Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

wakka12 · 22-04-2020 11:33AM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

How is the poster boy for ‘Herd Immunity’ doing compared to other Scandinavian neighbours ?

Sweden - 175 deaths/ million pop
Norway - 34 deaths/ million pop
Finland - 25 deaths/ million pop
Denmark - 64 deaths/ million pop

Ritual Senicide (Ättestupa) is a part of Sweden’s myths and legends… and is still being practiced I guess.

Disgusting carry on !

At a glance it looks bad but Ive become more convinced by it recently. Deaths have not exploded in Sweden, they are considerably higher at the moment, but that was to be expected at the beginning

growleaves · 22-04-2020 11:35AM

How is the poster boy for ‘Herd Immunity’ doing compared to other Scandinavian neighbours ?

Er but countries who didn't lock down were all supposed to be 'like Italy'. That was said to me about 10,000 times which may be why I remember it.

Sweden is within the European average. The 'rule' that it can only compared to three other nearby countries is arbitrary.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 11:38AM

Spain 435 new deaths, 4,211 new cases.

More or less the same as yesterday.

marno21 · 22-04-2020 11:39AM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

How is the poster boy for ‘Herd Immunity’ doing compared to other Scandinavian neighbours ?

Sweden - 175 deaths/ million pop
Norway - 34 deaths/ million pop
Finland - 25 deaths/ million pop
Denmark - 64 deaths/ million pop

Ritual Senicide (Ättestupa) is a part of Sweden’s myths and legends… and is still being practiced I guess.

Disgusting carry on !

Yes, but that's a cumulative figure you have posted. As time goes on, the figure will creep up in other countries, albeit slower. There has been no massive explosion in Sweden.

Antibody tests in Sweden will be interesting to see how many people there have been infected. Then you can compare vs Norway or Denmark using estimated CFR values.

Rob A. Bank · 22-04-2020 11:39AM

is_that_so wrote: »

I'd actually back the HCI inside of me to do the job! But the simplest solution is just don't buy it if you're so delicate about it!

HCI ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCI

None of the above are very acidic.

:P

Wombatman · 22-04-2020 11:42AM

Can anybody definitively clarify this:

When they talk about statistics from LTRCs, are nursing home figures included as a subset?

The total number of deaths in long term residential care centres is 406 (329 are lab-confirmed, 77 are suspect cases), and in nursing homes it’s 357 (276 lab-confirmed, and 61 suspect cases).

https://www.thejournal.ie/dr-tony-holohan-nursing-homes-covid-19-5079514-Apr2020/

Is this 605 lab confirmed in total between LTRCs and nursing homes?

or

Is it 329 lab confirmed in total for LTRCs of which 276 pertain to nursing homes?

I think it is the former.

Rob A. Bank · 22-04-2020 11:44AM

growleaves wrote: »

Er but countries who didn't lock down were all supposed to be 'like Italy'. That was said to me about 10,000 times which may be why I remember it.

Sweden is within the European average. The 'rule' that it can only compared to three other nearby countries is arbitrary.

Mmmm so it's arbitrary to compare Scandinavian countries to one another ?

Pfff

Cork Boy 53 · 22-04-2020 11:45AM

seamus wrote: »

Yes, this has been said for a while. It's not GPs and doctors "ignoring" normal medicine, its people doing their level best to stay away from GPs and hospitals until the Covid crisis has passed.

There's nothing really wrong with phone consultations. Like companies have resisted home-working for a long time, GPs have resisted remote consultations, because face-to-face makes them more comfortable, makes them feel like they have more control.

The reality is that unless there is a physical examination required, then there it makes no difference whether the GP asks you questions over the phone or in their office.

Patients though have some difficulty with this, because we expect to see a doctor, not to just talk about being sick and get a prescription. People are not managing their health properly, and it's a big problem.

There have been a few graphs floating around about the different "waves" of illness, the massive challenges that our health services are facing beyond Covid.

Wave 2 is not the next surge of the virus. It's the people who have deferred acute conditions over the last two months and will start presenting in hospital with end-stage heart failure, COPD, pneumonia and other preventable/treatable conditions. Ordinarily our health service can cope when they present in normal numbers, not when they all start appearing at once.

Wave 3 is people with chronic or long-term conditins who've deferred treatment; cancers, surgeries, etc.; and are now in a serious mess.

After that is a surge in mental illness cases. PTSD, depression, suicide, etc. This will hit healthcare incredibly hard since healthcare workers themselves will make up so many of the patients.

It will most likely be all of these issues plus a second and possibly third wave of the Covid-19 virus.

growleaves · 22-04-2020 11:48AM

Mmmm so it's arbitrary to compare Scandinavian countries to one another ?

Pfff

Not as such but if we were to make that the basis for a conclusion it would be.

When discussing Ireland I haven't seen many posts where we're only compared to N. Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England.

ginoginelli · 22-04-2020 11:48AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I bring my shopping straight out to the back garden . I wipe every packaging with anti bac before bringing in to the house
I wipe the shopping bags down and hang on the line overnight .
We can all do our best with small steps to try to eliminate a risk .

Most Anti Bac's have not been shown to eliminate covid 19 transmission. Soap and water, bleach or 70% plus alcohol disinfectants should be used.

wakka12 · 22-04-2020 11:50AM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Mmmm so it's arbitrary to compare Scandinavian countries to one another ?

Pfff

Well its arbitrary to limit the comparison to only neighbouring countries

He is right, Sweden has the same population as Switzerland and has almost the exact same number of deaths in total and per capita despite Switzerland doing the more typical lockdown scenario. It is certainly at this stage at least looking like Sweden did not make a major mistake here

Rob A. Bank · 22-04-2020 11:50AM

https://twitter.com/nygovcuomo/status/1242477029083295746?lang=en

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 11:50AM

growleaves wrote: »

Not as such but if we were to make that the basis for a conclusion it would be.

When discussing Ireland I haven't seen many posts where we're only compared to N. Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England.

They are not countries, they are part of the UK. The UK is the country we are compared to.

Scandinavia are sovereign countries and are rightly compared against each other.

They are all a similar population size which makes it even more perfect.

hmmm · 22-04-2020 11:51AM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Mmmm so it's arbitrary to compare Scandinavian countries to one another ?

Pfff

Every country is counting deaths and cases differently, and doing different levels of testing. Trying to compare stats is useless at the moment.

Sweden is interesting and I'm glad they're doing it. I don't think the Irish public would have appreciate the government running a giant experiment on us,and it was never an option in our situation, but I hope Sweden succeeds.

growleaves · 22-04-2020 11:51AM

The UK is the country we are compared to.

Yes but not exclusively.

iamwhoiam · 22-04-2020 11:56AM

ginoginelli wrote: »

Most Anti Bac's have not been shown to eliminate covid 19 transmission. Soap and water, bleach or 70% plus alcohol disinfectants should be used.

I add Dettol to my anti bac wipes

22-04-2020 11:58AM

Interesting that the NYT is reporting that a couple that died at home a number of weeks before the first recorded case in the US had COVID-19. And that they had not travelled anywhere. So the assumption is that this has been circulating in the community way before it was first identified.

If so, surely the deaths of the last few weeks reflect a period where there were no lockdowns, even no restrictions on movement or mass gatherings. Gives me hope that in an environment when we have a semblance of normality, but much greater awareness, then the upswing in the infection rates will be perfectly manageable

Princess Calla · 22-04-2020 12:02PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

HCI ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCI

None of the above are very acidic.

:P

Stomach acid has a pH around 1.5-3.5. I wouldn't fancy any acid of that pH anywhere near me (bar my stomach acids obviously)

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 12:04PM

Merkel has urged German society that a tougher lock down may follow if discipline is not maintained as the country relaxes some rules on shop stores.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/germany-takes-tentative-steps-back-to-normality-as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases

German chancellor, Angela Merkel, urged Germans on Monday to remain “disciplined and watchful”, and warned that if attitudes towards the pandemic relaxed too quickly, another tougher lockdown may follow. “We must not lose track of the fact that we continue to be at the start of this pandemic and are far from out of the woods,” she said.

blade1 · 22-04-2020 12:07PM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Bob Mortimer.

He's your man for dentistry as well.
All you need is Fuji 9.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 12:09PM

Belgium reports 264 new deaths. They have been reporting similar figures for weeks. I believe their daily figures include nursing homes.

hmmm · 22-04-2020 12:10PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Belgium reports 264 new deaths. They have been reporting similar figures for weeks. I believe their daily figures include nursing homes.

Belgium have been including all deaths in nursing homes. Not just Covid-tested deaths in nursing homes, all deaths.

Their stats make them look like they are doing far worse than they are in reality.

Rob A. Bank · 22-04-2020 12:12PM

Princess Calla wrote: »

Stomach acid has a pH around 1.5-3.5. I wouldn't fancy any acid of that pH anywhere near me (bar my stomach acids obviously)

I was gently teasing about the difference between 'HCI' and HCL.

Unfortunately relying on stomach acid to get rid of Coronaviruses means food has to pass through the mouth first (which we all should know is a No No)

polesheep · 22-04-2020 12:13PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Is ‘normal’ medicine being neglected.
I had to get a prescription renewed this week. I used to see the GP every six months and get my prescription renewed after a physical check by my GP. I rang the surgery and was redirected to another number as my GP is working from home. He explained that he was only doing phone consultations and not physically seeing patients and would email my prescription to the pharmacy.
I mentioned this on a WhatsApp group, (about 20 members), to see if anyone had actually physically seen their GP recently. Three others had a similar experience to me and nobody knew of any GP who was actually seeing patients in their surgeries or clinics.
All this was put into perspective when I listened to the Scottish CMO at yesterday’s presser in Edinburgh. He was saying that there was a worrying drop in referrals by GPs for potentially serious conditions. He said that referrals for symptoms of cancer were down by 70% compared to pre-Covid times.
We also have almost 2000 empty hospital beds according to RTÉ reports yesterday. It looks like ‘normal’ medicine is being largely ignored.

This is a very serious issue. I have had skin issues in the past. Growths removed (just in time). I have a couple of suspicious growths now and asked to see my GP. I was offered a phone consultation. For a skin issue! As a compromise I have sent pics to the GP. This is completely unacceptable. When this all kicked off some doctors were running towards the danger. GPs seem to be running away. It's the equivalent of a war breaking out and the army refusing to take part as they consider it to be too dangerous.

wakka12 · 22-04-2020 12:13PM

hmmm wrote: »

Belgium have been including all deaths in nursing homes. Not just Covid-tested deaths in nursing homes, all deaths.

Their stats make them look like they are doing far worse than they are in reality.

I'm sure they have reasons for why they count them as COVID deaths. There is an assessment of symptoms that patients had surely

JDD · 22-04-2020 12:14PM

Here's something that has been troubling me.

Are we definitely going to get a vaccine? I mean, HIV has been around since the early eighties, and there's no vaccine for that. Is it easier to build vaccines for coronaviruses?

Secondly, if human trials are starting this week on the Oxford University prototype vaccines, how long do human trials last? Presumably a year so that you would know if any side effects become apparent over six months? From that, can we take it that a vaccine won't be approved until May of next year? Or have other prototype vaccines already started human trials?

EDIT: I mean over 12 months, not six months.

Widdensushi · 22-04-2020 12:15PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are not countries, they are part of the UK. The UK is the country we are compared to.

Scandinavia are sovereign countries and are rightly compared against each other.

They are all a similar population size which makes it even more perfect.

Belgium is closer in population to Sweden than any of the Scandinavian countries, Netherlands has a larger population, both are quite close and have a far higher death rate than Sweden

Gynoid · 22-04-2020 12:16PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Merkel has urged German society that a tougher lock down may follow if discipline is not maintained as the country relaxes some rules on shop stores.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/germany-takes-tentative-steps-back-to-normality-as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases

I have listened to a couple of Merkel's speeches lately and she seems really sound about this predicament. Calm, rational, stoic but very clear that we are as yet only at the beginning of this experience. It is trying for many, I get that. But a new pathogen emerged not long ago and we are still very uncertain of how big a problem it really is. Patience.

eagle eye · 22-04-2020 12:19PM

growleaves wrote:

Sweden is within the European average. The 'rule' that it can only compared to three other nearby countries is arbitrary.

I'm very suspect about Sweden's numbers. They have a lot of deaths compared to the number of cases. They're claiming just 15k cases but have over 1700 deaths, that's like a mortality rate from the virus of over 11%.

22-04-2020 12:20PM

polesheep wrote: »

When this all kicked off some doctors were running towards the danger. GPs seem to be running away. It's the equivalent of a war breaking out and the army refusing to take part as they consider it to be too dangerous.

The checkout staff at Lidl are more on the frontline than GP's hiding from their own patients. But they will still take the plaudits when this is all over.

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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