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Looking for options if sales collapse due to Coronavirus.

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    Do you mean €797+€203?

    Yes that's it. You reduce the normal gross by €203 and pay that under a different category. This way you can keep track of the €203s your will be claiming as an Employer refund.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Is "back to square one" good or bad news? that is, is it back to "normal" (or something approaching normal) or "back to the stone age" that'll take years to recover from?

    Please say it's the former! I really need some positive news right now!

    It's the former, tourism is still lagging however as its only hitting the West n Australia now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    jos28 wrote: »
    Yes that's it. You reduce the normal gross by €203 and pay that under a different category. This way you can keep track of the €203s your will be claiming as an Employer refund.

    I have since heard the following (from a source who heard it from a not particularly senior source in the Revenue but the reason i report it is that it makes sense).

    The Revenue anticipate that you will pay out this 203 euros per employee to your staff, but will not pay your VAT and PREM liabilities to the Revenue. So in a few months time, say September (the date mentioned), you will be owed 203 euros x 20 weeks = 4060 euros per employee or thereabouts that you have paid out as COVID19 payments. At that point they will offset the COVID19 money paid against your VAT/PREM liability.

    From this I infer the following.

    If you need cash fast to pay your employees, you will be able to get it (through mechanism not yet explained, though you could imagine it will be something like a VAT refund in a month where your VAT out is greater than your VAT in). But to get this, it is likely that your VAT and PREM returns will need to be fully in order, and you will need to be owed money taking VAT and PREM accruals into account.

    As I say all the above is qualified as i have stated. The first bit is a plausible story relayed to me. The second is my inference from it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    .
    Now, this is

    ??? The suspense is killing me........ :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    ??? The suspense is killing me........ :D

    I will try to think of a sequel for tomorrow. I am already on speculation based on rumour and I honestly don’t know how much more I can get out of these barrels.

    Hopefully we will have more actual information by Wednesday. I am reliably informed that blood is being sweated even at this hour in government departments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    I am reliably informed that blood is being sweated even at this hour in government departments.


    I have to say - on a serious note - I'm really impressed by the level of work being done by the govt., civil service and state agencies. The volume of work behind what's being produced at very short notice must be absolutely Trojan. They get precious little credit at the best of times, but they're really stepping up to the plate at the worst of times.

    Maybe it’s down to us not actually having a government? Whatever it is, it’s a stark contrast to the flat-footedness in the UK.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I heard they are looking at banks helping with these payments where they will in turn be reimbursed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28



    I have to say - on a serious note - I'm really impressed by the level of work being done by the govt., civil service and state agencies. The volume of work behind what's being produced at very short notice must be absolutely Trojan. They get precious little credit at the best of times, but they're really stepping up to the plate at the worst of times.

    Maybe it’s down to us not actually having a government? Whatever it is, it’s a stark contrast to the flat-footedness in the UK.

    Well said, it must be manic in most Government offices at the moment. I know the SW IT teams were working through the night. Staff have been drafted in from quieter departments to work in the busier ones. Full credit due to our Government, which is not something we hear very often.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    There's going to be a lot of small local retailers looking for delivery options soon - opportunity for someone laid off or going out of business, starting a local delivery service of some kind.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    There are two separate things:

    1. If you lay someone off, they make their claim for immediate assistance using the single-page form.

    2. The government doesn't want you to lay people off (and indeed, laying people off would have an implication in relation to redundancy in ordinary times). They want you to instead keep the person on and pay the person 203 euros or more.

    This is a time to support people, if you can. It's not just financial support. It's emotional support and leadership.

    Further details of this have just been announced:

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/news/articles/employer-covid-19-refund-scheme.aspx

    One thing that concerns me, though, the part that says: “No other payment amounts are made by the employer to the employee” This would seem to indicate it is not possible to pay more than the €203 to anyone on the scheme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    jos28 wrote: »
    We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
    I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

    I realise this means that employee's net pay will be higher than normal but your P30 payment will be reduced accordingly. If we decide to only pay the €203 per employee next week, they will get the full amount into their hand as they would if they were signing on directly at their Intreo Office.
    I hope that makes sense.

    That doesn't seem to match what has just been anounced, in particular the ability to pay more that the €203.

    See:

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/news/artic...nd-scheme.aspx

    See in particular the part that says: “No other payment amounts are made by the employer to the employee” This would seem to indicate it is not possible to pay more than the €203 to anyone on the scheme.

    Do you know where it might be possible to get this clarified? I would imagine the normal helplines etc. are completely swamped.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    That doesn't seem to match what has just been anounced, in particular the ability to pay more that the €203.

    See:

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/news/artic...nd-scheme.aspx

    See in particular the part that says: “No other payment amounts are made by the employer to the employee” This would seem to indicate it is not possible to pay more than the €203 to anyone on the scheme.

    Do you know where it might be possible to get this clarified? I would imagine the normal helplines etc. are completely swamped.

    I work as an accountant in practice. It is very hard to get clarification on this. I will try my sources in revenue tomorrow and get a definitive answer for us all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    My initial understanding, from a lady in social welfare, was I could only pay the €203. Maybe revenue and Social welfare have not communicated properly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    That completely contradicts what I was told on Monday. I explained in great detail that I was supplementing their pay with the €203 and they confirmed that was ok. I know they recorded the call. I've already submitted this payroll and will have to try and contact them tomorrow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    My initial understanding, from a lady in social welfare, was I could only pay the €203. Maybe revenue and Social welfare have not communicated properly.

    That would be right as it's unemployment benefit and technically they should be available for work.

    Accountants will find work arounds. Where I work we chatted with staff and those with the biggest financial commitments are being prioritised for remaining.

    Those with less financial pressure are being temporarily laid off but being given additional holiday pay that effectively will be a €200 weekly payment.

    It will initially be on a loan basis, then applied off holiday pay gradually when things return to normal and they are back on payroll


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  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Folks, this may seem silly, but I am self employed. However, i really only work for one company (they treat me decently, and in fairness to them they pay me well, but the hours are all over the shop, so taking on other work is tricky, hence almost everything i do is for them).

    I'm practically out of a job as they're no doubt going to go to sleep for a few months. I wonder, would it be possible to request that they hire me for the Covid period as an employee, pay me the 203 per week, and then sack me when they get back up and running again? (so i'd still have an income, maintain my ties with them, etc.)

    As it stands, it looks like the business will just hit the 'resume' button when the covid period ends. I don't think I'd be permanently out of work, just temporarily whilst this is ongoing.

    Is this realistic to ask of them, or would they be getting themselves in trouble by doing it? (i'm not too clued into the employers side of things here, as I work alone and im a fairly tiny one-man outfit in the grand scheme of things).


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    I work as an accountant in practice. It is very hard to get clarification on this. I will try my sources in revenue tomorrow and get a definitive answer for us all.

    Thanks - I'd really appreciate that. I’ve already committed that they would get at least the €203 but I said I hoped it would be more – not a whole lot more as we literally don’t have the cash – but to at least get to part of the way to their previous earnings.

    They're a brilliant team who've show great loyalty and it's killing me I can't repay that even to a small extent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Folks, this may seem silly, but I am self employed. However, i really only work for one company (they treat me decently, and in fairness to them they pay me well, but the hours are all over the shop, so taking on other work is tricky, hence almost everything i do is for them).

    I'm practically out of a job as they're no doubt going to go to sleep for a few months. I wonder, would it be possible to request that they hire me for the Covid period as an employee, pay me the 203 per week, and then sack me when they get back up and running again? (so i'd still have an income, maintain my ties with them, etc.)

    As it stands, it looks like the business will just hit the 'resume' button when the covid period ends. I don't think I'd be permanently out of work, just temporarily whilst this is ongoing.

    Is this realistic to ask of them, or would they be getting themselves in trouble by doing it? (i'm not too clued into the employers side of things here, as I work alone and im a fairly tiny one-man outfit in the grand scheme of things).

    Why?

    You need to fill in the correct form that fits your situation.

    Obviously if you get other work or hours here and there you must inform revenue of this....


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    Darc19 wrote: »
    That would be right as it's unemployment benefit and technically they should be available for work.

    My understanding is that is not the case - the whole point is they are retained on the "payroll" on the basis the expectation is that they will return to work at some point.

    My understanding is that there are two separate schemes:

    - one for people who've been laid off, and will have to find another job and who have to apply for the benefit themselves (50,000 of those and counting)

    - one for people who retain the link with their employer, even though they are not working, with the employer paying them whilst being reimbursed by Revenue to the tune of €203. In this case, the employer organises it, and the employee doesn't have to apply for anything

    or have I completely misunderstood things?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    Folks, this may seem silly, but I am self employed. However, i really only work for one company (they treat me decently, and in fairness to them they pay me well, but the hours are all over the shop, so taking on other work is tricky, hence almost everything i do is for them).

    I'm practically out of a job as they're no doubt going to go to sleep for a few months. I wonder, would it be possible to request that they hire me for the Covid period as an employee, pay me the 203 per week, and then sack me when they get back up and running again? (so i'd still have an income, maintain my ties with them, etc.)

    As it stands, it looks like the business will just hit the 'resume' button when the covid period ends. I don't think I'd be permanently out of work, just temporarily whilst this is ongoing.

    Is this realistic to ask of them, or would they be getting themselves in trouble by doing it? (i'm not too clued into the employers side of things here, as I work alone and im a fairly tiny one-man outfit in the grand scheme of things).

    This is a slippery path to go down because if you are currently a contractor/self employed and then you get put on their books, revenue could judge you to be an employee rather than a contractor for good. This can have important implications if you are claiming business expenses. No idea what your situation is but that is the first thing that jumps out at me.

    Secondly, this payment is not really aimed at the self employed, as far as I can see. So claiming it in this way may appear fraudulent from revenues point of view, and if that were the case, would have consequences for your client.

    There are definitely other negative considerations, I'm not even a tax accountant and I can spot these however. In short, I would advise against it and instead look for help from your bank. It's only 800ish a month, so if you're only out 3/4 months, you're talking about less than 5k. You should be able to finance that amount with a short term loan, especially if you can show that the client will restart trading with you in a few months.


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  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    This is a slippery path to go down because if you are currently a contractor/self employed and then you get put on their books, revenue could judge you to be an employee rather than a contractor for good. This can have important implications if you are claiming business expenses. No idea what your situation is but that is the first thing that jumps out at me.

    Secondly, this payment is not really aimed at the self employed, as far as I can see. So claiming it in this way may appear fraudulent from revenues point of view, and if that were the case, would have consequences for your client.

    There are definitely other negative considerations, I'm not even a tax accountant and I can spot these however. In short, I would advise against it and instead look for help from your bank. It's only 800ish a month, so if you're only out 3/4 months, you're talking about less than 5k. You should be able to finance that amount with a short term loan, especially if you can show that the client will restart trading with you in a few months.




    I'm bringing in just shy of €40k per year (pre-tax) so they're all amounts of money I'd feel going out of my pocket, nonetheless.


    I will stick my name on the coronavirus payment form, and see can I claim that for the 6 weeks. Hopefully by then I'll at least have a better idea what's happening. I've been lumping pretty much every penny I have off a house loan so I've left myself pretty exposed here (my own fault, of course).


    When the 6 weeks of that payment runs it's course, i'll hopefully be either getting ready to get back to work, or i'll, from the look of things, have to close up shop and go with my hat in hand to the social welfare office to become a 'full time mad bastard' for the forseeable ::(


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    In relation to the refund scheme...

    The information at the following has changed:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/612b90-covid-19-information-for-employers/

    On March 15:

    “We are encouraging employers to retain employees where possible, and as a result of these measures the Department is setting up a refund scheme for employers to pay staff which will pay them the €203 per week for each worker who would otherwise have been laid off in a situation where a business has to cease trading due to HSE advice on ‘social distancing’.”

    This now reads:

    “The department has just announced a refund scheme for employers. Under an arrangement developed with Revenue, employers who have to temporarily lay-off staff and who are not in a position to make any wage payment to them, are asked to keep their employees on the payroll and pay them an amount of €203 - the equivalent of the COVID-19 Support Payment.”

    I appreciate the fact that this is all being developed at breakkneck speed and the mechanism to repay through Revenue is completely new and is bound to change in the implementation details, but the actual criteria seemed to have changed. My assumption was that this was for companies who have ceased trading (which we have). The updated version seems to drop this requirement and replace it with an inability to pay. Now strictly speaking, we meet this too: we don't have the cash and what we're doing if we pay them more than the €203 is prioritising staff over creditors (including Revenue, who've agreed to defer PAYE and VAT payments due next week). The idea of topping up was not definitely present in the original wording (at least to my reading of it), as it was too unclear. It's a lot more explicit though in the Revenue description of the scheme.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    My understanding is that is not the case - the whole point is they are retained on the "payroll" on the basis the expectation is that they will return to work at some point.

    My understanding is that there are two separate schemes:

    - one for people who've been laid off, and will have to find another job and who have to apply for the benefit themselves (50,000 of those and counting)

    - one for people who retain the link with their employer, even though they are not working, with the employer paying them whilst being reimbursed by Revenue to the tune of €203. In this case, the employer organises it, and the employee doesn't have to apply for anything

    or have I completely misunderstood things?

    That is exactly as I understood it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/news/articles/employer-covid-19-refund-scheme.aspx


    This is the most up to date revenue posting. I'll try now to get confirmation from revenue on correct interpretation regarding interaction with social welfare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    My understanding is only pay €203. Then within 6 weeks employees must complete Social Welfare application and submit to Welfare if they are entitled to more than the €203 as a result of dependent children etc. I also did what another poster mentioned, top up if you can, the payment to employees by way of a loan. Note can only be operated for employees on payroll from01/02/20 to 15/03/20.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/news/articles/employer-covid-19-refund-scheme.aspx


    This is the most up to date revenue posting. I'll try now to get confirmation from revenue on correct interpretation regarding interaction with social welfare.

    Thanks! You might also ask them about how to access any of this - I don't see the option as described when I log on to ROS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    I also did what another poster mentioned, top up if you can, the payment to employees by way of a loan.

    Did you get some indication it was OK to do this? Even if you did, a loan is very different from pay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    There is no issue with giving any person a loan from revenue point of view.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    Today's update from my dealings with Revenue. The information I was given on Monday was incorrect, they should have told us to hold off making any payments until they had finalised details. In fairness they have been working round the clock to design a scheme that has been thrown at them.
    No other payments can be made by the employer to the employee for the applicable week(s) and all temporarily laid off employees receive the €203 per week.
    The original details given by the Minister on the 6 -1 News regarding pro-rata payments is also incorrect. If any employee works at any stage of the week they do not qualify for the Covid payment. Unfortunately we cannot claim back the Covid payments we made this week. We explored several options such as deducting the value of those €203s from our P30 - no deal.
    Revenue were meeting with the payroll software suppliers today and they are hoping to have updated software available tomorrow.
    I have deleted the submission I made to Revenue, I rolled back our payroll. I am going to run it again after the payroll software has been updated and only put the Covid payments through. The only way I can think of getting round this is to consider the balance of the payments given to staff as a loan and sort it out when normality resumes.
    Myself and Babybuilder were obviously thinking along the same lines.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    Remember this €203 minimum payment is also available to self employed people. I'm new to this posting I'm on the husband's name, but I'll try and get the information I sent out today, regarding self employed people, on here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    Remember this €203 minimum payment is also available to self employed people. I'm new to this posting I'm on the husband's name, but I'll try and get the information I sent out today, regarding self employed people, on here.

    That's correct, but payments can only be made to current employees/self-employed: you must have been on a payroll submission between 1st Feb and 15th March. This may catch out some who don't make regular submissions, though the other scheme should cover them (i.e. the one that's paid directly from DSP).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Remember this €203 minimum payment is also available to self employed people. I'm new to this posting I'm on the husband's name, but I'll try and get the information I sent out today, regarding self employed people, on here.

    Does anybody know what the criteria is if you are self employed? Do you need to cease trading?

    I have a family member whose business has fallen off a cliff, there is still a trickle of sales but nowhere near enough to justify losing out on this payment if it is an option for them. I’ve had a look at the websites but I have t come across what I’m looking for


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    Remember this €203 minimum payment is also available to self employed people. I'm new to this posting I'm on the husband's name, but I'll try and get the information I sent out today, regarding self employed people, on here.

    Below is the information I sent out today:


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    Good report of the issue abot top-up payments:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/employers-who-offer-more-than-state-s-covid-19-payment-will-not-be-refunded-1.4207366

    I'd be slow to criticise too much, as they must have put an incredible amount of work in to get this up and running in any form. I can also understand why it is done - it would be wide open to abuse - but it could be solved (for example, to restrict it to comapnies that have actually stopped trading).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    Good report of the issue abot top-up payments:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/employers-who-offer-more-than-state-s-covid-19-payment-will-not-be-refunded-1.4207366

    I'd be slow to criticise too much, as they must have put an incredible amount of work in to get this up and running in any form. I can also understand why it is done - it would be wide open to abuse - but it could be solved (for example, to restrict it to comapnies that have actually stopped trading).

    I agree about the quick way Revenue have reacted to the curve ball thrown at them. There must have been some very stressful meetings over the past week. Payroll software companies should be releasing updates soon so hopefully that goes smoothly. I have one casual worker on payroll who does an average 17 hours per week, some weeks are full time and other only 1 or days per week. I initially thought I could give him a Pro rata Covid payment but that option is gone. I can't see anything on the Revenue update to say I can't give it, but if I do she would be coming out with more money :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    does anyone know what the situation is for company directors & the covid 19 payment?

    Stopped self employment and started trading through a limited company in the last month and have yet to even pay myself, looking unlikely as the past two weeks have been very slow. Not holding out much hope for any uptake in trade anytime soon with the way things are going.

    Any advice would be appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    jos28 wrote: »
    I initially thought I could give him a Pro rata Covid payment but that option is gone. I can't see anything on the Revenue update to say I can't give it, but if I do she would be coming out with more money :confused:

    I think the reason there's no mention of any pro-rata payment is because it's one of the simplifying aspects: it doesn't matter how many hours were worked before, the only criteria is that they must be laid-off and they must have had a payroll payment submitted between 1st Feb and 15th March. In other words, everyone gets the same amount.

    The catch-all nature of it means it includes those non-EU people on Stamp 2 Visas who normally don’t get any social welfare (even though they pay PRSI – go figure) and part-time people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,732 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    gary550 wrote: »
    does anyone know what the situation is for company directors & the covid 19 payment?

    Stopped self employment and started trading through a limited company in the last month and have yet to even pay myself, looking unlikely as the past two weeks have been very slow. Not holding out much hope for any uptake in trade anytime soon with the way things are going.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Jesus, that’s rough. They’ve only recently relented on benefits for sole traders, there’s never been anything for co. directors unless the company goes down I believe.

    There might be some wriggle room if you read here, ‘some company directors’.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_insurance_prsi/class_S_prsi.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    gary550 wrote: »
    does anyone know what the situation is for company directors & the covid 19 payment?

    Stopped self employment and started trading through a limited company in the last month and have yet to even pay myself, looking unlikely as the past two weeks have been very slow. Not holding out much hope for any uptake in trade anytime soon with the way things are going.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    I would think you'd be fine for the following:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

    That is, apply directly to this as an employee, rather than try and do it through the company and get a refund.

    It'll at least get you something for the next six weeks, until you can sort out if there's some other possibility.

    I note they've updated to clarify that non-EU/EEA people can apply too. They are not entitled to any payment whatsoever normally.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    This document has just been published:

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/employer-covid-refund-scheme.pdf

    Haven't read it all yet, but looks to answer a lot of questions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    Looks like we should hold off running that payroll, could be more changes over the weekend according to the 6pm news


  • Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    I would think you'd be fine for the following:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

    That is, apply directly to this as an employee, rather than try and do it through the company and get a refund.

    It'll at least get you something for the next six weeks, until you can sort out if there's some other possibility.

    I note they've updated to clarify that non-EU/EEA people can apply too. They are not entitled to any payment whatsoever normally.

    Thank you PickYourName,

    I`ll fill out the form and send it in, I would imagine there will be a couple of questions asked as the company address and my address are the same. I`ll update when I hear anything back just in case someone is on the same boat as me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    gary550 wrote: »
    I would imagine there will be a couple of questions asked as the company address and my address are the same.

    That definitely won't raise any issues. Our registered address, used for all revenue correspondance, is our home address, even though we've two retail outlets. There must be thousands of one-person or small companies (and even quite large ones) that are exactly the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Does anybody know what the criteria is if you are self employed? Do you need to cease trading?

    I have a family member whose business has fallen off a cliff, there is still a trickle of sales but nowhere near enough to justify losing out on this payment if it is an option for them. I’ve had a look at the websites but I have t come across what I’m looking for

    Anyone have any info on this aspect? Could be in a similar situation, online sales down but still some coming through. Wholesale sales to retail outlets more or less stopped. Expect some defaults on outstanding invoices when things come back, if some outlets don't reopen etc.

    So essentially some but reduced business being done. Are/ will there be any state assistance in this type of situation? Does one have to cease trading altogether to apply for any state help and then reopen again? Or is/will there be some partial help to allow self employed people to keep trading?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    Well, have you all figured out the new refund scheme :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    jos28 wrote: »
    Well, have you all figured out the new refund scheme :confused:

    Just looked now. What can I say? Clear as mud.

    Apparently, the refund scheme - which was allowing us to keep our employees on the books even though was they were temporarily laid off and we couldn't pay them - has been replaced by the new wage subsidy scheme.

    "This payment replaces the Department's Employer Refund Scheme announced on 15th March, and any business that received refunds under the current scheme do not need to reapply. The Revenue Commissioners will contact them directly to confirm that they meet the conditions for this new scheme. "

    The huge question is: does the employer have to pay the 30% not paid by the government? If not, well and good - looks just like the original refund scheme, only better (more income for employees). If they do, though, our only option is to lay off all staff so they can claim the payment themselves. This is exactly what we didn't want to do. Hard enough to get started again if your staff have all gone....

    If there's anyone out there who's managed to get an answer from Revenue on this point, can you please let us know?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    I took to mean that you can put 70% of an employee's through payroll tax free (presumably under Covid payment as per last week) and then top it up to their normal gross ?? Calculating it might be a bit tedious to say the least.

    The bit that really confuses me is It will be capped at net €350 for incomes between €38,000 and €76,000.
    Does this mean that lower paid workers receive a higher subsidy ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭PickYourName


    jos28 wrote: »
    I took to mean that you can put 70% of an employee's through payroll tax free (presumably under Covid payment as per last week) and then top it up to their normal gross ?? Calculating it might be a bit tedious to say the least.

    The bit that really confuses me is It will be capped at net €350 for incomes between €38,000 and €76,000.
    Does this mean that lower paid workers receive a higher subsidy ??

    I think we'll just have to wait to see how it is implemented.

    Note that the 70% is 70% of net wages.

    To answer your last question, I'd assume the answer is no: everyone gets the same subsidy (70% of net wages), but nobody gets more than €350 (i.e. it is capped). I guess you could argue that higher earners would get less than 70% as a result, but to be honest I don't think anyone in that position has grounds for complaint on that score.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Who is going to pay our wages?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭jos28


    Note that the 70% is 70% of net wages.

    Cheers, don't envy the payroll software developers


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