Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Suckit · 05-04-2020 12:27PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

I'm unclear, was the priest a member of a political party and/or did they inflict bodily harm on anyone?

And yes, the criminal law is selective - this isn't kangaroo justice, the law treats crimes against property as completely different to crimes against people - because, most people would regard inflicting life-changing injuries, grevious harm, or death on someone as completely different to depriving someone of property.

If someone can't see the difference then maybe, yes, SF is definitely the party for them.

If somebody is using their political position/ power for personal gain, and ensuring dodgy underhanded deals are being passed through, then they should not be allowed to continue and contracts should have been voided.

But if you are all for corruption and party before the people, and can't see a problem with the government looking after their own and taking money for contracts then yes, FG is the party for you.

FrancieBrady · 05-04-2020 12:30PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

No, but why don't you?

And you don't have to go back 20 years to find photos that are not appalling when it comes to SF

Btw, it's less than 20 years since McDonald spoke alongside former IRA Chief of Staff Brian Keenan, at a ceremony eulogising the Second World War IRA Nazi sympathiser and Nazi collaborator, the then IRA Chief of Staff Sean Russell.

Keenan was behind the kidnap and subsequent murder of the Managing Director of Grundig in Belfast, Thomas Niedermayer. He was beaten to death, dumped in a shallow, and it was years before his body was found. His wife and two daughters subsequently committed suicide.

But in SF's view that's not appalling - but a photo op, even if it's ill timed and self-aggrandising, is????

And you wonder why no one wants to share power with you?

The war/conflict is over Sultan.

If you are going to be even handed in this, ANYONE who has taken part in a war is excluded from politics. Is that what you are saying?

How would this state ever have gotten started if that was the case?

And the Dowdall one is just shameful. How was MLMD to know when she stood for a photo what was going on in his life?

There are photos of certain politicians with Malcolm McArthur who savagely murdered a few people. NOBODY is digging them up in a pathetic attempt to implicate those politicians.

Grow up a bit here.

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 12:33PM

Suckit wrote: »

If somebody is using their political position/ power for personal gain, and ensuring dodgy underhanded deals are being passed through, then they should not be allowed to continue and contracts should have been voided.

But if you are all for corruption and party before the people, and can't see a problem with the government looking after their own and taking money for contracts then yes, FG is the party for you.

Yeah, again if you can't see the difference between Lowry and O'Brien compared to Russell and Keenan, then SF are the party for you.......

If the choice is between corruption, shady business practices and stroke politics or collaboration with the Nazis, punishment beatings and waterboarding.......I'll take the former over the latter - it's not perfect, I may end up poorer than I otherwise might be but at least I don't have worry about getting sent to a concentration camp or being relieved of my kneecaps.

FrancieBrady · 05-04-2020 12:37PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Yeah, again if you can't see the difference between Lowry and O'Brien compared to Russell and Keenan, then SF are the party for you.......

If the choice is between corruption, shady business practices and stroke politics or collaboration with the Nazis, punishment beatings and waterboarding.......I'll take the former over the latter - it's not perfect, I may end up poorer than I otherwise might be but at least I don't have worry about getting sent to a concentration camp or being relieved of my kneecaps.

Almost like a comedy post tbh.

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 12:44PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Almost like a comedy post tbh.

Did McDonald not eulogise Russell?

Was Russell not actively collaborating with the Nazis?

Had the Nazis not identifiedm at Wannsee, that Ireland had a Jewish population of 4000?

If Russell had his way and was put in power by the Nazis do you really think we wouldn't have to pay an exacting price for that?

You might think Nazi collaboration, punishment beatings, shooting kids (as some kind of internal discipline measure), kangaroo courts, etc etc etc etc are funny, but not many outside SF do

Suckit · 05-04-2020 12:47PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Yeah, again if you can't see the difference between Lowry and O'Brien compared to Russell and Keenan, then SF are the party for you.......

If the choice is between corruption, shady business practices and stroke politics or collaboration with the Nazis, punishment beatings and waterboarding.......I'll take the former over the latter - it's not perfect, I may end up poorer than I otherwise might be but at least I don't have worry about getting sent to a concentration camp or being relieved of my kneecaps.

WTF is that post, absolute nonsense, apart from basically admitting and agreeing that FG are corrupt an you're alright with that, then you continue surmising that SF are involved in the rest.

If you vote SF you'll likely end up in a concentration camp... :rolleyes:

Yet, it has been proven DOB gave money for contracts, and he is STILL getting them left, right and centre whenever FG are wielding power.
No surmising there.

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 12:51PM

Suckit wrote: »

WTF is that post, absolute nonsense, apart from basically admitting and agreeing that FG are corrupt an you're alright with that, then you continue surmising that SF are involved in the rest.

If you vote SF you'll likely end up in a concentration camp... :rolleyes:

Yet, it has been proven DOB gave money for contracts, and he is STILL getting them left, right and centre whenever FG are weilding power.
No surmising there.

Per the association between Russell and the Nazis.

And yes, I don't doubt there is corruption in politics and it needs to be rooted out - but if the choice is between people who fleece other people, and people who kill and maim, then yeah, it's not perfect but I'd prefer the crooks to the psychopaths,

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 12:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

FF had a nazi sympathizer in the dail until.the mid 60s and we need not even mention FG background here

Your right to critise SF in relation to this,just seems hypocritical not to point out actions of other parties here

There is a world of difference between a sympathiser and a collaborationist

05-04-2020 12:56PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

There is a world of difference between a sympathiser and a collaborationist

Meh,pretty hard to justify sympathizing with the nazis upto the mid 60s,given what became known about what they were upto

But sure lookit FF are all things to all men i guess.

Suckit · 05-04-2020 12:56PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Per the association between Russell and the Nazis.

And yes, I don't doubt there is corruption in politics and it needs to be rooted out - but if the choice is between people who fleece other people, and people who kill and maim, then yeah, it's not perfect but I'd prefer the crooks to the psychopaths,

You keep throwing around the beatings and murder as though you have some sort of proof that it is happening today. If you do, please share it with us, I for one would be more than happy to see it.

After all, if DOB is still doing deals and getting contracts while FG are in power, then that should be brought up every day.
It is as if the Moriarty Tribunal did absolutely nothing except waste millions of taxpayers money and allow them to rinse and repeat the process. FG his 'pet party'.

If you have any proof that SF are dealing with criminals today, please share it or shut up with your nonsense.

Runaways · 05-04-2020 12:56PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Per the association between Russell and the Nazis.

And yes, I don't doubt there is corruption in politics and it needs to be rooted out - but if the choice is between people who fleece other people, and people who kill and maim, then yeah, it's not perfect but I'd prefer the crooks to the psychopaths,

Denis o Brien calls the shots m. Fg dance to his tune. Somehow.

That’s a far more dangerous and serious matter than imaginary men in ballies

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 12:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh,pretty hard to justify sympathizing with the nazis upto the mid 60s,given what became known about what they were upto

But sure lookit FF are all things to all men i guess

Agreed, but is not pretty hard to justify appearing on platform with Keenan or hosting a night for a "birdwatcher"

jimmonaghan-1.png?w=720

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 01:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh,havnt seen anyone justifying this though?

Like i attended an commeration last year,where FG (along with FF and SF) members shared a platform with a dissident speaker (i live in an area,where divisions on this are slim to non-existant)

I wouldnt critise them,nor justify it,but everyone is entitled to have their views heard,even the dissidents??

Like FF critise SF,while holding commerations for wolf tone,every year,like FG critise SF and hold commerarions at beal na blaith every year,and SF critise dissidents

Irish politics is completly lined with bullsh1tters and hypocrites

(Your critising SF for criminal activitys,while FF and FG are preparing to reinclude lowry to make a government)

I'm not criticising SF for criminal activity, I'm criticising them for condoning and excusing violence against their fellow citizens.

tikkahunter · 05-04-2020 01:19PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The war/conflict is over Sultan.

If you are going to be even handed in this, ANYONE who has taken part in a war is excluded from politics. Is that what you are saying?

How would this state ever have gotten started if that was the case?

And the Dowdall one is just shameful. How was MLMD to know when she stood for a photo what was going on in his life?

There are photos of certain politicians with Malcolm McArthur who savagely murdered a few people. NOBODY is digging them up in a pathetic attempt to implicate those politicians.

Grow up a bit here.

She lives 2 minutes from him on the same road , she knows well who he is .

Edgware · 05-04-2020 01:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its pure hyprocrisy,FF and FG have background in the same...its only a few weeks since ballyseedy massacre anniversary,ive relativez who were tortured and left for dead by blueshirts...as many again who were assulted and houses wreaked several times by the heavy gang during the troubles (and also during 50s and 60s)

Yet we are expected to fall in line and cheer on gaurds etc during this time of crisis??

Make no bones about it,ff and fg are as capable of standing over violence as sinn fein are....what did charlie flanagan call anyone who didnt support ric commerations,oh yeah sinister elements

Have you a spellcheck on your laptop?

FrancieBrady · 05-04-2020 01:47PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Did McDonald not eulogise Russell?

Was Russell not actively collaborating with the Nazis?

Had the Nazis not identifiedm at Wannsee, that Ireland had a Jewish population of 4000?

If Russell had his way and was put in power by the Nazis do you really think we wouldn't have to pay an exacting price for that?

You might think Nazi collaboration, punishment beatings, shooting kids (as some kind of internal discipline measure), kangaroo courts, etc etc etc etc are funny, but not many outside SF do

Plenty of threads have debated the sensationalism around Russell. Ridiculous hindsight arguments around him. Find them...I am not going down that rabbit hole here.

tikkahunter wrote: »

She lives 2 minutes from him on the same road , she knows well who he is .

Malcolm McArthur lived in the apartment of the AG...what is your point?
There is a guy near here that killed his wife...I knew him, mixed with him, does that make me guilty of something? Are the members of the clubs/organisation he belonged to guilty by association?

Desperately seeking a whiff of sulphur is just that...desperate - not to mention pathetic.

05-04-2020 02:20PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ah maybe it's just me but I can't find respect for a liar no matter the circumstances.

What's your view on men who protect sex offenders?

Who don't go to the authorities when they hear of it in their own family?

Runaways · 05-04-2020 02:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's your view on men who protect sex offenders?

Who don't go to the authorities when they hear of it in their own family?

Ehhh FF and FG turned a blind eye to the plight of countless children and women since pretty much the foundation of the state. As well as enabling it.

Don’t go there.

05-04-2020 02:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Like the kennealys??

Or what of a political party,who would send family members of a prolific peadophile to canvass for votes off a victim,who they tried to bribe into silence?

And when said TD was critised for abusing people on social media,went on local radio and said russia interfered with their social media page??

Christ theres some morans in the dail

Glad she didn't get in. It's disgraceful.

But I asked the question to Plumbthedepths, since he views lying so, so seriously.

05-04-2020 02:31PM

Runaways wrote: »

Ehhh FF and FG turned a blind eye to the plight of countless children and women since pretty much the foundation of the state. As well as enabling it.

Don’t go there.

This is part of the problem, we absolutely should "go there" as a country and examine these issues.

Runaways · 05-04-2020 02:37PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is part of the problem, we absolutely should "go there" as a country and examine these issues.

Will in with you there all the way.
I probably misread your post. I always get an eyeroll when this comes up in relation to Gerry Adams brother. Thought that’s where you were going. Sorry if I read it wrong

We do need to get into all that. But it’ll never happen.

05-04-2020 02:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Politian im referring to did get in,and is most likely going to be a junior minister....being only FF/FG member elected in this constituency,otherwise the shinners will dismantle there network and take ther seat at next election

Waterford I think? My mistake. Fully agree it's disgraceful behaviour.

Mind you, Waterford needs better TD's than it's had for a long time, imo.

05-04-2020 02:39PM

Runaways wrote: »

Will in with you there all the way.
I probably misread your post. I always get an eyeroll when this comes up in relation to Gerry Adams brother. Thought that’s where you were going. Sorry if I read it wrong

We do need to get into all that. But it’ll never happen.

I'd apply it to all parties.

I'm not so naive as to think politicians don't lie hence my question to PtD but I really do think it's abhorrent when they cover up things like sexual abuse, which is legitimate query to put to Adams (or was when he was a TD).

Enda Kenny, tbf to him, did stand up to the Vatican on it.

Runaways · 05-04-2020 02:42PM

Mad the way it’s always English media reporting this stuff.

I’d say Leo will be furious. Welfare cheats cheat us all n all that

https://twitter.com/joeleogue/status/1246708989934669824?s=21

FrancieBrady · 05-04-2020 02:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd apply it to all parties.

I'm not so naive as to think politicians don't lie hence my question to PtD but I really do think it's abhorrent when they cover up things like sexual abuse, which is legitimate query to put to Adams (or was when he was a TD).

Enda Kenny, tbf to him, did stand up to the Vatican on it.

Adams has dealt with what happened and apologised for his handling of Liam's crimes.

Enda has never explained why he fought Louise O'Keefe all the way to the European Court and even when Ireland lost the case refused to implement the child protection procedures it mandated. (All when he was posing for pics with Maria Cahill too)

Hypocritical?

05-04-2020 02:45PM

Runaways wrote: »

Mad the way it’s always English media reporting this stuff.

I’d say Leo will be furious. Welfare cheats cheat us all n all that

https://twitter.com/joeleogue/status/1246708989934669824?s=21

What welfare cheats are you on about?

05-04-2020 02:50PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Adams has dealt with what happened and apologised for his handling of Liam's crimes.

Enda has never explained why he fought Louise O'Keefe all the way to the European Court and even when Ireland lost the case refused to implement the child protection procedures it mandated. (All when he was posing for pics with Maria Cahill too)

Hypocritical?

Is an apology enough? After all, Liam was left abusing kids for something like 13 more years? Anyhow, my point is really is that ok but lying isn't?

Interesting to bring up Mairia Cahill, not SF's finest moment but thanks for reminding us all on where they stand on raping kids.

https://www.thejournal.ie/mairia-cahill-mary-lou-mcdonald-2-4350885-Nov2018/

The Louise O'Keefe case was a matter of public policy as to where liability stood, afaik? The State wanted the liability to rest on the Church as the body running the individual schools day to day?

Runaways · 05-04-2020 02:54PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What welfare cheats are you on about?

Good question. Like the WMDs. There were none to be found.

Sultan_of_Ping · 05-04-2020 02:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Its pure hyprocrisy,FF and FG have background in the same...its only a few weeks since ballyseedy massacre anniversary,ive relativez who were tortured and left for dead by blueshirts...as many again who were assulted and houses wreaked several times by the heavy gang during the troubles (and also during 50s and 60s)

Yet we are expected to fall in line and cheer on gaurds etc during this time of crisis??

Make no bones about it,ff and fg are as capable of standing over violence as sinn fein are....what did charlie flanagan call anyone who didnt support ric commerations,oh yeah sinister elements

I know people get confused over history......

But......

Ballyseedy massacre - 1923
Army Comrades Association - founded 1932
Fine Gael - founded 1933
Fianna Fáil - founded 1926

......so you are blaming organisations for events that occurred before they existed......riiiiiiight.

Runaways · 05-04-2020 03:05PM

I’d say Michael is circling the drain at this point

https://twitter.com/chezmik/status/1246581883653238785?s=21

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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