Masks

Wibbs · 13-04-2020 10:53AM

Yes: other

ShineOn7 wrote: »

And hopefully someone from their health service is showing them how to put them on and take them off properly. Otherwise they're useless

Not quite S. Even a badly put on mask so long as it covers the nose and mouth reduces the amount of virus expelled by the sick and the amount inhaled by the healthy. Look at the difference in airflow when just speaking between no mask and a mask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk

Even a cockeyed mask covering the airways will reduce that flow. And consider that;s just speaking, now imagine coughing or sneezing. Look what happens when yer man does a little cough(like a fake one, not a hacking one). Suddenly two metres is safe distance doesn't seem nearly so safe. It also shows coughing into the arm massively reduces spread of airflow.

Kivaro · 13-04-2020 10:59AM

Yes: valved

Thanks Otnomart.

What boggles my mind is the spin on this forum about masks being useless because of the lack of "training".
Here's an outside-the-box suggestion:
How about RTE, instead of bombarding us with warnings and threats about not having a television license every second ad, how about RTE broadcasting public service announcements on how to use masks correctly?
I could create an animation in about 15 minutes for this. But I suppose the RTE unions would have to get involved, so it could take a while for them.

And the question about "what masks"?
This should not be our problem. The government and HSE should have started the procurement process months ago, and since they failed in that aspect, then they should source the masks in-country, by getting various manufacturers involved.
Weird concept? Right? Or maybe not.

The government and HSE are waiting for the moment to backtrack and save face and then change their mask guidance, but in the meantime Covid-19 is spreading unnecessarily around the country. As I said in another post, it is not the complete solution, but it definitely helps.

I am at a loss sometimes when I hear people on here with the "no, no, no, .... impossible" attitude. People with fortitude in this country can achieve these things because they have a "can do" attitude, and they are not afraid of the challenges ahead.

expectationlost · 13-04-2020 11:02AM

Kivaro wrote: »

Thanks Otnomart.

What boggles my mind is the spin on this forum about masks being useless because of the lack of "training".
Here's an outside-the-box suggestion:
How about RTE, instead of bombarding us with warnings and threats about not having a television license every second ad, how about RTE broadcasting public service announcements on how to use masks correctly?
I could create an animation in about 15 minutes for this. But I suppose the RTE unions would have to get involved, so it could take a while for them.

And the question about "what masks"?
This should not be our problem. The government and HSE should have started the procurement process months ago, and since they failed in that aspect, then they should source the masks in-country, by getting various manufacturers involved.
Weird concept? Right? Or maybe not.

The government and HSE are waiting for the moment to backtrack and save face and then change their mask guidance, but in the meantime Covid-19 is spreading unnecessarily around the country. As I said in another post, it is not the complete solution, but it definitely helps.

I am at a loss sometimes when I hear people on here with the "no, no, no, .... impossible" attitude. People with fortitude in this country can achieve these things because they have a "can do" attitude, and they are not afraid of the challenges ahead.

"should have" doesn't magic up masks that don't exist.

Kivaro · 13-04-2020 11:06AM

Yes: valved

expectationlost wrote: »

"should have" doesn't magic up masks that don't exist.

Prime example of the last part of my post, and apt username.

McGiver · 13-04-2020 11:07AM

No: I don't care enough

Irish Times fawning to the government instead of scrutinising and criticising. Exactly the opposite of what happened in the Czech Republic.
Misleading headline. The expert in the video said that the masks offer modest protection. But the whole interview was framed towards the negative side, the side that the HSE are peddling.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/face-masks-a-potential-hazard-in-spreading-covid-19-virologist-warns-1.4227323?mode=amp

The media, public and opposition must always question the position of the government and the institutions.

In this case the government position is not to wear masks so that should be critically assessed. If the government was on the other hand recommending masks then the above article would be 100% correct and the right scrutiny the media should be involved in.

McGiver · 13-04-2020 11:12AM

No: I don't care enough

Wibbs wrote: »

Quite right too.

Not going to happen any time soon K. 1) the budget and organisation to do that and more 2) doing so they would have to admit their mistake on their pretty hardline "masks are useless" stance, and your HSE/high up civil service types will almost never admit a mistake(usually only after they retire, or new blood comes in). So I suspect what will happen is well, nothing, until the WHO or the ECDC take the "blame" for them and go with masks as another risk reducing tactic. Then the HSE/high up civil service types can save face.

Wibbs, I think we shouldn't give up but instead organise a campaign to criticise the government and run an awareness campaign for the public benefit. This fatalism is the reason for the Irish government complacency in many areas - they know the public in the general give up in the end. If we give up then nothing will improve and they'll keep doing that. PM me and we can see what to do next...

Kivaro · 13-04-2020 11:13AM

Yes: valved

McGiver wrote: »

Irish Times fawning to the government instead of scrutinising and criticising. Exactly the opposite of what happened in the Czech Republic.
Misleading headline. The expert in the video said that the masks offer modest protection. But the whole interview was framed towards the negative side, the side that the HSE used peddling.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/face-masks-a-potential-hazard-in-spreading-covid-19-virologist-warns-1.4227323?mode=amp

The media, public and opposition must always question the position of the government and the institutions.

In this case the government position is not to wear masks so that should be critically assessed. If the government was on the other hand recommending masks then the above article would be 100% correct and the right scrutiny the media should be involved in.

We should be well aware by now; especially with the upcoming economic situation, that the primary two of RTE and The Irish Times will be front and centre with the Irish Government spin.

You can find commentators warning in public about the collaboration (spin) between the government and certain 'friendly' media outlets.
Scrutiny and a grain of salt should be taken with reports from these outlets.

McGiver · 13-04-2020 11:17AM

No: I don't care enough

Kivaro wrote: »

We should be well aware by now; especially with the upcoming economic situation, that the primary two of RTE and The Irish Times will be front and centre with the Irish Government spin.

You can find commentators warning in public about the collaboration (spin) between the government and certain 'friendly' media outlets.
Scrutiny and a grain of salt should be taken with reports from these outlets.

It's a serious issue for democracy and good governance of the country if there are no media which question the government (of any hue). It's not about FG FF or whatever party, if the media don't question the administration then we're in trouble. And you can see the result, Ireland isn't where it should be as a western/northern European country. Media/journalist complacency is one of the reasons for this...

pbo_massive · 13-04-2020 11:20AM

I’m also a bit confused about masks. Any thoughts on reusing either p2 or surgical masks by placing in UV cleaner between uses? Is that any good? Are the p2s completely useless without replacement filters?

railer201 · 13-04-2020 11:30AM

Yes: valved

Kivaro wrote: »

Every single person in Spain that was allowed to resume work today has to wear a mask. It is compulsory.
And they are all being supplied with these masks.

Wouldn't it be an idea for the Irish government to start sending masks to Irish homes now? Otherwise you will see the Irish people returning to work with all different types of undergarments cut up in the shape of a mask. That may, or may not be a pretty sight.

That will certainly look well on Sky, Euro and CNN news, but oddly enough would be better than people wearing no masks at all. The Government, HSE and WHO can avoid this very probable and nationally embarrassing scene - but will they ?

Perhaps not, which is why people should seriously consider sourcing their own masks from reputable suppliers, or make up a DIY mask to at least the CDC standard, or to the many other good examples on YouTube.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FB--BOyTiU

Thingymebob · 13-04-2020 11:32AM

Yes: surgical

We brought stocks of 3M Aura Particulate Respirator, FFP3, Valved, 9332 masks plus two GVS Elipse P3 Dust Masks in late January/ early February, but I’m now looking more seriously at the DIY versions as donating my GVS mask to my cousin (She’s a key worker but only being given a 1ply mask) and an awareness that our Auras are not an indefinite supply.

I’m planning on making a double layer mask from cotton, with having a middle pocket where I insert a barrier layer cut from 100% Polypropylene melt blown cloth. At the end of each use, the melt blown polypropylene insert will be thrown out, and the mask cleaned in a high temperature washing machine cycle. Thoughts?

ShineOn7 · 13-04-2020 11:42AM

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

Not quite S. Even a badly put on mask so long as it covers the nose and mouth reduces the amount of virus expelled by the sick and the amount inhaled by the healthy. Look at the difference in airflow when just speaking between no mask and a mask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk

Thanks Wibbs

I do think some training is needed for them though in how to put them on/take them off in terms of hand hygiene

It's been emphasized by many health care workers how careful people need to be in this regard

caveat emptor · 13-04-2020 11:48AM

Yes: to protect others

Great micro learning course by euro CDC. (ECDC) . Goes through doning and doffing PPE. While aimed at healthcare staff gives a good insight in proper practice with masks etc.

https://eva.ecdc.europa.eu/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1627

Sam Hain · 13-04-2020 11:50AM

No: other

UrbanFret wrote: »

Why would you wear a mask with an exhaust valve?

ShineOn7 · 13-04-2020 11:56AM

Yes: surgical

UrbanFret wrote: »

Where and how much?

I see "P3" on there which I believe is as good as it gets for these masks

Sam Hain · 13-04-2020 12:01PM

No: other

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

You can buy those thingies that remove hair from your ears you know.

Brilliant, this is some solid factual advice in these uncertain times.

Wibbs · 13-04-2020 12:12PM

Yes: other

Thingymebob wrote: »

I’m planning on making a double layer mask from cotton, with having a middle pocket where I insert a barrier layer cut from 100% Polypropylene melt blown cloth. At the end of each use, the melt blown polypropylene insert will be thrown out, and the mask cleaned in a high temperature washing machine cycle. Thoughts?

That sounds like an ideal DIY setup T.

S.M.B. · 13-04-2020 12:20PM

Would like to do something similar but no idea where I'd get the inner material. Was going to try use dried out baby wipes for now.

Anybody find a good pattern for adding a disposable middle layer. I assume it cannot be pleated which may then affect fit.

Thingymebob · 13-04-2020 12:28PM

Yes: surgical

S.M.B. wrote: »

Would like to do something similar but no idea where I'd get the inner material. Was going to try use dried out baby wipes for now.

Anybody find a good pattern for adding a disposable middle layer. I assume it cannot be pleated which may then affect fit.

This is what Ive ordered to use for the inserts. I plan on using a double thickness, but will have a better idea when it’s delivered and I play around with the design a little. I’ve got some cheap fold up masks from years ago which I’m going to use as a template.

https://www.thewipeshop.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=182

They’re made of melt blown material or non-woven polypropylene which is capable of filtering out microscopic particles. The material is used for medical-grade masks, such as N95 respirators, and for looser-fitting surgical masks, which are more for keeping the wearer from spreading disease and protecting them from sprays of liquid.

stockshares · 13-04-2020 12:34PM

https://twitter.com/MaeveWalsh16/status/1249654611570561024?s=19

UrbanFret · 13-04-2020 12:48PM

Yes: homemade

Sam Hain wrote: »

Why would you wear a mask with an exhaust valve?

The mask forms a seal against your face.its an exhalation valve. It's designed to protect the wearer.

cryptocurrency · 13-04-2020 12:52PM

Sam Hain wrote: »

Why would you wear a mask with an exhaust valve?

sigh

UrbanFret · 13-04-2020 12:56PM

Yes: homemade

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Where and how much?

I see "P3" on there which I believe is as good as it gets for these masks

They're fire service issue. I believe they're manufactured in both Dublin and cork.

This REDBACK FFP3 Dustmask with an elasticated headband and nose-clip protects against very fine non-toxic dusts & liquid aerosols in concentrations up to up to 50 x MAC*/OEL*TLV*, fibres & aqueous mists, oil mists, welding fumes & microbiological hazards. This two-way incorporates an exhalation valve which makes breathing easier. Standard: EN 149:2001 +A1:2009 FFP2 NR D.

Mjscannell are the manufacturers I believe.

Arrival · 13-04-2020 01:29PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Thanks Otnomart.

What boggles my mind is the spin on this forum about masks being useless because of the lack of "training".
Here's an outside-the-box suggestion:
How about RTE, instead of bombarding us with warnings and threats about not having a television license every second ad, how about RTE broadcasting public service announcements on how to use masks correctly?
I could create an animation in about 15 minutes for this. But I suppose the RTE unions would have to get involved, so it could take a while for them.

And the question about "what masks"?
This should not be our problem. The government and HSE should have started the procurement process months ago, and since they failed in that aspect, then they should source the masks in-country, by getting various manufacturers involved.
Weird concept? Right? Or maybe not.

The government and HSE are waiting for the moment to backtrack and save face and then change their mask guidance, but in the meantime Covid-19 is spreading unnecessarily around the country. As I said in another post, it is not the complete solution, but it definitely helps.

I am at a loss sometimes when I hear people on here with the "no, no, no, .... impossible" attitude. People with fortitude in this country can achieve these things because they have a "can do" attitude, and they are not afraid of the challenges ahead.

Yeah they're ****ing losers, simple as that really. Can guarantee they're useless themselves in real life

otnomart · 13-04-2020 01:32PM

Photos of distribution of masks at public transport in Spain this morning.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/04/13/album/1586757503_343145.html

McGiver · 13-04-2020 01:37PM

No: I don't care enough

Important - can some mod make this sticky? Please broadcast this into all possible networks and social media.

Existing University of Cambridge research shows that simple cotton cloth face masks filter at least 50-60% influenza virus particles. This is very significant and proves how incompetent and wrong the Irish and other governments were about this.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/diy-homemade-mask-protect-virus-coronavirus/?rel=1&utm_source=quora&utm_medium=referral

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic

Sam Hain · 13-04-2020 02:21PM

No: other

cryptocurrency wrote: »

sigh

Great contribution, maybe you could be enlighten me, rather than being condescending. I look forward to hearing your expert opinions on the subject.

cryptocurrency · 13-04-2020 02:25PM

Sam Hain wrote: »

Great contribution, maybe you could be enlighten me, rather than being condescending. I look forward to hearing your expert opinions on the subject.

P3 masks are made of a synthetic fibre, which allows them to filter out finer particles. The valve on the front of the mask releases air, preventing moisture build-up.

Sam Hain · 13-04-2020 02:27PM

No: other

UrbanFret wrote: »

The mask forms a seal against your face.its an exhalation valve. It's designed to protect the wearer.

Exactly. If by chance you are asymptomatic, this gives you a false sense of security when around others. There are far better options out there that protect both the wearer and the general public. Why not don one of those instead.

Sam Hain · 13-04-2020 02:29PM

No: other

cryptocurrency wrote: »

P3 masks are made of a synthetic fibre, which allows them to filter out finer particles. The valve on the front of the mask releases air, preventing moisture build-up.

I know how the the mask works.

Masks

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