CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)OP upd 28/03

Macdarack · 28-03-2020 08:22PM

New Home wrote: »

So no point in treating anyone over 65 for anything, then, because they'd very likely die anyway? Let's make that over 60, should save us some more trouble.

How are you a Moderator?

tobefrank321 · 28-03-2020 08:22PM

@coyote, great work as always.

Kerry25x · 28-03-2020 08:22PM

New Home wrote: »

What would you call what's happening to elderly and frail people, then? Natural selection?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In many ways, triage is natural selection. The virus is killing mostly sick or elderly people. Doctors must decide who has a better chance of survival when there are limited resources. Awful, but that's just how it is. It is not genocide.

Am I right in thinking that you guys are talking about 2 different things?

New Home is talking about elderly people having their ventilators removed in favour of younger patients in Italy/Spain whereas Professor is talking about triaging patients for ICU beds in Ireland?

No wonder ye can't agree.

This is it · 28-03-2020 08:23PM

New Home wrote: »

My point exactly.

Anyway, this Spanish doctor called it a genocide, too, and he's faced with it every single day.

(The video someone else posted the other day was removed from YouTube)

Is the video verified as real?

Where is this happening? I understand the video relates to Madrid but is it happening elsewhere?

Serious questions, not agreeing or disagreeing one way or another.

WhiteMemento9 · 28-03-2020 08:24PM

Macdarack wrote: »

How are you a Moderator?

I+think+your+sarcasm+detector+is+broken+_0cc314f18897b5ea86ad9062efb8ac9e.jpg

Kermit.de.frog · 28-03-2020 08:24PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

Can you give us some examples from credible sources that this is the case. In what part of China do you think the virus is out of control?

China makes bloody well sure there is no credible sources. Hence they have banned western journalist from internal travel in the country whilst some have been expelled from the country entirely in recent months after writing critical articles of the situation.

They don't tolerate dissent or a free media.

igCorcaigh · 28-03-2020 08:25PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

When did we know that? Didn't hear anyone talking about it until January.

Last ten years, there was a lot of talk about pandemic preparedness. Especially since the H5N1 scare.

Ultimanemo · 28-03-2020 08:25PM

nimrod86 wrote: »

Anything being made in this country is at best probably 3-6 months away from being used in a final product though, and that's assuming it leaves the factory today. Manufacturing itself takes weeks. I can't understand why a few weeks shutdown to protect staff isn't being done, and we can all pick up where we left off later, but suppose it's not my profit margins on the line...

That is under normal circumstances, Also nobody knows how long the situation will last.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/coronavirus-medtronic-aiming-to-make-500-ventilators-a-week-1.4212085

rossie1977 · 28-03-2020 08:25PM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

I don't understand, what do you mean nothing has changed? Nothing really should have changed that much apart from obviously no people gathering together.

The same places that were open Wednesday were open today. Chemist I needed to go doesn't allow you inside they take order just inside door but there was 4-5 women in small space coming in after me so obviously social distancing wasn't being probably adhered to.

I walked more than 2 miles, not one person stopped or questioned me.

ifElseThen · 28-03-2020 08:25PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

Can you give us some examples from credible sources that this is the case. In what part of China do you think the virus is out of control?

5000 urns delivered over 2 days to 1 mortuary out of 7 in Wuhan.
Wuhan reported 2500 deaths.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/stacks-of-urns-in-wuhan-prompt-new-questions-of-virus-s-toll

Just Saying · 28-03-2020 08:25PM

expectationlost wrote: »

but you have to reckon most of the deaths occurred in ICU beds so its a lot more new people needing ICU

It's hard to know what constitutes the ICU figure...the belief on this thread is that is is the numbers requiring ICU from the start rather than the number currently in ICU..

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 08:25PM

Kerry25x wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that you guys are talking about 2 different things?

New Home is talking about elderly people having their ventilators removed in favour of younger patients in Italy and Professor is talking about triaging patients for ICU beds in Ireland?

No. I'm saying that what is happening in hospitals that are overwhelmed is triage (as a general principle). It is not genocide (as a general principle and by definition). New Home says it is genocide. It is not.

This is it · 28-03-2020 08:26PM

Macdarack wrote: »

How are you a Moderator?

No need for that.

ACitizenErased · 28-03-2020 08:27PM

Just Saying wrote: »

It's hard to know what constitutes the ICU figure...the belief on this thread is that is is the numbers requiring ICU from the start rather than the number currently in ICU..

It has been confirmed by Richard Chambers that this is true.

28-03-2020 08:27PM

I suppose they're trying to prevent a panic on the nursing homes as well by obfuscating figures. If families think their loved ones are in more danger inside a nursing home they might start taking them home.

paleoperson · 28-03-2020 08:28PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In many ways, triage is natural selection. The virus is killing mostly sick or elderly people. Doctors must decide who has a better chance of survival when there are limited resources. Awful, but that's just how it is. It is not genocide.

That's artificial selection, not natural selection. It would be natural selection if they all gave them the same chance and the weakest died.

paul71 · 28-03-2020 08:30PM

paleoperson wrote: »

That's artificial selection, not natural selection. It would be natural selection if they all gave them the same chance and the weakest died.

The resources don't exist to do that.

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 08:30PM

paleoperson wrote: »

That's artificial selection, not natural selection.

It's mostly natural selection with some human selection. The virus kills old and weak people - that's a form of natural selection. The human element is that lucky doctors get to choose some deaths and some lives.

MonkstownHoop · 28-03-2020 08:30PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

I walked more than 2 miles, not one person stopped or questioned me.

The update about what is and isn't essential travel says that it will be relaxed until 6pm Monday to allow people get affairs in order, that said my cousin was stopped in Dublin city today and there were cars pulled over on the n11 near cabinteely this morning.

sameoldname · 28-03-2020 08:31PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is no enforcement of pretty much anything in Ireland so this can not be a surprise.

It's not only Ireland though

https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1243950623374151681

To be fair, most people in that video are maintaining a decent distance from one another ...with the notable exception of the person actually filming

WhiteMemento9 · 28-03-2020 08:31PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

The same places that were open Wednesday were open today. Chemist I needed to go doesn't allow you inside they take order just inside door but there was 4-5 women in small space coming in after me so obviously social distancing wasn't being probably adhered to.

I walked more than 2 miles, not one person stopped or questioned me.

Are these places that are open outside of the guidelines? I wouldn't have expected much to have changed if I was out and about today other than people taking more care with regards grouping together.

I think it is going to be rare that people are stopped unless your in a high population dense area. We don't have the police force to have this kind of presence on the streets. We are relying on people showing social obedience to a large degree with the new guidelines. I am sure it will be self policing to some degree in that if areas become a problem other people will report them.

cameramonkey · 28-03-2020 08:33PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

China makes bloody well sure there is no credible sources. Hence they have banned western journalist from internal travel in the country whilst some have been expelled from the country entirely in recent months after writing critical articles of the situation.

They don't tolerate dissent or a free media.

I suppose that is a no then.

Why would China be relaxing the lock downs if the virus was not controlled? Why would China be exporting vital medical equipment if the virus was not controlled?
Why would China be letting doctors and nurses travel to other countries to help if the virus was not controlled?
Why would WHO be saying that China's figures are correct if the virus was not controlled?
Why would drug companies be short of patients to test new methods on because of lack of cases if the virus was not controlled?

Why are the hospitals that were build not being used if the virus was not controlled?

Why would China be letting Ireland buy 60 aircraft loads of PPE and other equipment if the virus was not controlled.

Can you give even one example with a credible link to say that the virus is not contained and not controlled?

Tea drinker · 28-03-2020 08:33PM

Wife got called today for contact tracing. Work colleague she had shared a taxi with and had meetings with got some symptoms a day later.
was tested after a few days and got the positive test result today 2 weeks later. We weren't advised to self isolate as it's beyond 2 weeks asymptomatic.

dpat1l · 28-03-2020 08:33PM

Does anyone know why we only have 5 reported recoveries? ie, why are we either not reporting on the recovered cases, or why is it taking us so long to see anybody recover as opposed to dying? How do we have an 88% death rate of closed cases and no information to argue the contrary? Makes for very grim reading and I’d much rather see both sides of this

New Home · 28-03-2020 08:34PM

This is it wrote: »

Is the video verified as real?

Where is this happening? I understand the video relates to Madrid but is it happening elsewhere?

Serious questions, not agreeing or disagreeing one way or another.

All over Spain, all over Italy, all over the US, for instance. There are innumerable videos and letters and tweets and reports of doctors from all over the place reporting the same thing. As a for instance, one Italian doctor who was treating patients without wearing gloves because they had run out died of Covid earlier this month.

IrishStuff09 · 28-03-2020 08:34PM

IrishStuff09 wrote: »

Putting together a page with some online services that have been made free during this whole thing. Might interest some here

https://covid19.shanehastings.eu/giveback/

Further to this, if anyone knows of any other free services and wants to contribute the info - I've made that a bit easier.

https://covid19.shanehastings.eu/giveback/submit/

pjohnson · 28-03-2020 08:34PM

Cumulative ICU is bizarre. Presumably you could subtract a fair number of the deceased from that figure to get the current. Then theres recoveries aswell to remove from that cumulative figure. By purposefully over-reporting it it gives a much bleaker impression of the situation here and suggests we are much closer to filling ICU completely than we actually are.

How can they tell us to focus on an ICU figure that is false? Hope to god we dont but we could easily end up with an ICU figure that far exceeds our ICU capacity when in reality we arent over capacity reporting this way. I dont see the purpose of it....

paul71 · 28-03-2020 08:35PM

dpat1l wrote: »

Does anyone know why we only have 5 reported recoveries? ie, why are we either not reporting on the recovered cases, or why is it taking us so long to see anybody recover as opposed to dying? How do we have an 88% death rate of closed cases and no information to argue the contrary? Makes for very grim reading and I’d much rather see both sides of this

30 days for for this virus to run its course I think.

Scuid Mhór · 28-03-2020 08:36PM

dpat1l wrote: »

Does anyone know why we only have 5 reported recoveries? ie, why are we either not reporting on the recovered cases, or why is it taking us so long to see anybody recover as opposed to dying? How do we have an 88% death rate of closed cases and no information to argue the contrary? Makes for very grim reading and I’d much rather see both sides of this

It takes like four to five weeks to recover completely, and even when you're recovered, they need to test you two or three times to make sure you've recovered from it, so this results in a statistical lag versus the speed of infection/fatality rates. It also means our "fatality" rate is a misnomer - or the ones being used more generally - because no one is comparing them against the "recovered cases" as they are in the future tense.

lawred2 · 28-03-2020 08:36PM

IrishStuff09 wrote: »

Further to this, if anyone knows of any other free services and wants to contribute the info - I've made that a bit easier.

https://covid19.shanehastings.eu/giveback/submit/

Good stuff

CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)OP upd 28/03