Is it just me or have SF vanished?

all about the mane · 22-04-2020 08:17PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Eamon ryan wont get this deal through the greens imo?

Theres no appitide in greens to be fall guys for ff/fg again no matter how much they rub his ego...took near on a decade to get back to where they are

Why throw it away for few handy pensions???,their front canditdate profile is quiet young and most have 20 plus years left in politics,would seem foolish to me,to go in with ff/fg from a long term view?

The shinnerz were lambasted by some in 2016 for not going in,deos anyone still think this is a mistake given their performance last election?

No reason the greens cant be largest party in state in few years,if they play their cards right imo

Plenty still haven’t forgiven the greens. I surprise how long the electorate’s memory had been in relation to them considering how short it is with most other things

Yurt2 · 22-04-2020 08:17PM

all about the mane wrote: »

Ye must be raging ye are down to 4th choice now...after ‘winning’ the election

You're a nasty sexist mane. That's the only point to be made here. Politics doesn't even come into it.

all about the mane · 22-04-2020 08:18PM

Yurt! wrote: »

You're a nasty sexist mane. That's the only point to be made here. Politics doesn't even come into it.

Whatever makes you feel better

James Brown · 22-04-2020 08:20PM

Edgware wrote: »

Of course he's not.
One day in power is worth a 100 in opposition.
We have enough ***** like the SDs sitting on the fence and looking forward to five years whinging. Joint leaders me arse!

The only party leader to come out and say he relished going into opposition, and to much applause on these boards, was Varadkar. So give over.

Leo offering the Greens the power seat is like a pat on the head for them and knee in the liathróidí for MM.

Yurt2 · 22-04-2020 08:21PM

all about the mane wrote: »

Whatever makes you feel better

Try to keep the quality of your posts up would you? You spent an inordinate amount of time slating a woman with outright sexist terms and having a cut at her when she had covid19.

You're low-quality and a tremendous bore. This isn't about politics, it's about class, and you have none of it.

all about the mane · 22-04-2020 08:24PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Try to keep the quality of your posts up would you? You spent an inordinate amount of time slating a woman with outright sexist terms and having a cut at her when she had covid19.

You're low-quality and a tremendous bore.

Damn right I’ve slated her. She has made an absolute shambles of things since the election. And her with notions of Taoiseach. Hilarious.

blanch152 · 22-04-2020 08:27PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I have never in my life voted for SF before this election and I gave them my #2 in my constituency, where I normally put all four major parties at the very bottom of my ballot paper. I know many, many, many people my age (mid twenties to thirty) who gave them a high or first preference after never being interested in voting for them before this year.

What changed since 2016? Rents went through the f*cking roof, peoples quality of life was utterly decimated from it compared with what people had become accustomed to, and Fine Gael's complete and utter pr!ck of a housing minister was insufferably smug about it, suggesting that people should be happy to be paying far more for far, far sh!ttier living conditions (specifically, describing the BARTA sh!te for €1,400 a month as a "boutique hotel" where you could rent a decent self contained studio for half that only a few years previous) while simultaneously and very publicly blocking the construction of proper social housing (the O'Devaney development was probably the biggest flashpoint among people in my social circle, at least from my own anecdotal observations).

Here's the thing: That issue is not going away unless someone actually does something about it. Fine Gael are ideologically opposed to doing what needs to be done. Fianna Fail are, in their current iteration, ideologically opposed to doing what needs to be done. Both parties are directly responsible in different ways for the crisis we have in housing. The generation of voters who have experienced and are experiencing this clusterf*ck over the last two years are not going anywhere. FFG are not going to solve the problem, ergo this cohort of voters is never going to vote for them. And even if they do solve it, they will not be forgiven for the "let them eat cake" attitude they displayed, particularly throughout 2019 (I'm talking specifically about their attitude and the smugness with which they happily condemned a whole generation to a sh!t quality of life and acted as if that was something we should just learn to live with).

The reason SF surged between their disastrous LE performance and their incredible GE performance is because the crisis boiled over during the summer of 2019. So many people I know who had been renting since the middle of this decade were evicted for one reason or another and returned after just a few short years to a rental market which expected them to pay orders of magnitude more than they had being paying for orders of magnitude sh!ttier accommodation. And FG - and their cheerleaders - refused to acknowledge that this was an actual problem. I can point to countless posts from this very forum in which people took the "tough, that's life, live with it" attitude despite the very obvious and very universal paradigm that moving from college education and part time work to full time employment is supposed to bring an increase in living standards, and certainly not a massive downgrade as has happened with everyone who lost their rental accommodation in the last year and has had to settle for something orders of magnitude less comfortable for a ridiculously higher price.

Those people will not vote for FFG. Even if FFG solve the problem, personally I believe that people have been so screwed and hurt by their policies and their smug attitude to others' suffering that forgiveness just won't be a thing. Those I know who went through this situation feel a visceral hatred towards Fine Gael which in all honesty is more intense than the anger they felt at FF for destroying their prospects just as they were getting ready to leave secondary school in and around 2008. You don't get those people back on your side after treating them the way this generation has been treated by FG.

Now, maybe you're right in that the specific vote for Sinn Fein is a transient thing. Perhaps it is. But it's not going back to FFG or their cheerleaders Labour and the Greens. If this generation's faith in SF collapses, their votes will go to SocDems, PBP, independents, and probably a new left wing party which will almost inevitably form in order to capitalise on any such SF collapse.

Bottom line is, those voters will not go back to the civil war parties. Not after being wronged by both of them in such a deeply fundamental way.

More fools those who fell for the SF palaver.

The ones blocking social housing development were the SF-led councils. Thankfully last year's local elections rid us of that scourge.

Yurt2 · 22-04-2020 08:30PM

all about the mane wrote: »

Damn right I’ve slated her. She has made an absolute shambles of things since the election. And her with notions of Taoiseach. Hilarious.

Low-quality. Sexist. Boring.

blanch152 · 22-04-2020 08:35PM

markodaly wrote: »

You, see the difference between you and I?

I will raise those figures once and move on, while you, will spend all day arguing and try and score cheap points, as evidenced by your last post.

The figures in the North are what they are, like in the South. Now I have no idea if SF/DUP are playing a blinder or not. But perhaps their politicians should realise that they are actually in government somewhere and their electorate are looking to them for leadership.

As I said, less twitter more governing.

There was a shocking article in the Irish Times about how badly the North have handled the Covid-19 crisis compared to the South.

I suppose they are making political capital out of peoples' deaths too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/coronavirus-ireland-is-one-island-with-two-very-different-death-rates-1.4234353

"The graphs show death rates per million of population for the North and the Republic and also hospital-based deaths. In both examples the Republic’s death rate is two-thirds that in the North."

SF didn't step up to the plate, North or South.

Those are the facts, no point in arguing with them, I will leave it there. I am sure that the usual suspects will spend 20 posts deflecting, diverting and trying to kneecap the messenger.

Galwayguy35 · 22-04-2020 08:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Eamon ryan wont get this deal through the greens imo?

Theres no appitide in greens to be fall guys for ff/fg again no matter how much they rub his ego...took near on a decade to get back to where they are

Why throw it away for few handy pensions???,their front canditdate profile is quiet young and most have 20 plus years left in politics,would seem foolish to me,to go in with ff/fg from a long term view?

The shinnerz were lambasted by some in 2016 for not going in,deos anyone still think this is a mistake given their performance last election?

No reason the greens cant be largest party in state in few years,if they play their cards right imo

The Greens are hated outside urban areas and west of the Shannon, there's no way in hell they could ever be the largest party in the state.

Shefwedfan · 22-04-2020 09:04PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The Greens are hated outside urban areas and west of the Shannon, there's no way in hell they could ever be the largest party in the state.

Why??

blanch152 · 22-04-2020 09:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Eamon ryan wont get this deal through the greens imo?

Theres no appitide in greens to be fall guys for ff/fg again no matter how much they rub his ego...took near on a decade to get back to where they are

Why throw it away for few handy pensions???,their front canditdate profile is quiet young and most have 20 plus years left in politics,would seem foolish to me,to go in with ff/fg from a long term view?

The shinnerz were lambasted by some in 2016 for not going in,deos anyone still think this is a mistake given their performance last election?

No reason the greens cant be largest party in state in few years,if they play their cards right imo

The issue is that they need a two-thirds majority of members to support it.

However, have no doubt about it, the Greens at senior level would jump at the chance to be in Government, they want to change things and do it now. They are not prepared to wait. They would actually be happy to make permanent changes to the way things are done and then disappear. That makes them different from other political parties.

As for the Shinners, it all depends on whether you are interested in power for powers sake or whether you want to get things done. SF aren't really interested in change, they are only interested in power for powers sake, so that they can push the united Ireland agenda. They will support anti-vaxxers, 5G weirdos and whatever other strange cause just to get into power, not because they actually believe in them.

22-04-2020 09:06PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The Greens are hated outside urban areas and west of the Shannon, there's no way in hell they could ever be the largest party in the state.

Shinners once used poll at 1 to 2% (took local SF man 3 elections to get in,last election ge returned with twice the quota)...now shinnerz are largest party for 1st pref under 65

Anything is possible in politics,if you build a platform,good policies and win people around.......though for greens to push on,they likely need to oust eamonn lettuce ryan

all about the mane · 22-04-2020 09:07PM

That clown o’Reilly accusing the government of kite flying.

Galwayguy35 · 22-04-2020 09:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Shinners once used poll at 1 to 2% (took local SF man 3 elections to get in,last election ge returned with twice the quota)...now shinnerz are largest party for 1st pref under 65

Anything is possible in politics,if you build a platform,good policies and win people around.......though for greens to push on,they likely need to oust eamonn lettuce ryan

SF policies are always going top be popular with voters and a lot of their core vote aren't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer so telling them they shouldn't have to pay for anything will always be a vote catcher.

The Greens on the other hand want to bring in policies that are very unpolular in rural areas.

22-04-2020 09:14PM

blanch152 wrote: »

The issue is that they need a two-thirds majority of members to support it.

However, have no doubt about it, the Greens at senior level would jump at the chance to be in Government, they want to change things and do it now. They are not prepared to wait. They would actually be happy to make permanent changes to the way things are done and then disappear. That makes them different from other political parties.

As for the Shinners, it all depends on whether you are interested in power for powers sake or whether you want to get things done. SF aren't really interested in change, they are only interested in power for powers sake, so that they can push the united Ireland agenda. They will support anti-vaxxers, 5G weirdos and whatever other strange cause just to get into power, not because they actually believe in them.

I really enjoy your deranged rants about shinnerz

....you dont even attempt to base it in reality anymore....future for you in satire mate

Seriously though The greens imo havnt a hope of getting 2/3 parlimentry support to go in......why should younger greens scrafice their political future for a pension for eamon ryan??

Theres no reason a green party cant lead and be biggest party in government inside a generation...they need to decide go for pensions and wipeout (like labour) or try win more people around to their view (like shinnerz)

Ff/fg have no interest in implenting a green agenda (indeed average fg people i know openly sneer at it)

22-04-2020 09:17PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

SF policies are always going top be popular with voters and a lot of their core vote aren't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer so telling them they shouldn't have to pay for anything will always be a vote catcher.

The Greens on the other hand want to bring in policies that are very unpolular in rural areas.

Boys yous are gonna drop the notion shinnerz are wasters,there isnt enough votes there to give em numbers they are getting??

I would like to see a manifesto drawn up by new generation greens,before id dismiss em as an option....but noway are they going anywhere under ryan

aido79 · 22-04-2020 09:29PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Here.

Before we go around the houses trying to claim Leo didn't specifically say "criticism/critical of or criticise""

Tony Holohan said "he was not comfortable with the idea of a company chartering a flight to bring in staff"

I think we can all agree that he's referring to Keeling's?

Leo said. he “shares the discomfort expressed” by Dr Holohan.

I think that's safe to say he wasn't too impressed with their shenanigans, you might even say he was critical.

Seriously lads.

Fair enough. He criticised it. How does that amount to populism?

Galwayguy35 · 22-04-2020 09:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Boys yous are gonna drop the notion shinnerz are wasters,there isnt enough votes there to give em numbers they are getting??

I would like to see a manifesto drawn up by new generation greens,before id dismiss em as an option....but noway are they going anywhere under ryan

I never said they didn't have capable politicans in the party, Pearse Doherty and ML herself would be the best example of this.

But the same tired old story they peddle of tax the rich for everything and the spending and house builds they were promising at the last election was off the wall.

22-04-2020 09:44PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I never said they didn't have capable politicans in the party, Pearse Doherty and ML herself would be the best example of this.

But the same tired old story they peddle of tax the rich for everything and the spending and house builds they were promising at the last election was off the wall.

It really wasnt,they proposed a tax increase of 4 billion a year and 22 billion over 5 years in expenses??

Highly optimistic,yes,but not off the wall and imo reasonably prudent given the performance of econmy at the time and most realistic way of tackling issues targeted

Like FF literally promised to give away hundreds of millions in ssia type schemes and would this have lead to a repeat of worse of excesses if the boom??,(which i intend to take advantage of,if/when they bring it in...pure hypocrite,but fcuk it)

tikkahunter · 22-04-2020 09:52PM

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

hatrickpatrick · 22-04-2020 10:00PM

blanch152 wrote: »

More fools those who fell for the SF palaver.

The ones blocking social housing development were the SF-led councils. Thankfully last year's local elections rid us of that scourge.

Bullsh!t. Fine Gael's department of housing refused to fund any social housing development which didn't involve selloffs to developers, regardless of what councillors voted for. That's why the O'Devaney Gardens regeneration has been gridlocked for the last five years, as you'd know if you'd actually followed the story. Eoghan Murphy objected to the proportion of affordable housing in the development and wanted more of it to involve f*cking peoples' lives up with the obscene rents on the private market instead.

aido79 · 22-04-2020 10:05PM

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

The consultant led team would be better off investigating how many people he was responsible for killing.

hatrickpatrick · 22-04-2020 10:10PM

markodaly wrote: »

That's lovely of course, but again, you are speculating, the fact is you don't know if your prediction will be the actual outcome.

Of course I'm speculating, but I'd bet my life savings on it with little hesitation. The utter hatred for FFG among the vast majority of people I know from my own generation, spanning pretty much the whole spectrum of socioeconomic classes, speaks for itself. The fact that pretty much the entirety of social media and the actual results of the last election bear that out are why I'm confident these aren't mere guesses on my part.

It may be strong now, but those younger people you harp on about, they will get jobs, buy a property, and become part of the establishment so to speak. The older you get, the more conservative you become. It's as true as night becomes day.

They won't buy property unless someone solves the affordability situation, that's literally the whole point of everything we're arguing about here. The ladder has been pulled up so that this generation is unable to get on it and FFG are directly responsible for that.

Votes will therefore go back to FF/FG, they will not all just move to a new party.

See above. You're making the idiotic assumption that FFG will solve the housing unaffordability crisis. The reason they're being destroyed in elections isn't because they can't, it's because they won't. They refuse to. They don't care about it.

Don't you think this clouds your judgement then? Its a very small sample size.

That would be a fair comment if the results of the election, and the demographic breakdown of those results, weren't perfectly in line with what I've been saying.

Yes, younger voters who may not have as much to lose. Now though, they probably have lost their jobs and may have a different mindset?
Whatever you think about FG, they did a good job in creating policies that created lots and lots of jobs.

And because FFG refuse to tackle housing or the overall spiralling cost of living, having a well paying job doesn't do jack sh!t for one's quality of life. That's literally exactly what I've been saying for this entire thread - people were able to afford better living standards on part time incomes five years ago than they can on full time incomes, because the cost of living and housing have risen by orders of magnitude faster than average incomes, and Fine Gael seem to be perfectly happy with this - smugly and bizarrely cheerleading falling living standards as "progress". Unless that changes, they will not be able to win over this generation.

Easy to forget that in good times, now though with unemployment at 22% it will focus minds, a lot!

See above. The cost of living is too high regardless. And FFG refuse to tackle it. Unless they do, people who have been voting against them will not be changing their minds.

Why? FF more than doubled it seats in GE 2016 after the debacle of GE 2011.
You think after 9 years of FG in power, a few years away from the hot seat, FG won't come storming back? They will just disappear into nothing?

FF too?

Again, if the cost of housing and the cost of living aren't tackled, we are headed for very profound changes to our political climate. The shoots of that can already be seen with the latest GE results.

I can easily see FG storming back after an SF led left-wing government failing, that will ultimately disappoint as they will over-promise (its in their nature).

Again, a 25-year-old voter who has just graduated is a very different beast to a 45-year-old taxpayer voter and property owner.

You're acting like the cost of living crisis is temporary. It could be, but it won't be under FF or FG, because they have categorically refused to do anything about it except fiddle while Rome burns.

Honestly I don't understand what you're not getting here. Your entire argument is built around the assumption that people are going to escape from the stagflation trap. They won't unless government policy tackles that stagflation, and FFG are ideologically opposed to prioritising quality of life above macroeconomics.

blanch152 · 23-04-2020 12:19AM

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

Just waiting for Murphy and Bowie to drop in and criticise Dessie Ellis for making political capital out of people’s deaths, won’t be holding my breath now.

He then had to retract, having got the numbers wrong.

At least the days of having to check under your car in the morning if you criticised the bold Dessie are gone now.

McMurphy wrote: »

Not so for the victims of the troubles though, no need for me to link back to my post outling how you have had 100s of posts using the deaths of others to point score for years now - it's there for all see - and they will return soon after this pandemic passes, as sure as night follows day.

You quoting the wrong poster?

Or did mark buy a dog that's not yet up to speed on who its supposed to be barking at?

Bowie wrote: »

You did the very thing you castigated others for allegedly doing. That's it simply.
Now you say you do, but don'y harp on it and in the same post re-visit it

markodaly · 23-04-2020 12:46AM

Yurt! wrote: »

Were you not paying attention to what was going on the past couple of years?

Yes, arguably more closely than you.

Deluded. The combined share of FF/FG votes has plummeted like property ownership rates over the last few elections. This is a permanent change in the Irish political landscape, and the 'big two' created it.

This is because one of them have been in government.

If or when they are both in opposition, we will see their support increase again.
Now I am not at all thinking that we are going to go back to the 1970's in terms of their support, but if people think these parties are going to disappear, they will be in for long disappointment.

45 year old property owners don't magic into existence like some law of nature. The conditions for affordable home ownership need to be there.

And people have still being buying property over the past few years...

The algorithm has changed and quite frankly the traditional big two parties are without a map. In any case, the housing situation, as massive a failure as it is, is just one front.

Covid-19 will focus minds.
Parties like SF are great playthings when times are good, when times are harder, voters will think hard about jobs and the economy.

markodaly · 23-04-2020 03:07AM

all about the mane wrote: »

That clown o’Reilly accusing the government of kite flying.

Dear SF HQ

If you want to progress in national politics, take Louise O'Reilly and lock her in a room, out of the public eye.

OK.Thanks.Bye

markodaly · 23-04-2020 03:09AM

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

A Sinn Fein source said: “Dessie just got his facts wrong.”

It is understood Mr Ellis based his statement on information he had received locally in his constituency.

They are a ****ing joke.

Peddlers of fear and fake news.

markodaly · 23-04-2020 03:41AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Of course I'm speculating, but I'd bet my life savings on it with little hesitation. The utter hatred for FFG among the vast majority of people I know from my own generation, spanning pretty much the whole spectrum of socioeconomic classes, speaks for itself. The fact that pretty much the entirety of social media and the actual results of the last election bear that out are why I'm confident these aren't mere guesses on my part.

Ah now? Come off it. We are basing it off social media now? Sure, why not go the whole hog and state 5G is a mind control trick or perhaps some Gemma o'Doherty speil should be taken seriously. Maybe the great replacement theory as well....
Social media is poison and no one, and I mean no one should base anything of worth or note of it.

Look, I get it. Many think FG and FF failed them and I certainly have my reservations about many of the things FG did the past few years. However, time moves on and when these same voters see the alternatives, that hatred you speak off will soften. Look at the Greens, nowhere in 2011, now kingmakers not even 10 years later.

They won't buy property unless someone solves the affordability situation, that's literally the whole point of everything we're arguing about here. The ladder has been pulled up so that this generation is unable to get on it and FFG are directly responsible for that.

Erm, Covid-19 has kinda done that for us.
Property prices will fall over the next few years. The Banks have already decreased the appraisals for the LTV ratio by 10%.
What is more, this election seems to have stirred something in both FF and FG. After all they are proposing a constitutional amendment to tackle land prices.

See above. You're making the idiotic assumption that FFG will solve the housing unaffordability crisis. The reason they're being destroyed in elections isn't because they can't, it's because they won't. They refuse to. They don't care about it.

You are very very VERY naive. Housing is an issue in every western nation. David McWilliams did a very interesting talk about this recently that explains this in great detail and gives the reasons to why this is. We think that the issue with housing is an Irish one, and that everyone else has housing utopia. Wrong.
The issue is far far more complicated than you seem to imagine. Simple soapbox slogans won't and can't solve housing issues.

Put it this way, if it were that simple for either FF or FG to fix it, why won't they?
It is in their pure self-interest to fix this problem, given that they are after all political parties who want power and vote. So, why wont they fix it? Because, as you say, they don't want to? Can't be arsed? Too busy playing golf or playing spoons down the pub?

Is that your actual argument?

Just look at the North, where housing is in the remit of Stormont. Homelessness there is much higher than in the South.

As I said your angry is clouding your judgment.

That would be a fair comment if the results of the election, and the demographic breakdown of those results, weren't perfectly in line with what I've been saying.

Yes, one election... it does not mean that every election will follow the same pattern.
Take the last poll, FG are back as the most popular party. Nothing is consistent.

And because FFG refuse to tackle housing or the overall spiralling cost of living, having a well paying job doesn't do jack sh!t for one's quality of life. That's literally exactly what I've been saying for this entire thread - people were able to afford better living standards on part time incomes five years ago than they can on full time incomes, because the cost of living and housing have risen by orders of magnitude faster than average incomes, and Fine Gael seem to be perfectly happy with this - smugly and bizarrely cheerleading falling living standards as "progress". Unless that changes, they will not be able to win over this generation.

Again, see my comments from before.
And your comment re part-time income vs full-time income is utterly wrong. CSO data will correct you there.

See above. The cost of living is too high regardless. And FFG refuse to tackle it. Unless they do, people who have been voting against them will not be changing their minds.

I somewhat agree regarding the cost of living in Ireland, that it's high.

In summary, there are various reasons for this, some self-inflicted, others we cannot control. We are after all a small market of 5 million people and there will be higher costs to doing business here than say the UK, with its 65 million population.

I do agree that things like insurance costs, childcare costs, and housing costs need radical fundamental reform.

However, this is Ireland and if we try and tackle one of them, people will give out because that is what we do best.

Take the issue of the Bulgarians coming over to work. People give out about that, even though only 27 Irish people applied for 900 positions. Then the same people state that they should pay them more, even though Ireland has one of the highest minimum wages in the EU. Grand, pay them more, but all this does really raise the cost of food in Ireland... so there goes the cost of living up again...
Can't win, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Again, if the cost of housing and the cost of living aren't tackled, we are headed for very profound changes to our political climate. The shoots of that can already be seen with the latest GE results.

Perhaps, but then again, look at SF's record. Its dire. Just because you dont vote for FF and FG there is an automatic solving of the problem. In fact that is the reason why I believe people will go back to FF and FG over time, because the soundbites and soapboxes that the Irish left live off won't build a single house. There will be a time that those chickens come home to roost.

You're acting like the cost of living crisis is temporary. It could be, but it won't be under FF or FG, because they have categorically refused to do anything about it except fiddle while Rome burns.

Honestly I don't understand what you're not getting here. Your entire argument is built around the assumption that people are going to escape from the stagflation trap. They won't unless government policy tackles that stagflation, and FFG are ideologically opposed to prioritising quality of life above macroeconomics.

I have already addressed this, see my previous comments.

Not voting for FF or FG is not a magical miracle cure. The Irish Left have always promised all and sundry, in fact they promise too much. Labour in 2011 being the classic example. That is why most people dont trust them.

You dont know what the term Stagflation means because if you did, you would not use it here in the Irish Context.

all about the mane · 23-04-2020 07:49AM

markodaly wrote: »

They are a ****ing joke.

Peddlers of fear and fake news.

Ellis is like some of the clowns on here. Wishing that more people were dead. Then again it’s part of that shower’s history.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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