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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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Comments

  • #7202
    ihdxwz4a3pem9j
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭ihdxwz4a3pem9j


    The complete restrictions, in my humble opinion, came at the right time. We have only a finite number of Gardaí. We rely on each other to self-govern. The Gardaí are by no means omnipresent. In order to get people to self-govern, there needs to be a sufficient buy-in from the citizens of Ireland. Otherwise, the whole intervention falls flat on its face. Fear incites people to buy-in. Even up until late afternoon on Boards, there were people berating the social restrictions. Could you imagine how defiant people would have been if they tried to completely restrict earlier than they did? And with regard to nursing homes, people would have cited inhumanity at the inability to visit loved-ones. People would have thought that the government was overreacting. They would have found ways to flout the rules. And inevitably as people started to fall sick with CoVID (inevitable, as people will always break rules), people would have dismissed the restrictions as ineffectual.


  • #7203
    Kerry25x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Kerry25x


    expectationlost wrote: »
    but you have to reckon most of the deaths occurred in ICU beds so its a lot more new people needing ICU

    Judging from the median age and speculation that many were nursing home patients then many might not have been in ICU beds, depends on what their ceiling of care was.


  • #7204
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Tough choices are made every day in hospitals around the country well before this CV outbreak. In a lot of cases if the patient has little quality of life at admission, and treatment will not improve that, the patient will be sedated, be under palliative care and will slip away. I know this for a fact, you can choose whether to believe me or not.

    Also nursing homes ask Next of Kin (where resident is not compos mentis) whether family would like resident to be moved to hospital for treatment or to be resuscitated etc. in the event of serious illness a DNR if you like. I know this too.

    That was my mother, god rest her. She had a very peaceful passing at a great age with no beeping interventions and tubes and the like. Bless her, and all those that have passed during this outbreak. You can be assured that they will not have been in distress.

    Plenty of younger people involved in car accidents and other traumas are also removed from Life support i.e. ventilators too. It is no way genocide, it is the right thing to do in a lot of cases, and has been going on since ventilators were invented.

    It is genocide. This is not a matter of deciding what's better for the individual, this is being done due to lack of resources and due to the health services being overwhelmed. I know perfectly well that choices have been made before now, but only during war times, or times of epidemics (and not in Western Europe in recent times) have resources being removed from one patient who might (might, not will) to be given to another who might (might, not will) have a better chance of survival. I'm not talking about palliative care here. You wouldn't see all those doctors and nurses in tears over this, if this had been routine (and I'm not saying they're not sad when somebody dies in normal circumstances).


  • #7205
    ifElseThen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ifElseThen


    smallfryy wrote: »
    So what happens? They're not helped breathe? Do we not even try save them?

    Morphine pain management and sedation most likely.


  • #7206
    893bet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,768 ✭✭✭893bet


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Your grammar is atrocious. You could have said

    " Getting away from us now. Predictable given our one step behind the virus policies over the last month. "

    or

    "Getting away from them now. Predictable given their one step etc etc"

    I respect that you have been hell bent on stirring up shight on this forum. But at least get it right.

    Whose side are you actually on. Ours or theirs? Simple question.

    RIP to all victims.

    User name checks out


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  • #7207
    Macdarack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Macdarack


    425 covid 19 patients here are health workers, that's frightening.


  • #7208
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Agreed , deaths and ICU numbers are a better judge of overall rates I would think as we really quantify them. The numbers of people testing positive are not a good indicator.

    but the virus getting in to nursing homes skews both those figures


  • #7209
    boardise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭boardise


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are they in their own garden?

    Are they busy vecting/vectoring away ?


  • #7210
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,785 ✭✭✭✭josip


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Chances are that all the deaths have been in ICU.

    Perhaps not all in ICU.
    Chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan said most died in institutional settings such as hospitals or nursing homes.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-most-deaths-have-been-in-settings-such-as-hospitals-and-nursing-homes-1.4213354


  • #7211
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,455 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    1540 viewing these threads......wow, just wow......

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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  • #7212
    fjon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭fjon


    Marlow wrote: »
    Updated list on essential services can be found here:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dfeb8f-list-of-essential-service-providers-under-new-public-health-guidelin/

    /M

    Good to get a proper list. Strange that childcare doesn't seem to be included? I would have thought that that would be essential for front line workers with kids?


  • #7213
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,139 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    True, but isn't much comfort if they're only freed up due to deaths.

    Well if your waiting for one, I dont think you would care either way as harsh as it sounds.


  • #7214
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Most of these new death spikes are because it has infiltrated nursing homes, and when these patients present to hospital they are not offered ICU care or ventilators.

    The ICU admission criteria for Ireland is very strict unlike other parts of the world.

    Unfortunately they already draw an arbitrary line across people with co-morbidities, this will be further accentuated now due to ventilator supply being very low.

    What does this mean exactly?

    So if someone has diabetes etc or some other chronic health condition, they're not offered ICU care when they get this thing?

    Or are you referring specifically to elderly people in nursing homes?


  • #7215
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Inquitus wrote: »
    The vaccine only works against bacterial pneumonia, not viral pneumonia, and certainly not COVID-19 related pneumonia.

    The suggestion was that secondary infection with bacterial pneumonia is a killer for covid 19.

    It's the same reason why some of the trials feature antibacterial drugs combined with antibiotics.


  • #7216
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    has it actually been confirmed the two daily spikes here were due to nursing home outbreaks? seems to be a lot of assumption going on here.


  • #7217
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    New Home wrote: »
    It is genocide. This is not a matter of deciding what's better for the individual, this is being done due to lack of resources and due to the health services being overwhelmed. I know perfectly well that choices have been made before now, but only during war times, or times of epidemics (and not in Western Europe in recent times) have resources being removed from one patient who might (might, not will) to be given to another who might (might, not will) have a better chance of survival. I'm not talking about palliative care here. You wouldn't see all those doctors and nurses in tears over this, if this had been routine (and I'm not saying they're not sad when somebody dies in normal circumstances).

    It's many things but it's not genocide. It's triage due to an unexpected pandemic, unprepared health services and sometimes poor political decision making.


  • #7218
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,069 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    True, but isn't much comfort if they're only freed up due to deaths.

    It means unfortunately the same people are being counted twice if the ICU number is cumulative.


  • #7219
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    New Home wrote: »
    It is genocide. This is not a matter of deciding what's better for the individual, this is being done due to lack of resources and due to the health services being overwhelmed. I know perfectly well that choices have been made before now, but only during war times, or times of epidemics (and not in Western Europe in recent times) have resources being removed from one patient who might (might, not will) to be given to another who might (might, not will) have a better chance of survival. I'm not talking about palliative care here. You wouldn't see all those doctors and nurses in tears over this, if this had been routine (and I'm not saying they're not sad when somebody dies in normal circumstances).

    Great. So not only are the front line workers having to put up with a high chance of catching the virus, now they will look forward to a trial in the Hague when it's all over.


  • #7220
    Kerry25x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Kerry25x


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    What does this mean exactly?

    So if someone has diabetes etc or some other chronic health condition, they're not offered ICU care when they get this thing?

    Or are you referring specifically to elderly people in nursing homes?

    It is case by case, the consultant will assess the patient and decide the ceiling of care and resussitation status depending on what he or she believes is best for that patient.

    Really they are predicting outcomes and looking at quality of life instead of prolonging the suffering of someone who has a low chance of recovery.

    I'm just referring to normal circumstances, not specific to Covid19.


  • #7221
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,147 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    awec wrote: »
    So the number of people currently in ICU could be a good bit lower than that figure.

    That answer is still ambiguous, what if all the deaths were never in ICU
    No point giving a cumulative figure - means nothing, just say how many are in ICU now


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  • #7222
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A 2km from home calculator.

    https://2kmfromhome.com/
    privacy alert needs geo location information from your mobile.
    but if you dont mind that, handy or just take out a paper map of your area,old school like!


  • #7223
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    New Home wrote: »
    It is genocide. This is not a matter of deciding what's better for the individual, this is being done due to lack of resources and due to the health services being overwhelmed. I know perfectly well that choices have been made before now, but only during war times, or times of epidemics (and not in Western Europe in recent times) have resources being removed from one patient who might (might, not will) to be given to another who might (might, not will) have a better chance of survival. I'm not talking about palliative care here. You wouldn't see all those doctors and nurses in tears over this, if this had been routine (and I'm not saying they're not sad when somebody dies in normal circumstances).

    Similar choices have been made in every country where the virus is rampant. No country has a ventilator for each and every citizen. Never will.

    My point was that such choices are not new at all, they have been going on forever.


  • #7224
    nimrod86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    Anyone want to take a go at explaining to me how manufacturing of semiconductors is an essential service? Please? Anyone? I work in that industry and cannot understand it myself... Almost feel sick reading it, and the thought that my co-workers are still being expected to go in.


  • #7225
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    New Home wrote: »
    It is genocide... I know perfectly well that choices have been made before now, but only during war times, or times of epidemics (and not in Western Europe in recent times) have resources being removed from one patient who might (might, not will) to be given to another who might (might, not will) have a better chance of survival.

    Resources are always limited in healthcare, and have to be allocated where they will bring the most benefit. When NICE don’t approve an expensive drug in the UK, is that genocide?


  • #7226
    skellig_rocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭skellig_rocks


    FVP3 wrote: »
    I am reading a history of China right now. Not really getting that. Insular yes, feeling superior to the rest of the world, yes but in the sense of not really caring to find out. Japan had that until the mid 19th C.

    All cultures have some of that. It beats invading everywhere to impose capitalism christianity democracy.

    Their society was hierarchical but not more so, and often more meritocratic than, the West. They've had an imperial exam system for 1000 years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination

    Confucianism is a system of government which, while accepting the hierarchy of the elites over the poor ( like everywhere), also depends sacrifice from the rich. Western oligarchies could learn from that.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Few8kJ0zfnY

    Racism in a Chinese laundry detergent advertisement

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-36394917


  • #7227
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    1540 viewing these threads......wow, just wow......

    So what? You get that on any Kermit snow thread on the weather forum.


  • #7228
    ihdxwz4a3pem9j
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭ihdxwz4a3pem9j


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    What does this mean exactly?

    So if someone has diabetes etc or some other chronic health condition, they're not offered ICU care when they get this thing?

    Or are you referring specifically to elderly people in nursing homes?
    This is not true. Each potential ICU candidate will be assessed by a senior ICU doctor. A lot of factors will be considered (e.g. the present illness, any unrelated severe medical conditions, a person's baseline level of functioning, the patient's wishes, etc). The doctor will assess if (s)he thinks that the patient will benefit from the intervention/if the disease-course can be changed. Every patient is considered as an individual. There are no current hard-and-fast rules.

    Ireland does not have particularly stringent ICU admission criteria. Doctors use their many years of training (in Ireland, at least 8, to become a senior ICU doctor), to determine the best course of action for that patient. A doctor would not give a patient a medication that (s)he thought wasn't going to work. Similarly, ICU intervention is given to those who will likely receive benefit from it.


  • #7229
    Hobgoblin11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Anyone want to take a go at explaining to me how manufacturing of semiconductors is an essential service? Please? Anyone? I work in that industry and cannot understand it myself... Almost feel sick reading it, and the thought that my co-workers are still being expected to go in.

    We need to be able to conduct semis, it’s essential

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • #7230
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    froog wrote: »
    has it actually been confirmed the two daily spikes here were due to nursing home outbreaks? seems to be a lot of assumption going on here.
    They explicitly mentioned nursing homes as an area of concern two days running.


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  • #7231
    jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,499 ✭✭✭jarvis


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I went to the chemist this afternoon. Our town Thurles was bright and dry but very cold. Normally on a Saturday at 4.30 it’s very busy and bustling. There were lots and lots of walkers out, both individuals and “couples”. I encountered a mother and a granny with 2 kids walking two dogs but they were the only ones not observing the rules. Apart from that it is a ghost town.

    Why were the mother, grandmother, 2 kids and dogs considered to be rule breaking?

    If they’re the one household then they’re allowed, no? I have two kids and my wife and I will probably go for a walk with them which is fine as far as I know.


This discussion has been closed.
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