CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

1641 wrote: »

There was an Italian doctor on the other night who indicated that people (I am not sure if he meant just elderly people) who need ventilation usually require it ongoing for about 2 weeks and even then a high proportion die. So the frontline doctors are faced with the choice of who is more likely to survive if given scarce ventilation.

The Pope points the finger at who is responsible for the shortages and scarcities.

TAX DODGERS

I was very impressed by the article Fabio Fazio wrote for Repubblica on what he is learning in these days”.

What, in particular?

“Various passages, but in general the fact that our behaviour always affects the lives of others. He is right, for example, when he says: ‘It has become evident that those who do not pay taxes do not only commit a felony but also a crime: if there are not enough hospital beds and artificial respirators, it is also their fault’. I was very impressed by this”.

https://www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2020/03/18/news/coronavirus_pope_francis-251572693/

See also :- https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/mar/27/tax-avoiders-coronavirus-bailouts

Manach wrote: »

Historically speaking no. There have been cycles of development were China as in sync with Europe and other times it lagged behind. However it is the Chinese people's ill luck that in this era to have a friable authoritarian government with a veneer of one of the most ill-starred ideologies communism. To believe that mainline China has this virus under control or is acting honestly within this current crisis is not creditable.

Historically speaking yes though :S China has been ahead of Europe for most of the history of civilization. There have been ups and downs but for the most part China was more advanced. The one instance where Europe and East Asia clashed in this time period, the East Asian power obliterated the Europeans. Colonisation and the industrial revolution tipped the balance of power to the West but previous to this the East and its primary power China were the more advanced civilization.

The CCP (an unelected ruling party, I don't like calling them "China" as they do not legitimately represent the people) made a number of huge errors. They didn't learn from the Sars warning and failed to clamp down on wet markets and the sale of bush meat in major cities. Once the outbreak started the initial focus was on containing information rather than the spread of the disease, another huge error. The world will pay for these two grave mistakes. However, just because the CCP messed up at the start, does not invalidate that their subsequent response to the disease has been extremely successful. I don't believe the overall numbers but I believe the trend, the CCP have, at least temporarily, got covid-19 under control. Just because they are an unelected, authoritarian ruling party who failed to mitigate risk and messed up the initial response doesn't mean that they cannot or did not subsequently take accurate and successful measures.

rossie1977 wrote: »

I just walked into town to go to chemist which is about a mile and nothing seems to have changed. I would have expected Gardai to be patrolling but no.

Quieter than usual for Saturday evening but don't see big change compared to last day I left house which was Wednesday

I don't understand, what do you mean nothing has changed? Nothing really should have changed that much apart from obviously no people gathering together.

New Home wrote: »

So no point in treating anyone over 65 for anything, then, because they'd very likely die anyway? Let's make that over 60, should save us some more trouble.

How are you a Moderator?

New Home wrote: »

What would you call what's happening to elderly and frail people, then? Natural selection?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In many ways, triage is natural selection. The virus is killing mostly sick or elderly people. Doctors must decide who has a better chance of survival when there are limited resources. Awful, but that's just how it is. It is not genocide.

Am I right in thinking that you guys are talking about 2 different things?

New Home is talking about elderly people having their ventilators removed in favour of younger patients in Italy/Spain whereas Professor is talking about triaging patients for ICU beds in Ireland?

No wonder ye can't agree.

cameramonkey wrote: »

Can you give us some examples from credible sources that this is the case. In what part of China do you think the virus is out of control?

China makes bloody well sure there is no credible sources. Hence they have banned western journalist from internal travel in the country whilst some have been expelled from the country entirely in recent months after writing critical articles of the situation.

They don't tolerate dissent or a free media.

nimrod86 wrote: »

Anything being made in this country is at best probably 3-6 months away from being used in a final product though, and that's assuming it leaves the factory today. Manufacturing itself takes weeks. I can't understand why a few weeks shutdown to protect staff isn't being done, and we can all pick up where we left off later, but suppose it's not my profit margins on the line...

That is under normal circumstances, Also nobody knows how long the situation will last.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/coronavirus-medtronic-aiming-to-make-500-ventilators-a-week-1.4212085

Kerry25x wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that you guys are talking about 2 different things?

New Home is talking about elderly people having their ventilators removed in favour of younger patients in Italy and Professor is talking about triaging patients for ICU beds in Ireland?

No. I'm saying that what is happening in hospitals that are overwhelmed is triage (as a general principle). It is not genocide (as a general principle and by definition). New Home says it is genocide. It is not.

paleoperson wrote: »

That's artificial selection, not natural selection. It would be natural selection if they all gave them the same chance and the weakest died.

The resources don't exist to do that.

rossie1977 wrote: »

I walked more than 2 miles, not one person stopped or questioned me.

The update about what is and isn't essential travel says that it will be relaxed until 6pm Monday to allow people get affairs in order, that said my cousin was stopped in Dublin city today and there were cars pulled over on the n11 near cabinteely this morning.

rossie1977 wrote: »

The same places that were open Wednesday were open today. Chemist I needed to go doesn't allow you inside they take order just inside door but there was 4-5 women in small space coming in after me so obviously social distancing wasn't being probably adhered to.

I walked more than 2 miles, not one person stopped or questioned me.

Are these places that are open outside of the guidelines? I wouldn't have expected much to have changed if I was out and about today other than people taking more care with regards grouping together.

I think it is going to be rare that people are stopped unless your in a high population dense area. We don't have the police force to have this kind of presence on the streets. We are relying on people showing social obedience to a large degree with the new guidelines. I am sure it will be self policing to some degree in that if areas become a problem other people will report them.

Wife got called today for contact tracing. Work colleague she had shared a taxi with and had meetings with got some symptoms a day later.
was tested after a few days and got the positive test result today 2 weeks later. We weren't advised to self isolate as it's beyond 2 weeks asymptomatic.