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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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  • #1292
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    What is the actual point of SF up the North if they have no power to govern or do anything as we're told????

    What do they actually do??


    Plenty of information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Assembly


  • #1293
    piplip87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭piplip87


    How many meeting has MaryLou had with Independents and the other smaller parties over the last few days. One would think the would be flat out trying to find common ground to keep FFG out of power.


  • #1294
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I am not particularly focussed on them at all. I predicted they would try to do this long before the crisis. Pretend to be taking the high moral ground but really trying to manipulate things so that they could continue the power swap.

    It was all going swimingly until The Greens with an actual conscience (if not survival instincts) tied a willing Eamon Ryan's hands so that he can't jump into a comfy seat again, to see out his career.

    I am just, like everyone else, responding to posts.


    Every post is a FF or FG bashing.


    Maybe, just maybe, you could explain why SF at this stage have managed to get no parties, zero, to join with them in the hope of forming a government?


  • #1295
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Every post is a FF or FG bashing.


    Maybe, just maybe, you could explain why SF at this stage have managed to get no parties, zero, to join with them in the hope of forming a government?

    Tbf PBP did agreed to join them,but are still lacking numbers then?

    I know its aprils fools day,but try to remain somewhat factual


  • #1296
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    hmmm wrote: »
    He's the Taoiseach of the country during a 100 year pandemic, do you expect him to say nothing to the country?

    SF, FF could be in government tomorrow if they wanted and could be bothered trying. FG have said they are happy to step down and go into opposition.

    And here we go again......FF were interested in going in with SF when the results starting coming out and it appeared at first that FF would be 7 seats ahead of SF, Micheál Martin came out and said as much. However when the results were finalised and SF were only one seat behind FF with a larger voteshare, MM changed tack sent out a couple of gobdaws like Miriam O'Callaghan's brother and Jack Chambers to reestablish the hardline "we're not doing business with Sinn Fein" approach. And that was it, FF instead decided to do a deal with FG who they also said they wouldn't do a deal with prior to the election.

    Remember this;

    https://www.facebook.com/158539504310135/posts/1531997106964361/?vh=e&d=n

    This reality that FFG have decided between themselves to set up a government with a couple of add ons due to the way the numbers have stacked up and despite FG declaring themselves that they had "lost the election" has been outlined numerous times, time and time again. It doesn't matter that posters like you either don't get it or are deliberately ignoring that reality.

    The electorate who are turning away from FFG and have been for decades for various reasons will remember it.


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  • #1297
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Down they aren't in power but there is nothing stopping them forming a left wing government.
    Other than their complete unwillingness to compromise, their track record of inability to work with other parties, and the shadiness of their structure.

    The ball is in SF's court, there is nothing stopping them forming a government if they were willing to make the compromises, and put in the hard work.

    They are hiding the responsibility of being in charge, still sniping from the sidelines and never shy about telling people what they would have done with the benefit of hindsight. Waste of a vote, unless that's what you voted for - meanwhile the adults get on with trying to run the country.


  • #1298
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    And here we go again......FF were interested in going in with SF when the results starting coming out and it appeared at first that FF would be 7 seats ahead of SF, Micheál Martin came out and said as much. However when the results were finalised and SF were only one seat behind FF with a larger voteshare, MM changed tack sent out a couple of gobdaws like Miriam O'Callaghan's brother and Jack Chambers to reestablish the hardline "we're not doing business with Sinn Fein" approach. And that was it, FF instead decided to do a deal with FG who they also said they wouldn't do a deal with prior to the election.

    Remember this;

    https://www.facebook.com/158539504310135/posts/1531997106964361/?vh=e&d=n

    This reality that FFG have decided between themselves to set up a government with a couple of add ons due to the way the numbers have stacked up and despite FG declaring themselves that they had "lost the election" has been outlined numerous times, time and time again. It doesn't matter that posters like you either don't get it or are deliberately ignoring that reality.

    The electorate who are turning away from FFG and have been for decades for various reasons will remember it.

    They actually returned same number of TDs as FF

    The FF td in the 2016s ceann comhairle constituency failed to even reach quota this election and was returned by default



    Its all irrelevant anyway,another election is on the way


  • #1299
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    the hardline "we're not doing business with Sinn Fein" approach.
    No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

    The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.


  • #1300
    rdwight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 595 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Here's something SF can get their teeth into:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/cross-border-workers-denied-covid-19-emergency-benefit-tds-say-1.4217056

    As I understand it, if someone lives in the Free State and works in the Six Occupied Counties then us "down here" fund their Covid payment. SF want us to also pay people who live in the north and work down here.

    Bit asymmetrical, wouldn't you think? However Conor Murphy and Rishi Sunak would be pleased.


  • #1301
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Every post is a FF or FG bashing.


    Maybe, just maybe, you could explain why SF at this stage have managed to get no parties, zero, to join with them in the hope of forming a government?

    See post 1307. Sf needed either FF or FG to form a government.

    FF were willing to go in with SF as long as FF were the senior partner but not on an equal partnership basis. So instead they're going in with FG who said they wanted to go into opposition post election because in their words they "lost the election", but will hold their noses and hold on to the reigns of office and take up Ministerial positions instead - In The National Interest.


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  • #1302
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    hmmm wrote: »
    No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

    The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

    what, lie to their voters like the rest of them? no thanks


  • #1303
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rdwight wrote: »
    Here's something SF can get their teeth into:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/cross-border-workers-denied-covid-19-emergency-benefit-tds-say-1.4217056

    As I understand it, if someone lives in the Free State and works in the Six Occupied Counties then us "down here" fund their Covid payment. SF want us to also pay people who live in the north and work down here.

    Bit asymmetrical, wouldn't you think? However Conor Murphy and Rishi Sunak would be pleased.


    Its hardly unreasonable if someone is paying tax/prsi here to get back,what they put in??


    If they arent paying tax/prsi hard to see any future in this grievence


  • #1304
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    hmmm wrote: »
    No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

    The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

    :pac: Nope. FF and MM were willing to do business with SF if the numbers stacked up that FF would have been the senior partner.


  • #1305
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    hmmm wrote: »
    No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

    The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

    Bull****...they work with SF at every level right across the country and have done for years.
    They think SF are fit for government in the north.

    'Control'. They are petrified to let go of the power swap - that is the problem in this country. Michael Martin was quite happy to open the door to SF when he thought he had the 'controlling' seat numbers on the Sunday after the election.,
    Once that stranglehold is broken then we can actually call ourselves a mature democracy.


  • #1306
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    See post 1307. Sf needed either FF or FG to form a government.

    FF were willing to go in with SF as long as FF were the senior partner but not on an equal partnership basis. So instead they're going in with FG who said they wanted to go into opposition post election because in their words they "lost the election", but will hold their noses and hold on to the reigns of office and take up Ministerial positions instead - In The National Interest.


    Ok, maybe I am tying it wrong....


    I didn't ask about FF and FG who have clear issues with SF. Of all the other parties who have joined with them?


  • #1307
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They actually returned same number of TDs as FF

    The FF td in the 2016s ceann comhairle constituency failed to even reach quota this election and was returned by default



    Its all irrelevant anyway,another election is on the way

    I don't think there will be another election anytime soon. If FFG cobble together a government as seems likely they will stick it out for a full term. They know they are putting themselves in a vulnerable position as it is re their traditional hold on Irish politics by going into government officially together. If they pull the plug early in the lifetime of the next government that would only make things worse.


  • #1308
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    I remember Mary Lou saying after the election a government with either FF or FG would be a disaster.

    Is that not effectively ruling out SF going into power with either of them.

    Or was that another lie?


  • #1309
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Bull****...they work with SF at every level right across the country and have done for years.
    They think SF are fit for government in the north.

    'Control'. They are petrified to let go of the power swap - that is the problem in this country. Michael Martin was quite happy to open the door to SF when he thought he had the 'controlling' seat numbers on the Sunday after the election.,
    Once that stranglehold is broken then we can actually call ourselves a mature democracy.


    Who works with SF right across the country?



    SF have 22% of the vote in North.....hardly a glowing recognition that people think they are fit for government.


  • #1310
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Who works with SF right across the country?



    SF have 22% of the vote in North.....hardly a glowing recognition that people think they are fit for government.

    FG have 20% of the vote here.


  • #1311
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    FG have 20% of the vote here.

    20% Francie? Are you massaging that figure?


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  • #1312
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Ok, maybe I am tying it wrong....


    I didn't ask about FF and FG who have clear issues with SF. Of all the other parties who have joined with them?

    The other parties would have weighed in if FF or FG agreed to a deal with SF. There was no point otherwise.

    Of the other parties I think only Labour were the ones coming out with that old "we won't do business with SF" schtick.

    Anyway the deals been done to suit FF primarily, they will be the senior partner, and there's the quid pro quo that FF backed FG in the Confidence and Supply government. So FG owe them one and FG will also take the gamble that as a "party of government" perhaps they can recover some ground while keeping some of their Ministerial gigs etc.


  • #1313
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    I don't think there will be another election anytime soon. If FFG cobble together a government as seems likely they will stick it out for a full term. They know they are putting themselves in a vulnerable position as it is re their traditional hold on Irish politics by going into government officially together. If they pull the plug early in the lifetime of the next government that would only make things worse.

    They havnt the numbers.....they need 8 to 10 helpers/indo to govern and 12-14 to safely govern


    Their complete arrongance in excluding greens in coalition talks has come back to haunt em


    They've spent last month sneering at the shinners for failing utterly to form a government and now are caught with no pants on as the tide has gone out on em....there is a beautiful irony in all this



    Unless they go for a national government,there will be an election,but both varadkar and martin lack capacity to carry their party,neither are as popular among rank-and-file members that i know,both locally and nationally, as its protrayed...alot of internal strife within FF in particular


  • #1314
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    20% Francie? Are you massaging that figure?

    Apologies...20.9% to be exact.

    SF have 22.8% to be precise in NI.


  • #1315
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    The other parties would have weighed in if FF or FG agreed to a deal with SF. There was no point otherwise.

    Of the other parties I think only Labour were the ones coming out with that old "we won't do business with SF" schtick.

    Anyway the deals been done to suit FF primarily, they will be the senior partner, and there's the quid pro quo that FF backed FG in the Confidence and Supply government. So FG owe them one and FG will also take the gamble that as a "party of government" perhaps they can recover some ground while keeping some of their Ministerial gigs etc.


    Ok, is it that difficult to admit that no party in Ireland wants to work with SF? PBP as far as I am aware said they would if SF bent over backwards and accepted all their terms. SO that would be a no.

    Would that not suggest to people, that the problem is with SF? and not with every other party in Ireland?

    P.S. I know I posted this before, but the SF supporters seem to ignore this minor detail and always revert back to "but but but but FF and FG"


  • #1316
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    FG have 20% of the vote here.

    With that result FG said they would go into opposition because of such a poor result. Yet you are telling us that the North thinks SF are ready for government??


    Something doesn't add up in those two statements, does it?


  • #1317
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Shefwedfan wrote: »




    Would that not suggest to people, that the problem is with SF? and not with every other party in Ireland?

    Not really
    I think no party wants to be first or out on their own for fear of the consequences
    Those being a lashing from their own supporters and other parties
    It's not an easy conundrum


  • #1318
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Not really
    I think no party wants to be first or out on their own for fear of the consequences
    Those being a lashing from their own supporters and other parties
    It's not an easy conundrum


    But Mary Lou was on the TV telling us all that she was talking to them. Greens, PBP, Social De etc etc


  • #1319
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They havnt the numbers.....they need 8 to 10 helpers/indo to govern and 12-14 to safely govern


    Their complete arrongance in excluding greens in coalition talks has come back to haunt em


    They've spent last month sneering at the shinners for failing utterly to form a government and now are caught with no pants on as the tide has gone out on em....there is a beautiful irony in all this



    Unless they go for a national government,there will be an election,but both varadkar and martin lack capacity to carry their party,neither are as popular among rank-and-file members that i know,both locally and nationally, as its protrayed...alot of internal strife within FF in particular
    Yes, FF in particular are in danger of splitting apart. They're not happy campers. You've got guys like O'Cuiv and rural FF members who might prefer a coalition with SF to a coalition with FG and then you've got o'Callaghan and Chambers who are scared of SF because SF will steal their clothes and they're trying to pretend that FF and SF are incompatible. Both factions see the danger of allowing SF to lead the opposition and MM is in an impossible position trying to keep them all happy.

    FF used to be The Republican Party. My old man was member, he'd be turning in his grave God rest him that they're going to go into government with The Blueshirts.

    If they go in with FG and others though as seems likely they'll have to make it work for as long as possible.


  • #1320
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    YEs but have 35 seats....seats count, not first preferences
    So why are you on about percentages?
    With that result FG said they would go into opposition because of such a poor result.
    Well if you adopt the attitude that I have...that FF and FG will speak volumes out of both sides of their mouths at the same time, then you will believe anything they might say.
    Yet you are telling us that the North thinks SF are ready for government??


    Something doesn't add up in those two statements, does it?

    What?
    Where did I say 'the North thinks SF are ready for government'...what are you on about?


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  • #1321
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,747 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Ok, is it that difficult to admit that no party in Ireland wants to work with SF? PBP as far as I am aware said they would if SF bent over backwards and accepted all their terms. SO that would be a no.

    Would that not suggest to people, that the problem is with SF? and not with every other party in Ireland?

    P.S. I know I posted this before, but the SF supporters seem to ignore this minor detail and always revert back to "but but but but FF and FG"

    That's the way you'll spin it but nah, not even FFG fans will actually believe it.


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