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Property Market 2020
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Economic forecasts for 2021 aren't too bad.
Devastating economic circumstance is OTT imo.
I suppose it's all relevant to what you consider devastating. I would have said the financial crises of 2008 was devastating and the IMF said this will be worse. That's where I'm coming from with this.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 30614
Idbatterim wrote: »That tiny house in churchrown up to 450k now!!! And look at this COMEDY below!!!!
https://touch.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-64-saint-columbanus-road-windy-arbour-co-dublin/1517536
550k?
Fecking hell.
Its a reasonable 1970s council house- but with a bad aspect (the back garden is easterly facing ffs).
Property features: Electric Fire in Living Room........
Like what?
If you actually click through- it does look nice- but 550k? Its not even 100m2- and the family selling have obviously outgrown it- how long before someone else would outgrow it?
Utterly ridiculous price.0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »I know we haven't bought any take-away or celebrated any of 4 birthdays in our house here over the last 5-6 weeks. We will probably have a big bash for everyone together when this madness dies down- a nice meal out perhaps- but thats it- we don't go to the pub or cafés under normal circumstances, we don't smoke, we don't have Sky TV, gym memberships or other expenditure.
Lots of middleclass workers- had hollowed out their spending over the past decade, as it was the only financially prudent thing to do.
There may be some people who were getting lots of take-out, coffees, meals out etc- but that cohort are not reflective of what the majority of people were doing.
We've taken up lots of little niche things to keep us busy during the lockdown- be it gardening, baking or whatever. Those bits and bods will most probably end up on the scrap heap- but it doesn't mean that they're going to translate into expensive social outings in their stead.
The Irish workers were under an incredible tax burden- *before* any of this manure hit the fan. Any heavy lifting or expectation that Irish workers are going to magic up a recovery when this is over- will have to be tempered by the simple fact- most people were living from paycheck to paycheck- and don't have the means to splurge- and the prospect of tighter finances isn't exactly an invitation for people to go wild.
im not disputing your comments about so many of the squeezed middle living pay cheque to pay cheque as i don't take a keen interest in these topics but what about the volume of restaurants, coffee shops, gyms and other lifestyle businesses thriving? There seems to be a lot of disposable income out there....
who owns the €120bn odd in savings held by Irish banks? Is it older generation?0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »550k?
Fecking hell.
Its a reasonable 1970s council house- but with a bad aspect (the back garden is easterly facing ffs).
Property features: Electric Fire in Living Room........
Like what?
If you actually click through- it does look nice- but 550k? Its not even 100m2- and the family selling have obviously outgrown it- how long before someone else would outgrow it?
Utterly ridiculous price.
That is crazy. I grew up close to columbanus and its not a nice looking place. I think all the anti social issues are gone but horrible narrow roads with bunched up terraces. Only thing it has is the Luas..... wasn't ehre something in IT about being on green line adding €XX to price?0 -
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im not disputing your comments about so many of the squeezed middle living pay cheque to pay cheque as i don't take a keen interest in these topics but what about the volume of restaurants, coffee shops, gyms and other lifestyle businesses thriving? There seems to be a lot of disposable income out there....
who owns the €120bn odd in savings held by Irish banks? Is it older generation?
And what is the amount of debt the Irish people have, without going into personal debt the government have a 200 billion debt to service where are they getting that money ?? Answer = the tax payer... The middle cant take any more the pip has been squeaking for the last 10 years since the last recession ..and just to put your comment into some perspective, some people may have 50k in their bank account but owe 250k on a mortgage, 10k on a car 5k on a credit card. Some people like to live in the moment and pay for it later but the 120bn you spout has to be equated against current debt levels as well. As of 2019 our personal debt levels were at 137 billion making your 120k in savings null and void with 17 billion still left to service
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/fall-in-irish-household-debt-ratio-flatters-to-deceive-1.39284910 -
fliball123 wrote: »And what is the amount of debt the Irish people have, without going into personal debt the government have a 200 billion debt to service where are they getting that money ?? Answer = the tax payer... The middle cant take any more the pip has been squeaking for the last 10 years since the last recession ..and just to put your comment into some perspective, some people may have 50k in their bank account but owe 250k on a mortgage, 10k on a car 5k on a credit card. Some people like to live in the moment and pay for it later but the 120bn you spout has to be equated against current debt levels as well
thanks for answering the question - i was only asking and not disputing or questioning the validity of the comment. Trying to educate myself.0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »550k?
Fecking hell.
Its a reasonable 1970s council house- but with a bad aspect (the back garden is easterly facing ffs).
Property features: Electric Fire in Living Room........
Like what?
If you actually click through- it does look nice- but 550k? Its not even 100m2- and the family selling have obviously outgrown it- how long before someone else would outgrow it?
Utterly ridiculous price.
The only thing it has going for it is the address.0 -
thanks for answering the question - i was only asking and not disputing or questioning the validity of the comment. Trying to educate myself.
Well they are the unfortunate figures the middle has been on the hook for a lot of the past ills over the last 2 decades and its not just the rich who were pandered to, but also the "don't want to work brigade" and every other cohort that has been pandered to by government over the last 2 decades. Just off the top of my head the top 4 decisions by governments over the last 2 decades that has helped to build up a 200 billion debt are as follows.
PS unrealistic pensions
Banking Scandal
Social Welfare traps
PS bench marking
Not having a go at ps by the way its not their fault Bertie made a b0ll0x of it and just so its clear the squeezed middle cannot take brunt of the expense for Corona other areas considered sacred are going to have to take some of the pain as well0 -
fliball123 wrote: »Well they are the unfortunate figures the middle has been on the hook for a lot of the past ills over the last 2 decades and its not just the rich who were pandered to, but also the "don't want to work brigade" and every other cohort that has been pandered to by government over the last 2 decades. Just off the top of my head the top 4 decisions by governments over the last 2 decades that has helped to build up a 200 billion debt are as follows.
PS unrealistic pensions
Banking Scandal
Social Welfare traps
PS bench marking
Not having a go at ps by the way its not their fault Bertie made a b0ll0x of it.
i agree with these points..... PS productivity is a big issue for me.... jobs for life, guaranteed pensions, incremental pay increases not connected to performance etc...... something has to give there0 -
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Zenify wrote:I suppose it's all relevant to what you consider devastating. I would have said the financial crises of 2008 was devastating and the IMF said this will be worse. That's where I'm coming from with this.
We were amongst the top 3 in worst affected countries in the financial crisis because of our actions before and during it. This will hit us hard but I don't see us being in the top 3 this time roundAugeo wrote:The last pension levy was a grim measure but it was a drop in the ocean compared to the relief on money goes in and the tax free growth.
Bang on. Does anyone know how much tax is foregone due to pension reliefs at the higher tax rate. If this tax was redistributed in reducing the higher rate of tax, or better still for the squeezed middle increase the point of entry to the top rate of taxHubertj wrote:im not disputing your comments about so many of the squeezed middle living pay cheque to pay cheque
The cost of housing is a greater contributer to this than taxation0 -
Any individual country that even hints at abandoning the Euro would suffer an immediate bank run in the expectation that the reintroduced national currency would very quickly become monopoly money. They can also kiss goodbye to anyone buying national gilts. Maybe if a group of countries break away together it might work out better, but the ones I would expect most likely to crash out are not the ones I expect would be able to properly coordinate themselves.Assetbacked wrote: »I don't think it's outrageous to think the EU or at least the Euro gets abandoned by some participants, with the pandemic being the straw that breaks the camel's back.0 -
fliball123 wrote: »And what is the amount of debt the Irish people have, without going into personal debt the government have a 200 billion debt to service where are they getting that money ?? Answer = the tax payer... The middle cant take any more the pip has been squeaking for the last 10 years since the last recession ..and just to put your comment into some perspective, some people may have 50k in their bank account but owe 250k on a mortgage, 10k on a car 5k on a credit card. Some people like to live in the moment and pay for it later but the 120bn you spout has to be equated against current debt levels as well. As of 2019 our personal debt levels were at 137 billion making your 120k in savings null and void with 17 billion still left to service
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/fall-in-irish-household-debt-ratio-flatters-to-deceive-1.3928491
That's totally wrong and very misleading statement.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
i agree with these points..... PS productivity is a big issue for me.... jobs for life, guaranteed pensions, incremental pay increases not connected to performance etc...... something has to give there
The HSE *are* the bulk of the public sector in Ireland- this includes all the nurses etc who we're all cheering on at the moment. The salary for a staff nurse after 12 years- is 45k (salary scales here, compliments of the INMO). This is roughly 2k below the mean salary of full time employees in Ireland (link here- factchecked by the Journal)
During the last downturn- the private sector addressed it by laying off people, but not cutting salaries, the public sector cut salaries (by an average of 22%) rather than laying off people.
Benchmarking was conducted roughly 15 years ago- because the public sector was unable to attract suitably qualified people in comparison with salaries being offered in the private sector. You can argue whether or not the public and the private sector should be competing for the same people- however, in the context of the HSE- the result has been large numbers of contract employees- nurses, doctors and others, because the salary scales have been insufficient to attract suitable candidates otherwise.
The standard pension for the public sector is now 1/2 average career earnings reduced by whatever the COAP rate is, earned at the rate of 2/80s per annum over a 40 year period, plus a lumpsum of 1.5 times final salay, paid for in part by pension deductions, in addition of PRSI etc, of between 7 and 15%
The public sector is by no means as lucrative as people imagine it to be- and the one little point about the pension entitlement for an average public sector employee that the media habitually neglect to mention- is that its reduced by the rate of the contributory old age pension (aka clerical staff on low salaries don't get a public sector pension on the first 24k of their salary- they get a COAP or NCOAP- same as anyone else).
According to Publicjobs.ie over half of all graduates recruited in the public sector in 2018 quit their public sector appointments within their first 6 months of employ in the public sector............
People have a hatred of the public sector (for a variety of reasons, however, the manner in which it is painted in the media and seldom corrected doesn't help).
The average size of the public sector in the OECD is 20.9% of the workforce. In Ireland its 18.1% (which coincidentally is the same percentage as in both Portugal and Spain). In the UK its 20.6%. In a country like France its as high as 25.8%
We are going to have to redesign our country from the bottom up, going forwards. Its perhaps a unique opportunity to look at our workforce, both public and private sector- and decide what really matters for all of us- and how we are going to achieve those goals. We are already making it impossible to financially recompense people- our taxation rates are too high on too low income levels. Perhaps the addition of a sizable chunk of new bank holidays might temper this somewhat?
One massive thing that we seem to have discovered we were capable of doing in the last few weeks- is remote working. Perhaps we can incorporate a much increased element of remote working in our futures?
We do have to come up with a plan of action on how to redesign our society going forwards- however, I don't think that a public sector versus a private sector debate is helpful in that context- both public and private sectors are going to have a lot of heavy lifting to do.0 -
fliball123 wrote: »PS unrealistic pensions
That was stopped late 90's right? That goes back far longer than 2 decades. Also legacy staff on defined benefits is a legacy problem in a lot of countries and even in private companies.fliball123 wrote: »Banking Scandal
Banks are controlled by the Central Bank of Ireland, part of the European banking system. There was a clear regulation failure there, specifically in Ireland but that's not the fault of the Irish government entirely.fliball123 wrote: »Social Welfare traps
The only real trap is when you factor cost of accomodation into account, then social can in specific circumstances be significantly better. But housing is a complicated matter.fliball123 wrote: »PS bench marking
I don't exactly remember the government at the time being happy about the position they were forced into by the unions.0 -
Cuddlesworth wrote: »Banks are controlled by the Central Bank of Ireland, part of the European banking system. There was a clear regulation failure there, specifically in Ireland but that's not the fault of the Irish government entirely.
It was entirely the fault of the Irish government. career Civil servants were given all of the top regulatory appointments and acted as cheerleaders for the nonsense that the Irish government was spinning.0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »I know we haven't bought any take-away or celebrated any of 4 birthdays in our house here over the last 5-6 weeks. We will probably have a big bash for everyone together when this madness dies down- a nice meal out perhaps- but thats it- we don't go to the pub or cafés under normal circumstances, we don't smoke, we don't have Sky TV, gym memberships or other expenditure.
Lots of middleclass workers- had hollowed out their spending over the past decade, as it was the only financially prudent thing to do.
There may be some people who were getting lots of take-out, coffees, meals out etc- but that cohort are not reflective of what the majority of people were doing.
I don't think this is true. Pubs and restaurants in Dublin (not including tourist areas) were reasonably full every night of the week prior to this. Galway was similar. The vast majority of the clientele is middle class workers. Coffee Shops never don't have a queue and deliveroo/just eat numbers are off the scale, even despite a backlash on fast food. I'd say well over half of middle class workers have a gym membership.
While I think it's logical for property prices to fall, i'm cautious that it could be a slow process. Any person I know who was looking to buy in the short to medium term, is now WFH and having savings grow. Very easy for a couple earning a combined 100k to save 25k in this 6 month period. While jobs may not be certain into the future, I think there'll be plenty come the end of this year willing to take the chance with a decent deposit saved. Tech type jobs won't seem immediate risky to banks either. But obviously the market must correct itself in time, just might take a bit0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 30614
fliball123 wrote: »How is it we have 120 billion in banks in savings and 137billion of personal debt..Whats wrong and misleading about it?
Because we have assets to offset against our debts, other than just bank deposits?0 -
Hulk Hands wrote: »
I don't think this is true. Pubs and restaurants in Dublin (not including tourist areas) were reasonably full every night of the week prior to this. Galway was similar. The vast majority of the clientele is middle class workers. Coffee Shops never don't have a queue and deliveroo/just eat numbers are off the scale, even despite a backlash on fast food. I'd say well over half of middle class workers have a gym membership.
While I think it's logical for property prices to fall, i'm cautious that it could be a slow process. Any person I know who was looking to buy in the short to medium term, is now WFH and having savings grow. Very easy for a couple earning a combined 100k to save 25k in this 6 month period. While jobs may not be certain into the future, I think there'll be plenty come the end of this year willing to take the chance with a decent deposit saved. Tech type jobs won't seem immediate risky to banks either. But obviously the market must correct itself in time, just might take a bit
This is true.
I work in fintech and would be middle management level
I'd observed all the trends you describe above and I and my team are working from home now and as busy as ever (moreso even)
We're still planning to buy in mid next year, all going well.0 -
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The_Conductor wrote: »The HSE *are* the bulk of the public sector in Ireland- this includes all the nurses etc who we're all cheering on at the moment. The salary for a staff nurse after 12 years- is 45k (salary scales here, compliments of the INMO). This is roughly 2k below the mean salary of full time employees in Ireland (link here- factchecked by the Journal)
During the last downturn- the private sector addressed it by laying off people, but not cutting salaries, the public sector cut salaries (by an average of 22%) rather than laying off people.
Benchmarking was conducted roughly 15 years ago- because the public sector was unable to attract suitably qualified people in comparison with salaries being offered in the private sector. You can argue whether or not the public and the private sector should be competing for the same people- however, in the context of the HSE- the result has been large numbers of contract employees- nurses, doctors and others, because the salary scales have been insufficient to attract suitable candidates otherwise.
The standard pension for the public sector is now 1/2 average career earnings reduced by whatever the COAP rate is, earned at the rate of 2/80s per annum over a 40 year period, plus a lumpsum of 1.5 times final salay, paid for in part by pension deductions, in addition of PRSI etc, of between 7 and 15%
The public sector is by no means as lucrative as people imagine it to be- and the one little point about the pension entitlement for an average public sector employee that the media habitually neglect to mention- is that its reduced by the rate of the contributory old age pension (aka clerical staff on low salaries don't get a public sector pension on the first 24k of their salary- they get a COAP or NCOAP- same as anyone else).
According to Publicjobs.ie over half of all graduates recruited in the public sector in 2018 quit their public sector appointments within their first 6 months of employ in the public sector............
People have a hatred of the public sector (for a variety of reasons, however, the manner in which it is painted in the media and seldom corrected doesn't help).
The average size of the public sector in the OECD is 20.9% of the workforce. In Ireland its 18.1% (which coincidentally is the same percentage as in both Portugal and Spain). In the UK its 20.6%. In a country like France its as high as 25.8%
We are going to have to redesign our country from the bottom up, going forwards. Its perhaps a unique opportunity to look at our workforce, both public and private sector- and decide what really matters for all of us- and how we are going to achieve those goals. We are already making it impossible to financially recompense people- our taxation rates are too high on too low income levels. Perhaps the addition of a sizable chunk of new bank holidays might temper this somewhat?
One massive thing that we seem to have discovered we were capable of doing in the last few weeks- is remote working. Perhaps we can incorporate a much increased element of remote working in our futures?
We do have to come up with a plan of action on how to redesign our society going forwards- however, I don't think that a public sector versus a private sector debate is helpful in that context- both public and private sectors are going to have a lot of heavy lifting to do.
Thats not true the bulk are not HSE employees there is a good % but there are more PS staff in non HSE rolls then there are working there, IE garda, teachers, civil servants etc.
Where are you getting 22% I hope your not including the pension levy as that was a contribution to a defined benefit one which all of us in the private sector would love to have. Add in all increments continued to be paid and there was not much of a cut at all.
Bench-marking happened twice and it upped ps pay and also had a knock on effect to both existing and future ps pension pots, which were, even before corona unaffordable. Funnily enough when the downturn happened in 08 I didnt hear the unions looking for another round of bench marking to bring their wage down to their private sector counterparts. As you rightly said the private sector a lot of people lost their jobs 40k companies went to the wall and there were also a lot of paycuts for staff who stayed in their job not to mention the private pension pot being raided to pay for it all. The PS gave golden handshakes and pensioned off their workforce without any due diligence a lot of good workers were put out to pastures and in some cases had to be rehired on contract rates. Currently the private sector a lot cannot afford their own pensions yet they will be asked to pay tax for current and future ps pensions..thats not exactly fair now is it?
The hatred comes from the fact that they are slow to change. Unions put a cannon to governments heads for pay rises and to keep things the way they are. There is a lot of dead weight in a lot of sections and its very hard to be sacked. You nearly have to kill someone to be kicked out. Add in that 99.99999% always get the increment no matter how good, bad or ugly they work. Dont get me wrong if your working hard then by all means I have no bother paying for it but the clock watchers need to be outed and sacked and pensions taken away.
Also you figures of 18.1% does not include semi states / quangos or contractors being employed by the public sector it rises a good bit when they are included.
So just to add to this the squeezed middle cannot be asked to pay again and I agree the Public sector needs to be restructured as the privates sector will take care of itself. As in if a company is in trouble and cant be afforded they will go to the wall just ask any Debenham workers.0 -
i agree with these points..... PS productivity is a big issue for me.... jobs for life, guaranteed pensions, incremental pay increases not connected to performance etc...... something has to give there
Every crisis the PS get turned on. The last crisis the nurses took a hammering too from the public and independent news and media.0 -
fliball123 wrote: »How is it we have 120 billion in banks in savings and 137billion of personal debt..Whats wrong and misleading about it?
I was refering to: "As of 2019 our personal debt levels were at 137 billion making your 120k in savings null and void with 17 billion still left to service"
Many people don't keep their wealth in bank in savings. Especially wealthy.
Person 1: Has 1000 Euro in account, no loan and no investment. Based on this person is in +1000 Eur
Person 2: Bought a house many years ago with 100.000 Eur to pay in mortgage, he has car, other valuables, and 200.000 Eur "savings" put investment funds, and only 10.000 Euro in their account. In your calculation this persons finance is null and void, with 90.000 still left to service.
In my personal case. 1 Year after I graduated I had study loan, I had "savings" x times more than a study loan, which i invested in the stocks, I didn't kept much of money in my bank account, in your case it would mean I was in negative.
Note, 137 Billion is not just mortgage, it's a total household debt, regardless of the type. It still big number which is mainly due 2008 crisis.
But The Irish household savings and wealth is relatively high, comparing to other countries.0 -
Cuddlesworth wrote: »That was stopped late 90's right? That goes back far longer than 2 decades. Also legacy staff on defined benefits is a legacy problem in a lot of countries and even in private companies.
Banks are controlled by the Central Bank of Ireland, part of the European banking system. There was a clear regulation failure there, specifically in Ireland but that's not the fault of the Irish government entirely.
The only real trap is when you factor cost of accomodation into account, then social can in specific circumstances be significantly better. But housing is a complicated matter.
I don't exactly remember the government at the time being happy about the position they were forced into by the unions.Deleted User wrote: »Every crisis the PS get turned on. The last crisis the nurses took a hammering too from the public and independent news and media.
Not turning on them just saying the squeezed middle cant take this burden alone everyone even the sacred cows will have to pay as well0 -
I was refering to: "As of 2019 our personal debt levels were at 137 billion making your 120k in savings null and void with 17 billion still left to service"
Many people don't keep their wealth in bank in savings. Especially wealthy.
Person 1: Has 1000 Euro in account, no loan and no investment. Based on this person is in +1000 Eur
Person 2: Bought a house many years ago with 100.000 Eur to pay in mortgage, he has car, other valuables, and 200.000 Eur "savings" put investment funds, and only 10.000 Euro in their account. In your calculation this persons finance is null and void, with 90.000 still left to service.
In my personal case. 1 Year after I graduated I had study loan, I had "savings" x times more than a study loan, which i invested in the stocks, I didn't kept much of money in my bank account, in your case it would mean I was in negative.
Note, 137 Billion is not just mortgage, it's a total household debt, regardless of the type. It still big number which is mainly due 2008 crisis.
But The Irish household savings and wealth is relatively high, comparing to other countries.
as is our personal debt.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Every crisis the PS get turned on. The last crisis the nurses took a hammering too from the public and independent news and media.
This is because we have the usual nonsense from guards and nurses about earning 45k after 15 years or some other lies.
They have a tough job but people are sick of them giving their wages without all their allowances which are all guaranteed and plenty of scope for overtime. Their basic salary probably accounts for 2/3 of the salary for public servants on 24 shift.
Why can’t they just be honest about their take home pay and have an open conversation about it? Because it’s a lot more than they claim it is that’s why.
Good opportunity for them to buy in the next few months though and I would never begrudge them a good standard of living , tough jobs, but well paid .0 -
This is because we have the usual nonsense from guards and nurses about earning 45k after 15 years or some other lies.
They have a tough job but people are sick of them giving their wages without all their allowances which are all guaranteed and plenty of scope for overtime. Their basic salary probably accounts for 2/3 of the salary for public servants on 24 shift.
Why can’t they just be honest about their take home pay and have an open conversation about it? Because it’s a lot more than they claim it is that’s why.
Good opportunity for them to buy in the next few months though and I would never begrudge them a good standard of living , tough jobs, but well paid .
Not to mention their pensions0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »550k?
Fecking hell.
Its a reasonable 1970s council house- but with a bad aspect (the back garden is easterly facing ffs).
Property features: Electric Fire in Living Room........
Like what?
If you actually click through- it does look nice- but 550k? Its not even 100m2- and the family selling have obviously outgrown it- how long before someone else would outgrow it?
Utterly ridiculous price.
I am not in the market to buy, so I hadnt been checking out myhome.ie etc much, have a general interest in property. I had no idea, the delusion, depravity of some of the EA / sellers. They are appallin value for money, I mean the entire market might be over priced, but in for 500k odd for **** or 600k gets your something good, there are houses nearby, slightly more expensive, but infinitely better value. I said earlier in this thread, that I had a mate offer good money on two houses in the D.14 area a few months ago, they turned it down and I believe it was asking price offered, the usual "we have a higher bid, do you want to increase yours" he didnt, and those places are now still on the market, LOL! Delighted for them! How are the offers looking now lads? :rolleyes:
and these were total gut job projects, that would have cost another fortune to do right!
That columbanus place at 550k! they can say its near the luas etc, the surrounds are depressing, just bleak , not pleasant. Honestly, what would you figure you might actually pay for that place high three hundreds?0 -
in terms of taxation, nobody does idiotic taxation like this country, basically cream a huge amount of income tax and have an outrageous marginal rate, that stops enterpetise, people taking on extra hours or even results in them leaving the country. My opinion, introduce a proper council tax, every adult in the country pays, no exceptions! Wouldnt go near water charges again, no point unleashing ww3 if they only intend on it raising a pittance, which is what the prevous intention was...
Very good ronan lyons article below
Ronan Lyons: 'State is foregoing billions in revenue with low property tax'
The more new homes are built, the less likely it is that the value of existing homes will soar, writes Ronan Lyons
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ronan-lyons-state-is-foregoing-billions-in-revenue-with-low-property-tax-38785997.html0 -
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This is because we have the usual nonsense from guards and nurses about earning 45k after 15 years or some other lies.
They have a tough job but people are sick of them giving their wages without all their allowances which are all guaranteed and plenty of scope for overtime. Their basic salary probably accounts for 2/3 of the salary for public servants on 24 shift.
Why can’t they just be honest about their take home pay and have an open conversation about it? Because it’s a lot more than they claim it is that’s why.
Good opportunity for them to buy in the next few months though and I would never begrudge them a good standard of living , tough jobs, but well paid .
Either you don't know what you are talking about or you added nurses in by mistake, my partner has 5 yrs service in Children's nursing in HSE in Ireland on 36hr contract earns 37K/Yr, no overtime as there is a budget for each ward which is maxed out with agency costs for extra staff, they are told the overtime can be taken in LIEU but never have the staff to cover the time, they have to have each portion of overtime signed off by a manager who finishes at 4pm and asks why she stayed late etc.
2 shifts out of every 3 she usually does an extra hour filling out her detailed report on the day (which she is legally obligated to do or can be struck off) FOR FREE because she is told by her manager to have it filled out by the 7pm hand over which she often cannot due to the workload.
And this is apart from our personal financial cost to keep her mental health in tact from what she deals with on a daily basis, I would not do her job for 3 times the pay.
There may be easier nursing rolls than Children's nursing but they are not paid anymore. Please Don't tar all PS workers with the same brush!0
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This discussion has been closed.
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