Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

Calahonda52

tdf7187 wrote: »

A lot of BCP plans which most people including myself thought would never be needed now coming into operation.

.
My guess is, having written them in the past, that very few had this scenario in mind

Cantona's Collars

loveisdivine wrote: »

I sent a message on twitter to the HSE Live people, explaining that my husbands employer isn’t an essential service and they’re we’re continuing business as usual, they replied to say they have no way to check it.

Great, lots of help.

You don't contact the HSE, it's the HSA you contact. They will close a place down for breaches of health and safety.

Still waters

If you're a non essential worker and your bosses expect you in tomorrow tell them to go and fcuk themselves, if this has to be spelt out for people at this stage its all the fcukin one

Still waters

Still waters wrote: »

If you're a non essential worker and your bosses expect you in tomorrow tell them to go and fcuk themselves, if this has to be spelt out for people at this stage its all the fcukin one

It’s true though. Sometimes employers need to be told.

SCOOP 64

Still waters wrote: »

If you're a non essential worker and your bosses expect you in tomorrow tell them to go and fcuk themselves, if this has to be spelt out for people at this stage its all the fcukin one

I think the concern that people have is not turning up to work can they still claim the €350 to keep going, I believe you properly can because its not your fault a non essential company refuses to close, that's if the company hasn't found a loophole.

jd1983

I'm working for a company where all its office staff can work from home. Yet we're still expected to go to the office tomorrow. Just wondering if anyone knows the legal position of this. If I went to work tomorrow, would I be technically breaking the law and could I technically be prosecuted? I know practically speaking no one is likely to be prosecuted for such actions.
I work in an area that's not considered to be essential.

Beasty

Threads merged

doxy79

Still waters wrote: »

If you're a non essential worker and your bosses expect you in tomorrow tell them to go and fcuk themselves, if this has to be spelt out for people at this stage its all the fcukin one

Not easy for non permanent workers who know they'll get the bullet if they don't do as they're told. Of course a lot of them will suffer that fate either way, but nobody wants to be on the job market after this blows over if there's any small chance of helping it. The employers are the ones who need to take responsibility here.

seefin

jd1983 wrote: »

I'm working for a company where all its office staff can work from home. Yet we're still expected to go to the office tomorrow. Just wondering if anyone knows the legal position of this. If I went to work tomorrow, would I be technically breaking the law and could I technically be prosecuted? I know practically speaking no one is likely to be prosecuted for such actions.
I work in an area that's not considered to be essential.

Even if in essential job, if can fully work from home you're covered by the restrictions . Don't go in and quote the restrictions (point 1 under community health)

Xertz

There'll be some interesting legal cases when this is over. I would assume that employers behaving genuinely negligently will potentially be open to civil action should staff become infected, whatever about prosecution now.

A busy few years in the courts when the dust eventually settles.

tv221

A lot of Shannon firms seem to have some staff working today. My own operating at about 30%

Would have to wonder if there's an urgency for airline mro's to be fixing the planes of airlines most have never heard of, not freight liners either. Or why the crowd that spray paints planes is open as usual with staff mingling outside, very little social distancing.

We have to keep the economy going, but hope the number of cases currently 34 in Clare doesn't shoot up, because of greed.

paulpd

My missus was just stopped by Guards on the way to work just before 7am and asked where she was going. She's a nurse in Dublin City centre so was OK.

loveisdivine

My husband (who works at the online beauty shop I mentioned a few posts ago) was stopped going through Castleblayney this morning, they asked where he worked and said to just make sure he gets a letter.

It certainly seems if a business wants to use "grey areas" to continue opening, they're not really gonna face any questions.

Sunny Disposition

My sons place of work relented after the workers kicked up.
The government are doing a good job, and this has all had to be done on the fly, but there is a need for a body to report non compliant companies to. Then their directors need to be personally punished.

Lucas424

Shocking the total disregard some employers are showing for their employees and this situation in general. We as a society have been requested by the government to stay at home to help to control this virus , shameful at some employers using grey areas and loopholes to force non essential workers to continue working putting them at risk of catching and spreading infection while travelling to work on public transport and total lack of social distancing when at work . My partner works in the staff canteen in the central bank , the bank may be an essential workplace but surely baristas, food servers, chefs, and kitchen porters are not essential to the running of this business, the vast majority of bank employees are working from home only a skeleton staff remain working on site surely they should be encouraged to bring lunch from home . A lot of non essential workers are still being forced to leave their homes every morning and travelling around the city putting themselves and others at risk.

Ulysses Gaze

Still waters wrote: »

If you're a non essential worker and your bosses expect you in tomorrow tell them to go and fcuk themselves, if this has to be spelt out for people at this stage its all the fcukin one

A lot of these employers will find that when things settle down, they will lose a lot of valuable employees who were sickened by their behaviour during the crisis.

But will they learn?

They will in their holes.

statto25

I am an IT Admin so responsible for in house servers and infrastructure for pretty lucrative company but not classed as essential. I would only be going on site in the case of emergency e.g Server unresponsive, network issues and have a letter stating that. Would that suffice for a Garda or would I be turned away/fined or should I be OK?

Ninthlife

statto25 wrote: »

I am an IT Admin so responsible for in house servers and infrastructure for pretty lucrative company but not classed as essential. I would only be going on site in the case of emergency e.g Server unresponsive, network issues and have a letter stating that. Would that suffice for a Garda or would I be turned away/fined or should I be OK?

Can't see there being any issue.

The letter should it be needed removes any doubt as to your reason for travelling to said location

expectationlost

loveisdivine wrote: »

I asked a local Garda and they said to refer to the HSE, they’ve since come back to me saying there is nowhere else to report it to and maybe contact local representatives.

So basically companies are free to do whatever they like.

did he ask the garda (or the garda superviser) to talk to his boss?

Captain Flaps

I work for an employer who is fully online based and has a specific mention on the 'essential' list. In fact, because so many of our competitors are closed now, our sales are fantastic.

I am 100% desk based, office job. 50% of the workforce is office based, 50% warehouse/shipping. We've all been told that the warehouse is now over capacity so we're all reassigned as warehouse staff until further notice.

I've requested permission to work from home as my job is fully possible to do remotely, I was told no, go help in the warehouse. Nothing else I can do really. If I insist I won't be let go, but they're a vindictive bunch and I'll be on the chopping block in the next round of redundancies.

Ohmeha

Deemed essential by my employer, yet some of team who perform identical roles (and also on vastly higher salaries) have been deemed non-essential and are off. This has resulted in a 300% increase in my workload this morning but I have been told by my supervisor that this same work is not 'critical' so not to worry.... unreal

loveisdivine

expectationlost wrote: »

did he ask the garda (or the garda superviser) to talk to his boss?

No, he’s concerned that if he makes too much of a fuss his hours will be cut once this all dies down. He still needs a job after this, just wants to be treated fairly during this whole mess.

The employer have now sourced some travel size hand sanitizers they can sell on the site, so they can call themselves essential now.

MrMiata

Lazare wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm going to be blunt.

Stop being an idiot and stay at home. Your desire to go to work, although you can likely be forgiven for it due to ignorance, is extremely selfish.

You are at risk of ICU.

A doctor will let an old person die to save you.

Stay at home.

Spoke with my doctor, he said take a week and then start on nights.
That's because the roster has already been drawn up for this week.

PricklyPete

Has there been any backlash yet against these unnecessary workplaces staying open?

I'm absolutely fuming that my place is still open but I feel a bit powerless to do much about it. I'm a temporary employee who's a couple of months away from permanency, so it's a very awkward position to be put in. Even so, I'm so annoyed I feel like telling them I'm not coming in until the unnecessary business lockdown is lifted. Would I even get the government covid payment in that scenario? Assuming i don't get fired for refusing to come in, that is.

SCOOP 64

PricklyPete wrote: »

Has there been any backlash yet against these unnecessary workplaces staying open?

I'm absolutely fuming that my place is still open but I feel a bit powerless to do much about it. I'm a temporary employee who's a couple of months away from permanency, so it's a very awkward position to be put in. Even so, I'm so annoyed I feel like telling them I'm not coming in until the unnecessary business lockdown is lifted. Would I even get the government covid payment in that scenario? Assuming i don't get fired for refusing to come in, that is.

There are other threads covering this subject, you could go ahead and put a claim and let them decide if the businesses is non essential, not sure how they will take it, before Friday if you walk out of work your claim would have be refused, not sure what position is now.

Lucas424

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

There are other threads covering this subject, you could go ahead and put a claim and let them decide if the businesses is non essential, not sure how they will take it, before Friday if you walk out of work your claim would have be refused, not sure what position is now.

My partner explained to her manager she was not comfortable ignoring government guidelines and continuing her day as normal by coming into work to carry out a non essential job. She was told that the canteen she works in is still open for business and if she did not come in she would be unpaid and not entitled to any benefits.

splinter65

Lucas424 wrote: »

My partner explained to her manager she was not comfortable ignoring government guidelines and continuing her day as normal by coming into work to carry out a non essential job. She was told that the canteen she works in is still open for business and if she did not come in she would be unpaid and not entitled to any benefits.

Why does she think that her job in the canteen is non essential?

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

Why does she think that her job in the canteen is non essential?

Even if it is, if conditions aren’t right then nobody should be there.

Lucas424

splinter65 wrote: »

Why does she think that her job in the canteen is non essential?

Serving nespresso to a handful of skeleton staff is definitely not essential. Travelling to work on public transport, no effort to enforce social distancing at work . Several staff showing symptoms. Restaurants and cafes on the high street have been shutdown. Just because it is hidden behind closed doors in a private business does not make it safe or essential.

Lurker2020

Lucas424 wrote: »

Serving nespresso to a handful of skeleton staff is definitely not essential. Travelling to work on public transport, no effort to enforce social distancing at work . Several staff showing symptoms. Restaurants and cafes on the high street have been shutdown. Just because it is hidden behind closed doors in a private business does not make it safe or essential.

Lucas424 wrote: »

Serving nespresso to a handful of skeleton staff is definitely not essential. Travelling to work on public transport, no effort to enforce social distancing at work . Several staff showing symptoms. Restaurants and cafes on the high street have been shutdown. Just because it is hidden behind closed doors in a private business does not make it safe or essential.

Long term lurker, but first time creating an account and posting. As others have said maybe the likes of the HSA could help. I work in HR and would think if she raised a strong enough grievance it would be the type of thing I wouldn't want landing on my desk.

If she wanted to she could follow the company grievance procedure and lodge a grievance asking them to specify what steps they have taken to protect her from the risk, why they consider the canteen essential, whether the canteen could offer a 'contactless' service,e.g online orders and remote collection of canteen items or whatever etc during this period, what their interpretation of the current guidance is etc.

The central bank or whoever her employer is if she is contracted, if their HR policies are any good would have to reply in a specified number of days (likely 7 or 14). If that grievance landed on my desk in HR I'd be looking to get rid of it without putting much in writing especially if I had a doubt relating to whether the canteen was essential or the safety precautions taken.

If I were more unscrupulous at my job, I would probably be finding ways to either shut down the canteen or asking you not to come to work so that you get the SW payment as quickly as possible and drop your grievance. It would be too much of a risk to deal with tbh if it got into a newspaper or the wrc as a case.

On the other hand, if the company genuinely believes it to be essential and can back themselves up on any action they have taken, they may be inclined to continue doing what they are doing and the grievance process is useless as it's long and drawn out, all the while with your partner going to work.

I am however a nicer HR person and would have made sure that the precautions were taken seriously and that only essential staff were on site with loaves of bread or stocked fridges or places to store food or whatever, so that the company was not putting people's lives in danger unnecessarily.

Best of luck with it!

Ohmeha

Work canteens are classified as restaurants so they are currently restricted to serving takeaways so staff could be considered essential if the employer/franchisee determines it can still operate in a takeaway function

However my employer and I know of a few others have closed their canteens altogether because it's not financially viable to operate with a small percentage of staff actually in the premises so free tea/coffee/bottled drinks/sandwiches are being provided in lieu

martin101

In my job today I finally had enough. Office of about 50 people, 10% of the work is essential and 90% isn't. The people doing the essential work are at home doing work. There was 8 of us in today all the others are now working from home. My work is non essential. I've been off for two weeks at a time and have come back to where I left off. I asked my boss could I work from home as my wife has an underlying condition, he knows about this as I've had to take time off work before to look after her. I was told it was too messy for me to work from home. So before I quit the job which I was very close to doing today I rang the doctor. He has put me on two weeks self isolating for now and see how I feel after that and where we stand then.

expectationlost

Lucas424 wrote: »

Serving nespresso to a handful of skeleton staff is definitely not essential. Travelling to work on public transport, no effort to enforce social distancing at work . Several staff showing symptoms. Restaurants and cafes on the high street have been shutdown. Just because it is hidden behind closed doors in a private business does not make it safe or essential.

it sounds like she's probably not needed is the business itself deemed essential.

has she got protective gear?

Lucas424

Ohmeha wrote: »

Work canteens are classified as restaurants so they are currently restricted to serving takeaways so staff could be considered essential if the employer/franchisee determines it can still operate in a takeaway function

However my employer and I know of a few others have closed their canteens altogether because it's not financially viable to operate with a small percentage of staff actually in the premises so free tea/coffee/bottled drinks/sandwiches are being provided in lieu

It is a bit of a grey area ,most essential business will have deemed some of the usual services provided at work as non essential ie: cafes, staff restaurants. Free coffee and tea and encouraging the few essential staff to bring in a packed lunch rather than having hospitality staff run the risk of spreading infection..This is a national emergency everyone should be playing their part to try to control this and limit the damage from this virus...Businesses ignoring the government message of non essential staff to STAY AT HOME is a major issue..

rocky1813

Flying Fox wrote: »

I have a relative working in a legal firm in Dublin. The solicitors are all working from home but everyone else is expected in, even after today's announcement. They say they don't have enough laptops yet to allow working from home for everyone, and certain admin tasks have to be done in the office. They seem to consider their service 'essential' even though the courts are closed.

Is there anywhere this crowd can be reported to?

I’m the same in a small solicitors firm with most of the solicitors working from home but because I’m a secretary I have to go in every day. I know for a fact that day to day business is definitely not essential but they’re so greedy they won’t close for two weeks.

smurfjed

tv221 wrote: »

A lot of Shannon firms seem to have some staff working today. My own operating at about 30%

Would have to wonder if there's an urgency for airline mro's to be fixing the planes of airlines most have never heard of, not freight liners either. Or why the crowd that spray paints planes is open as usual with staff mingling outside, very little social distancing.

We have to keep the economy going, but hope the number of cases currently 34 in Clare doesn't shoot up, because of greed.

The airlines can sue if their aircraft are not delivered on time and might force the company into bankruptcy.

zombierob

Horse breeders still business as usual, no proper ppe gear for workers.. Dunno how that work is essential..

loveisdivine

Forgot to post last night my husband got his letter from his employer explaining why he's an essential worker.

1. We sell hand sanitiser (they have only started stocking sanitiser today, simply so they can cash in and profit off the situation)

2. We sell health supplements (they sell things like activated charcoal and greens powder, nothing even remotely essential during a pandemic)

3. We sell essential skincare products (they sell the exact same beauty/skin products that you can buy in debenhams etc. Nothing medical that would actually be deemed essential)

It would be one thing having to work and take risks if you felt you were actually providing an essential service for the country in a time of need. It's incredibly frustrating having to do it just so some pleb can keep getting deliveries of their make up and face creams.

He's resigned himself to the fact they won't be closing and he's trying not to get annoyed by it anymore, but I'm still pretty annoyed. I have moderate asthma and its stressful thinking he could bring the virus home, all so his super rich boss can keep raking it in.

circadian

Rufeo wrote: »

After hours, the solution to all Life's problems

After Hours, the problem to all of life's solutions.

2nd Row Donkey

zombierob wrote:

Horse breeders still business as usual, no proper ppe gear for workers.. Dunno how that work is essential..

When the zombies come, horseback will be an essential mode of transport.

PTH2009

When closed business are allowed open again which hopefully will be sooner rather than later They will have to be a period of getting places stocked/prepared etc

3/4 day warning before open of business I imagine

Sheep Shagger

When things reopen, retail will be a mess.

Seasonal stock that wasnt sold taking up valuable shelf space and incoming seasonal stock that may not have the full window to sell.

SwordofLight

Or if you had an underlying condition?

If you're classed as an essential worker and they are pushing you to work despite your concerns, and their measures or lack of adequate measures to protect you scare the bejaysus out of you...

What would you do?

Beasty

Threads merged

zom

Builders on sites again (Dublin 2). They stand for two days but back in work (demolition from what I hear).
I thought €350 of covid unemployment payment will be enough to stop them but there id number of NI vans around the city and they not qualify for Leo's presents I would say..

Aska

A couple of haulage companies down here (delivering sand and stone, not foodstuffs) are puting some drivers on holiday pay for 2 weeks first and then the Covid pay system as they want the drivers to have no holidays left once this all ends and they can maximise the work out of them knowing that they won't have any holidays left to use.

Also some TDs have lots to answer for by supplying a letter to a company to say that the delivery of Sand is in the welfare of the horses.

Canyon86

Things could get interesting if this drags onto the summer/ sept etc and companies are "asking" employees to use up their annual leave


Also you could have a scenario whereby numerous employees would be looking for the same time off immediately after the lockdown

Canyon86

Canyon86 wrote: »

Things could get interesting if this drags onto the summer/ sept etc and companies are "asking" employees to use up their annual leave


Also you could have a scenario whereby numerous employees would be looking for the same time off immediately after the lockdown

We’ll probably all need to compromise there.

Strumms

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

When the zombies come, horseback will be an essential mode of transport.

If the zombies conscript all the horses to work in Dunnes, Donkeys become an essential mode of transport, if they have their own cars or bicycles, a bonus.

ShyMets

Looks like I'll need to head into the office on Monday for a few hours. There are a couple of things I cant do from home.

Its strange, but in a perverse way I'm looking forward to it. I've been more or less house bound the last three weeks so going further then the shops will be a bit of a treat. I never thought I'd say that about going to work.