Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

nimrod86 · 24-03-2020 9:09pm

So good and bad news...

Good news: I was sent home from work last night

Bad news part 1: my workplace is still open and acting as though nothing is going on as far as production is concerned (no slowdown and we are by no means essential)

Bad news part 2: I have been requesting to my manager that I want to work from home for over a week, and made him aware that I live with family who are considered high risk. Last night when a colleague came in, worked close to me for 90 minutes, then told me his wife works in the HSE and is now waiting for a test because she developed a cough and tight chest two days earlier. He was sent home. I fairly lost it at this point, and my manager sent me home, not because I'm capable of working from home (which I am, this was ability was set up last week), but because he now felt my stress and anxiety levels were at a point that I might make mistakes and pose a risk to myself in the workplace, then in the same breath asked would I work the rest of the night shift from home... of course I said no.

Bad news part 3: The factory I work in still has hundred of people per day coming to work, sharing canteens, and I have observed numerous people coughing into hands before handling cups, opening doors, etc... A mail came out from a corporate level telling us how we're all doing a great job keeping production going with minimal impact, and said

“if you are unable to conduct your work in a manner that maintains a two meter/six feet distance between you and your co-worker, and your close proximity work lasts more than 30 minutes, then talk to your supervisor about what can be done”

which to me suggests they are telling employees that ignoring HSE guidelines is grand! 29 minutes breathing on each other while working in cramped areas is no bother, 30 is where it gets dodgy...

There needs to be a way to report businesses that are staying open and claiming to be following guidelines, when people in them on the floor can clearly see this is not the case! I know for certain that my workplace wouldn't dream of stopping unless ordered too, there hasn't even been mention to workers about contingency plans for when people are inevitability getting sick. For the record we've already had one confirmed case on site.

So far I've kind of won, I'm off site and working from home from next week (taking a break this week, normally I'd try get a Doc's note for stress, but I'm not taking up their time at the moment) , but when eventually this all calms down they can be damn sure I'll be fighting to make sure it's recorded that I was sent home for the wrong reason, and that their inaction and lack of understanding of my family situation caused the stress and distraction that they then felt was unsafe.

/rant over

Beasty · 24-03-2020 9:18pm

Threads merged

24-03-2020 9:52pm

I have a relative working in a legal firm in Dublin. The solicitors are all working from home but everyone else is expected in, even after today's announcement. They say they don't have enough laptops yet to allow working from home for everyone, and certain admin tasks have to be done in the office. They seem to consider their service 'essential' even though the courts are closed.

Is there anywhere this crowd can be reported to?

rapul · 26-03-2020 6:14am

Does anyone know if you have started a new job last few weeks and are still on probation but need the 2 weeks off for self isolation can you be let go? I'm worried that I'm sick due a dry persistent cough getting worse for few days now and will ring my gp when they open but I'm afraid I could loose my job just how they are to be honest about being sick in general, have searched for info but can't find any.

Miike · 26-03-2020 6:27am

No specific advice for your job potentially letting you go but I urge you to follow public health guidance as self-isolate if you're symptomatic. No one wants to establish another cluster.

I know your concerns about your job are very real but so is the risk of death for many if clusters keep popping up across the nation. If an employer lets you go for not taking a deadly virus into the work place, are they the kind of employer you would want to work for long term?

DOH has a guide for accessing money via Dept. of Social protection if you need it. Be clever, be responsible, stay safe and get well soon.

rapul · 26-03-2020 6:33am

Thanks for the reply, I'm aware how serious this is alrite, I'm going to ring my gp when they are open and see, just wondering on the work side is all. I won't be going in today anyway unless the gp says it's ok.

Miike · 26-03-2020 6:34am

rapul wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, I'm aware how serious this is alrite, I'm going to ring my gp when they are open and see, just wondering on the work side is all. I won't be going in today anyway unless the gp says it's ok.

Is the new job in the public service?

rapul · 26-03-2020 6:35am

Miike wrote: »

Is the new job in the public service?

Pharmaceuticals

Beasty · 26-03-2020 9:40am

Thread merged (#90)

Sunny Disposition · 28-03-2020 3:18pm

My son has a job in an arena that is a designated service, so he will be working next week.
However his employer is insisting that him and his co workers all go into the office rather than work from home. They could easily work from home, the employer just wants to show authority, he’s a bit like that.
Can they legally refuse to go in and keep their jobs? The employee is clearly being irresponsible, but is what he is doing illegal?

Capt'n Midnight · 28-03-2020 3:31pm

This is what the Govt website says if he wants to query it.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cf9b0d-new-public-health-measures-effective-now-to-prevent-further-spread-o/

Essential services

everyone who can work from home must work from home. This includes essential workers and workers in essential government, utilities or other functions
adult community education centres and local community centres are closed
all essential services should ensure safe working conditions are in place
specific advice will be available from the Health and Safety Authority

Sunny Disposition · 28-03-2020 4:17pm

Thanks,seems very clear. What idiots for not allowing them work at home.

Beasty · 28-03-2020 4:19pm

Beasty wrote: »

Thread merged (#90)

#117

loveisdivine · 28-03-2020 4:21pm

I asked this in another thread but it got lost.

My husband works in the warehouse packing orders for an online beauty company, his boss text today to say business as usual next week.

Is this allowed under new rules? Surely they should be closing for the 2 weeks as make up and fake tan aren’t an essential service.

Badly Drunk Boy · 28-03-2020 4:58pm

I shouldn't be working but I am. My job isn't essential but 'nice to be have'. Since I started this post, I've volunteered a week of my holidays. I'm taking next week off (using my holidays) just because I have the holidays to take, and I've no plans for real holidays.

tdf7187 · 28-03-2020 5:18pm

By what possible standard is the lottery an essential service? I'm thinking of their staff who are presumably being forced to continue working.

secman · 28-03-2020 5:27pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

By what possible standard is the lottery an essential service? I'm thinking of their staff who are presumably being forced to continue working.

I would also question how off licences are deemed essential, if they are deemed to be under the heading of beverages.

Foweva Awone · 28-03-2020 5:48pm

secman wrote: »

I would also question how off licences are deemed essential, if they are deemed to be under the heading of beverages.

If off-licenses were suddenly closed, many alcoholics would almost certainly need to be hospitalised to treat their withdrawal symptoms - it is extremely dangerous for a heavy drinker to stop suddenly without medical supervision and intervention. That's hardly what hospitals need right now, even more emergency beds being taken up by people detoxing.

tdf7187 · 28-03-2020 7:06pm

Foweva Awone wrote: »

If off-licenses were suddenly closed, many alcoholics would almost certainly need to be hospitalised to treat their withdrawal symptoms - it is extremely dangerous for a heavy drinker to stop suddenly without medical supervision and intervention. That's hardly what hospitals need right now, even more emergency beds being taken up by people detoxing.

Yep. Normal drinkers dont get that though and in general have no sympathy for the alcoholic. You can die from withdrawal symptoms, unlike with most illegal drugs. it is rare but it does happen.

Foweva Awone · 28-03-2020 7:22pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yep. Normal drinkers dont get that though and in general have no sympathy for the alcoholic. You can die from withdrawal symptoms, unlike with most illegal drugs. it is rare but it does happen.

I know it too well, I've been hospitalised for alcohol withdrawals more times than a "normal" drinker has had hangovers!

Thankfully not in recent years though.

Kerry25x · 28-03-2020 7:23pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yep. Normal drinkers dont get that though and in general have no sympathy for the alcoholic. You can die from withdrawal symptoms, unlike with most illegal drugs. it is rare but it does happen.

Whether you have sympathy or not the hospitals don't need that burden. Looking after alcoholics in withdrawal can be very difficult and time consuming when they start getting shaky, aggitated, hallucinating etc.

kerryjack · 29-03-2020 8:32am

Son works for a civil engineering company that does work for Irish water, its business as usual in the morning his told, I would prefer if he stayed at home for 2 weeks what ye think.

seefin · 29-03-2020 9:13am

kerryjack wrote: »

Son works for a civil engineering company that does work for Irish water, its business as usual in the morning his told, I would prefer if he stayed at home for 2 weeks what ye think.

Irish water is essential services so I can see why they'd still be operating as usual

Jim_Hodge · 29-03-2020 9:19am

He's linked to an essential service. My son in law is in a utility business and has to work too. My daughter is a nurse, so we're really worried for her. But these are the times when people step up to the mark.

homewardbound11 · 29-03-2020 9:28am

I’m finding employers are using “angles” to maintain its normal business .

Being essential service is flouted especially where for example in one company I know a significantly small part of their business is insurance . They then deemed all the workers related to the significant business all have to come in also .when in reality it is only one one or two people who deal with the insurance part .

In another business they are using essential services to maintain normal business that includes travel country wide to maintain equipment in companies such as soft drinks, a college research group, a research group with farming related activities . What I’m saying it should be essential services to support infrastructure to support the fight against this pandemic .

I’m pretty sure if the op was asked to support only the Irish water part of the business and travel only when absolutely necessary then it would be acceptable .

kravmaga · 29-03-2020 9:31am

@OP, your son is under the umbrella of providing an essential service even if he is not directly employed by Irish Water, he is a sub contractor.

See list of Irish Government essential workers

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0328/1127041-list-essential-jobs/

seannash · 29-03-2020 9:34am

kerryjack wrote: »

Son works for a civil engineering company that does work for Irish water, its business as usual in the morning his told, I would prefer if he stayed at home for 2 weeks what ye think.

Its his choice, he can take annual leave for the next two weeks.
Am i right in thinking you or he wants to isolate for 2 weeks and be paid also? Of thats the case tell him to tale PTO.

kerryjack · 29-03-2020 9:44am

We live in a small community here and he travels to limerick every day and He lives with us at the minute and don't want him to bring the virus back here.

nimrod86 · 29-03-2020 10:04am

homewardbound11 wrote: »

I’m finding employers are using “angles” to maintain its normal business .

Being essential service is flouted especially where for example in one company I know a significantly small part of their business is insurance . They then deemed all the workers related to the significant business all have to come in also .when in reality it is only one one or two people who deal with the insurance part .

In another business they are using essential services to maintain normal business that includes travel country wide to maintain equipment in companies such as soft drinks, a college research group, a research group with farming related activities . What I’m saying it should be essential services to support infrastructure to support the fight against this pandemic .

I’m pretty sure if the op was asked to support only the Irish water part of the business and travel only when absolutely necessary then it would be acceptable .

Yep, agree with what you're saying. Far too many large and small businesses using the vague list to decide their profits are essential over employee health. Only a matter of time before the choice is taken from them as their workforce gets sick...

Beasty · 29-03-2020 11:46am

Threads merged

SCOOP 64 · 29-03-2020 12:03pm

loveisdivine wrote: »

I asked this in another thread but it got lost.

My husband works in the warehouse packing orders for an online beauty company, his boss text today to say business as usual next week.

Is this allowed under new rules? Surely they should be closing for the 2 weeks as make up and fake tan aren’t an essential service.

This is it some Company's will refuse to close, what would he say if he was stopped by guards on way in and asked were his going, and guards seen his work and non essential will he be told to turn round and go home?
can you report a company for being non complaint?
Other wise what's the point shall we all go to work tomorrow.

uck51js9zml2yt · 29-03-2020 12:11pm

All non essential staff in my place are at home and being set up to work from home

SCOOP 64 · 29-03-2020 12:21pm

Yehuda Whispering Numerical wrote: »

All non essential staff in my place are at home and being set up to work from home

Yes were its possible, not for a factory worker or many other workers,the UK have introduced up to £5000 fine for a business found to be non compliant.

nimrod86 · 29-03-2020 12:25pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Yes were its possible, not for a factory worker or many other workers,the UK have introduced up to £5000 fine for a business found to be non compliant.

Needed here, but should be relative to company profits. €5000 wouldn't make a dent to some of the multinationals here. My workplace is classed essential even though anything we get out the factory door today is still at best around 3-6 months from being a consumer product. Even longer for product only starting on our line today... absolutely sickening that their profits are essential enough to risk our health.

doxy79 · 29-03-2020 12:59pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

can you report a company for being non complaint?

I'd like to know that too. I work for a large multinational who are manufacturing products nobody wants or needs right now. I've been told to report for work tomorrow.

MrMiata · 29-03-2020 1:43pm

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, not sure where else to ask really.

I'm 22, healthy other than the fact that I've asthma.

I'm also working 'part time' in a supermarket, I worked 50 hours last week.

My parents are going ballistic because I'm working, they think I should be at home.

My supervisor rang me yesterday to say that I shouldn't be in working and that I should call my GP and arrange for the 2 weeks medical leave, but that I wasn't to come into work for my own sake.

So where do I stand?

Should I just call my GP and say I've asthma and that I'm working in a shop?
Or is it a case of 'my employer has asked me to self isolate?

Am I eligible for the 2 weeks paid medical leave or more than that?

Honestly haven't a clue..
I just need to get it sorted by Tuesday.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Note - I am not asking for medical advice, so I'd like to steer clear of those discussions.

antix80 · 29-03-2020 1:46pm

Your employer has a right to send you home.. I think his risk assessment is spot on.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/covid19_pandemic_unemployment_payment.html

To qualify for the new COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment, you must:

Be aged between 18 and 66
Live in the Republic of Ireland
Have been in employment or self-employment immediately before Friday 13 March 2020
Have lost your job or be temporarily laid off from work or asked to stay at home from work due to the pandemic

iamwhoiam · 29-03-2020 1:46pm

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/923825-guidance-on-cocooning-to-protect-people-over-70-years-and-those-extr/#what-we-

What we mean by extremely medically vulnerable*
people aged 70 years or over
solid organ transplant recipients
people with specific cancers
(a) people with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radical radiotherapy for lung cancer

(b) people with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment

(c) people having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer

(d) people having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors

(e) people who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs

people with severe respiratory conditions including cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe COPD
people with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as SCID, homozygous sickle cell)
people on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection
women who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired

scamalert · 29-03-2020 1:47pm

MrMiata wrote: »

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, not sure where else to ask really.

I'm 22, healthy other than the fact that I've asthma.

I'm also working 'part time' in a supermarket, I worked 50 hours last week.

My parents are going ballistic because I'm working, they think I should be at home.

My supervisor rang me yesterday to say that I shouldn't be in working and that I should call my GP and arrange for the 2 weeks medical leave, but that I wasn't to come into work for my own sake.

So where do I stand?

Should I just call my GP and say I've asthma and that I'm working in a shop?
Or is it a case of 'my employer has asked me to self isolate?

Am I eligible for the 2 weeks paid medical leave or more than that?

Honestly haven't a clue..
I just need to get it sorted by Tuesday.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Note - I am not asking for medical advice, so I'd like to steer clear of those discussions.

well seems employer is looking after you, given thou you put in time, so request letter stating that they asked you to self isolate, which would enable you to go on SW for couple weeks, rather then wasting time with GPs.

NicsM · 29-03-2020 1:48pm

Does anyone know, if an employee falls under the category of those needing to cocoon (they have COPD) can they be forced to work? Their role doesn’t strictly fall under essential services. And if not, is the employer obliged to pay them?

CrabRevolution · 29-03-2020 1:52pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Yes were its possible, not for a factory worker or many other workers,the UK have introduced up to £5000 fine for a business found to be non compliant.

I'd say a few companies would take the £5000 hit as it'd cost less than shuttering their operations.

easypazz · 29-03-2020 2:01pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

This is it some Company's will refuse to close, what would he say if he was stopped by guards on way in and asked were his going, and guards seen his work and non essential will he be told to turn round and go home?
can you report a company for being non complaint?
Other wise what's the point shall we all go to work tomorrow.

Alcohol is not essential either, so where do they draw the line?

A bit rich allowing beer to be sold but not paint.

kerryjack · 29-03-2020 2:02pm

I think they could close all shops on a sunday and maybe a Wednesday as well give staff a break and get people used to having a bit in.

29-03-2020 2:03pm

easypazz wrote: »

Alcohol is not essential either, so where do they draw the line?

A bit rich allowing beer to be sold but not paint.

Nothing is essential apart from some basic nutrition and water. Is that all you bought or did you buy some foods and drinks because you like them?

easypazz · 29-03-2020 2:04pm

kerryjack wrote: »

I think they could close all shops on a sunday and maybe a Wednesday as well give staff a break and get people used to having a bit in.

Will only make things busier and increase the spread.

Staff get days off anyway.

cannotlogin · 29-03-2020 2:07pm

There are a lot of people crying out for an employer like that at the moment.

Your parents and your employer are not wrong.

Ring your GP and claim 6our entitlements.

Stay safe

kerryjack · 29-03-2020 2:07pm

easypazz wrote: »

Will only make things busier and increase the spread.

Staff get days off anyway.

Do you think, would stop people running in for a litre of milk every evening.

kerryjack · 29-03-2020 2:08pm

easypazz wrote: »

Will only make things busier and increase the spread.

Staff get days off anyway.

Do you think, it would stop people running in for a litre of milk every evening.

Water John · 29-03-2020 2:09pm

Name and shame seems to be only answer. A lot of cos would have brands that and goodwill have a big financial worth to them.

amadangomor · 29-03-2020 2:15pm

nimrod86 wrote: »

Needed here, but should be relative to company profits. €5000 wouldn't make a dent to some of the multinationals here. My workplace is classed essential even though anything we get out the factory door today is still at best around 3-6 months from being a consumer product. Even longer for product only starting on our line today... absolutely sickening that their profits are essential enough to risk our health.

Well known semiconductor manufacturer just outside Dublin?

Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

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