Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Spear · 26-03-2020 12:26pm #1

And since the episode and spoilers are out, another thread follows.

I got some fairly mixed feelings on this one.

Some parts of it felt cheap, both in terms of resources and story telling. One gets offed, another gets away scot-free when she just fumes a bit instead of culminating a couple of decades of work. The use of the golem undermines one of the underlying conceits of the series, that of Picards mortality. The Starfleet squadron was just a lot of copy and pasting, and Riker seemed poorly greenscreened into place. And where's that Seven/Raffi thing coming from? That's just randomly shoehorned into two seconds of the final shot.

Agent Coulson · 26-03-2020 1:27pm

So 7 of 9 is now.

I suppose got keep with the times and have LGBTQBorg relationship in every TV show these days.

Overall a disappointing finale for me to what was a very enjoyable series up to then.

Spear · 26-03-2020 2:12pm

That version of Blue Skies played at the end was Isa Briones herself:

ilovesmybrick · 26-03-2020 2:13pm

Yeah, I've been a fan and a defender of the series, but that was a swing and a miss for me.

ilovesmybrick · 26-03-2020 2:38pm

Also, and this really bugged me, was that MASSIVE federation fleet all the same class of ship? Ctrl + V needed to be eased up a bit...

somuj · 26-03-2020 6:49pm

Absolute pile of shyte that episode was. The only thing I liked was the glimpse of the super synths wormhole.

The ridiculous faces Data was pulling too while talking to Picard.

fritzelly · 26-03-2020 8:16pm

Missing some kind of big battle - kinda of big let down after leading up to this the whole season
The clone thing was already hinted at earlier and punched in the face this episode
Good to see Ryker in uniform
Sad ending for Data - got a bit emotional

Sad Professor · 26-03-2020 8:18pm

They saved the worst for last.

Slydice · 26-03-2020 9:02pm

I .. I'm pretty sure there was some kind of episode of something that happened there..

before and after the Data Picard scene.

I'm just gonna take a moment. Phew!

I'll definitely be watching season 2!

Slydice · 26-03-2020 9:04pm

Oh yeah.. Before the Data Picard scene..

I had googled Rikers ship: Zheng He
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

Zheng He[a] (Chinese: 鄭和; 1371 – 1433 or 1435) was a Chinese mariner, explorer, diplomat, fleet admiral, and court eunuch during China's early Ming dynasty.

According to legend, his larger ships carried hundreds of sailors on four decks and were almost twice as long as any wooden ship ever recorded.

Slydice · 26-03-2020 9:05pm

Oh damn though.. that Data Picard scene.

velo.2010 · 26-03-2020 11:10pm

Yeah, the Picard/Data scenes were the only decent thing about the episode and are emblematic of the whole series - some good moments that punctuate mostly poor storytelling and dialogue.

Starfleet and the Federation are only a passing thing in this series so the writers can put their own stamp on the show. Riker's dialogue was shocking even for that character and his association with holding the fort during battles. The woefully CGI'd copy and paste starships were poorly designed - Oh for the days when they built models! I think DS9 had better CGI and actual space battles.

I'll be honest, I was fairly late in seeing that the 'golem' was for Picard - I actually thought Data was coming back in some shape or form. Transferring Picard's mind into an android is an undercut to the show, both in storytelling and Picard's motivations. I wonder what Stewart's thoughts on this were?

Other notes: Is the Borg cube the largest McGuffin in TV/movie history? Done purely for the visual it would seem. Narek, just WTF? Where did he get to in the end? What was his sister doing on the cube? Seven and Raffi? Fine, but at least give us a hint beforehand and not the sudden hand clasping at the very end of the series.

I don't know if I can do season 2. Sure, we'll get Guinan and they'll tease us with some old faces, but the problems will remain with this writing crew. Anyone have an idea of the numbers watching or is that a moot point giving the platform it's viewed on?

Goodshape · 26-03-2020 11:15pm

Mostly rubbish BUT –

Picard and Data! Loved all of that!

Also that Vulcan one died. She was the absolute pits. Glad she fell into one.

And otherwise it wasn't awful... but mostly not great at all. Romulan and Starfleet ships looked bad. Why bother with 100s of each? Some script writer writing cheques the FX department can't cash? Silly looking. Then they all just stood down anyway. Silly looking and pointless. Kinda ruined Riker's wee cameo.

Data scene was great though.

CastorTroy · 26-03-2020 11:21pm

Ah, the age old evil tentacles coming through the portal trick. Basically what happens any time a portal opens to hell or something. But not a Gate. That brings imps.

Wouldn't have minded seeing the reactions from everyone seeing him alive.

So random thing I found is that Leo Varadkar can be linked to this show in a 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon kind of way. Seeing the recap with the one in the museum, I was wondering why she looked familiar. Looked up imdb and turns out I knew her from Teen Wolf. But looking at the pictures on imdb, I see this one

MV5BODI5MTA3NDM0Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMDg4MDk4NTM@._V1_.jpg

MV5BODI5MTA3NDM0Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMDg4MDk4NTM@._V1_.jpg

From the set of Nightflyers.
Sorry, just thought it was a random thing to share.

fritzelly · 26-03-2020 11:53pm

velo.2010 wrote: »

Just a note on those dodgy looking Federation starships on ST Picard. Compare them with a compilation of Enterprise E shots from the TNG movies including the Borg cube battle from First Contact. Yes, I know there is a difference between movies and TV with budgets etc. but the scenes from First Contact are 24 Years old...24 years old! The CGI versions do get a bit ropy by Insurrection and Nemesis, but they still hold up well

The D class will always be my favourite

TheValeyard · 27-03-2020 12:11am

I loved the Picard-Data scene.

I really liked Riker bit.

But there rest was very much meh.

Agree with the previous poster, far too much CTRL+C and CTRL+V

Better not be bridge windows on those ships!!!

Gbear · 27-03-2020 12:34am

I kinda hoped Riker would turn up on the Enterprise E, perhaps having taken it out of semi-mothballed status, but I suppose beyond fan service it wouldn't really have served a point.

It's hardly unreasonable for a ship worth our planet's GDP to have a lifetime longer than a steamboat though.

I felt a bit cheated. I thought Picard dying would've capped it off and made a pretty good send off for a beloved character. If the Data scene was necessary, and I think it was, it could've just been a hyper-compressed bit of time where his consciousness was fleetingly captured by Data's copy in the settlement, before being ushered through the door.

I kinda don't see the purpose of a 2nd season, although I will of course give it a go.

I enjoyed the season as whole.

I think people have a bit of rose-tinted glasses when looking at Trek. There were an awful lot of stinkers in there. A show when taken as an entire body of work can't be compared with individual episodes IMO, or even really one season, and I don't think there's much case to be made that Picard is of drastically lower quality.

Stark · 27-03-2020 12:38am

Poor Picard.

"Well Admiral, we could have downloaded you into a hot younger body and given you superpowers but we figured you wouldn't want that."
"Oh. Yay"

Not sure what was going on with 7 of 9 and Raffi. I think they were just both very drunk. Glad to see Jeri Ryan will be a regular for the second season though.

The_Wanderer · 27-03-2020 1:09am

Hmmm mixed feelings on the finale I think.

Offered so much and failed to deliver the killer punch.

Good points.

- The Data and Picard death scene although the uniform was very ill fitting on Spiner.
- Riker on the bridge of a starship. Although some of the script was pure pants. Weapons Hot for example.

Bad Points:

- Picard as a android (sorry I hate the word synth). Not really gone on that yet.
- The battle scene was a bit meh. As for the starships, they need to bring in Doug Drexler to create some starship beauties for the late 24/early 25th century.
- CGI: 20+ years on from the CGI days of DS9 / VOY, the ones in PIC look cheap. The space visuals in TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT were 100's time better in model and CGI form.

Who was with Data as the program was being terminated?

I wonder what the ragtag crew will get up to for Season 2? I wonder will Seven be part of the crew?

pah · 27-03-2020 1:17am

The good

Data and Picard scenes.
Riker in uniform
Starfleet showing up
7 of 9 acknowledging all her killing was not ok

The bad

Picard the synth
Too many ships
Bringing Riker back in to lead the fleet ahead of any serving Captain or admiral - ridiculous
Giant wormhole beacon universe ending aliens :rolleyes:
Magic fixing tool giving rise to the Picard manoeuvre multiplier :mad:

Riker conversing with O "your treacherous ass" I know the tone of the show is different but this style of language takes me out. It's 21st century talk and doesn't fit.

I'm not sure if it was better or worse than earlier episodes but I enjoyed watching this one a bit more. The good moments had me wishing for what it could have been. Hopefully they will listen to criticism and deliver something better next season.

Episode 7/10
Season 5/10

fritzelly · 27-03-2020 1:20am

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Who was with Data as the program was being terminated?

Picard (or rather a memory of him)

FutureGuy · 27-03-2020 1:23am

If they said season 2 was cancelled, I wouldn’t care.

I just cannot forgive the poor writing, awful acting, non-sensical story and idiotic decision making. One of my cardinal sins in tv/film is to set out a character and then have them act completely opposite. Oh not attacking was absolutely laughable.

There’re were so many things wrong that would have been easier to get right. No registry on any fcuking ship this week. Not one beauty shot of it. Copied and pasted everywhere, 15 years after losing Utopia Planetia. Also, did I hear Narek saying “when our ancestors arrived on Vulcan”

I’m all on for modernising trek but not at the expense of ripping out its heart.

Seven and Raffi. Get the fcuk out of town.

I could be here until 2 am ranting.

It’s a 5/10 series for me.

73bc61lyohr0mu · 27-03-2020 1:30am

I thought the whole season started off OK. Went downhill pretty badly after that. Episode 9 where the synth told us she learned how to mind meld... Utter ****e. This series and discovery makes me realise how unique and beautiful the older trek is. I went back and rewatched a few TNG episodes over the weekend. So so good, especially Yesterdays Enterprise.
Star Trek as I know it finished forever when the credits rolled on Enterprise.
Enterprise is like The shawshank redemption when compared to Discovery and Picard..

EltonJohn69 · 27-03-2020 1:52am

Solid 8.5 for the series

7 and raffi makes sense... considering there was something going on between Janeway and 7

Optimus Prime · 27-03-2020 1:54am

I wanted to love this so much. But it’s not Star Trek. It’s a trek show twisted and bastardised into a modern tv show. It’s so annoying, I really wanted this but no. Would have been better if left to my imagination of what could have happened to these characters.

pah · 27-03-2020 2:00am

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Solid 8.5 for the series

7 and raffi makes sense... considering there was something on between Janeway and 7

Considering some of the greatest shows ever made would still only get a 9/10 I would strongly disagree.

7 and Raffi makes no sense. Did they even look at each other twice in earlier episodes?

Samuel T. Cogley · 27-03-2020 2:50am

The Ikea lights did it for me.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172011029047

Xertz · 27-03-2020 6:36am

Quite likely won’t be a season 2 due to coronavirus. Television drama production has had to cease.

It could easily be 2021

27-03-2020 9:17am

I quite enjoyed that as a finish up.

Cookie_Monster · 27-03-2020 9:22am

Optimus Prime wrote: »

I wanted to love this so much. But it’s not Star Trek. It’s a trek show twisted and bastardised into a modern tv show. It’s so annoying, I really wanted this but no. Would have been better if left to my imagination of what could have happened to these characters.

This, so much. It's not star trek, just trek characters forced into some modern edgy show pretenting.

Are the ships supposed to be odysseys?, pretty similar looking but terrible angles of view all around.

pah · 27-03-2020 10:32am

I really dislike the way the ships go to warp and drop out of warp without any build up or slow down.

Again I know it's a different style of show but it's at odds with most other Trek series

AMKC · 27-03-2020 1:16pm

I enjoyed that better than episode 9. Maybe there was some parts that were not great mostly in the first 25 minutes but after that it got much better and this time I liked the flower weapons they actually looked well done compared to the last episode where they somehow magically took down both the La Sirena and a Borg Cube without a shot being fired.

I thought the Seven V Nareks sister fight was kind of just squeezed in and did not really add anything to this episode but yes she got what was coming to her and it was cool when Seven said that's for Hugh.

The part I really did not like do was oh look a magic tool that makes anything you want all you have to do is think of it lol. Also the engine room if you can even call it that on the La Sirena is crap and so is his warp core. Its more like something from Stargate all it was missing was crystals when the drawer came out.

It was cool to see Riker in Uniform again and as Captain but do agree is dialogue was terrible and yes more quality and less quantity with the ships would have been so much better. Still it was nice to see some Starfleet ships that looked like Starfleet ships even if the CGI was terrible. I enjoyed that better than episode 9. Maybe there was some parts that were not great mostly in the first 25 minutes but after that it got much better and this time I liked the flower weapons they actually looked well done compared to the last episode where they somehow magically took down both the Le Serenta and a Borg Cube without a shot being fired.

The part I really did not like do was oh look a magic tool that makes anything you want all you have to do is think of it lol. Also the engine room if you can even call it that on the Le Serenta is crap and so is his warp core. Its more like something from Stargate all it was missing was crystals when the drawer came out.

It was cool to see Riker in Uniform again and as Captain but yes more quality and less quantity with the ships would have been so much better. Still it was nice to see some Starfleet ships that looked like Starfleet ships even if the CGI was terrible.

I do not see do how Picard is supposed to have sacrificed himself for Soji and the other Androids/synths if he was going to die anyway. I do think they should have just maybe let him die but bringing him back in the Golum is just an easy work around to get rid of what he had that killed him I suppose.

The Picard Data scene was lovely do and I should have watched ''Nemesis'' before it really wish I had.

AMKC · 27-03-2020 1:43pm

fritzelly wrote: »

The D class will always be my favourite

Xertz wrote: »

Quite likely won’t be a season 2 due to coronavirus. Television drama production has had to cease.

It could easily be 2021

I would say 2022 myself. America is higher than China now for the amount of people that have it and not far behind Spain and Italy for the amount of people dying from it unfortunately and there President really does not have a clue. If anything good can come from this in America hopefully it will be that the Americans see how so far out of his depth there current President is that they might whenever they do eventually get to the poles elect a proper President that has an idea and is willing to learn, who has some empathy and morals unlike there current one. I really think that there current one is an Android. He might as well be because he has about as much feeling as Lore without the emotion chip.

The D class will always be my favourite

There is no D Class. The Enterprise D if that is what you mean was a Galaxy Class ship.

velo.2010 · 27-03-2020 3:09pm

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Solid 8.5 for the series

7 and raffi makes sense... considering there was something going on between Janeway and 7

The only thing going on between Seven and Janeway, for much of the series, was animosity. And that goes for Jeri Ryan and Kate Mulgrew in real life too.

Thargor · 27-03-2020 3:20pm

So everyone is immortal now and can live forever through brain swapping into new superhuman robot bodies? That's now canon? What an utter heap of sh1t. I started out with such high hopes but they steadily dipped with each episode, turning into pure hatred around the time of those hologram adverts/Legolas showing up. The finale was the worst of all.

You just have to accept Star Trek is dead and they'll never make a proper film or series again, theres nobody left in Hollywood who gets it, they'll just keep flogging the corpse and churning out hideous crap like this. Surprised there wasnt a transexual or a Donald Trump character shoehorned in somewhere.

All you can do is rewatch TNG/DS9 and VOY every few years, a true golden age. Turn on any random episode of TNG and see scenes like this that if you gave JJ Abrams and the Picard team 10 years and $10 billion and they wouldn't be able to come close:

GreeBo · 27-03-2020 3:27pm

"did you Fúck any of them"

/me out.

FutureGuy · 27-03-2020 3:32pm

Question.

Does Picard love Data?

OR

Does Picard actually love LOVE Data?

velo.2010 · 27-03-2020 4:00pm

Just thinking of it now. The universe is in great peril and barely survives being annihilated by a great inter-dimensional threat, and Starfleet just heads off and leaves Picard to it. Nobody hangs back to see whats going on or file a report? Then we hear, out of nowhere, that the ban on synths has been lifted with no fanfare or discourse. Nonsensical given the emphasis placed on the synths story line and the importance of finding that planet.

Spear · 27-03-2020 4:07pm

velo.2010 wrote: »

Just thinking of it now. The universe is in great peril and barely survives being annihilated by a great inter-dimensional threat, and Starfleet just heads off and leaves Picard to it. Nobody hangs back to see whats going on or file a report? Then we hear, out of nowhere, that the ban on synths has been lifted with no fanfare or discourse. Nonsensical given the emphasis placed on the synths story line and the importance of finding that planet.

The pacing of the entire season was all over the place. It had a ponderous and wasteful approach on some things, and badly rushed other things. It would have benefited greatly from a more aggressive editor.

FutureGuy · 27-03-2020 4:28pm

Zhat Vash soldiers: Use personal transporters to fight Dajh
Narissa: Use personal transporter to escape XB's
Also Narissa: Aiiieeeeee I am falling down the Borg cube shaft. Goodbye world.

helimachoptor · 27-03-2020 4:32pm

Poor episode overall.

the copy/paste of the STO quality looking ships was ****ing awful.
Like at least have a varied fleet lads.

The resurrection of Picard I wasn't happy with, would prefer him to last until Season 2 and then die.

The left field lesbians, like where did that come from. Not even a mention of poor Chakotay.

A Finish guy made a fan movie a few years ago which was Starfleet Vs Babylon 5, basically that was higher quality than Riker sitting on the bridge.
Also he retired as an Admiral, you don't come back as a lesser rank.

But the scene with Picard/Data pulled on the heart strings, amazing but.. where the **** was Geordi????

Stark · 27-03-2020 4:36pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

But the scene with Picard/Data pulled on the heart strings, amazing but.. where the **** was Geordi????

He was busy with Hugh's afterlife dream.

Xertz · 27-03-2020 4:42pm

Also, seriously .. what's with this terrible fear of immortality they all seem to have. It would be great! One less thing to worry about.

Human or machine, who want's to age?

It would seem to me that Data had the one thing that humans have dreamt of for millennia, yet just threw it all away to be more human.

Never understood that line of thinking.

Likewise one could easily imagine TNG Picard just going for life immortality at a dignified looking 50-60 and spending millennia exploring the universe. He wouldn't' have traded it for a few years for no reason if he didn't have to. I mean the guy had a to of very time consuming hobbies, like archaeology, to be getting on with!

Goodshape · 27-03-2020 4:48pm

Never has a fleet of starships looked so bland and boring.

Which one of these is Riker supposed to be on, leading the fleet? They don't even seem to have names or registries.

And why 100s of these things anyway. They could have had 3 or 4 ships on each side, given them a bit of character and filmed them properly, and it would have felt just as threatening, if not more-so. These things might as well be shuttle-crafts for all we know.

Xertz · 27-03-2020 4:57pm

I would suspect the reason they 'zipped' out of shot so quickly is they didn't spend a huge budget doing CGI to get them all sophisticated looking.

Bobtheman · 27-03-2020 5:03pm

Thargor wrote: »

So everyone is immortal now and can live forever through brain swapping into new superhuman robot bodies? That's now canon? What an utter heap of sh1t. I started out with such high hopes but they steadily dipped with each episode, turning into pure hatred around the time of those hologram adverts/Legolas showing up. The finale was the worst of all.

You just have to accept Star Trek is dead and they'll never make a proper film or series again, theres nobody left in Hollywood who gets it, they'll just keep flogging the corpse and churning out hideous crap like this. Surprised there wasnt a transexual or a Donald Trump character shoehorned in somewhere.

All you can do is rewatch TNG/DS9 and VOY every few years, a true golden age. Turn on any random episode of TNG and see scenes like this that if you gave JJ Abrams and the Picard team 10 years and $10 billion and they wouldn't be able to come close:

We all have a tendency to think things were better in the past. TNG was a great series I would agree . So was DS9 but Voyager ?? Really . Sure it had some great episodes but some really boring characters.
Trek had to evolve somewhat. The next generation was different from the original . I think Picard is more trek than Discovery because PICARD is more positive. The federation got it's moral act together. Picard found a new purpose etc

GreeBo · 27-03-2020 5:04pm

One more question from me....why is Theon Greyjoy in space ?

I was somewhat ok with him just looking like him, but now his character redemption arc is the exact same...with a bit of space lanisters thrown in.

Bobtheman · 27-03-2020 5:04pm

Im a bit confused about DATA. Where was his consciousness all this time? Why did he want to die?

Evade · 27-03-2020 5:36pm

What was the point of this series? It's such a disjointed mess of go nowhere padding plots for something that's supposed to be a continuous story.

Picard's "death" might have had a little more weight if we didn't know a second series was on the way. Data's death wish doesn't make much sense when he could have been downloaded into a Picard style body with a finite lifespan. And on that why didn't they put him in a new body before the series since they already had his mind?

It's nice to see there's seemingly no consequences for anything. Jurati gets off for murdering Maddox, Oh was exposed as a spy and led an invasion fleet into Federation space and was just asked to leave. The synth ban was overturned somehow, I'm sure that was a popular move in the Federation this series showed.

The Seven and Raffi thing makes Rios and Jurati look like a whirlwind romance. I suspect that shot will be cut from some regions.

Why does Soji insist the synths aren't organic? Dahj definitely looked like she was when she was being vapourised and that eye looked like an eye.

There's definitely a good story to be told with some of the elements they tried to bring up but this isn't it.

Bobtheman · 27-03-2020 6:56pm

Evade wrote: »

What was the point of this series? It's such a disjointed mess of go nowhere padding plots for something that's supposed to be a continuous story.

Picard's "death" might have had a little more weight if we didn't know a second series was on the way. Data's death wish doesn't make much sense when he could have been downloaded into a Picard style body with a finite lifespan. And on that why didn't they put him in a new body before the series since they already had his mind?

It's nice to see there's seemingly no consequences for anything. Jurati gets off for murdering Maddox, Oh was exposed as a spy and led an invasion fleet into Federation space and was just asked to leave. The synth ban was overturned somehow, I'm sure that was a popular move in the Federation this series showed.

The Seven and Raffi thing makes Rios and Jurati look like a whirlwind romance. I suspect that shot will be cut from some regions.

Why does Soji insist the synths aren't organic? Dahj definitely looked like she was when she was being vapourised and that eye looked like an eye.

There's definitely a good story to be told with some of the elements they tried to bring up but this isn't it.

I agree with you on Picards death and the series was somewhat disjointed. I am confused why DATA wanted to die?He wasnt even Picard's age? But overall it worked for me. I enjoyed it-plot holes and all.

27-03-2020 7:03pm

Looking back on the whole I’ll give the series a 7 and I was expecting a 6.

Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]