Looking for options if sales collapse due to Coronavirus.

jos28

Did anyone watch Ingrid Miley on RTE news ? It was a bit vague, if employers can pay €203 to each employee they can claim it back. They are launching new simplified forms from what I understood. Who claims ? Individual employees ? The employer en masse ?
Unfortunately I'll be dealing with this tomorrow

Bandara

From where I'm looking Lay Off of staff is the best option at this stage, using form RP9 and also notifying the staff member that the lay off will be temporary.

It buys time and allows the staff to get some SW payment to keep them going while the business is closed.

I can't see any other solution that is as painless and transparent as this ? (and not frightening to the staff member). Opinions Welcome

(Below Taken from the RP9 Form)
DEFINITION OF LAY OFF AND SHORT TIME

A lay off situation exists when an employer suspends an employee's employment because there is no work available, when the employer expects the cessation of work to be temporary and when the employer notifies the employee to this effect.

A short time working situation exists when an employer, because he/she has less work available for an employee than is normal, reduces that employee's earnings to less than half the normal week's earnings or reduces the number of hours of work to less than half the normal weekly hours, when the employer expects this reduction to be temporary and when the employer notifies the employee to this effect.

jos28

I've dealt with redundancies and temporary lay offs before and I wouldn't have thought an RP9 is relevant under these circumstances. My concern there would be for employees with less than 2 years service. My understanding is that redundancy only applies where the lay off is permanent.

No info up on any government site yet but I re-watched the news and I got the impression that if employers can manage to pay €203 to each employee, then the employer can claim it back. I wouldn't be too confident of the speed of that payment though

PickYourName

Looks like there's reference to it here:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/612b90-covid-19-information-for-employers/

See "Employer COVID-19 Refund Scheme". No details, though.

jos28

Enough details to keep us going thankfully. This bit negates the need for RP9s
This means that workers retain their link with employers and there is no need for them personally to submit a jobseeker's claim.
Wouldn't be hopefully of a fast refund from SW but all credit due to our Government for setting this up so quickly.
JSB is not taxable so I'm presuming we don't have to run anything through payroll until we are out the other side.

tacofries

Might help one or two people out:

From the SBCI,

The Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation has announced a number of business supports to help businesses address the challenges posed by the Covid19 virus. These include the SBCI Covid 19 Working Capital Scheme and the Credit Guarantee Scheme.


The SBCI is currently working to bring the €200m SBCI Covid19 Working Capital Scheme to market as soon as possible. Details of the scheme and eligibility for same are being worked through at present.
In the interim there are SBCI supports currently available to SMEs.


Credit Guarantee Scheme which provides an 80% Government Guarantee for qualifying facilities up to €1m for terms of up to 7 years. It currently carries a 0.5% premium on top of the existing bank loan rate. Full details of the scheme can be found on the SBCI website.


Brexit Loan Scheme also provides an 80% Government Guarantee on loans up to €1.5m for a 3 year term with a fixed interest rate of 4% for Brexit impacted (15% of your business either directly or indirectly exposed to the UK or NI) businesses. If you are Brexit impacted and may not have already availed of the scheme then this could be an option for you. Again full details and an eligibility application form are available on the SBCI website.

Bandara

Emergency Corona payment document attached. Released tonight and makes a lot of sense.

tacofries

Bandara wrote: »

Emergency Corona payment document attached. Released tonight and makes a lot of sense.

That's a very fair, easy to fill, form and a good initial response from the government.

Trojan

Enterprise Ireland: COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Business Response Plan


Specific supports include;
• a €200m Package for Enterprise Supports including a Rescue and Restructuring Scheme
available through Enterprise Ireland for viable but vulnerable firms that need to restructure
or transform their businesses, details of these supports are being finalised
• a €200m Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland (SBCI) Working Capital scheme for eligible
businesses impacted by COVID-19, further information can be found here
• A Short Time Work Support is available from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social
Protection and is an income support payment for employees who have been temporarily placed
on a shorter working week and is intended to help employers during periods of temporary
difficulty. Further details at www.gov.ie/stws
• “Finance in focus” grant of up to €7,200 available to Enterprise Ireland and Údarás na
Gaeltachta clients to support financial planning
Other Enterprise Ireland/Local Enterprise Office supports including:
• Strategic consultancy grant for SME’s to assist the company development of a strategic
response plan
• Act On Initiative, providing access to 2 days consultancy engagement at no extra cost to assess
Financial Management, Strategic sourcing and transport and logistics advice
• Key Manager Support to provide partial funding towards the recruiting of a Full or Part time
Manager with critical skills for future growth
• Agile Innovation Fund and Operational Excellence Offer
• Be prepared Grant for contingency planning
• Vouchers for business continuity preparedness, innovation and productivity will be available
through Local Enterprise Offices in every local authority area (www.localenterprise.ie) • The Credit Guarantee Scheme is a government supported product from the banks for small and
medium businesses who have difficulty borrowing from their bank. Businesses can apply for loans
of up to €1 million at AIB, Bank of Ireland or Ulster Bank. Loans can be for terms of up to 7 years.
The scheme provides an 80% guarantee to participating banks which are AIB, Bank of Ireland and
Ulster Bank.
• Additional financial supports are available locally through the 31 Local Enterprise Offices
(www.localenterprise.ie) and Microfinance Ireland (www.microfinanceireland.ie). The
maximum loan available from Microfinance Ireland will be increased from €25,000 to
€50,000 as an immediate measure to specifically deal with exceptional circumstances that
micro-enterprises are facing
• Visit www.enterprise-ireland.com/businessresponse for further details on the above supports.

jos28

Has anyone got an update on the Employer Refund Scheme? It clearly states that employees do not have to submit a jobseeker's claim. If they are paid €203 how do we account for it? JSB is taxfree, do we run a payroll and put it through as a taxfree payment? Have they released a form for employers to complete showing all the employees they have and will pay the €203 to ?

onedmc

jos28 wrote: »

Has anyone got an update on the Employer Refund Scheme? It clearly states that employees do not have to submit a jobseeker's claim. If they are paid €203 how do we account for it? JSB is taxfree, do we run a payroll and put it through as a taxfree payment? Have they released a form for employers to complete showing all the employees they have and will pay the €203 to ?

Yea, I dont get it, do I continue to pay and get a refund or is payment direct to the employee.

OttoPilot

onedmc wrote: »

Yea, I dont get it, do I continue to pay and get a refund or is payment direct to the employee.

My understanding is, you pay the employees and draw down on credit facilities if necessary and the govt will refund you. I believe banks have been instructed not to deny requests for borrowing from existing customers.

jos28

We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

I realise this means that employee's net pay will be higher than normal but your P30 payment will be reduced accordingly. If we decide to only pay the €203 per employee next week, they will get the full amount into their hand as they would if they were signing on directly at their Intreo Office.
I hope that makes sense.

PickYourName

jos28 wrote: »

We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

I realise this means that employee's net pay will be higher than normal but your P30 payment will be reduced accordingly. If we decide to only pay the €203 per employee next week, they will get the full amount into their hand as they would if they were signing on directly at their Intreo Office.
I hope that makes sense.

That's very useful, thanks! I presume this only applies to people who've actually been laid-off, though, right?

antoinolachtnai

There are two separate things:

1. If you lay someone off, they make their claim for immediate assistance using the single-page form.

2. The government doesn't want you to lay people off (and indeed, laying people off would have an implication in relation to redundancy in ordinary times). They want you to instead keep the person on and pay the person 203 euros or more.

This is a time to support people, if you can. It's not just financial support. It's emotional support and leadership.

antoinolachtnai

jos28 wrote: »

We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

Do you mean €797+€203?

enricoh

Vintners said 50k will be off with pubs closed, hospitality industry say 70k for restaurants etc, creche's, airlines stopping etc etc.
There's gonna be a unbelievable number of jobs culled til this runs its course not including consumer confidence closing the purse strings.

A mate of mine in Hong Kong said the whole Corona virus is history over there now, everything back to square one.
Try to hang in there folks.

PickYourName

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There are two separate things:

1. If you lay someone off, they make their claim for immediate assistance using the single-page form.

2. The government doesn't want you to lay people off (and indeed, laying people off would have an implication in relation to redundancy in ordinary times). They want you to instead keep the person on and pay the person 203 euros or more.

This is a time to support people, if you can. It's not just financial support. It's emotional support and leadership.

OK that helps clarify:

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/965011-covid-19-introduction-of-simplified-unemployment-payments-for-employ/

However, I assume you have to have actually stopped trading, as it says "Where employers, who have to cease trading because of the impact of social distancing, continue to pay workers they will be able to claim refunds from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection."

Right now, we've closed the doors, but we are hoping to open again if we can figure out a way of operating.

PickYourName

enricoh wrote: »

A mate of mine in Hong Kong said the whole Corona virus is history over there now, everything back to square one.
Try to hang in there folks.

Is "back to square one" good or bad news? that is, is it back to "normal" (or something approaching normal) or "back to the stone age" that'll take years to recover from?

Please say it's the former! I really need some positive news right now!

jos28

PickYourName wrote: »

That's very useful, thanks! I presume this only applies to people who've actually been laid-off, though, right?

Laid off or hours significantly reduced

jos28

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Do you mean €797+€203?

Yes that's it. You reduce the normal gross by €203 and pay that under a different category. This way you can keep track of the €203s your will be claiming as an Employer refund.

enricoh

PickYourName wrote: »

Is "back to square one" good or bad news? that is, is it back to "normal" (or something approaching normal) or "back to the stone age" that'll take years to recover from?

Please say it's the former! I really need some positive news right now!

It's the former, tourism is still lagging however as its only hitting the West n Australia now.

antoinolachtnai

jos28 wrote: »

Yes that's it. You reduce the normal gross by €203 and pay that under a different category. This way you can keep track of the €203s your will be claiming as an Employer refund.

I have since heard the following (from a source who heard it from a not particularly senior source in the Revenue but the reason i report it is that it makes sense).

The Revenue anticipate that you will pay out this 203 euros per employee to your staff, but will not pay your VAT and PREM liabilities to the Revenue. So in a few months time, say September (the date mentioned), you will be owed 203 euros x 20 weeks = 4060 euros per employee or thereabouts that you have paid out as COVID19 payments. At that point they will offset the COVID19 money paid against your VAT/PREM liability.

From this I infer the following.

If you need cash fast to pay your employees, you will be able to get it (through mechanism not yet explained, though you could imagine it will be something like a VAT refund in a month where your VAT out is greater than your VAT in). But to get this, it is likely that your VAT and PREM returns will need to be fully in order, and you will need to be owed money taking VAT and PREM accruals into account.

As I say all the above is qualified as i have stated. The first bit is a plausible story relayed to me. The second is my inference from it.

PickYourName

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

.
Now, this is

??? The suspense is killing me........

antoinolachtnai

PickYourName wrote: »

??? The suspense is killing me........

I will try to think of a sequel for tomorrow. I am already on speculation based on rumour and I honestly don’t know how much more I can get out of these barrels.

Hopefully we will have more actual information by Wednesday. I am reliably informed that blood is being sweated even at this hour in government departments.

PickYourName

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I am reliably informed that blood is being sweated even at this hour in government departments.

I have to say - on a serious note - I'm really impressed by the level of work being done by the govt., civil service and state agencies. The volume of work behind what's being produced at very short notice must be absolutely Trojan. They get precious little credit at the best of times, but they're really stepping up to the plate at the worst of times.

Maybe it’s down to us not actually having a government? Whatever it is, it’s a stark contrast to the flat-footedness in the UK.

punisher5112

I heard they are looking at banks helping with these payments where they will in turn be reimbursed.

jos28

PickYourName wrote: »

I have to say - on a serious note - I'm really impressed by the level of work being done by the govt., civil service and state agencies. The volume of work behind what's being produced at very short notice must be absolutely Trojan. They get precious little credit at the best of times, but they're really stepping up to the plate at the worst of times.

Maybe it’s down to us not actually having a government? Whatever it is, it’s a stark contrast to the flat-footedness in the UK.

Well said, it must be manic in most Government offices at the moment. I know the SW IT teams were working through the night. Staff have been drafted in from quieter departments to work in the busier ones. Full credit due to our Government, which is not something we hear very often.

Trojan

There's going to be a lot of small local retailers looking for delivery options soon - opportunity for someone laid off or going out of business, starting a local delivery service of some kind.

PickYourName

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There are two separate things:

1. If you lay someone off, they make their claim for immediate assistance using the single-page form.

2. The government doesn't want you to lay people off (and indeed, laying people off would have an implication in relation to redundancy in ordinary times). They want you to instead keep the person on and pay the person 203 euros or more.

This is a time to support people, if you can. It's not just financial support. It's emotional support and leadership.

Further details of this have just been announced:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/news/articles/employer-covid-19-refund-scheme.aspx

One thing that concerns me, though, the part that says: “No other payment amounts are made by the employer to the employee” This would seem to indicate it is not possible to pay more than the €203 to anyone on the scheme.