Looking for options if sales collapse due to Coronavirus.

jos28

Looks like we should hold off running that payroll, could be more changes over the weekend according to the 6pm news

gary550

PickYourName wrote: »

I would think you'd be fine for the following:

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

That is, apply directly to this as an employee, rather than try and do it through the company and get a refund.

It'll at least get you something for the next six weeks, until you can sort out if there's some other possibility.

I note they've updated to clarify that non-EU/EEA people can apply too. They are not entitled to any payment whatsoever normally.

Thank you PickYourName,

I`ll fill out the form and send it in, I would imagine there will be a couple of questions asked as the company address and my address are the same. I`ll update when I hear anything back just in case someone is on the same boat as me.

PickYourName

gary550 wrote: »

I would imagine there will be a couple of questions asked as the company address and my address are the same.

That definitely won't raise any issues. Our registered address, used for all revenue correspondance, is our home address, even though we've two retail outlets. There must be thousands of one-person or small companies (and even quite large ones) that are exactly the same.

BarryD2

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Does anybody know what the criteria is if you are self employed? Do you need to cease trading?

I have a family member whose business has fallen off a cliff, there is still a trickle of sales but nowhere near enough to justify losing out on this payment if it is an option for them. I’ve had a look at the websites but I have t come across what I’m looking for

Anyone have any info on this aspect? Could be in a similar situation, online sales down but still some coming through. Wholesale sales to retail outlets more or less stopped. Expect some defaults on outstanding invoices when things come back, if some outlets don't reopen etc.

So essentially some but reduced business being done. Are/ will there be any state assistance in this type of situation? Does one have to cease trading altogether to apply for any state help and then reopen again? Or is/will there be some partial help to allow self employed people to keep trading?

jos28

Well, have you all figured out the new refund scheme

PickYourName

jos28 wrote: »

Well, have you all figured out the new refund scheme

Just looked now. What can I say? Clear as mud.

Apparently, the refund scheme - which was allowing us to keep our employees on the books even though was they were temporarily laid off and we couldn't pay them - has been replaced by the new wage subsidy scheme.

"This payment replaces the Department's Employer Refund Scheme announced on 15th March, and any business that received refunds under the current scheme do not need to reapply. The Revenue Commissioners will contact them directly to confirm that they meet the conditions for this new scheme. "

The huge question is: does the employer have to pay the 30% not paid by the government? If not, well and good - looks just like the original refund scheme, only better (more income for employees). If they do, though, our only option is to lay off all staff so they can claim the payment themselves. This is exactly what we didn't want to do. Hard enough to get started again if your staff have all gone....

If there's anyone out there who's managed to get an answer from Revenue on this point, can you please let us know?

jos28

I took to mean that you can put 70% of an employee's through payroll tax free (presumably under Covid payment as per last week) and then top it up to their normal gross ?? Calculating it might be a bit tedious to say the least.

The bit that really confuses me is It will be capped at net €350 for incomes between €38,000 and €76,000.
Does this mean that lower paid workers receive a higher subsidy ??

PickYourName

jos28 wrote: »

I took to mean that you can put 70% of an employee's through payroll tax free (presumably under Covid payment as per last week) and then top it up to their normal gross ?? Calculating it might be a bit tedious to say the least.

The bit that really confuses me is It will be capped at net €350 for incomes between €38,000 and €76,000.
Does this mean that lower paid workers receive a higher subsidy ??

I think we'll just have to wait to see how it is implemented.

Note that the 70% is 70% of net wages.

To answer your last question, I'd assume the answer is no: everyone gets the same subsidy (70% of net wages), but nobody gets more than €350 (i.e. it is capped). I guess you could argue that higher earners would get less than 70% as a result, but to be honest I don't think anyone in that position has grounds for complaint on that score.

SEPT 23 1989

Who is going to pay our wages?

jos28

Note that the 70% is 70% of net wages.

Cheers, don't envy the payroll software developers

PickYourName

jos28 wrote: »

Note that the 70% is 70% of net wages.

Cheers, don't envy the payroll software developers

Indeed. If there's anything but the most trivial of changes - and that one isn't - it won't happen. Not sure what happens in that case: manual reporting of payroll to Revenue?

PickYourName

The following is now available:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/covid19/temporary-covid-19-wage-subsidy-scheme.aspx

I haven't read it yet, but hopefully will provide some answers.

cfeeneyinterior

PickYourName wrote: »

The following is now available:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/covid19/temporary-covid-19-wage-subsidy-scheme.aspx

I haven't read it yet, but hopefully will provide some answers.

I have read it but I'm unsure. If you were a director of a limited company, does this apply to you? Class S employee.

PickYourName

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

I have read it but I'm unsure. If you were a director of a limited company, does this apply to you? Class S employee.

It includes the statement: "The Scheme is confined to employees who were on the employer’s payroll as at 29 February 2020, and for whom a payroll submission has already been made to Revenue in the period from 1 February 2020 to 15 March 2020."

The scheme it replaced made it explicit that it included everyone who met that criteria - including Class S employees and those who normally don't qualify for any social welfare payments (such as non EU/EEA nationals on various visa programs).

I would be amazed if this scheme wasn't the same. I guess a few could be caught out if they didn't have a payroll submission between the relevant dates for whatever reason, though it's not clear how they would otherwise restrict it to current employees.

babybuilder

PickYourName wrote: »

Just looked now. What can I say? Clear as mud.

Apparently, the refund scheme - which was allowing us to keep our employees on the books even though was they were temporarily laid off and we couldn't pay them - has been replaced by the new wage subsidy scheme.

"This payment replaces the Department's Employer Refund Scheme announced on 15th March, and any business that received refunds under the current scheme do not need to reapply. The Revenue Commissioners will contact them directly to confirm that they meet the conditions for this new scheme. "

The huge question is: does the employer have to pay the 30% not paid by the government? If not, well and good - looks just like the original refund scheme, only better (more income for employees). If they do, though, our only option is to lay off all staff so they can claim the payment themselves. This is exactly what we didn't want to do. Hard enough to get started again if your staff have all gone....

If there's anyone out there who's managed to get an answer from Revenue on this point, can you please let us know?

Attached rev notice to employers

babybuilder

babybuilder wrote: »

Attached rev notice to employers

"Make best efforts to maintain a significant or 100% income for the period of the subsidy."

MovieFest

PickYourName wrote: »

It includes the statement: "The Scheme is confined to employees who were on the employer’s payroll as at 29 February 2020, and for whom a payroll submission has already been made to Revenue in the period from 1 February 2020 to 15 March 2020."

I pay myself yearly, every December, just so that if I'm having a bad year I can reduce the amount of salary I get paid. As a result of this I don't have a payroll submission for January or February. My business has 100% dried up now.
As a result it doesn't look like I can avail of this. What options might be available to me?

PickYourName

I've just been reading the details of the new Wage Subsidy Scheme.

My reading of it is that if someone's average net pay is less than €500/week, they would be better off being laid off completely and claiming the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment (€350, i.e. 70% of €500) themselves. This is very different from the scheme anounced last week, where the payment received was the same.

If it is the case - and can someone please confirm???? - I've been telling them the wrong thing all week, namely not to apply for the payment themselves.

makeandcreate

Trying to decide what to do for the best.
The "rules" surrounding this wage subsidy while seeming clear are vague - How is it decided a business has had 25% drop off in business - is that compared to last year, compared to last month, or an aggregate sector figure?
Where it says - businesses that cannot afford to keep paying staff will receive subsidy- how is that quantified? (Can pay 3 weeks).
We cannot pay staff only to be later told we do not qualify for repayment - as harsh as it is, I'd be better off terminating them now and let them claim Welfare.

tina1040

jos28 wrote: »

I took to mean that you can put 70% of an employee's through payroll tax free (presumably under Covid payment as per last week) and then top it up to their normal gross ?? Calculating it might be a bit tedious to say the least.

The bit that really confuses me is It will be capped at net €350 for incomes between €38,000 and €76,000.
Does this mean that lower paid workers receive a higher subsidy ??

I'm confused by this too. Net lower that €38000 can get €410 but over €38000 get €350?

Also if employee earns less that €500 net do they get less than €350? I have a part timer earning €300 net and will continue to work a couple of hours per week. Are they better off being laid off?

PickYourName

tina1040 wrote: »

Also if employee earns less that €500 net do they get less than €350? I have a part timer earning €300 net and will continue to work a couple of hours per week. Are they better off being laid off?

That's exactly the issue I have, multiplied by about 10 people.

It completely defeats the purpose of the scheme. If I retain them, they get paid less; if I let them go, they can't work to help me get restarted.

I've also been tellling all staff not to apply for the new emergency payment as we'll take care of everything. Now, it looks like I'll have to turn round on payday that this was wrong.

I'm trying to get clarification to see if what I think the way it operates is in fact correct.

jos28

I have lost the will to live trying to implement this scheme. The fact that someone with higher earnings gets max €350
I was also under the impression that the 70% of NET only applies from April What about the last March payrun ? Revenue details here are very vague. I was initially under the impression that the subsidy was €410

capefear

my understanding of it and I could be wrong is as follows for monthly salaries.

March if you are paid monthly your employees can claim 203 x 4 weeks, no net wage cap so people who earn more than 960 a week can get 203 a week

from the 26 march to the 20 april transitional phase 1 - so you can claim the 70% rates and this includes peole who take home a net weekly wage of 960 or more.

After 20 april transitional phase 2 kicks in and people who earn more then 960 a week net are removed from the scheme.

Can any one confirm if this is correct

tina1040

capefear wrote: »

my understanding of it and I could be wrong is as follows for monthly salaries.

March if you are paid monthly your employees can claim 203 x 4 weeks, no net wage cap so people who earn more than 960 a week can get 203 a week

from the 26 march to the 20 april transitional phase 1 - so you can claim the 70% rates and this includes peole who take home a net weekly wage of 960 or more.

After 20 april transitional phase 2 kicks in and people who earn more then 960 a week net are removed from the scheme.

Can any one confirm if this is correct

I was told by the accountant that there is no subsidy available for those earning over net €960.

I'm still waiting to hear about those earning net less than €500 where the 70% is less that €350.

jos28

Nightmare of a pay run. You can only top up by 30% of total weekly net.
EG Weekly net = €850
Subsidy = €350
30% of €850 = 255.
This means the employee takes home €605 and not €850.
Other employees got tax refunds
Ran it regardless as people had to paid, I'm not submitting it to Revenue until I sort it out.

BTW When I rang Revenue the €203 which I thought we could use for March no longer applies. That scheme has been replaced by the Wage Subsidy scheme. They also told me that meetings are ongoing and it could all change by Monday.

capefear

jos28 wrote: »

Nightmare of a pay run. You can only top up by 30% of total weekly net.
EG Weekly net = €850
Subsidy = €350
30% of €850 = 255.
This means the employee takes home €605 and not €850.
Other employees got tax refunds
Ran it regardless as people had to paid, I'd submit it to Revenue until I sort it out.

BTW When I rang Revenue the €203 which I thought we could use for March no longer applies. That scheme has been replaced by the Wage Subsidy scheme. They also told me that meetings are ongoing and it could all change by Monday.

So if an employer wants to pay the same net wage for March how can they do it? Or can it be even done?

PickYourName

jos28 wrote: »

They also told me that meetings are ongoing and it could all change by Monday.

I'd say they are!

Let's hope they do change. There are some crazy anomalies there.

I decided to pay top-ups (with cash I don’t have) to make sure nobody’s worse off than if they just left and claimed the €350 payment. Also, a few of the team are getting €350 instead of the €410 others are getting, even though they normally get paid more. Where’s the fairness? Either have them all on a max of €350 or all on a max of €410. I am reluctant to criticise too much, though: it must be bedlam in Revenue trying to get all this up and running.

jos28

capefear wrote: »

So if an employer wants to pay the same net wage for March how can they do it? Or can it be even done?

It certainly could not be done using my payroll software. The limit kicks in no matter how much you try to top up by. Max 30% of net pay and no more

jos28

PickYourName wrote: »

I'd say they are!

Let's hope they do change. There are some crazy anomalies there.

I decided to pay top-ups (with cash I don’t have) to make sure nobody’s worse off than if they just left and claimed the €350 payment. Also, a few of the team are getting €350 instead of the €410 others are getting, even though they normally get paid more. Where’s the fairness? Either have them all on a max of €350 or all on a max of €410. I am reluctant to criticise too much, though: it must be bedlam in Revenue trying to get all this up and running.

Thank God someone else was as confused as me. Obviously there are problems when you roll out something without it being tried and tested. In fairness the emphasis was on getting money to employees and that's a good thing. We were the same today, counting the petty cash to see if we could make it up that way. It's insane which is why I didn't submit it. The tax refund situation was the strangest aspect

SixtaWalthers

Too many industries are suffering, it is not only about the hospitality or travel industry. I heard that the US auto industry offered government to make ventilators. I think you should also try to explore more ventures. Even you can go with the same assets and staff into a new venture. Probably, very soon world will fix it.