Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

FGR

FutureGuy wrote: »

Zhat Vash soldiers: Use personal transporters to fight Dajh
Narissa: Use personal transporter to escape XB's
Also Narissa: Aiiieeeeee I am falling down the Borg cube shaft. Goodbye world.

I think they've left this open intentionally for Season 2 - either she did escape or Narek will now come after Picard and co for revenge after he learns of his sister's demise. So that's the sub plot already sorted.

Despite what I'm going to say I overall enjoyed this show - granted I didn't like the Golum bit, nor did I like the Copy and Page Starships. Have they lost the original digital files for the ships used in late DS9/VOY/Movies? I ask as there's already canon for TOS ships being used in the TNG era. The scene would have been so much better had they put in one or two Galaxy/Defiant/Sovereign class amongst the fleet. Even an Excelsior! The Romulans could have used a D'deridex or two as well. Would have been a sweet touch as despite their age they were large, powerful ships.

Hell - it's been shown that one starship can do a hell of a lot of damage to a planet - why not have had 5 v 5 ships instead of the copy and paste job? That would have made it all the better imo.

And as already has been said - the CGI models of the ships from previous series also looked better.

They could have also put Riker on the bridge of a re-dressed Discovery too..would have been better than what we did see.

Again I'm still glad we have this show as, poor writing aside - we're finally advancing ST and no longer in the world of prequels. I didn't like Enterprise for that reason and I'm still dodgy about Discovery with it.

Often wonder what could have been had Scott Bakula's crew been in a post Dominion War ST. Same with Disco.

Roll on Season 2 and that hopefully some lessons may be learned.

Now that I think about it - what happened the Borg cube and the xB's that Seven claimed she cared about? Did she just leave them there? I thought the borg ship would have a far more important role in all of this. And also - if the beacon had summoned this incredibly advanced race - why does it matter that they closed the wormhole - now that they've been alerted to what's going on are they not simply going to create the wormhole themselves and begin the destruction of civilisation?

And..

Evade wrote: »

It's nice to see there's seemingly no consequences for anything. Jurati gets off for murdering Maddox, Oh was exposed as a spy and led an invasion fleet into Federation space and was just asked to leave. The synth ban was overturned somehow, I'm sure that was a popular move in the Federation this series showed.

Agreed! Jurati still openly chose to kill Maddox and, judging from what had been said, would still be guilty of a crime perhaps by loss of reason/insanity of the like. That can't be tolerated especially by Picard; a man who believes you should face consequences for your actions.

As for Oh making her sudden evil appearance as commander of the romulant fleet I agree with other posters - why on Earth would she have sacrificed her high ranking position in star fleet for this when so many more instances of AI could arise. Also - Oh can't be the leader of the Tal Shiar while double jobbing. Where is the real leader?

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

The knock off was actually very good and it aired on Fox.

The Orville

And if it were called Star Trek: Orville it wouldn't have made it through half a season

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And if it were called Star Trek: Orville it wouldn't have made it through half a season

Well that's just because you cant please a certain percentage of Trek fans. Let's be honest Orville had some brilliant episodes dealing with controversial issues.

Anything bearing the Star Trek name needs to be perfect or it’s terrible. Even though none of the older series were near perfect.

pixelburp

I kinda feel sorry for Seth MacFarlane, which I don't say lightly. He clearly loves Star Trek, enough to make a carbon copy of TNG era Trek - flat 80s direction n all - yet his show has ended up a convenient rod to beat official Trek with. I can't imagine he ever wanted to be used as ammunition in a Fan Schism. Or maybe he hates new Trek with a passion himself, who knows

GSPfan

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Anything bearing the Star Trek name needs to be perfect or it’s terrible. Even though none of the older series were near perfect.

Deep Space Nine is as close to perfect as you get. Some silly episodes in the early seasons but good god those Dominion War seasons are my favourite Trek ever. I’m currently rewatching it as it’s on tv twice a day.

Greyjoy

It had the ingredients for a good finale but was hamstrung by how much time they wasted in the preceding episodes. As Mrs Greyjoy pointed out - that was a 5 episode mini-series stretched out into a 10 episode season. Consequently plot threads were either rushed through without dwelling on them (lifting the synth ban, the jadh vast just...leave) or just dropped entirely (everyone's now ok with the fact that Agnes murdered Maddox?). The scene between Picard & Data was genuinely emotional but a highlight in otherwise disappointing episode. I'd echo previous comments about the laziness of both the Starfleet armada and Picard's cop-out resurrection (if Picard is essentially unchanged by coming back to life what's the point?). The Borg cube also felt utterly redundant to the climax and the character of Alton Soong felt a bit pointless other than giving Brent Spiner something to do without having to get into makeup (his character also annoys me on a story level as it feels like he undermines Data & Lore as being Soong's "children"). The 'beacon' and evil super-synths felt even more like a rip of from Mass Effect videogame.

On the plus side perhaps with all this setup out of the way in S1 they can tell a more interesting storyline in S2.

Blazer

christ it went downhill badly. Worse than Discovery and by christ I hated discovery with a passion..
Think I'll just rewatch TNG and DS9. I always pretend Voyager never existed.

AMKC

Blazer wrote: »

christ it went downhill badly. Worse than Discovery and by christ I hated discovery with a passion..
Think I'll just rewatch TNG and DS9. I always pretend Voyager never existed.

What About Enterprise? Yes some of the acting and character development was not great but there ws some good stories in it and I think it has aged well too. Just it never got a 5th and 6th season that would have been great and a proper ending.

opus

Series was ok but but underwhelmed by the way it finished, way too much blubbering going on, they need to man up a bit! As for transferring dead Picard's mind into a robot body, I believe the term is 'jumping the shark'?

I've found a new Scandi crime drama to watch next, no doubt it will be grim reality!

Rawr

opus wrote: »

As for transferring dead Picard's mind into a robot body, I believe the term is 'jumping the shark'?

I felt that kind of stole from this show the very thing that would have given it some gravity.

From implications at the beginning, and simply from Steward's age, it appeared that this show would be Picard's swan-song. He'd die, possibly heroically before the illness got him.

Sure enough he died, and you could argue that the real Picard actually did die, and Robo-Picard is just a copy of his brain, but they didn't kill off the character, instead they let him continue. This stole an ending that might have rounded off the story of Jean Luc Picard. Instead they chickened out and dared not take responsibility for killing off the main attraction for their new series.

Also. his sacrifice lacked any real buildup or impact. They could have shown him progressively getting more ill, and filled with pain over the episodes so that his final death would have seemed more natural. Also, convincing the androids by paying them "with his life", did not come across well. It all seemed so disjointed and thrown together. It was not enjoyable and the stakes at play seemed pointless.

Also, were those robot claws the same ones we saw briefly in Discovery? Are the big bad super-robots some how connected with Control? Not sure I like that idea

There were some excellent episodes in Voyager.

Rawr

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

There were some excellent episodes in Voyager.

Some were really good, but some were also Fairhaven

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

Some were really good, but some were also Fairhaven

I'd take a Fairhaven over a Space Pimp Heist Movie.

moonlighting_1

moonlighting_1 wrote: »

What was the deal with Picard saying he loved Data.
It sounded kinda gay.
Two good friends don't say that kinda stuff to each other.
Was it meant in a gay way. Genuine question folks.

Actually two good friends might say it. It wasn't meant to be gay. Not everything nowadays is lgbtq+

I enjoyed that episode more than the previous 9 put together.

There's a ton of things I'd have done very differently though.

Instead of a magic wand La Sirena could have been fixed by ex-borg nanites.

I was expecting the borg cube in the final battle with the fleet arriving in the nick of time.

Riker was a captain (retired) he should have been acting Admiral if he was in the Flagship.

Once again, the episode drew out pointless scenes, and the action was squeezed in.

Lots of references to Picard being transferred into an Android body. Synths aren't androids like data. In the episode with Riker, his daughter asked various questions which established this. Synths are organic. In TNG, Data would pop open a control panel on his head and there'd be LED lights and circuitry.

If anything he's a clone of himself with his own memories.

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of references to Picard being transferred into an Android body. Synths aren't androids like data. In the episode with Riker, his daughter asked various questions which established this. Synths are organic. In TNG, Data would pop open a control panel on his head and there'd be LED lights and circuitry.

If anything he's a clone of himself with his own memories.

While I don't really disagree the whole synth/android/organic thing is very muddy. They are describe as basically being enhanced humanoids, which itself opens a whole new Khan can of worms, but they also thought they'd be spared by tech elder gods scouring all organic life in the Galaxy.

Stark

The synths that were deployed to Mars where essentially Data type bodies but with bio-neural circuitry instead of positronic brains. (According to the novel). Since then Maddox managed to recreate positronic brains while obviously iteratively improving the bodies until they were indistinguishable from humans. It doesn't seem very clear whether the bodies are fully organic or simply very convincing (ala Julianna Trainer)

Minime2.5

Evade wrote: »

Tom Hardy could always play a younger Picard again.

Theres no way they could afford him now

Minime2.5

Id like to know where the Enterprise is or what became of it. Hasnt it.always been the flag.ship

Goodshape

Tom Hardy bulked up too much since Nemisis. And I thought he was a totally unconvincing Picard back then anyway.

James McAvoy would be a much a better choice – and he did even, maybe jokingly, express an interest back when all this was just beginning. When Picard "died" in this episode and it started to become apparent they were going to give him a new body – I did allow myself just a moment of hope that he'd wake up as McAvoy for Season 2. That they gave him the same old broken down body again is more than a bit ridiculous tbh.


Overall though – I did really enjoy this series! As a fan I liked seeing the old stuff again, and most of the new stuff was fine too. A much better show than Discovery, if we need to compare. Not perfect. Even disapointing in a few places. But I really enjoyed it.

Spear

Minime2.5 wrote: »

Id like to know where the Enterprise is or what became of it. Hasnt it.always been the flag.ship

It's the Enterprise-F, an Odyssey class, under Captain Worf, according to the books accompanying the series.

pixelburp

Another thing the finale made me go "hmmm" about. Notwithstanding the superficial attempt at epic scale with the 100s of ships, I really wish Trek pulled more from the parallel storytelling of submarine warfare. Just have 2 ships, squaring off. Give them a sense of scale, heft and danger of one gets the drop on the other. But no, must have lasers explosions kabooooomm....

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

Well that's just because you cant please a certain percentage of Trek fans. Let's be honest Orville had some brilliant episodes dealing with controversial issues.

It does and I really like it but the fawning over it as "real" Trek is wholly disingenuous, it would be ripped to **** by those same fans if it were official

Rawr

Spear wrote: »

It's the Enterprise-F, an Odyssey class, under Captain Worf, according to the books accompanying the series.

Damn! Where's that show?!! I'd love to watch a show about that.

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

Damn! Where's that show?!! I'd love to watch a show about that.

I wouldn't want to be a goldshirt on that ship.

Ops Officer: Captain, there's a 99% chance we can rescue the away team and complete the mission.
Worf: Hmm... *thinks back to Change of Heart* Too risky, procede with the mission. Add the away team's names to the weekly memorial.

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

I wouldn't want to be a goldshirt on that ship.

Ops Officer: Captain, there's a 99% chance we can rescue the away team and complete the mission.
Worf: Hmm... *thinks back to Change of Heart* Too risky, procede with the mission. Add the away team's names to the weekly memorial.

Crewman: Cpt Worf. The Terrelian Ship would like to signal their in intention to begin peace talks.

Cpt. Worf: Prepare for Ramming Speed!

Crewman: What?!!

AllForIt

Okay, my take.

I loved the scene with Picard and Data.

"A butterfly that lives forever is not a butterfly at all". Mortality vs immortality.

Does anyone know the background song in that scene, it was beautiful. I don't know it.


What I was disappointed about in the series is I thought from episode 1, Commodore Oh had the potential to be a great character and would play a more prominent role in the series. In the season finale all I got was her staring at the ships view screen with a single line.

From the very beginning this series was about bringing Data back, they brought him back, but for such short a time. As good a final scene it was with Data, I would have preferred he played a role in series 2. Maybe Spiner doesn't want to.

I really don't see where the series can go from here.

Rawr

AllForIt wrote: »

What I was disappointed about in the series is I thought from episode 1, Commodore Oh had the potential to be a great character and would play a more prominent role in the series. In the season finale all I got was her staring at the ships view screen with a single line.

Yea, that was a bit off. She was sort of just standing alone, suddenly in Romulan uniform and in a silly cartoon-villianess moment declares to the audience.
"Now our (evil) plan will be completed!"

All she was missing was the evil laugh.

It really does feel like they missed a trick there. She would have spent so many years becoming a Starfleet Flag Officer, so why not have her head a Starfleet armada. Then we could have some moral conflict with some of the Starfleet folk not wanting to follow her orders and attack the planet. Captain Riker could have been the catalyst for that etc....

Loads of potential, pissed away needlessly.

TheValeyard

I'm really shocked no Q at the end.

Rawr

TheValeyard wrote: »

I'm really shocked no Q at the end.

I was surprised too. There were rumors that he'd turn up.
After Picard dies and turns up in that lounge I got really excited. I fully expected Q to turn up and be all:

Q: Jean-Luc! Mon Capt-i-tain...so here we are at last.

Picard: Q! Are you somehow behind all of this?!

Q: Behind what? The unravelling of your ever so limited mortal coil? Come now Jean-Luc, must you also blame me for the way your species leave this universe? I am hurt that you think this.

Picard: So, I *am* dead?

Q: If you wish to call that, then fine...you are "dead". Lets make it easy on your human sensibilities.

(Doors open, with light beyond.)

Picard: What is that?

Q: Well....you were quite good that this "exploration" thing you enjoyed so much, with that bizarre attraction your species has to the "unknown".

Picard: Where does that door lead to?

Q: Ah.....what fun would it be if I simply told you? See you around Jean-Luc. (Snaps finger and disappears).

Picard walks through door, and disappears. End credits...

TheValeyard

Rawr wrote: »

I was surprised too. There were rumors that he'd turn up.
After Picard dies and turns up in that lounge I got really excited. I fully expected Q to turn up and be all:

Q: Jean-Luc! Mon Capt-i-tain...so here we are at last.

Picard: Q! Are you somehow behind all of this?!

Q: Behind what? The unravelling of your ever so limited mortal coil? Come now Jean-Luc, must you also blame me for the way your species leave this universe? I am hurt that you think this.

Picard: So, I *am* dead?

Q: If you wish to call that, then fine...you are "dead". Lets make it easy on your human sensibilities.

(Doors open, with light beyond.)

Picard: What is that?

Q: Well....you were quite good that this "exploration" thing you enjoyed so much, with that bizarre attraction your species has to the "unknown".

Picard: Where does that door lead to?

Q: Ah.....what fun would it be if I simply told you? See you around Jean-Luc. (Snaps finger and disappears).

Picard walks through door, and disappears. End credits...

I'd actually be happy with that ending.

FutureGuy

Spear wrote: »

It's the Enterprise-F, an Odyssey class, under Captain Worf, according to the books accompanying the series.

Correct me if I am wrong but he is captain of the E in that book?

AtomicHorror

My bad points.

I didn't like the Federation fleet. The ships were lumpy and duplicated far too much. I have read that there are in fact 4 distinct classes of ships visible on screen, but someone will have to do some forensic-level screen capping to verify that because you really can't tell. They need to hire a new designer, because none of the ship designs in Picard really worked.

The fact that Oh spent most of the episode repeatedly asking her fleet of 200 ships to target one medium sized office building... and then being distracted each time... that was tiresome.

"Target the build-" Space Flowers
"Ok, now targe-" La Sirena
"Ignore THAT and targ-" La Sirena x 1000
"OK NOW JUST TAR-" Federation fleet
"OH FOR F-" Contractual clause 5, subsection 2

Just push the button Oh.

Space Cersei. If she's actually dead, then this is a good thing. But she has a personal transporter, so maybe not. My hope is that with the Cube damaged and no Romulan ship in range, that she just went splat.

"Acting" Captain Riker. Don't sell yourself short, Will. In front of the Romulans, just say "Captain".

Spear

FutureGuy wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but he is captain of the E in that book?

No, you're correct, in the book Last, Best Hope he was made temporary first officer, then captain of the E after Picard left it to become an admiral.

Stark

Don't think the Enterprise-F gets a mention anywhere, not sure if it's considered canon. (Although the Odyssey class seems to have been made canon).

TheValeyard

Well Eaglemoss will be pissed. Very few new ships for them to try and sell!

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I didn't like the Federation fleet. The ships were lumpy and duplicated far too much. I have read that there are in fact 4 distinct classes of ships visible on screen, but someone will have to do some forensic-level screen capping to verify that because you really can't tell. They need to hire a new designer, because none of the ship designs in Picard really worked.

A lot of the CG in Picard seemed lazy. All the transporter effects were the same, they didn't even bother to slap a colour filter over them for the different races' transporters.

Evade

TheValeyard wrote: »

Well Eaglemoss will be pissed. Very few new ships for them to try and sell!

Or happy because they can sell the same model four times.

AtomicHorror

Rawr wrote: »

Also, were those robot claws the same ones we saw briefly in Discovery? Are the big bad super-robots some how connected with Control? Not sure I like that idea

The writers have said no. Which doesn't prevent future writers trying to create a link, but that wasn't the intention. The intention was to echo Lovecraftian cosmic horror, which was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw that bit.

FGR wrote: »

They could have also put Riker on the bridge of a re-dressed Discovery too..would have been better than what we did see.

Pretty sure that's exactly what they did. Bridge redress, a fine Star Trek tradition.

FGR wrote: »

Agreed! Jurati still openly chose to kill Maddox and, judging from what had been said, would still be guilty of a crime perhaps by loss of reason/insanity of the like. That can't be tolerated especially by Picard; a man who believes you should face consequences for your actions.

Someone asked Chabon about that, he says the intention is for that to be picked up in Season 2. The fleet left before Jurati could turn herself in, and she has said she will do it, so that's yet to come.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Speaking of Riker, you'd think he'd have wanted to be there at the death of his friend and mentor, but sure no worries. It's better Picard died among virtual strangers I'm sure. :rolleyes:

Riker doesn't know Picard is about to die. After he signs off, Jurati gives Picard a look that says "You didn't tell him".

Also, people complaining that Narek just disappeared... do we really need a wrap-up scene to know he'll be back? Something was cut, I think, but we didn't need it because Narek will be back.

Greyjoy

Rawr wrote: »

It really does feel like they missed a trick there. She would have spent so many years becoming a Starfleet Flag Officer, so why not have her head a Starfleet armada. Then we could have some moral conflict with some of the Starfleet folk not wanting to follow her orders and attack the planet. Captain Riker could have been the catalyst for that etc....

Loads of potential, pissed away needlessly.

It made no sense that the Romulans would needlessly expose an agent that managed to infiltrate the highest level of Starfleet just to stand around like a cartoon villain. Oh leading the Federation fleet would have made for a better confrontation having Starfleet wrestle with its own conscience. But maybe that would have been too reminiscent of the end of Captain America : Winter Soldier?

Greyjoy

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Pretty sure that's exactly what they did. Bridge redress, a fine Star Trek tradition.


Someone asked Chabon about that, he says the intention is for that to be picked up in Season 2. The fleet left before Jurati could turn herself in, and she has said she will do it, so that's yet to come.

A bridge redress would have worked better but what we got was basically Frakes sitting in front of a green screen.

The idea that the Federation fleet didn't even hang around long enough for Jurati to hand herself over is some of the biggest load of horsesh*t this entire season. They discover a planet of synths and don't even leave a couple of ships in orbit to open diplomatic relations or even establish a defensive perimeter in case the Romulans decide to return with a larger fleet??

AtomicHorror

The good:

The themes of death and love are brought to a nice conclusion. Unlike others, I liked that Picard's decision on death was different to Data's. Data was ready, and though he could have chosen to "live" forever it was never going to be the human life he had always wished for. Only death could give him that. For Picard, death was inevitable (and still is) but given the choice, when that door opened, he walked through it to hold on to whatever piece of life he could still have.

It seems obvious that season 2 will explore what it means to return from death in this way. Does Picard consider himself to be the "real" Picard? Do others? This another opportunity to explore humanity, which is what Star Trek has always really been about. That's a good set up.

Data's first scene with Picard, Data unable to express love for Picard. This was fully correct, and it didn't matter to Picard. Data sacrificed his life for him, what more could an android do?

Narek's scene with Narissa. He gave you a chance, Space Cersei. He just wanted you to see him. You blew it.

Data's final scene, listening to his daughter sing his favorite song, aging and fading like the human he always wanted to be.

The crew of La Sirena have built into a nice family unit, but there's plenty of room for conflict and complication to fuel future drama.

Tentacled horrors from the beyond always make me smile.

pixelburp

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The good:

The themes of death and love are brought to a nice conclusion. Unlike others, I liked that Picard's decision on death was different to Data's. Data was ready, and though he could have chosen to "live" forever it was never going to be the human life he had always wished for. Only death could give him that. For Picard, death was inevitable (and still is) but given the choice, when that door opened, he walked through it to hold on to whatever piece of life he could still have.

It seems obvious that season 2 will explore what it means to return from death in this way. Does Picard consider himself to be the "real" Picard? Do others? This another opportunity to explore humanity, which is what Star Trek has always really been about. That's a good set up.

I don't share your optimism: on balance I've enjoyed this series, which is why the finale's shítting of the bed has disappointed & annoyed me so much. In regards the "death", I don't think they're going to do anything with it, because we've been here before. I've tried to avoid cribbing on Alex Kurtzman as it's reductionist, but it feels like Kurtzman has pulled the same stunt as he did with "Star Trek Into Darkness". Namely: killing a character for a cheap emotional shock, only to undo it a scene or so later. While the details were different Picard's "death" played out exactly the same as Kirk's own in that abomination of a movie. Same attempt to play for emotion without earning it, though at least Picard wasn't trying to be clever in Darkness' blatant riffing on Wrath of Khan.

AtomicHorror

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't share your optimism: on balance I've enjoyed this series, which is why the finale's shítting of the bed has disappointed & annoyed me so much. In regards the "death", I don't think they're going to do anything with it, because we've been here before.

The writers/producers indicated on an AMA a few days ago that they intend for it to be a theme in S2. Maybe it won't happen, but it's clear they don't mean for Picard's return to be a get out of jail free card. Else they would just have had the androids simply "heal" Picard using something akin to the positronic matrix therapy that would have saved Thad Riker.

pixelburp wrote: »

I've tried to avoid cribbing on Alex Kurtzman as it's reductionist, but it feels like Kurtzman has pulled the same stunt as he did with "Star Trek Into Darkness". Namely: killing a character for a cheap emotional shock, only to undo it a scene or so later. While the details were different Picard's "death" played out exactly the same as Kirk's own in that abomination of a movie. Same attempt to play for emotion without earning it, though at least Picard wasn't trying to be clever in Darkness' blatant riffing on Wrath of Khan.

That film made me so annoyed, but Picard's return is nothing like that. And if they're smart, the writers will explore the consequences of it in season 2.

Mind you, they could have written in consequences for Kirk's resurrection too, if they wanted to, but instead they made it a cheap fix. The mirroring of TWOK made my blood boil. I don't want to think about that movie anymore.

pah

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And if they're smart, the writers will explore the consequences of it in season 2.

Nothing I have seen so far in season 1 would support the argument that the writers are smart

AtomicHorror

pah wrote: »

Nothing I have seen so far in season 1 would support the argument that the writers are smart

Nothing redeeming in the 10 episodes? Why'd you put yourself through that? It's going to be a subjective evaluation I guess, but I can never understand why someone would sit through 10 hours of something before deciding not only that they merely don't like it, but that it sucks.

I think there have been plenty of brilliant writing moments, but plenty of clumsy ones. Uneven, but certainly showing plenty of evidence that the writers are smart.

In their handling of the theme of mortality and the meaning of being human, they've done well in my view. The fleshing out of the La Sirena crew, really nicely done. I like them all, I want to see them do more. The Riker family were great. The writers killed people and put others through transformative experiences- that seems to enrage some fans, but the temptation to give the fans something safe and low-stakes would have been strong.

But then you have Oh and Narissa and some really clunky exposition scenes. The Federation fleet in this episode- that was a hugely anticipated moment and they blew it.

But Narissa in particular. Yeesh. Mind you, if you put Narissa into a scene with Sela, shot it all TNG style and transmitted it back to 1993, it'd probably work just fine. We've just moved on from whatever it is they were trying to do there.

Some of the worst parts of the last episode weren't exactly writing issues either. Narek's fate was filmed and cut. Ditto Ramdha and the XBs. The Federation fleet was just as disappointing for how it looked as how they interacted with the story.

pixelburp

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The writers/producers indicated on an AMA a few days ago that they intend for it to be a theme in S2. Maybe it won't happen, but it's clear they don't mean for Picard's return to be a get out of jail free card. Else they would just have had the androids simply "heal" Picard using something akin to the positronic matrix therapy that would have saved Thad Riker.

If they've addressed it as something they want to explore, then that's cool they don't intend pretending it never happened. I still think it was an awful decision, both narratively and conceptually, but if the production team is honestly going to explore it more, cool.

AtomicHorror

pixelburp wrote: »

If they've addressed it as something they want to explore, then that's cool they don't intend pretending it never happened. I still think it was an awful decision, both narratively and conceptually, but if the production team is honestly going to explore it more, cool.

I think they can't avoid it. I mean, they must have known that even some of the fans would have qualms about whether Golem Picard is the "real" Picard.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Some of the worst parts of the last episode weren't exactly writing issues either. Narek's fate was filmed and cut. Ditto Ramdha and the XBs. The Federation fleet was just as disappointing for how it looked as how they interacted with the story.

I'm a bit skeptical of this as an excuse. There's almost certainly a couple of scenes they could have moved to part one to make room for these resolution scenes in part two.