high on the list of priorities was it?

Easy numbers and stuff just whitewashed over, but that's a completely new thread....

25-04-2020 02:50AM

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I didn't suggest he was being anything other than a bit of a dick. And not a very polite one either. I got the impression from his manner that it might not have ended well for me if I had told him that it was absolutely none of his business whether I choose to go to SuperValu or Tesco in the same small town and that I won't be taking his advice.

Except that's not what happened. I simply wanted to avoid the queues in a small and cramped shop 1km away, so went to a larger and safer one 2km away instead. There was no valid reason for the guard to question that. I actually thought he was joking at first.

Thankfully most guards I've encountered over the last few weeks have a bit more common sense and don't go looking for unnecessary arguments with law-abiding people.

I know. And my suggestion is you are get easily offended by someone stating an opinion.

The reality is, regardless of how I would have dealt with you and regardless of how I personally feel about travelling the extra 1km, it wasn't essential. It was desirable. I get that. I don't always go to the local shop either but let's not pretend that the word 'essential' has changed definition to include avoiding a longer wait at the till.

Based on that and again while I may not have responded the same way, the response was still within acceptance limits. If he cursed or abused you, shoutted? yeah that's not defendable. Making a suggestion that's actually correct? Acceptable.

25-04-2020 02:53AM

Oops! wrote: »

Your right it does sound arrogant... It hasn't really worked out well in the past when GSOC or any superiors has investigated anything in the past has it? I could type out a long list......

Accountability was never high on the list of priorities was it?

Easy numbers and stuff just whitewashed over, but that's a completely new thread....

Was that me? Worked out fine for me when they investigated me. I was cleared.

Oh wait, no you just have no argument about the subject at hand so instead will throw mud at the organisation in general. Gotcha.

Oops! · 25-04-2020 02:56AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Was that me?

Oh wait, no you just have no argument about the subject at hand so instead will throw mud at the organisation in general. Gotcha.

Your just proving my point now.... I did comment on the subject.

Oops! · 25-04-2020 02:58AM

Sorry, got the reply in before you edited your comment.

25-04-2020 02:59AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Look, Gardai cannot tell you what supermarket to do your shopping in.
If a person is travelling 50km to go to a shop, when there are shops closer, then yea, that is probably an unnecessary journey.
Supermarkets in the same town? Or within a few miles of each other?
No, none of their business where you, or anyone does the shopping.

You are confusing yourself. First you say none of their business, then you say it is, then you say no again.

It either is or isn't and at the moment, it is. How that information is dealt with comes down to common sense.

I assume you have read the act? Essential means now what it did last year.

If you can buy the product locally, traveling further is not essential. Kaiser wants a black and white uniform response so that means no discretion. No discretion means the letter of the law.

25-04-2020 03:01AM

Oops! wrote: »

Your just proving my point now.... I did comment on the subject.

Not really. You just threw mud.

The subject is what's essential travel and if the Gardai have a right to ask and make suggestions about it.

Fyi, common sense is exactly what Kaiser is complaining about. He wants the law enforcement to the letter by every officer.

Better Than Christ · 25-04-2020 03:16AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The reality is, regardless of how I would have dealt with you and regardless of how I personally feel about travelling the extra 1km, it wasn't essential. It was desirable. I get that. I don't always go to the local shop either but let's not pretend that the word 'essential' has changed definition to include avoiding a longer wait at the till.

It wasn't just about avoiding a longer wait at the till, or doing my shopping in a safer, less crowded environment. I went to the shop that (based on previous experiences) is more likely to have all of the items that I need. That falls under the remit of an essential journey. I explained this to the guard, but he didn't want to know. If I was to stretch his logic to its conclusion, I should have avoided both supermarkets and done all my shopping in a petrol station, which is even closer to my home.

Quantum Erasure · 25-04-2020 04:53AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

the question was more for niner, how would he respond if someone asked him 'what are you stopping me for, when theres a crowd down the road there...?'

But the crowd wasn't down the road from a checkpoint was it?

...

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Didn't report it, Stevie Wonder could see the large amount of cars parked up.
There's been checkpoints near there but they were just checking traffic using the main road to and from Wexford.

25-04-2020 06:23AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You are confusing yourself. First you say none of their business, then you say it is, then you say no again.

It either is or isn't and at the moment, it is. How that information is dealt with comes down to common sense.

I assume you have read the act? Essential means now what it did last year.

If you can buy the product locally, traveling further is not essential. Kaiser wants a black and white uniform response so that means no discretion. No discretion means the letter of the law.

Common sense.
I can assure you I'm not confusing myself. Gardai do not have the right to tell people what shop to shop in.

25-04-2020 07:34AM

Still plenty of checkpoints around Dublin anyway, for those of you who want plenty of police presence!
Stopped once yesterday morning on my way home & once last night on my way to work & twice on the way home this morning

It's funny my mother was telling me a story about a woman in my home town who travelled to our nearest big centre, its in Northern Ireland. All anyone complained about was the fact she wasn't stopped by any Gardai or psni.......

JustAThought · 25-04-2020 07:59AM

I’d like to see some of the romanians and itinerants being taken into cells and left there for a day or so - every day they are begging at the entrance to our local supermarket and chemist which is only accessible through a long narrow communal passageway. It beggars belief that the one source of contaminant that sits there all day whom no-one can get by without passing is allowed remain in place while the gaurda station is ten paces away and they remain blind to it. Seems there is one law and emergency situation for the population but the usual criminal scum are just let do what they want regardless of the consequences to the law abiding public. I have rung and spoken to the gaurds and complained about this but they say there is nothing they can do and they are not a taxi service. The romanians are coming in on the bus which is supposed to be used for essential personnel only and relay begging and congregating at a place where sick and high risk people need to go is not a vital journey. It just sickens me.In the meantime the same gaurds are ‘patrolling’ the roads and beaches 2 minutes away but utterly ignoring the shopping and chemist entranceway begging and footpath knackerdrinking. Usual selective policing.

25-04-2020 08:14AM

Yesterday was like normal times going around. Loads of traffic, any car park at a shop was packed and people going around in groups everywhere. The retail park at Tesco in Maynooth looked like it was the Saturday before Christmas.
There’s been too much good news the past few days and people have stopped giving a ****, so we definitely need more checks and the Gardai to come down like a ton of bricks on everyone.

Wibbs · 25-04-2020 08:52AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Wouldn't you have bought those essential supplies from a nearby location in the first place though? The lockdown didn't just happen. It's going on a while now.

But that's not what happened in the situation. Your pulling scenarios from thin air to justify a position that was taken under different circumstances.

You are also suggesting that Gardai should just not really bother and let everyone go as they please.

you're right the lockdown is going on a while now, so how on the 10th of this month when the country was under lockdown did a group of families of Travellers from the UK come in via Dublin port(or worse if it was Rosslare) with caravans in tow and make it to the Curragh and then set up an illegal encampment without apparently any interference from any authorities including the Gardai?

Apparently the Gardai are "conscious of Covid-19 adherence for Curragh Traveller settlement". Conscious eh? Isn't that great. I wonder how far I'd get trailing a caravan out of Dublin? Apparently some are let "go as they please".

Oh and before the traveller bashing accusations... Nope. That any group of people can flout the restrictions during the biggest health crisis in the history of the state is the issue here. It shows how actually ineffectually and half arsed our so called authorities have and continue to operate during this crisis. It shows zero border control, zero health checks, zero options for quarantine. Were any of those people tested? Unlikely, as testing has been variable to say the least. Ditto for contact tracing which has been piecemeal. Social distancing? highly unlikely.

JustAThought · 25-04-2020 09:01AM

At a 3 lane checkpoint on the way to Naas about 2 weeks ago there were at least ten trailers/mobile homes being towed by boyos in white vans and they - unlike many others - were not being automatically told to turn around . Passed a high crime prosecution itinerant ‘camp’ last week - they were racing their sulkys up and down the 3 lane road outside the camp - not a gaurd in sight despite a huge local garda station & it in close proximity to a big shopping centre. Same place this week had half their caravans gone - they are definately being let move around and do what they want - same **** as usual.

PCeeeee · 25-04-2020 09:15AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I am not here to be challenged or questioned by you when I do my job.

I was going to respond to this as I found it to be a disturbing attitude that I hope isn't shared by many Gardai.

But honestly I think I'll just leave it here quoted so everyone can see it.

Garda Checks

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