Masks

masculinist

Yes: other

greasepalm wrote: »

Originally Posted by masculinist View Post
Well adverts and Facebook too won't let me even give away my ffp2 and ffp3 masks for free. Or let me enter the free market and secure my families safety. Its not like I wouldn't need money to extend my life anyway if I developed cancer tomorrow.
The HSE has done nothing except acknowledge my contact a few weeks ago.

I am sure plenty of places would accept masks local nursing home,carers,and the list could go on.

Its ridiculous people can't sell them on adverts while Adverts itself and Facebook makes money from Ali Express
advertising masks flashing across the screen.
You have no idea how much trouble and expense I went through in order to secure n95 masks compared to the offers on adverts which were taken down.
The HSE have an email for mask donations. Its been about 3 weeks and apart from acknowledging my gift offer nobodys actually asked me to drop my spare ffp3/2 masks anywhere. The free market is generally the only force that gets stuff done. I reckon inflation will make what i paid for a mask look like a bargain

Wibbs

Yes: other

New Yorkers by executive order will have to wear face masks now when out in public and not able to distance.

New Yorkers will be forced to wear a facial covering such as a bandana or mask when they're in public and cannot socially distance themselves from others, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday. Cuomo said he would sign an executive order mandating the facial covering and give people three days to become compliant with the new rules. Cuomo said civil violations, while not enacted yet, could be in store for people who are not wearing a facial covering in public and are not at least 6 feet from others.

The order includes public transit and even busy sidewalks and intersections, Cuomo said.

"Stopping the spread is everything," he said. "How could you not wear a mask?"

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

Bob24 wrote:

In my mind when I said Eastern Europe, there was no such thing as Central Europe, so the country has to be either Eastern or Western (which is in line with the

Sorry for OT, but I have to clarify. This Western/Eastern Europe dichotomy is obsolete Cold War terminology and politically tainted. Both geographically and culturally incorrect.

The UN regions are quite bogus. Who uses them? They are incorrect geographically.


UK & Ireland are Northern Europe there - Western Europe in any other publications

Slovenia is Southern Europe there - Central Europe in reality

Germany and Austria are Western Europe there - Central Europe in reality

Czechia is Eastern Europe there - Central Europe in reality

Hungary is Eastern Europe there while Serbia is Southern - makes no sense.

Austria is Western Europe in UN while Czechia is Eastern Europe in UN - Austria's capital lies 250km east of Czech capital and Austria's territory extends a bit more to the east than Czechia's - makes no sense.

CIA World Factbook

Czechia - Central Europe, between Germany, Poland, Slovakia, and Austria

Encyclopedia Britannica

Czech Republic, also called Czechia, country located in central Europe.

Wikipedia

The Czech Republic, also known by its short-form name, Czechia, is a landlocked country in Central Europe

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

Wibbs wrote: »

New Yorkers by executive order will have to wear face masks now when out in public and not able to distance.

New Yorkers will be forced to wear a facial covering such as a bandana or mask when they're in public and cannot socially distance themselves from others, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday. Cuomo said he would sign an executive order mandating the facial covering and give people three days to become compliant with the new rules. Cuomo said civil violations, while not enacted yet, could be in store for people who are not wearing a facial covering in public and are not at least 6 feet from others.

The order includes public transit and even busy sidewalks and intersections, Cuomo said.

"Stopping the spread is everything," he said. "How could you not wear a mask?"

Sadly, Irish local authorities have feck no competencies and can't do this. There's literally almost no local autonomy in Ireland. We have to wait for Simon Harris to be arsed...

I believe Spanish and Italian regions have powers to mandate things like this. Their regionalism is quite deep. Not sure if they used such powers.

everlast75

Given the leaning towards the wearing of masks, have the contributors of this thread settled on the best masks to get, in terms of efficiency and value for money?

Any advice in that regard would be very much appreciated.

maninasia

Yes: homemade

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Read the WHO & HSE guidelines on masks. Wearing one to the shops is a waste of a mask and money. They have no proven benefits unless you have the Virus or are nursing someone who has the virus.

Go sit outside a hospital and watch. You won't see doctors & nurses wearing masks coming out of work & on their journey home. They have been trained & they know masks are of no use in general use. They are a comfort thing for adults. Like a comfort blanket for a child. If you need an adults version of a blankey & don't mind looking stupid then go ahead and but them. Like surgical gloves they need to be replaced every 15 to 30 minutes so you will need to invest in a few dozen at a time

So....Wrong.

Taiwan once again had NO new cases today. Mask wearing is a big contributor to cutting transmission .

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

What's the current price of FFP2 / FFP3 masks?
Amazon, eBay or locally.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

everlast75 wrote: »

Given the leaning towards the wearing of masks, have the contributors of this thread settled on the best masks to get, in terms of efficiency and value for money?

Any advice in that regard would be very much appreciated.

Anything works. Nothing to settle.

Double layer cotton face mask filters 60%+. If you insert filter in between into design you're going much higher. This is the cheapest solution as you can wash them and reuse them. If you use the filter design, you can replace it cheaply too.

Medical grade disposables are more effective (surgical 80%+, N95 95%, FFP3 99%+) but expensive. Also not easily reusable.

Edit: hence the US CDC and Czechs/Slovaks/Austrians recommended cloth face masks. It's the easiest solution to be widely adopted. There's more issues with the medical grade e.g. hard to supply them, potential infection if people reuse them etc.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

khalessi wrote: »

I teach and have said to my parents when I go back I will wear a mask and I can guarantee I will be the only one. I will look like an idiot but sure they think I am half mad anyhows so lets just add to it, at least I will feel safer.

We really need a campaign. Simple website and flyers.

One thing, apart from dispelling ignorance and HSE lies, would be to stress that nobody should feel like an idiot wearing mask.

I'd say something like - Don't feel like an idiot or awkward - by wearing a mask you are protecting the old and vulnerable, you are saving lives and you are also protecting yourself. This is a good thing do.

paddy19

No: I don't care enough

We have amazing lab measurement equipment that can measure parts per billion.

If you take anything and measure it at a small enough level you can find virtually anything. The best example is cocaine on a third to a half of $50 and $100 bills.

"In one 1985 study done by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration on the money machines in a U.S. Federal Reserve district bank, random samples of $50 and $100 bills revealed that a third to a half of all the currency tested bore traces of cocaine."

The question that has not been answered is there enough viral load in aerosols to infect another person?

paddy19

No: I don't care enough

McGiver wrote: »

We really need a campaign. Simple website and flyers.

One thing, apart from dispelling ignorance and HSE lies, would be to stress that nobody should feel like an idiot wearing mask.

I'd say something like - Don't feel like an idiot or awkward - by wearing a mask you are protecting the old and vulnerable, you are saving lives and you are also protecting yourself. This is a good thing do.

The HSE recommended that everyone over 70 should be isolated.
An easy no cost, knee jerk reaction.

They failed to think where the most vulnerable old people were living.
Care homes.

Did they think and spend the time and money on resources, PPE and tests to protect these vulnerable people and their carers?

No, it was much easier to tell everyone over 70 to isolate.

This "everyone wear a mask idea" is the same process, masks at no cost to the state option.

How about we get everyone in our care homes to wear a surgical mask, which has actually been shown to reduce viral load.

everlast75

McGiver wrote: »

Anything works. Nothing to settle.

Double layer cotton face mask filters 60%+. If you insert filter in between into design you're going much higher. This is the cheapest solution as you can wash them and reuse them. If you use the filter design, you can replace it cheaply too.

Medical grade disposables are more effective (surgical 80%+, N95 95%, FFP3 99%+) but expensive. Also not easily reusable.

Edit: hence the US CDC and Czechs/Slovaks/Austrians recommended cloth face masks. It's the easiest solution to be widely adopted. There's more issues with the medical grade e.g. hard to supply them, potential infection if people reuse them etc.

has anyone any specific recommendations/links?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pollution-Filtering-Dustproof-Washable-Protection/dp/B0867FRLWC/ref=sr_1_13?crid=22N9I3KH9UKBM&dchild=1&keywords=face+masks&qid=1587032862&sprefix=face+mask%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-13

with these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/chengJellyLibrary-Activated-Replaceable-Filters-Protective/dp/B0855QWMR2/ref=sr_1_44?crid=3HTKOTAFKG193&dchild=1&keywords=face+masks+medical+virus&qid=1587032923&sprefix=face+masks+%2Caps%2C214&sr=8-44

2u2me

paddy19 wrote: »

The question that has not been answered is there enough viral load in aerosols to infect another person?

I heard a South Korean expert explain it like this.

If you're outside, probably not. Near impossible to get enough viral load without direct droplets.

If you're inside and recirculating the same air.. yes! Try to keep the windows open circulating air as much as possible.

He mentioned one case of a 'superspreader' who went to mass to sing hymns with other people for hours. They were top floor in a large buildling no windows open because it was cold. She was singing(spitting) a lot , was enough to infect many people.
Air was warm, recirculating a lot. A lot of wind draught as everyone was singing.

caveat emptor

Yes: to protect others

everlast75 wrote: »

Given the leaning towards the wearing of masks, have the contributors of this thread settled on the best masks to get, in terms of efficiency and value for money?

Any advice in that regard would be very much appreciated.

I'd go for a full face reusable respirator. N99 or higher. If you are going to reduce the risk you may swell reduce as much as possible.

Here's a guide from 3m that goes through the different types with explanatory videos.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/safety-centers-of-expertise-us/respiratory-protection/respirator-selection/

millb

maninasia wrote: »

So....Wrong.

Taiwan once again had NO new cases today. Mask wearing is a big contributor to cutting transmission .

This is where Trumph could be right and the WHO wrong. Now the Irish folks L'ON now saying to wear a mask when out.

Pat Kenny flagged this 2 weeks ago. They gota act as the curve is not going down and there is a deal of unexplained (ongoing) community spreading.

Joggers / runners should have to wear masks as their particles reach up to 6 meters in the slipstream..

(Deaths are going to stay up due to the Elderly Care Homes where there could be between 500 and 3,000 deaths in the coming weeks.)

rossie1977

Wearing of masks or some sort of covering for nose and mouth should be compulsory upon leaving the house..

I went shopping yesterday and I only saw two people apart from myself wearing masks. I saw numerous older women (75+) not wearing and not adhering to proper social distancing either. Two guys both around late 50s were having a great long chat side by side in the store.

maninasia

Yes: homemade

paddy19 wrote: »

We have amazing lab measurement equipment that can measure parts per billion.

If you take anything and measure it at a small enough level you can find virtually anything. The best example is cocaine on a third to a half of $50 and $100 bills.

"In one 1985 study done by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration on the money machines in a U.S. Federal Reserve district bank, random samples of $50 and $100 bills revealed that a third to a half of all the currency tested bore traces of cocaine."

The question that has not been answered is there enough viral load in aerosols to infect another person?

Yes, in some situations most definitely.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-strikes-45-of-60-people-who-went-to-mount-vernon-washington-choir-practice

2u2me

maninasia wrote: »

Yes, in some situations most definitely.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-strikes-45-of-60-people-who-went-to-mount-vernon-washington-choir-practice

The story reads nearly the same as the one I heard in South Korea.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-superspreader-south-korea-church.html

Kivaro

Yes: valved

Finally heard on the radio this afternoon that wearing masks should be compulsory in Ireland. Professor of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin, Luke O'Neill, explained the reasons why.

Since this pandemic started in Ireland many weeks ago, a number of us called for this action due to the highly contagious nature of Covid-19, plus the fact that countries and large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight.

But the Irish government and HSE said no.
How about now?
I understand that the Irish authorities will be in abject shock with the thought of reversing their badly-thought-out decision to now supply its citizens with a simple life-saving device. It may take a bit more prodding to shake them to their senses.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

everlast75 wrote: »

has anyone any specific recommendations/links?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pollution-Filtering-Dustproof-Washable-Protection/dp/B0867FRLWC/ref=sr_1_13?crid=22N9I3KH9UKBM&dchild=1&keywords=face+masks&qid=1587032862&sprefix=face+mask%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-13

with these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/chengJellyLibrary-Activated-Replaceable-Filters-Protective/dp/B0855QWMR2/ref=sr_1_44?crid=3HTKOTAFKG193&dchild=1&keywords=face+masks+medical+virus&qid=1587032923&sprefix=face+masks+%2Caps%2C214&sr=8-44

All from China. Don't support them, they caused this crap.

Business Address:
longgangqubantianjiedaolipujie
dezhonggongyeyuan2lou2A-B
shenzhen
guangdong
518000
CN

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

Kivaro wrote: »

Finally heard on the radio this afternoon that wearing masks should be compulsory in Ireland. Professor of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin, Luke O'Neill, explained the reasons why.

Since this pandemic started in Ireland many weeks ago, a number of us called for this action due to the highly contagious nature of Covid-19, plus the fact that countries and large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight.

But the Irish government and HSE said no.
How about now?
I understand that the Irish authorities will be in abject shock with the thought of reversing their badly-thought-out decision to now supply its citizens with a simple life-saving device. It may take a bit more prodding to shake them to their senses.

That's good news! I find the Irish debate lacking any critical aspect. It's gaining momentum. Will see what we can do about timing of the campaign.

I'm 100% sure masks will be needed as part of the exit strategy eventually, so I hope to time the campaign right.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

rossie1977 wrote: »

Wearing of masks or some sort of covering for nose and mouth should be compulsory upon leaving the house..

I went shopping yesterday and I only saw two people apart from myself wearing masks. I saw numerous older women (75+) not wearing and not adhering to proper social distancing either. Two guys both around late 50s were having a great long chat side by side in the store.

Anywhere in public is what Czechia, Slovakia and Austria did. It's a bit extreme, but it's good. I would be OK with Irish gov recommending/mandating masks in closed spaces - shops, stores, public transport etc as a minimum.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

Kivaro wrote: »

Finally heard on the radio this afternoon that wearing masks should be compulsory in Ireland. Professor of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin, Luke O'Neill, explained the reasons why.

Since this pandemic started in Ireland many weeks ago, a number of us called for this action due to the highly contagious nature of Covid-19, plus the fact that countries and large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight.

But the Irish government and HSE said no.
How about now?
I understand that the Irish authorities will be in abject shock with the thought of reversing their badly-thought-out decision to now supply its citizens with a simple life-saving device. It may take a bit more prodding to shake them to their senses.

Is a recording of this available somewhere online?

paddy19

No: I don't care enough

rossie1977 wrote: »

Wearing of masks or some sort of covering for nose and mouth should be compulsory upon leaving the house..

I went shopping yesterday and I only saw two people apart from myself wearing masks. I saw numerous older women (75+) not wearing and not adhering to proper social distancing either. Two guys both around late 50s were having a great long chat side by side in the store.

"Wearing of masks or some sort of covering for nose and mouth should be compulsory upon leaving the house.."

Says who, what scientific evidence shows masks work outdoors.

So a minority are breaking a rule that is 4 weeks old. Your answer is to introduce another rule that effects everybody. On that logic we wouldn't have traffic lights we have crash barriers because a minority break the lights.

New rules take time to become accepted practice.

Wibbs

Yes: other

They're already changing some of their tune. Whereas before it was masks are unlikely to be of any benefit, now they're adding instructions on how to wear one.

Face masks

Wearing a mask is unlikely to be of any benefit if you are not sick.

If you do need to wear a mask, here is how to use one properly.
How to put on and wear a face mask properly etc

That's a shift from even a week ago. I expect more as more places around the world make them cop the fcuk on. Though I still suspect it'll require the WHO, or more likely the ECDC to say it first, so they can repeat the "only following orders" get out of gaol free card they've been playing from the get go.

paddy19

No: I don't care enough

maninasia wrote: »

Yes, in some situations most definitely.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-strikes-45-of-60-people-who-went-to-mount-vernon-washington-choir-practice

I have no problem seeing the logic and evidence that choirs belting out songs in a confined space for hours can transmit the virus.

It's one hell of a jump to everybody wearing masks everywhere as the Pat Kenny/Joe Duffy media pluggers are pushing.

paddy19

No: I don't care enough

Kivaro wrote: »

Finally heard on the radio this afternoon that wearing masks should be compulsory in Ireland. Professor of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin, Luke O'Neill, explained the reasons why.

Since this pandemic started in Ireland many weeks ago, a number of us called for this action due to the highly contagious nature of Covid-19, plus the fact that countries and large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight.

Due respects to the good professor but I have seen jilch evidence that masks work outdoors. What has been well established is that close proximity to an infected person for 15 minutes is high risk. I can see the case where choirs singing for hours in a confined space should wear masks.

But it's a mighty jump to everyone wearing masks everywhere.

"large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight. "

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this, therefore because of this.

To ascribe the wearing of masks outdoors to doing "well in the fight" is stretching logic.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

paddy19 wrote: »

Due respects to the good professor but I have seen jilch evidence that masks work outdoors. What has been well established is that close proximity to an infected person for 15 minutes is high risk. I can see the case where choirs singing for hours in a confined space should wear masks.

But it's a mighty jump to everyone wearing masks everywhere.

"large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight. "

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this, therefore because of this.

To ascribe the wearing of masks outdoors to doing "well in the fight" is stretching logic.

A-ha. You may need to check the thread properly for evidence.

See my post #1080

"Close proximity for 15 minutes" is a HSE bollox. Even WHO doesn't mention it.

To prevent infection and to slow transmission of COVID-19, do the following:
Wash your hands regularly with soap and water, or clean them with alcohol-based hand rub.
Maintain at least 1 metre distance between you and people coughing or sneezing.
Avoid touching your face.
Cover your mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing.
Stay home if you feel unwell.
Refrain from smoking and other activities that weaken the lungs.
Practice physical distancing by avoiding unnecessary travel and staying away from large groups of people.

One cough, sneeze or even breath and you may get it. Hence masks work.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

paddy19 wrote: »

"Wearing of masks or some sort of covering for nose and mouth should be compulsory upon leaving the house.."

Says who, what scientific evidence shows masks work outdoors.

So a minority are breaking a rule that is 4 weeks old. Your answer is to introduce another rule that effects everybody. On that logic we wouldn't have traffic lights we have crash barriers because a minority break the lights.

New rules take time to become accepted practice.

What's your point exactly?

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

Wibbs wrote: »

They're already changing some of their tune. Whereas before it was masks are unlikely to be of any benefit, now they're adding instructions on how to wear one.

Face masks

Wearing a mask is unlikely to be of any benefit if you are not sick.

If you do need to wear a mask, here is how to use one properly.
How to put on and wear a face mask properly etc

That's a shift from even a week ago. I expect more as more places around the world make them cop the fcuk on. Though I still suspect it'll require the WHO, or more likely the ECDC to say it first, so they can repeat the "only following orders" get out of gaol free card they've been playing from the get go.

ECDC are ambiguous on the issue. Kind of a lukewarm recommendation. WHO is a different story.