Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

Padraig Mor · 20-03-2020 6:01pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Michael O Leary announced today all staff including himself are taking a 50% pay cut .
Its easy for him on a Million a year down to 500K but to be cutting someone on 26K down to 13K a year is a lot different , surely those earning over 100K should take a greater cut than those earning just above minimum wage cabin crew etc.

The company have 4 Billion in cash, surely they could pay their wages for a few weeks. Just more keep the small amount of rich superrich rich and drive the poor into the ground .

Oh stop moaning. The cabin crew will be getting money for nothing presumably. I'd imagine O'Leary will be working his hole off for the next few months.

purifol0 · 20-03-2020 6:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of us in the public service are working very hard trying to keep the health service going and you know..... stop people from dying. As far as I'm aware, everybody in the public sector is working in one form or another.

Nurses were on strike just a few months ago were they not. For more money wasn't it? And please don't act like the HSE is a bastion of highly performant worker efficiency. The union you are prob a member of makes damn sure it can't be.

The stark reality is if the country cannot afford to pay you on the salaries and pensions you currently enjoy why not cut them in line with what in can afford. After all it was "benchmarking" during the Celtic Tiger that increased the salaries - why no "benchmarking" during the recession eh?

20-03-2020 6:33pm

purifol0 wrote: »

Nurses were on strike just a few months ago were they not. For more money wasn't it? And please don't act like the HSE is a bastion of highly performant worker efficiency. The union you are prob a member of makes damn sure it can't be.

The stark reality is if the country cannot afford to pay you on the salaries and pensions you currently enjoy why not cut them in line with what in can afford. After all it was "benchmarking" during the Celtic Tiger that increased the salaries - why no "benchmarking" during the recession eh?

I could earn far more money in the private sector (so in reality, I'm saving the HSE money). So in your situation, the HSE should actually increase my wage (which I wouldn't mind at all)

purifol0 · 20-03-2020 6:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I could earn far more money in the private sector (so in reality, I'm saving the HSE money). So in your situation, the HSE should actually increase my wage (which I wouldn't mind at all)

Prove it! Go and join the private sector.

In addition, if that were true why stay put? If what they are paying you now keeps you from moving job, then by definition they are paying you enough.

And when you say the private sector - which one? Ours or say Australia's?
Because I think its a bit rich that we tax payers pay to train staff that don't work here. Don't you think?

You never mentioned if you were a PS union member, Care to enlighten?

0lddog · 20-03-2020 7:02pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Michael O Leary announced today all staff including himself are taking a 50% pay cut .
Its easy for him on a Million a year down to 500K but to be cutting someone on 26K down to 13K a year is a lot different , surely those earning over 100K should take a greater cut than those earning just above minimum wage cabin crew etc.

The company have 4 Billion in cash, surely they could pay their wages for a few weeks. Just more keep the small amount of rich superrich rich and drive the poor into the ground .

Luas Simon, would you prefer that the staff were treated the way Qantas, SAS and others do it ?

https://simpleflying.com/sas-operation-suspension/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-19/qantas-has-just-stood-down-20000-staff.-how-can-they-do-that/12069964

( i.e. Bye Bye now. No job here for you )

LuasSimon · 20-03-2020 7:19pm

0lddog wrote: »

Luas Simon, would you prefer that the staff were treated the way Qantas, SAS and others do it ?

https://simpleflying.com/sas-operation-suspension/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-19/qantas-has-just-stood-down-20000-staff.-how-can-they-do-that/12069964

( i.e. Bye Bye now. No job here for you

Teachers can sit at home on full pay but poor cabin crew of Ryanair on buttons have it halved .

Same old old Ireland , look after the rich and public servants.

Salary Negotiator · 20-03-2020 7:22pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Teachers can sit at home on full pay but poor cabin crew of Ryanair on buttons have it halved .

Same old old Ireland , look after the rich and public servants.

Teachers are working, I doubt cabin crew are.

purifol0 · 20-03-2020 7:29pm

A real issue is that while we can see how much cash Ryanair has because its owned by shareholders, there's plenty of Irish companies doing VERY well for themselves but since they are privately owned their employees can be kept in the dark about this.

Again govt should just legislate for open books. This would also give prospective employees a better expectation of how much to ask for in salary negotiations.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 20-03-2020 7:30pm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Teachers are working, I doubt cabin crew are.

Some teachers are.

Some aren't.

0lddog · 20-03-2020 7:31pm

@LuasSimon, read my post 32 again. Its about what other airlines are doing ( SAS, QANTAS et al ). Would you have Ryanair layoff its staff rather than a 50% cut in pay for them ?

Uncle Pierre · 20-03-2020 8:12pm

Wondering at this stage if this is a thread for people with a chip on their shoulders about Ryanair, or a chip on their shoulders about the public sector, many of whom are working harder than ever to deal with this crisis. I'm not just talking about those who are normally on the front line anyway, but also civil servants in the roles that are usually dismissed as "handy numbers". If they haven't been redeployed yet to help with contact tracing, social welfare application processing, etc., then they're taking on the duties of colleagues who have left their usual roles to take on those tasks.

Either way, it's a thread for people with chips on their shoulders. So I'm out.

Beasty · 20-03-2020 8:31pm

Thread merged - this is an employment/employer issue, not just a Ryanair-slagging topic

20-03-2020 8:56pm

Half pay for most of them is as good as no job. They only want people to quit.

Allinall · 20-03-2020 8:59pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Half pay for most of them is as good as no job. They only want people to quit.

That’s not the way things work.

20-03-2020 9:00pm

Allinall wrote: »

That’s not the way things work.

It is in reality rather than on paper though. I know very little of boards live there though.

wazzer1 · 20-03-2020 11:58pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It's for April and May. Flying staff won't be working. Staff are getting full pay for March despite not working for a lot of it.

It's important that executive staff are working full time. Many admin grades will be working full time while others will not be working. Quiet a few pilots will be doi g training courses during the downtime to qualify on alternate airplane types.

The cabin crew though will be off work with 50% pay.

AFAIK in their head office alot of the roles are being split into shifts, so people will only be working half the time they usually are

Water John · 21-03-2020 12:34am

Know of a pharma co, that has split its staff. One half on site the other half working from home. If any of the on site staff get Covid 19 they will swap the staff.

21-03-2020 12:41am

purifol0 wrote: »

The stark reality is if the country cannot afford to pay you on the salaries and pensions you currently enjoy why not cut them in line with what in can afford. After all it was "benchmarking" during the Celtic Tiger that increased the salaries - why no "benchmarking" during the recession eh?

Yawn

21-03-2020 12:50am

purifol0 wrote: »

Prove it! Go and join the private sector.

In addition, if that were true why stay put? If what they are paying you now keeps you from moving job, then by definition they are paying you enough.

And when you say the private sector - which one? Ours or say Australia's?
Because I think its a bit rich that we tax payers pay to train staff that don't work here. Don't you think?

You never mentioned if you were a PS union member, Care to enlighten?

Sorry. I was busy doing hospital work. Just home. I'm not a union member. I work in hospital because I enjoy helping people. I'm trying to improve patient safety in the HSE. It's work that I find interesting.

I was never somebody who was motivated by money. I am a big believer in working for the greater good. I deal with mostly socially disadvantaged people (and I hope I make some difference in their lives).

I don't understand the connection to Australia. Surely, an accountant could move to Australia and work privately and you could make the same argument.

purifol0 · 21-03-2020 2:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry. I was busy doing hospital work. Just home. I'm not a union member. I work in hospital because I enjoy helping people. I'm trying to improve patient safety in the HSE. It's work that I find interesting.

I was never somebody who was motivated by money. I am a big believer in working for the greater good. I deal with mostly socially disadvantaged people (and I hope I make some difference in their lives).

I don't understand the connection to Australia. Surely, an accountant could move to Australia and work privately and you could make the same argument.

Wait are you saying you a re a full time HSE employee. Like with a harp on your payslip? The HSE has 100K direct employees and is nealry 100% unionised. This would make you an outlier.

Accountants are not trained in the public sector to work in the public sector. and work seriously long hours for big firms to pass their exams. In the same vein apprentices learning trades work for private companies for years before qualifying.

Student Nurses get paid 14K courtesy the tax payer to do their degree.

Mad_maxx · 21-03-2020 12:02pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

No fear of the shareholders they are up plenty over the past few years .
They might have to cutback to 5 foreign holidays a year when this virus passes .

Ryanair shares are at 2014 levels

Sam the Sham · 21-03-2020 2:34pm

The President of UCD sent an email to all staff on 18 March that includes this passage (my emphasis):

While the imposition of social distancing measures by the government is necessary to slow down the spread of this virus, so that the rate at which people contract the virus remains within the capacity of our health system to deal with, I would like to echo the expert advice that COVID-19 presents very little personal danger to the great majority of our employees and students, and for healthy people of working age is unlikely to be more severe than a winter cold or ‘flu.

As a new virus, with no underlying immunity, it is impossible to know how much of the population will suffer from COVID-19, but it could be anywhere from 20% to 60%. The current measures are being put in place, not because the disease is a significant threat to healthy individuals, but because it has a disproportionate impact on the elderly and those with certain underlying medical conditions, and for those individuals, survival is greatly enhanced with access to appropriate medical care.

He goes on to encourage staff to continue servicing the campus and makes clear that his concern is largely with international students and the fees they bring.

Question: is this simply irresponsible and unscientific claptrap from the head of our largest university, given the latest reports (many published in newspapers on the very day he was writing) about percentage of hospitalisations among young adults? Or is he making sense?

James 007 · 21-03-2020 3:15pm

timhenn wrote: »

Do you know if there's anything that can be done about a company who are putting employees and their families at risk during this crisis? They have the ability to get all their employees to work from home. They have decided only experienced staff will work from home while everyone else will have to work from the office. This is not a temporary measure but it's their stated position for the duration of the crisis.
The company is in Dublin and the majority of staff have to get public transport into work. There are less people going on public transport but still the risk is bigger than staying at home. An employee lives in the same house as a relative who returned from working in Italy. The relative must self isolate but the employee of this company was told to attend work.
Many of the staff live at home with their parents, the chances of passing this virus onto them has been increased hugely because of the stance this company has taken. There's no law against what they're doing but is there any way to persuade this company to do the right thing?

Yes, but its the employees choice how they get to and from work. So, its not the employer putting your relatives at risk, it is yourself. Your employer would probably say, drive to work, drive home.

Now lets put in a different way, because this is some that has been playing on my mind. If someone does pick up symptoms at work & they don't have transport. In work here we have an isolation unit, there they can call a relative to pick them up, would this be the norm in a lot of companies, because no one would like to drop them home. Any thoughts on this.

timhenn · 21-03-2020 3:18pm

James 007 wrote: »

Yes, but its the employees choice how they get to and from work. So, its not the employer putting your relatives at risk, it is yourself. Your employer would probably say, drive to work, drive home.

Now lets put in a different way, because this is some that has been playing on my mind. If someone does pick up symptoms at work & they don't have transport. In work here we have an isolation unit, there they can call a relative to pick them up, would this be the norm in a lot of companies, because no one would like to drop them home. Any thoughts on this.

They don't have a car, want them to cycle 50 miles in and out?

No one would pick it up in work if the company had the capabilities to have people working from home and they cared about their staff.

golfball37 · 21-03-2020 3:49pm

My own employers attitude to the virus has been appalling, all about protecting perks of top brass and using the opportunity to screw ordinary workers who are loyal and diligent. Health concerns are not entertained at all. If anyone was hiring out there I’d be off on principle but there’s fat chance sadly.

21-03-2020 4:07pm

My sister's employer is the same. Non essential office work, but the senior people are allowed to work from home while all of the support staff have to go in. They can't maintain social distancing when people work at desks in close proximity to each other. It's disgraceful but people are afraid to speak up as there's a recession coming and they don't want to rock the boat. The government should follow France's lead and order all non essential offices to close.

stinkbomb · 21-03-2020 5:05pm

James 007 wrote: »

Yes, but its the employees choice how they get to and from work. So, its not the employer putting your relatives at risk, it is yourself. Your employer would probably say, drive to work, drive home.

.

Employer can say drive to work all they like but its not much use if you don't have a car! Or you do, but have nowhere to park at work....

21-03-2020 5:08pm

purifol0 wrote: »

Wait are you saying you a re a full time HSE employee. Like with a harp on your payslip? The HSE has 100K direct employees and is nealry 100% unionised. This would make you an outlier.

Accountants are not trained in the public sector to work in the public sector. and work seriously long hours for big firms to pass their exams. In the same vein apprentices learning trades work for private companies for years before qualifying.

Student Nurses get paid 14K courtesy the tax payer to do their degree.

Yes. I am employed by the HSE. You do realise you don't have to be part of a union to work here. You do know that there are accountants that work for the HSE?

I guess it's going to really annoy you when they approve mass overtime in the coming weeks?

Nurses get paid 14000 euro for their intern year. I got paid roughly 30000 euros for my intern year. I don't really understand the problem. The pay is terrible for nurses in their intern year.

Love that you are having a pop at student nurses. Bet you wouldn't say that publically if your name was attached to your boards ID.

James 007 · 21-03-2020 5:24pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Employer can say drive to work all they like but its not much use if you don't have a car! Or you do, but have nowhere to park at work....

Regardless to the excuse, this will always be the employees problem/choice not the employers. The employee is putting their life at risk & others if they take public transport.

James 007 · 21-03-2020 5:34pm

Flying Fox wrote: »

My sister's employer is the same. Non essential office work, but the senior people are allowed to work from home while all of the support staff have to go in. They can't maintain social distancing when people work at desks in close proximity to each other. It's disgraceful but people are afraid to speak up as there's a recession coming and they don't want to rock the boat. The government should follow France's lead and order all non essential offices to close.

Now this is a different scenario, I would be inclined to have all employees take a stance on this one, or notify the Health & Safety Authority/HSE, take photos, can some employees phone in sick, could they say they have the symptoms etc, this is not right, if no other option draft up a one page document with photos & have all employees sign it & hand pass to HR & do the same by e-mail. If no other progress, stop work & take a stance outside the building with signs...……….all 2 metres apart when on strike. Now see who has the upper hand, your health comes first & risking passing it onto others including your relatives could be an issue. I understand everyone needs their jobs, but I would take a stance internally first with mgt & HR

timhenn · 21-03-2020 5:37pm

James 007 wrote: »

Regardless to the excuse, this will always be the employees problem/choice not the employers. The employee is putting their life at risk & others if they take public transport.

No, the employer is putting the employees life at risk by forcing them to come into the office for work that can be done at home!

trumptheman · 21-03-2020 6:16pm

If an employer forced me to come into the office when they have the setup to be able to work from home I'd be preparing my C.V. or telling them I'm working from home and can fire me if they want.

Obviously the above depends on your own circumstances.

21-03-2020 6:28pm

Tell the boss you need them in for an urgent issue. Create said issue if needs be.

21-03-2020 7:03pm

James 007 wrote: »

Now this is a different scenario, I would be inclined to have all employees take a stance on this one, or notify the Health & Safety Authority/HSE, take photos, can some employees phone in sick, could they say they have the symptoms etc, this is not right, if no other option draft up a one page document with photos & have all employees sign it & hand pass to HR & do the same by e-mail. If no other progress, stop work & take a stance outside the building with signs...……….all 2 metres apart when on strike. Now see who has the upper hand, your health comes first & risking passing it onto others including your relatives could be an issue. I understand everyone needs their jobs, but I would take a stance internally first with mgt & HR

I agree with you, but you need everyone on board for that approach to work, and most are afraid to 'cause trouble'. It's an Irish office of an American firm and they really don't give a toss about the staff.

It will come back to bite them when the economy recovers and people remember how they were treated at this time.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 21-03-2020 11:52pm

Does anyone know if the HSA will ever shut them down or will we have to work away until we all just picked off?
Toilets were always bad but now they have an added risk.
Then theres working with lads with no english with a dubious travel history.
Seems to me sites are a ticking time bomb.

Beasty · 22-03-2020 12:18am

Threads merged

nthclare · 22-03-2020 12:28am

There's a lot of pricks holding onto clerical, marketing and event management during this crisis and getting rid of the maintenance and cleaning staff.

This will bite them hard, my cousins working in one company in particular who laid off all the staff who could distance themselves easily because they're groundsmen, gardener's and maintenance and cleaning staff.

The lowest rung paid people in the ladder some who've given 30 years service , who should be keeping a place ticking over, because the grass, shrubs, hedges and weeds ain't going to stop growing.

But no fck the peasants we'll all stick together in our clerical, marketing and events section.
Some who aren't in the company a year.

But let's send out the grounds staff, maintenance and cleaning staff a letter explaining they're all being laid off in 4 days due to us not being able to afford to pay them.

But yet we made a few million profit last year, that'll keep us covered for the foreseeable future...

timhenn · 22-03-2020 12:32am

nthclare wrote: »

There's a lot of pricks holding onto clerical, marketing and event management during this crisis and getting rid of the maintenance and cleaning staff.

This will bite them hard, my cousins working in one company in particular who laid off all the staff who could distance themselves easily because they're groundsmen, gardener's and maintenance and cleaning staff.

The lowest rung paid people in the ladder some who've given 30 years service , who should be keeping a place ticking over, because the grass, shrubs, hedges and weeds ain't going to stop growing.

But no fck the peasants we'll all stick together in our clerical, marketing and events section.
Some who aren't in the company a year.

But let's send out the grounds staff, maintenance and cleaning staff a letter explaining they're all being laid off in 4 days due to us not being able to afford to pay them.

But yet we made a few million profit last year, that'll keep us covered for the foreseeable future...

You learn a lot about people in a crisis and you also learn a lot about scummy companies. This should teach everyone a lesson. Do the bare minimum in your jobs. When the sh1t hits the fan they won't give a sh1t about you so you shouldn't give a sh1t about them and their profits.

Manach · 22-03-2020 12:37am

At this stage, glad I can WFH. Saying that, naturally have sympathy for all those laid off due to temporary closures of various businesses.

je551e · 22-03-2020 12:51am

What do you think about your boss expecting you to work days for free?

Macker1 · 22-03-2020 12:58am

Water John wrote: »

Know of a pharma co, that has split its staff. One half on site the other half working from home. If any of the on site staff get Covid 19 they will swap the staff.

Just out of curiosity can you say what company this is. Just to be clear I work in the pharma industry and we are flat out trying to maintain operations as medication still has to be manufactured and supplied to patients. Most non-essential staff are working from home with the emphasis of reducing footfall on site to reduce the risks for the people that support manufacturing and those in Production Operations. At the first hint of an issue people are asked to self-isolate at home for 14 days. Social Distancing and Contract Tracing on-site was implemented without any delays.

Its still tough to keep it going but a lot of people are in similar or worse situations so its a small price to pay to help things along.

martin101 · 22-03-2020 1:07am

In my job, some people (the favourites) where given laptops to work from home. The usual group thats always looked after one way or another. The rest of us have to come into work for non essential office work. I have been off the last two weeks. Just on annual leave doing work at home. My boss asked me to text him tomorrow night to say I'm ok for work Monday and in no way sick. Seeing as I've been off the last two weeks. I've had my dad onto me this evening pleading with me not to go to work as he fears I will get it. Which I think I will too. It's a big company with many staff very close together. I'm thinking I might text tomorrow and say I won't be coming it. Was going to say I don't feel well but I hate lying and it's tempting faith. I do have an underlying condition but I'm young. Think my dad is just worried about me. So much so he said he will pay whatever I get per week to stay off. Not that I would take it. I don't know what to do. On the other hand I think my health is more important than a job.

weldoninhio · 22-03-2020 1:10am

purifol0 wrote: »

Wait are you saying you a re a full time HSE employee. Like with a harp on your payslip? The HSE has 100K direct employees and is nealry 100% unionised. This would make you an outlier.

Accountants are not trained in the public sector to work in the public sector. and work seriously long hours for big firms to pass their exams. In the same vein apprentices learning trades work for private companies for years before qualifying.

Student Nurses get paid 14K courtesy the tax payer to do their degree.

I work for the HSE and I’m not in a union. Been here 5 years and never even approached to join one.

22-03-2020 11:35am

martin101 wrote: »

In my job, some people (the favourites) where given laptops to work from home. The usual group thats always looked after one way or another. The rest of us have to come into work for non essential office work. I have been off the last two weeks. Just on annual leave doing work at home. My boss asked me to text him tomorrow night to say I'm ok for work Monday and in no way sick. Seeing as I've been off the last two weeks. I've had my dad onto me this evening pleading with me not to go to work as he fears I will get it. Which I think I will too. It's a big company with many staff very close together. I'm thinking I might text tomorrow and say I won't be coming it. Was going to say I don't feel well but I hate lying and it's tempting faith. I do have an underlying condition but I'm young. Think my dad is just worried about me. So much so he said he will pay whatever I get per week to stay off. Not that I would take it. I don't know what to do. On the other hand I think my health is more important than a job.

Your health is more important. Tell your boss that you have an underlying condition and it's not safe for you to come in given the government's advice. Say you're more than happy to work from home if they send you a laptop, but you can't go to the office due to the numbers of people there and the lack of social distancing.

dan1895 · 22-03-2020 1:45pm

Flying Fox wrote: »

Your health is more important. Tell your boss that you have an underlying condition and it's not safe for you to come in given the government's advice. Say you're more than happy to work from home if they send you a laptop, but you can't go to the office due to the numbers of people there and the lack of social distancing.

My work are asking for proof of these underlying health conditions which is a bit of a dicky thing to do in the circumstances

22-03-2020 1:47pm

dan1895 wrote: »

My work are asking for proof of these underlying health conditions which is a bit of a dicky thing to do in the circumstances

There’s a good few people in a bad way with this and have no underlying conditions. Look at that Warrenpoint soccer player who was on oxygen for over a week and isn’t even 30 years of age yet.

Kerry25x · 22-03-2020 1:58pm

purifol0 wrote: »

Student Nurses get paid 14K courtesy the tax payer to do their degree.

Seriously? No they do not, the get paid for their internship in 4th year when they're counted as part of the workforce providing a vital service. We would not cope without them. These are same nurse interns who are out right now on the front lines at the very beginning of their careers preparing for a massive healthcare crisis. Are you honestly suggesting they should work for free?

martin101 · 22-03-2020 5:00pm

If we do eventually go into full lockdown. Then what will stay open? Will it just be some shops, chemists and some transport? Or anything else?

harr · 22-03-2020 5:04pm

martin101 wrote: »

If we do eventually go into full lockdown. Then what will stay open? Will it just be some shops, chemists and some transport? Or anything else?

Supermarkets , chemists , petrol stations , banks and post offices.. probably what is needed.
Not much more open around these parts anyway

Richard Hillman · 22-03-2020 5:20pm

I am currently on unpaid leave until the company closes and I cant access social welfare (I work in non essential Retail). They are refusing to close because the business is still busy with dopey shoppers that think they're immune from all of this. They will not close until the Irish government or garda shut them down. The workplace alone has 300+ employees.

Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

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