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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Pkiernan

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

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FrancieBrady

hmmm wrote: »

No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

Bull****...they work with SF at every level right across the country and have done for years.
They think SF are fit for government in the north.

'Control'. They are petrified to let go of the power swap - that is the problem in this country. Michael Martin was quite happy to open the door to SF when he thought he had the 'controlling' seat numbers on the Sunday after the election.,
Once that stranglehold is broken then we can actually call ourselves a mature democracy.

TheCitizen

hmmm wrote: »

No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

:pac: Nope. FF and MM were willing to do business with SF if the numbers stacked up that FF would have been the senior partner.

[Deleted User]

rdwight wrote: »

Here's something SF can get their teeth into:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/cross-border-workers-denied-covid-19-emergency-benefit-tds-say-1.4217056

As I understand it, if someone lives in the Free State and works in the Six Occupied Counties then us "down here" fund their Covid payment. SF want us to also pay people who live in the north and work down here.

Bit asymmetrical, wouldn't you think? However Conor Murphy and Rishi Sunak would be pleased.

Its hardly unreasonable if someone is paying tax/prsi here to get back,what they put in??

If they arent paying tax/prsi hard to see any future in this grievence

maccored

hmmm wrote: »

No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

what, lie to their voters like the rest of them? no thanks

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Every post is a FF or FG bashing.

Maybe, just maybe, you could explain why SF at this stage have managed to get no parties, zero, to join with them in the hope of forming a government?

See post 1307. Sf needed either FF or FG to form a government.

FF were willing to go in with SF as long as FF were the senior partner but not on an equal partnership basis. So instead they're going in with FG who said they wanted to go into opposition post election because in their words they "lost the election", but will hold their noses and hold on to the reigns of office and take up Ministerial positions instead - In The National Interest.

rdwight

Here's something SF can get their teeth into:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/cross-border-workers-denied-covid-19-emergency-benefit-tds-say-1.4217056

As I understand it, if someone lives in the Free State and works in the Six Occupied Counties then us "down here" fund their Covid payment. SF want us to also pay people who live in the north and work down here.

Bit asymmetrical, wouldn't you think? However Conor Murphy and Rishi Sunak would be pleased.

hmmm

TheCitizen wrote: »

the hardline "we're not doing business with Sinn Fein" approach.

No-one wants to do business with SF, because SF are unwilling to compromise, and have an opaque governance structure where it's not clear who is in charge. Our political system means it is unlikely one party will ever get a majority, so it's time SF grew up and tried to form mature political relationships. Standing on the side throwing stones at everyone is all very well for a small protest party, but it's not going to get you the support you need to get into power.

The blame here is entirely SF's that no-one else wants to do business with them. They know what they have to do.

[Deleted User]

TheCitizen wrote: »

And here we go again......FF were interested in going in with SF when the results starting coming out and it appeared at first that FF would be 7 seats ahead of SF, Micheál Martin came out and said as much. However when the results were finalised and SF were only one seat behind FF with a larger voteshare, MM changed tack sent out a couple of gobdaws like Miriam O'Callaghan's brother and Jack Chambers to reestablish the hardline "we're not doing business with Sinn Fein" approach. And that was it, FF instead decided to do a deal with FG who they also said they wouldn't do a deal with prior to the election.

Remember this;

https://www.facebook.com/158539504310135/posts/1531997106964361/?vh=e&d=n

This reality that FFG have decided between themselves to set up a government with a couple of add ons due to the way the numbers have stacked up and despite FG declaring themselves that they had "lost the election" has been outlined numerous times, time and time again. It doesn't matter that posters like you either don't get it or are deliberately ignoring that reality.

The electorate who are turning away from FFG and have been for decades for various reasons will remember it.

They actually returned same number of TDs as FF

The FF td in the 2016s ceann comhairle constituency failed to even reach quota this election and was returned by default

Its all irrelevant anyway,another election is on the way

hmmm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Down they aren't in power but there is nothing stopping them forming a left wing government.

Other than their complete unwillingness to compromise, their track record of inability to work with other parties, and the shadiness of their structure.

The ball is in SF's court, there is nothing stopping them forming a government if they were willing to make the compromises, and put in the hard work.

They are hiding the responsibility of being in charge, still sniping from the sidelines and never shy about telling people what they would have done with the benefit of hindsight. Waste of a vote, unless that's what you voted for - meanwhile the adults get on with trying to run the country.

TheCitizen

hmmm wrote: »

He's the Taoiseach of the country during a 100 year pandemic, do you expect him to say nothing to the country?

SF, FF could be in government tomorrow if they wanted and could be bothered trying. FG have said they are happy to step down and go into opposition.

And here we go again......FF were interested in going in with SF when the results starting coming out and it appeared at first that FF would be 7 seats ahead of SF, Micheál Martin came out and said as much. However when the results were finalised and SF were only one seat behind FF with a larger voteshare, MM changed tack sent out a couple of gobdaws like Miriam O'Callaghan's brother and Jack Chambers to reestablish the hardline "we're not doing business with Sinn Fein" approach. And that was it, FF instead decided to do a deal with FG who they also said they wouldn't do a deal with prior to the election.

Remember this;

https://www.facebook.com/158539504310135/posts/1531997106964361/?vh=e&d=n

This reality that FFG have decided between themselves to set up a government with a couple of add ons due to the way the numbers have stacked up and despite FG declaring themselves that they had "lost the election" has been outlined numerous times, time and time again. It doesn't matter that posters like you either don't get it or are deliberately ignoring that reality.

The electorate who are turning away from FFG and have been for decades for various reasons will remember it.

[Deleted User]

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Every post is a FF or FG bashing.

Maybe, just maybe, you could explain why SF at this stage have managed to get no parties, zero, to join with them in the hope of forming a government?

Tbf PBP did agreed to join them,but are still lacking numbers then?

I know its aprils fools day,but try to remain somewhat factual

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not particularly focussed on them at all. I predicted they would try to do this long before the crisis. Pretend to be taking the high moral ground but really trying to manipulate things so that they could continue the power swap.

It was all going swimingly until The Greens with an actual conscience (if not survival instincts) tied a willing Eamon Ryan's hands so that he can't jump into a comfy seat again, to see out his career.

I am just, like everyone else, responding to posts.

Every post is a FF or FG bashing.

Maybe, just maybe, you could explain why SF at this stage have managed to get no parties, zero, to join with them in the hope of forming a government?

piplip87

How many meeting has MaryLou had with Independents and the other smaller parties over the last few days. One would think the would be flat out trying to find common ground to keep FFG out of power.

Shefwedfan

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

What is the actual point of SF up the North if they have no power to govern or do anything as we're told????

What do they actually do??

Plenty of information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Assembly

FrancieBrady

Mango Joe wrote: »

exaggerated nonsense claims.

OOP's ---- Freudian slip?

FrancieBrady

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I don’t understand why you are so focused on FF and FG when they account for less than half the seats.

I am not particularly focussed on them at all. I predicted they would try to do this long before the crisis. Pretend to be taking the high moral ground but really trying to manipulate things so that they could continue the power swap.

It was all going swimingly until The Greens with an actual conscience (if not survival instincts) tied a willing Eamon Ryan's hands so that he can't jump into a comfy seat again, to see out his career.

I am just, like everyone else, responding to posts.

Mango Joe

The useless Shinners will be seen nowhere in a crisis, sure what can they offer except lies, exaggerated nonsense claims and their own particularly ignorant brand of foul hot air.

They'll be back for the triumphalism at the end of the Coronavius crisis claiming they bate the kneecaps of anyone that didn't self-isolate and lying through their teeth to anyone thick enough to turn an ear......

HerrKuehn

whoever ends up in government after this will have to make a lot of difficult and unpopular decisions.

[Deleted User]

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah what a waste of time that's turning out to be.

Indeed when all.this corona sh1te is over...its time to push for reunification here....theres no sense having english/unionist letting the cv-19 run riot on our island

Jinglejangle69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Google dhondt goverence

Dunno why anyone in south complain,it was voted into existamce through the gfa

The sdlp and uup also have seats/power in said government afaik

Yeah what a waste of time that's turning out to be.

Once they still get their wage that's all they care about.

[Deleted User]

Seems obvious to me,the whole discussion is pointless here,no stable government is going to be formed after greens decided they arent going to be made dopes of by ff/fg

Anyone thinking a solid government can be formed,is completly and utterly deluded and lacks basic math skills,

i severly doubt varadkar/martin/MLMD are doing anything politically as regards this and have turned their attention to an likely autemn snap election....its a failure of leadership to not plan for obvious future events

Jinglejangle69

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

NI power sharing is not the same as a coalition. Strange that anyone would try to compare the two.

What is the actual point of SF up the North if they have no power to govern or do anything as we're told????

What do they actually do??

Rodney Bathgate

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Well yes they have been voted in up in NI so they should govern like they have been mandated too.

Down they aren't in power but there is nothing stopping them forming a left wing government.

If they manage to do that they have every right and obligation to govern down here.

Just like they do up the north but have ran away from for 3 years.

They are a disgraceful excuse of "Democratic" political party.

NI power sharing is not the same as a coalition. Strange that anyone would try to compare the two.

Rodney Bathgate

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No they aren't and nobody has said that.

Again Rodney, the electorate are not stupid...(if we go into another election campaign FG/FF can refuse to accept this fact at their peril and try the same schemes again) they know that a 'coalition' made up of all those disparate interests will probably not work or survive.

FF/FG are excluding SF by not even trying to discuss a working coalition.

Michael Martin is actually straight-up treating the electorate as fools...by stating HE WOULD NOT go into a coalition with FG and is now seeking to do EXACTLY that. Fine Gael pretending loftily that they would go into opposition rather than lower themselves, when everyone knew they would take any bone that allowed them maintain the power swap, if it was thrown to them.

Sleeveen politics in other words Rodney...it's day is over, they are fooling nobody but apparatchiks that want to be fooled.

I don’t understand why you are so focused on FF and FG when they account for less than half the seats.

Jinglejangle69

Runaways wrote: »

You’re in la la land.

They’ve been on every radio and tv spot we have the past month.

And you bring up a good point.

FG insist SF must tak uo their responsibility and govern in NI

FG also insist SF aren’t fit to govern here

How do you square that circle?

You can’t.

It’s Fine Gael running scared and talking out of their hoops. and we can all see it.

The entire country can see it. It too will backfire.

Well yes they have been voted in up in NI so they should govern like they have been mandated too.

Down here they aren't in power but there is nothing stopping them forming a left wing government.

If they manage to do that they have every right and obligation to govern down here.

Just like they do up the north but have ran away from for 3 years.

They are a disgraceful excuse of "Democratic" political party.

Runaways

[Deleted User] wrote: »

SF walked away in NI and are keeping their heads down here too. It's what they do, it's their stock response when reality intervenes on their "easy options" politics.

You’re in la la land.

They’ve been on every radio and tv spot we have the past month.

And you bring up a good point.

FG insist SF must tak uo their responsibility and govern in NI

FG also insist SF aren’t fit to govern here

How do you square that circle?

You can’t.

It’s Fine Gael running scared and talking out of their hoops. and we can all see it.

The entire country can see it. It too will backfire.

Runaways

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He wanted to walk into opposition....after the election it would have been the best move for FG

Then Mary Lou opened her mouth and everything fell around SF, remember she hasnt managed to get a single party to join her

Now the option is,

1. stand back and let the country fall apart and get the blame.

2. Stand up and help the country, while some idiots will snipe from the sidelines....

3. Stand up and help the country, while sitting down with opposition parties to work out best way forward. All the while knowing if you make the arrangment you are losing your job

Im no fan of Leo, but in reality he has done option 3.

What exactly have Mary Lou and SF done in this process? she off fixing peoples tv licenses?

There is the problem though Shef. Leo spearheaded a sniping campaign against SF rather than telling the electorate what FG have achieved (ehhhh) and what more there is they can do.
Nope. Spent the whole time rattling about FGs biggest threat.
It backfired wildly. I’d thought at the time this is very intentional. Nobody in their right mind would want to be Taoiseach in the incoming disaster and he had far more info available to him than any other party leader about what was coming.

But here we are.

FrancieBrady

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

As I said, the 2 parties you referred to have less than half the seats. They are not stopping PBP/Solidarity/RISE, Greens, Labour, SDs and the independents from forming a coalition with SF.

No they aren't and nobody has said that.

Again Rodney, the electorate are not stupid...(if we go into another election campaign FG/FF can refuse to accept this fact at their peril and try the same schemes again) they know that a 'coalition' made up of all those disparate interests will probably not work or survive.

FF/FG are excluding SF by not even trying to discuss a working coalition.

Michael Martin is actually straight-up treating the electorate as fools...by stating HE WOULD NOT go into a coalition with FG and is now seeking to do EXACTLY that. Fine Gael pretending loftily that they would go into opposition rather than lower themselves, when everyone knew they would take any bone that allowed them maintain the power swap, if it was thrown to them.

Sleeveen politics in other words Rodney...it's day is over, they are fooling nobody but apparatchiks that want to be fooled.

Rodney Bathgate

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF voter who lives 'down here'.

Yes, the intelligent person knows how democracy and coalitions work...how would they not if they were even paying 20% attention to government formation over the last 20 years.

They can see 'exclusion' when it happens too. The 2 main parties petulantly refusing to accept a challenge to their power swap.

They have seen the awkward and contradictory confidence and supply arrangement and now the painful coalescing/merger they are having to do to keep control.
The electorate are not the chums FF and FG have always taken them for...not anymore. That is why their vote share continues to fall and fall - a smarter electorate.

As I said, the 2 parties you referred to have less than half the seats. They are not stopping PBP/Solidarity/RISE, Greens, Labour, SDs and the independents from forming a coalition with SF.

FrancieBrady

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

As a SF member you can be excused for not understanding how democracy works, but down here we let parties decide whether they join a coalition to form a government or not. Any party can choose to join, or not join.

FF and FG have less than half the seats, so there is nothing stopping SF forming a government if as you say FF and FG are the only parties preventing it.

#MaryLooForTaoiseach

SF voter who lives 'down here'.

Yes, the intelligent person knows how democracy and coalitions work...how would they not if they were even paying 20% attention to government formation over the last 20 years.

They can see 'exclusion' when it happens too. The 2 main parties petulantly refusing to accept a challenge to their power swap.

They have seen the awkward and contradictory confidence and supply arrangement and now the painful coalescing/merger they are having to do to keep control.
The electorate are not the chums FF and FG have always taken them for...not anymore. That is why their vote share continues to fall and fall - a smarter electorate.