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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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Comments

  • #542
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    As well as we're doing, I get the feeling the current lockdown will be extended to June 2nd before another review.

    Varadkar has said "However, he cautioned that certain stricter measures might have to be introduced."

    Weather than means we follow the Spanish or Italian lockdowns and remove the 2km allowance for exercise completely, and only once a day allowance to leave your home for essential medical or food supplies and with a signed form required...

    I know all we're doing is speculating, but I think you're missing quite a bit of context there.

    As reported by RTE:
    Mr Varadkar said extreme vigilance was required and everything must be done to avoid a second wave of Covid-19.

    He said there would be a gradual and stepwise easing of restrictions, with time between measures to monitor their effect.

    However, he cautioned that certain stricter measures might have to be introduced.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134246-dail-covid-19/

    To my mind, that is nowhere near saying anything about continuing the current restrictions for another month, let along signed permissions or leaving the house once a day.

    My feeling is, given that care homes are the current hot zones for cases and transmission, that we'll possibly see stricter restrictions regarding them and their staff. That could be one example of "certain stricter measures", while we see easing in other areas of life. Again, total and utter speculation on my part, but I think it's speculation that fits in better with what's being said that claiming that we could introduce measures that Spain and Italy are already talking about lifting.


  • #543
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,275 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    one of my neighbours just took an overdose. he had been distraught that he had become so isolated in his home due to the restrictions (not being allowed visit his neighbours and friends) and this is only 6 weeks into lockdown, what will things be like if we have to deal with months of these restrictions?

    Your neighbour must have had other problems to begin with


  • #544
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭pgj2015


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Your neighbour must have had other problems to begin with




    like all the people who did likewise during the last recession? you don't have to have other problems to do that. sometimes events can make people do things they might never have thought about before.


  • #545
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    To my mind, that is nowhere near saying anything about signed permissions or leaving the house once a day.
    I would take that as merely rolling back to the prior level of restrictions if any particular phase sees a big hike.


  • #546
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Your neighbour must have had other problems to begin with

    Assuming this anecdote is genuine your answer is glib.


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  • #547
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/large-crowd-at-funeral-of-crash-victim-as-guidelines-are-ignored-39150539.html

    Things like that make my blood boil

    That could very well lead to a spike in cases in a few weeks time


  • #548
    Nitrogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Nitrogan


    If jobs are more important than risk to life then there are a lot of laws/restrictions which should be revoked.

    Smoking ban, drinking driving, health and safety in general. Get people back to work, people are going to die of stuff anyway.


  • #549
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves




  • #550
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Nitrogan wrote: »
    If jobs are more important than risk to life then there are a lot of laws/restrictions which should be revoked.

    Smoking ban, drinking driving, health and safety in general. Get people back to work, people are going to die of stuff anyway.

    This is exactly the attitude of several posters on here.


  • #551
    lord quackinton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 352 ✭✭lord quackinton


    The decision made by the government and backed by many middle class people was

    Lockdown to save lives of those at risk due to the dreadful state of our hospitals and nursing homes
    It was known that decision Would put thousands of people In extreme poverty including children

    Many here say the lockdown was to save lives and to protect the vulnerable
    The choice was to protect the health care staff and elderly or hundreds of thousands whose lives are ruined
    Families forced into poverty and the children who are now part of the welfare class
    No jobs and no hope

    I feel sorry for those people but mostly I feel sorry for those Posters here who will not admit the lockdown will harm more then it will save
    May God forgive you for your arrogance and lack of empathy


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  • #552
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Your neighbour must have had other problems to begin with

    You could equally say that about the people who die from Covid-19.


  • #553
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Nitrogan wrote: »
    If jobs are more important than risk to life then there are a lot of laws/restrictions which should be revoked.

    Smoking ban, drinking driving, health and safety in general. Get people back to work, people are going to die of stuff anyway.

    Conversely, lets ban motor cars, cigarettes, excess sugar, and make exercise and fasting mandatory since health and biological life-span are now the only criteria of governance.


  • #554
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Just back from a walk around Dublin city and there’s a marked increase in shops, cafes and offices being reopened over the last day or 2.


  • #555
    leahyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/large-crowd-at-funeral-of-crash-victim-as-guidelines-are-ignored-39150539.html

    Things like that make my blood boil

    That could very well lead to a spike in cases in a few weeks time

    RIP to the woman and all but how are certain groups in society treated differently when it comes to funerals at the moment??


  • #556
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    the lockdown will harm more then it will save

    How exactly are you measuring that?


  • #557
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    growleaves wrote: »
    Conversely, lets ban motor cars, cigarettes, excess sugar, and make exercise and fasting mandatory since health and biological life-span are now the only criteria of governance.

    I would be 100 percent in favour of banning this particular one.


  • #558
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Is there any evidence that the 2km restriction achieves anything at all except stress and crowding?

    I get badly freaked out by physical restrictions in general. Not a fan of the 2km thing at all. Don't know how apartment dwellers cope.


  • #559
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    I would be 100 percent in favour of banning this particular one.

    In fact so would I. But would you be in favour of banning alcohol too?

    The point is 'saving lives' isn't the sole criteria for legislation. If it was there'd be few or no cars allowed on the road.


  • #560
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,275 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Riya Round Rant wrote: »
    Don't know how apartment dwellers cope.

    What difference would being in an apartment make? You can still go out and about all day if you like within 2km.


  • #561
    Spencer Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Spencer Brown


    growleaves wrote: »
    In fact so would I. But would you be in favour of banning alcohol too?

    The point is 'saving lives' isn't the sole criteria for legislation. If it was there'd be few or no cars allowed on the road.

    Not comparable. Alcohol is absolutely fine when consumed in moderation, in fact some scientists say it may even be beneficial. Cigarettes are never safe.


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  • #562
    brendanL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭brendanL


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    What difference would being in an apartment make? You can still go out and about all day if you like within 2km.

    Well.. the lack of out door space to enjoy / ie bbq spot with the weather getting nice. Ability to have a pet etc.. it can change a lot - it's not massively better but it would be an improvement... just myself and partner in ours but I can see kids going a bit bonkers in the apartment common areas more and more each evening now...


  • #563
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    The decision made by the government and backed by many middle class people was

    Lockdown to save lives of those at risk due to the dreadful state of our hospitals and nursing homes
    It was known that decision Would put thousands of people In extreme poverty including children

    Many here say the lockdown was to save lives and to protect the vulnerable
    The choice was to protect the health care staff and elderly or hundreds of thousands whose lives are ruined
    Families forced into poverty and the children who are now part of the welfare class
    No jobs and no hope

    I feel sorry for those people but mostly I feel sorry for those Posters here who will not admit the lockdown will harm more then it will save
    May God forgive you for your arrogance and lack of empathy

    Pot, Kettle, Black.


  • #564
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Riya Round Rant wrote: »
    Is there any evidence that the 2km restriction achieves anything at all except stress and crowding?

    My guess is that it's an arbitrary number in itself. But you have to remember that it was brought in coming up to a long weekend where the was a genuine fear that people were going to be travelling some distances to get out and about, thus mixing populations and potentially spreading the disease in an uncontrollable fashion. The restriction also served to focus our minds on the general concept that we should restrict our physically social activity to a minimum. People react much better and consistently to a rule than a guideline.


  • #565
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    seamusk84 wrote: »
    Not going to happen. There are genuine concerns of the damage to people’s mental health now and also economic carnage. I can 100% assure you it won’t be extended.

    2km limit to go and restaurants and business allowed reopen with strict restrictions. Intense monitoring and testing will begin properly to keep track of any spikes.

    Genuinely there is no way there will be an extension until June. Not sure where you got that from?

    Where do you get such conviction from?


  • #566
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    My guess is that it's an arbitrary number in itself. But you have to remember that it was brought in coming up to a long weekend where the was a genuine fear that people were going to be travelling some distances to get out and about, thus mixing populations and potentially spreading the disease in an uncontrollable fashion. The restriction also served to focus our minds on the general concept that we should restrict our physically social activity to a minimum. People react much better and consistently to a rule than a guideline.
    It's a blunt instrument that needs to be refined, replaced or just dropped.


  • #567
    seamusk84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭seamusk84


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Where do you get such conviction from?

    Mark my words!


  • #568
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Riya Round Rant wrote: »
    It's a blunt instrument that needs to be refined, replaced or just dropped.

    And I guess that's why it was implemented for a limited period, but it's not going to be changed before the 5th of May, that much seems certain.


  • #569
    Cal4567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    I was stopped at a checkpoint this morning....


    Everyone I've heard - Leo, CMO, etc etc - have all, without exepctions, said the relaxation of measure will be step-wise, observing the effects of each step as they happen for an increase in infections. They have also said that the start of the relaxations only MAY happen on 5/5 - it all depends on where the numbers, and more importantly the testing capabilities, are by then.


    I don't know where posters are getting this "guaranteed it's all over on 5th May" attitude from!


    My biggest concern is that they really don't seem to have got a handle on the testing - there's not a lot of detail being given about it, and any that is given seems to be vague or fudged somehow.



    I really don't know what the problem is, but my gut feeling is that there is a problem with ramping testing up to the point where we can relax restrictions - and I really wish they'd be clearer and more up front about it.



    The posters with the "guaranteed it's all over on 5th May" attitude are all those who've been against this from the start. In early March, they were 'it's only a flu' brigade, then they were appalled at the mere mention of Paddys Day being cancelled. Since the lockdown they have been demanding easing of restrictions. I suspect they are losing financially big time. So am I. I'm a small business owner.

    I value saving a life over my profits. The small decrease and easing in restrictions now is the safe way to go. I'm happy to take the experts advice here.


  • #570
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,319 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Riya Round Rant wrote: »
    It's a blunt instrument that needs to be refined, replaced or just dropped.
    The non-blunt instrument of asking people nicely to observe social distancing the weekend before the restrictions were actually brought in didn't work very well!


    I'd hate to be in charge of trying to roll this whole shebang back - I have visions of the whole country going absolutely bananas the minute even one word is mentioned about "restrictions relaxed" :eek:


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  • #571
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »

    My biggest concern is that they really don't seem to have got a handle on the testing - there's not a lot of detail being given about it, and any that is given seems to be vague or fudged somehow.



    I really don't know what the problem is, but my gut feeling is that there is a problem with ramping testing up to the point where we can relax restrictions - and I really wish they'd be clearer and more up front about it.

    Testing or lack of is what stuffed it up for you guys, I work in healthcare mostly Tomography in hospitals in Australia and I been tested 3 times as I have to sign decelerations on my health. Ok I had sore throat my tonsils are swollen got 2 tests back before 9am next day and one same day all neg. How can you clear someone to return to work or properly contract trace if positive you are waiting 2-3 days for a result?

    This business of sending tests Germany 2 weeks after the swab is taken is BS, the samples are at their best when they have just been collected storing them is possible but you have backlogs of 1000s of samples and handling them or leaving them sitting around for weeks is less reliable ....to get accurate results bung them in Analyser ASAP ffs.


This discussion has been closed.
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