What do you do about Club Membership fees if courses are closed

Golfhead65 · 24-03-2020 2:31pm #1

Just wondering what everyone will do about membership fees if golf clubs are forced to close ?? If you paid upfront will you be credited, if you are on DD do you suspend ??

GolfNut33 · 24-03-2020 2:51pm

Can see a few clubs going because of this. Our club ain't exactly flush at the moment so will struggle. Personally I have paid upfront and won't be looking for a suspension on my sub if it hurts the club to do so.

Can see most who pay monthly stopping their payments and there are also lots who have lost their jobs and golf will be the first to go from the outgoings.

callaway92 · 24-03-2020 2:53pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone will do about membership fees if golf clubs are forced to close ?? If you paid upfront will you be credited, if you are on DD do you suspend ??

Surely it'd just be carried over if you paid up front?

DD should be stopped obv

youcancallmeal · 24-03-2020 3:52pm

I'm debating whether to keep paying my monthly DD. It seems like golf is going to be one of the last things to be closed due to lower risk of spreading coronavirus(When all proper precautions and social distancing is followed of course). So with that logic courses should be first to open back up when we move back to less restrictive measures.

DuckSlice · 24-03-2020 4:31pm

I haven't paid yet, and don't intend to pay unless I can start playing which wont be anytime soon. at this stage I think I will hold out for membership for next year. Club usually does an 15 month offer around October time.

Ollieboy · 24-03-2020 4:40pm

If we all do what your suggesting above then sell your clubs quick because there will be no golf clubs left. Where do you think they get the money from if you stop paying!

That’s what you do when you join a club, you support it through thick and thin!

slave1 · 24-03-2020 4:40pm

This is going to be a biggie, what with the weather I have not played my home course this yr, think I played it once since November, it could be months before the courses are open again, membership is not exactly short change and pretty much everyone I know bar 2 lads have not paid subs for 2020 yet

Rackstar · 24-03-2020 4:58pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone will do about membership fees if golf clubs are forced to close ?? If you paid upfront will you be credited, if you are on DD do you suspend ??

You can't be serious. It's your club, you do everything possible to keep it alive. It'd take a special type of person to go looking for credit. Really shows your true colours. You must bounce around clubs?

eoghan104 · 24-03-2020 5:28pm

Rackstar wrote: »

You can't be serious. It's your club, you do everything possible to keep it alive. It'd take a special type of person to go looking for credit. Really shows your true colours. You must bounce around clubs?

I think anyone with any kind of affinity to their club will pay their fees. You cant blame someone who changes clubs a lot for not wanting to pay.

BigChap1759 · 24-03-2020 5:52pm

Rackstar wrote: »

You can't be serious. It's your club, you do everything possible to keep it alive. It'd take a special type of person to go looking for credit. Really shows your true colours. You must bounce around clubs?

Not all clubs are member owned clubs - many are commercial going concerns and so I think that puts a different slant on things.

GreeBo · 24-03-2020 5:55pm

I'm thinking about changing my sub to an hourly DD.
That way I can cancel it at night time and when the course is closed due to rain or frost.

I'll save a bundle!

hurikane · 24-03-2020 5:55pm

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Not all clubs are member owned clubs - many are commercial going concerns and so I think that puts a different slant on things.

The course may be owned separately, there’ll be no club without the course.

Kingswood Rover · 24-03-2020 6:16pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone will do about membership fees if golf clubs are forced to close ?? If you paid upfront will you be credited, if you are on DD do you suspend ??

If you want your club to survive and you can manage the payment then do it. Some clubs are run by businesses rather than club owned i would think that these clubs will be even in more peril as there might not be the same level of commitment.

dan_ep82 · 24-03-2020 6:33pm

I signed up to a DD at the beginning of the year but as of yet to receive any word on it. Obviously now it will either be very hard or impossible to pay.

If it's possible to get a holiday similar to the mortgages and just start later in the year I won't have a problem paying to keep it open. It will mean the courses may need to secure funding in the mean time which might not be possible for all clubs.

Golfhead65 · 24-03-2020 7:10pm

Rackstar wrote: »

You can't be serious. It's your club, you do everything possible to keep it alive. It'd take a special type of person to go looking for credit. Really shows your true colours. You must bounce around clubs?

Never seen you on this before, maybe you have but dont attack me about my true colors, I only asked a genuine question that most sane people replied sensibly and for your information I'm a fully paid up member of my club and have a worry about where this goes as I know renewals were only due around now

FixdePitchmark · 24-03-2020 7:40pm

slave1 wrote: »

This is going to be a biggie, what with the weather I have not played my home course this yr, think I played it once since November, it could be months before the courses are open again, membership is not exactly short change and pretty much everyone I know bar 2 lads have not paid subs for 2020 yet

Are you serious ?

You consider weather when paying your sub :eek:

I accept it depends on the type of club. But very surprised at the pace people willing to even consider this.

I accept people are losing jobs etc and it is an emotional time.

But , I'll be paying everything - even my gym and let them come up with a proposal over the next 2/3 months.

I sense there were some of the actions that have been taken, that have been a bit Irish, a bit opportunistic.

We are coming off the back of 6/7 years a fairly substantial economic growth and the speed of let offs and style is extraordinary.

Anyway - support your club if you can, thick and thin.

charlieIRL · 24-03-2020 8:02pm

I pay mine by DD every month and I’ve no intention of stopping it. I haven’t played my course since October either - not 100% by my choice either, the timesheet was always full when I went to try get out.
Clubs are going to struggle and until I’m short of cash, I’ll keep paying. I want my club to be here when all this eventually comes to an end.

tvercetti · 24-03-2020 8:24pm

I only got my renewal letter about 2 weeks ago. Not sure if that's because its approx 12 months since I joined or that they wait to see who doesn't renew and then send them a letter in Spring. The course is usually in a bad state when wet so I haven't been near the place.

Last year was my first year back golfing so not sure how the system works anymore. Is it calendar year at most clubs, I think my old club used look for renewals around October time.

It's €450 (9 hole course) to join and I was planning a round for tomorrow but was in 2 minds whether to pay a green fee or cough up the money. But getting a round in is starting to look unlikely now.

Mantis Toboggan · 24-03-2020 8:29pm

You owe your club nothing, fair enough support it if you like but if there's a number of clubs in your area it's a buyers market.

Trust me if you "support" your club for years and years and something happens that you can't pay the sub they won't be long showing you the door. I've seen it first hand. Like car insurance it pays to shop around.

I've paid upfront already though, the course will be closed for the foreseeable. Hard to know what happens next.

ger664 · 24-03-2020 8:32pm

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I'm debating whether to keep paying my monthly DD. It seems like golf is going to be one of the last things to be closed due to lower risk of spreading coronavirus(When all proper precautions and social distancing is followed of course). So with that logic courses should be first to open back up when we move back to less restrictive measures.

https://www.golfnet.ie/news/golfnet/4645/gui-ilgu-recommend-all-clubs-and-golf-facilities-to-close

Rackstar · 24-03-2020 8:36pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Never seen you on this before, maybe you have but dont attack me about my true colors, I only asked a genuine question that most sane people replied sensibly and for your information I'm a fully paid up member of my club and have a worry about where this goes as I know renewals were only due around now

Don’t feign worry for your club while looking for ways out of your sub then. If you really cared you would have posted a thread looking for ways to get members to continue paying their sub.

slave1 · 24-03-2020 8:40pm

slave1 wrote: »

This is going to be a biggie, what with the weather I have not played my home course this yr, think I played it once since November, it could be months before the courses are open again, membership is not exactly short change and pretty much everyone I know bar 2 lads have not paid subs for 2020 yet

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Are you serious ?

You consider weather when paying your sub :eek:

I accept it depends on the type of club. But very surprised at the pace people willing to even consider this.

I accept people are losing jobs etc and it is an emotional time.

But , I'll be paying everything - even my gym and let them come up with a proposal over the next 2/3 months.

I sense there were some of the actions that have been taken, that have been a bit Irish, a bit opportunistic.

We are coming off the back of 6/7 years a fairly substantial economic growth and the speed of let offs and style is extraordinary.

Anyway - support your club if you can, thick and thin.

Well the weather did play it's part because I generally pay the first time I'm golfing and subs due, also nearly all my playing partners are in the same boat in that they are undecided on what to do.
In any case I was moving clubs this year but now don't know what to do.
Again, subs are not short change, I have 3 kids with the first in Uni since September so I have to wise up that I have the potential of 15 years Uni costs to pay for so now I stop and think at all spends, from a cash flow perspective there is the potential of all 3 in Uni at the same time, my brain blows when I work out the cost for that year I can tell you.
As you said, emotional times but I would also say we are in a time where folk just do not know whats around the corner and decisions just cannot be made...

Golfhead65 · 24-03-2020 9:42pm

Rackstar wrote: »

Don’t feign worry for your club while looking for ways out of your sub then. If you really cared you would have posted a thread looking for ways to get members to continue paying their sub.

I'm thinking this is a personal attack on me and you are hiding behind Rackstar as you've never posted on this forum before but you are 65 bus ride away from me,

finglashoop · 24-03-2020 9:48pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

I pay mine by DD every month and I’ve no intention of stopping it. I haven’t played my course since October either - not 100% by my choice either, the timesheet was always full when I went to try get out.
Clubs are going to struggle and until I’m short of cash, I’ll keep paying. I want my club to be here when all this eventually comes to an end.

Same for me. My wifes job is closed but my work is safe enough for now. So as long as i can afford it ill keep paying

FixdePitchmark · 24-03-2020 10:00pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm thinking about changing my sub to an hourly DD.
That way I can cancel it at night time and when the course is closed due to rain or frost.

I'll save a bundle!

Look - we are in a bloody crash (again :mad:) and we are going to enter a cycle of bargain basement golf. It will be like the NAMA years golf again.

30/50 quid for a championship level course. Watch this space.

Membership will fall off fairly quick. As already seen here.

Mantis Toboggan · 24-03-2020 10:01pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

30/50 quid for a championship level course. Watch this space.

Hopefully

FixdePitchmark · 24-03-2020 10:15pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Hopefully

I'll be honest and say I enjoyed them myself.

But I think - the argument was won (here), that it wasn't a sustainable model for golf clubs in Ireland. Basically was just below cost selling.

Golfgraffix · 24-03-2020 10:32pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Look - we are in a bloody crash (again :mad:) and we are going to enter a cycle of bargain basement golf. It will be like the NAMA years golf again.

30/50 quid for a championship level course. Watch this space.

Membership will fall off fairly quick. As already seen here.

I dont think so, not if we get over this in a few months.

charlieIRL · 24-03-2020 10:32pm

finglashoop wrote: »

Same for me. My wifes job is closed but my work is safe enough for now. So as long as i can afford it ill keep paying

My wife is self employed and had to close her business temporarily 10 days ago. Not easy times ahead unfortunately.

blindside88 · 24-03-2020 10:33pm

I’ve paid my membership up front from the year but did see an email from the club yesterday advising that a number members are yet to pay and their membership will be cancelled if not paid by the end of the month. I imagine a large number of these will now not pay. I’ve also paid my gym membership up front and they have advised that they are freezing all membership until they reopen. It would be nice to think that the golf club would do the same but I imagine they would not be able to afford to do so.

downthemiddle · 24-03-2020 11:41pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Are you serious ?

You consider weather when paying your sub :eek:

I accept it depends on the type of club. But very surprised at the pace people willing to even consider this.

I accept people are losing jobs etc and it is an emotional time.

But , I'll be paying everything - even my gym and let them come up with a proposal over the next 2/3 months.

I sense there were some of the actions that have been taken, that have been a bit Irish, a bit opportunistic.

We are coming off the back of 6/7 years a fairly substantial economic growth and the speed of let offs and style is extraordinary.

Anyway - support your club if you can, thick and thin.

There are people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

CalamariFritti · 24-03-2020 11:48pm

Clubs will feel the pinch if some folks will be looking for a reduction. Most clubs won't have much spare cash if any and 3 or 4 weeks without open or regular competitions and green fees will sting alone. Never mind people cancelling their direct debits.

I'm pissed off with what I think is an overreaction by the GUI but I will have to support my club.

Of course if this goes on for the whole year then other solutions will have to be found.

Golfhead65 · 25-03-2020 12:11am

Somewhere on this thread The Puppet has gone to ground and The Puppet master has come out..

Mushy · 25-03-2020 9:39am

I'll continue my DD, not that I've gotten to play this year and wouldn't for the foreseeable. I do think many will cancel them, and club could go under if it goes on for so long.

frink · 25-03-2020 9:44am

I have paid sub in full in February but if it was via DD I would continue to pay the fees regardless. I'm fortunate to be still earning during this time but if I was suddenly out of work, I might have a different view.

I would hope that they can manage the cash flow successfully to allow for some level of discount in the 2021 subscription.

the greatest game · 25-03-2020 9:45am

Last week in our own club
It was bedlam - seniors especially and lots of juniors
Monday and Tuesday this week it had levelled off and the seniors stayed at home
- can not see why single player golf is not permitted ?
GUi way to fast out yesterday evening
This will close many courses

Are there any courses that will stay open not affiliated to GUI ?

Wichita Lineman · 25-03-2020 10:06am

slave1 wrote: »

This is going to be a biggie, what with the weather I have not played my home course this yr, think I played it once since November, it could be months before the courses are open again, membership is not exactly short change and pretty much everyone I know bar 2 lads have not paid subs for 2020 yet

I've played 'our' course 21 times since November so it was hardly the weather that kept you away every week.

We closed as of today in line with GUI / ILGU recommendations and I can clearly see it's nothing to do with what the clubs were doing it's purely down to efforts to restrict movement of people. It's very disappointing but there are far more serious things going on. People are losing their lives and their jobs. Hopefully we will all still be there on the other side.

BigChap1759 · 25-03-2020 10:11am

Our lot have said they will give us credit on our gui card to cover a pro-rata refund from 1st-19th April. Better than nothing but not sure where they got those dates when they shut on 24th March??

25-03-2020 10:16am

Our club is struggling a bit. I have paid already and wont be looking for refund. But plenty haven't paid yet and probably won't. So things could get bad for clubs like that.

GreeBo · 25-03-2020 10:28am

dan_ep82 wrote: »

If it's possible to get a holiday similar to the mortgages and just start later in the year I won't have a problem paying to keep it open. It will mean the courses may need to secure funding in the mean time which might not be possible for all clubs.

Why would you expect a payment holiday? What expenses have disappeared from your course while you are not playing?

GreeBo · 25-03-2020 10:33am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

You owe your club nothing, fair enough support it if you like but if there's a number of clubs in your area it's a buyers market.

Trust me if you "support" your club for years and years and something happens that you can't pay the sub they won't be long showing you the door. I've seen it first hand. Like car insurance it pays to shop around.

I've paid upfront already though, the course will be closed for the foreseeable. Hard to know what happens next.

I guess like members, there are some clubs we can do without.

My club has never had an issue with understanding someones personal circumstances and accommodating them wherever possible. A bit like your bank, if you actually contact them they are understanding, if you just dont pay and go radio silence, what else are they to do other than assume you are done?

Rikand · 25-03-2020 10:38am

Big time over reaction by the GUI. Golf always considered one of the most low risk things you could do.

We cant golf, but the streets are still thronged with people walking. Theres far greater social distancing on the golf course.

GUI dropped a turd big time on this one

GreeBo · 25-03-2020 10:40am

Rikand wrote: »

Big time over reaction by the GUI. Golf always considered one of the most low risk things you could do.

We cant golf, but the streets are still thronged with people walking. Theres far greater social distancing on the golf course.

GUI dropped a turd big time on this one

Perhaps golf is low risk, but the risk profile of the majority of players is very high, so its a balance between the two.

davegilly · 25-03-2020 10:41am

the greatest game wrote: »

- can not see why single player golf is not permitted ?

Because of the morons we have in society. Who cannot or will not do simply what is asked of them.

My local O'Brien's, up to the day before yesterday, had people in groups of 3 and 4 sitting at tables in the cafe. These people are the reason everything has to close.

Rikand · 25-03-2020 10:48am

GreeBo wrote: »

Perhaps golf is low risk, but the risk profile of the majority of players is very high, so its a balance between the two.

That's a good point.

Just ban the over 60s then

the.red.baron · 25-03-2020 10:55am

GreeBo wrote: »

I guess like members, there are some clubs we can do without.

My club has never had an issue with understanding someones personal circumstances and accommodating them wherever possible. A bit like your bank, if you actually contact them they are understanding, if you just dont pay and go radio silence, what else are they to do other than assume you are done?

great what club is it? I want to join but I won't be able to pay this year as moneys a bit tight, I'm sure they will understand, maybe next year

this will go on and on, there may be no golf this year, that's what people are looking at

paulanthony · 25-03-2020 10:55am

Members should hold fire before cancelling direct debits and give clubs a chance to consider the circumstances. You would hope that clubs can cut their costs a bit and reduce fees in order to break even over the next few months, like a lot of other businesses are doing. Obviously the course will need to be maintained so staff will be needed for this, but may be able to reduce time as there will be no traffic on the course.

The government schemes will be there to hopefully make up some of the wages shortfall for other staff members who may not have work if the clubhouse is closed.

There may then also be other ways to cut some costs in the short term (eg mortgage holidays) and lower fees by 50% (or something) and allow the club to survive and be there at the end of this. Our creche has done something similar - cut costs, negotiated with landlords etc and are charging 30% of fees while shut. Obviously its annoying to pay for "nothing" but by paying (as we could cancel now) you ensure that the staff keep their jobs/pay and the service is there when we get back to normal.

Both the clubs and the members have to play their parts and of both can meet somewhere in the middle hopefully they can get through it.

blackwhite · 25-03-2020 10:57am

Depends on the circumstances.

Ultimately, if it's a members-owned and operated club then you are paying for an annual stake in the club and the sub is your contribution to the costs of the club; it's not simply paying for a service to be provided.
If it's possible for the club to scale back operating costs when closed to the extent to permit some form of rebate/deferral for members then that's great - but I'd imagine those circumstances will be very few and far between considering the green fee, competition fee and society income streams that will be lost.

The argument is different if you're a "member" at a privately-owned course. In those cases your membership is really just a case of paying a fee to be allowed access the facilities. There's a very strong argument that any suspension of that access should mean entitlement to fees being suspended.

Member-operated clubs which are located on a privately-owned course becomes another one again. If they can get the course owner to suspend rental payments for the land then there's possibly an argument for some of that saving to be passed to members, but the club itself will still likely have it's running costs to cover to maintain the course.

GreeBo · 25-03-2020 10:57am

the.red.baron wrote: »

great what club is it? I want to join but I won't be able to pay this year as moneys a bit tight, I'm sure they will understand, maybe next year

this will go on and on, there may be no golf this year, that's what people are looking at

They would understand if you were a member, but you are not, so they wont care.:rolleyes:

the.red.baron · 25-03-2020 11:02am

GreeBo wrote: »

They would understand if you were a member, but you are not, so they wont care.:rolleyes:

Is it an imaginary one?

how many people do you think are out there playing who aren't paid up

I'd say zero is the answer, I bet you don't know any

GreeBo · 25-03-2020 11:12am

the.red.baron wrote: »

Is it an imaginary one?

how many people do you think are out there playing who aren't paid up

I'd say zero is the answer, I bet you don't know any

There is a huge difference between being allowed to play versus being allowed to remain a member if you are not paying your subs.

What do you do about Club Membership fees if courses are closed

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