Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

What's the latest on Kieran Bennett and what's the chances of getting Shane Bennett back ,

No chance

Deleted User wrote: »

He absolutely light up for ballysaggart and seemed to be maturing into an unreal player

But hes off to america for summer (afaik) and who could argue againest it as its a great experience for anyone to have and wrong to expect any player to pass up on living their life for waterford

Id imagine he'll be back next year surely

He’s been the past 2 summers in America already, not like this is a once off opportunity.

On another note does anyone listen to the GAA hour with Colm Parkinson and Damien Hayes? They gave no credit to Waterford for the performance against Limerick at all. Spoke for about 90 seconds and basically just said their going nowhere this year, no gameplan.

I’d say they couldn’t name 5 Waterford players between them. Bluffers

Yeah I was listening to it. Damian Hayes and Parkinson both questioned what Waterford's game plan is right now? They reckon we don't really have any defined way of playing other than running through the middle and they said this won't work in the summer.

So what is our style/system right now? To me it seems to be mix of everything but work ethic is the main improvement or characteristic of Liam Cahill's reign. Come championship we'll need a bit more than work ethic though as every team expecting to win any game will bring that.

I would expect we'll start our strongest available team this weekend with maybe two or three positions still rotated by Cahill to try things out?

I think from 1-9 he's probably happy enough (cover may be an issue) but from 10-15 we're a bit unsteady in my opinion and I don't think Cahill has found what he's looking for. I would like to see Dessie and Power start in the corners around Bennett this weekend. That's a full forward line mixing skill and hard work.

Prunty and McNulty have nailed their positions. Right corner back probably still in doubt due to injuries and forced rotation. What age is Shane Fives?

I don't mind that podcast and Parkinson is one of my preferred hosts. However he says himself that he's not a hurling man.

It is definitely Leinster biased as Brian Carroll (particularly), Michael Carton, Conal Keaney (previously) show their colours. Then even the more measured pundits like Cheddar Plunkett and JJ Delaney are from Leinster as well.

I wouldn't accuse Hayes of Leinster bias, the man is just totally out of his depth. He tried to argue that even with the league restructure this year that there should have been relegation last year although couldn't answer where to.

blueflame wrote: »

Not sure but he played on the U21 side that played Clare in Munster Final in Fraher Field 2009 with Noellie Connors, Maurice, Philip Mahony and Stephen Daniels, Tommy Ryan etc. Think Shane was one of the lads up to the age that night so that would make him 31 / 32 this year ?

Yea he was fullback on that team. I reckon still u21 the following year too that would make him 30/31. Looks like he will hold his place this year but dosent look quite the same as he was 2/3 years ago. No one else that was tested really nailed down that corner back spot and i think Cahill has decided Conor Gleeson is not a corner back and he’s probably right aswell

big_drive wrote: »

I enjoy it as a podcast, they get decent interviews with players.
Must say Parkinson has informed himself well over past couple years , definitely more knowledgable regarding hurling and players etc than in the past.

Damien Hayes comes across a bit clueless to be honest. Could come out with anything really.

Irish Examiner have a good one going with Anthony Daly and others

some good content from Shane Stapleton and michael verney too even if Stapleton has a big Dublin bias with the Cuala link, i like Parkinsons potcast generally but agree that hayes is a bit of a bluffer on it.

I look forward to Colm Parkinson's hurling podcasts. They're light hearted and at least he's not afraid to speak his mind or go against popular belief. Good long show and perfect for the car as someone already said. Agree that Hayes is a bit of comic relief only. Off the Ball are good too but they don't really do a regular hurling show and when they do they're short.

Can't really get into Dalo's one.... seems very slow or awkward or something?

What's Stapleton's one called? Is it OTB AM ?

Limerick 1-21 Waterford 1-17

In analysing this game, some background factors should be considered. Both teams were already qualified for the knockout stages, which inevitably took some of the edge out of the game. Limerick were playing at home, under floodlights with which they were familiar (a significant factor in my view). Limerick also have the strongest squad in hurling at the moment, and while it is not possible to say what their first team is (or will be), they had close to a full-strength team on the field on Saturday evening. Waterford, by contrast, were short about half of their likely championship line-up (assuming all players are available). Limerick also have a well-worked out game plan which they have been perfecting over the last three years. Waterford are only starting work on theirs.

The playing conditions were also difficult, with continuous rain and a stiff wind blowing straight across the field. This helps explain a lot of the dropped balls and failed pickups, as well as the poor shooting (from both sides).

Waterford were flattered by the four-point deficit at the end, as Limerick appeared to have taken their foot off the gas when Waterford made their late scoring flourish. Earlier, Limerick failed to make sufficient use of periods of dominance, especially in the first quarter. They certainly created the chances, but had a lot of poor misses.

Their game plan is all about using passing movements to put players in the clear in the midfield area from where they hit beautifully weighted balls into the corners for Gillane and Mulcahy to run on to. One has great sympathy for full backs trying to play against this system, especially given the high skill levels of their immediate opponents.

The only way to beat Limerick is to disrupt either the quality of incoming ball, or the supply of ball itself. This involves stopping them gaining possession in the middle third, or, when they do get possession, putting them under pressure when playing balls into the full forward line. This is what Kilkenny managed to do, at least in the first half, in last year’s All-Ireland semi-final. They flooded the middle third with players and worked like dogs to put pressure on Limerick. However, it was hard to keep the required work rate going, and Limerick steadied the ship to dominate the second half. What beat them in the end was their 15 wides (some of them really bad), but you wouldn’t bank on that happening again.

Last Saturday, Waterford hit a lot of hopeful long balls into the forwards which were generally gobbled up by the Limerick defence. They also hit a number of low balls from the midfield area which were aimed at forwards who invariably had a defender up their ass. This made it difficult for them to secure possession, especially given the playing conditions. Limerick don’t hit hopeful or 50/50 balls.

However, Waterford showed, both against Tipperary and, at times, against Limerick, that they do have one asset which can be used to open up defences – a lot of players with great pace. However, this asset has to be used judiciously. The key requirement is to have a support player running off the shoulder of the man carrying the ball, with a quick transfer of ball creating the opportunity to break the line. And Waterford have done this quite well at times in the current league. However, last Saturday we saw too many instances of Waterford players running at the Limerick defence with no one in support and ending up in a cul-de-sac surrounded by opposition players.

This, of course, can be perfected through coaching and practice, and in Liam Cahill and Mikey Bevans we appear to have top-class coaches. What the current league has shown is that we have players capable of performing at a level which allows us to be competitive with the other top hurling counties. Cahill is to be complimented on using the league to try out new players, and several promising candidates have emerged.

From the beginning of the year, it appeared that Cahill had identified Neil Montgomery and Jack Fagan as players with potential. Although they struggled a bit early on, they have shown continuous improvement as they adjusted to the demands of top-level intercounty hurling. Last Saturday, Neil Montgomery produced his best display yet in a Waterford shirt. For the first 50 minutes his workrate was enormous as he worked across and up and down the pitch, putting in tackles, supporting team-mates who were on the ball and getting on the ball himself. In that period he racked up eleven possessions which he generally used well. Predictably, he ran out of steam in the final quarter but he can be very happy with his overall performance.

Fagan had a big impact following his introduction in the 31st minute. He is obviously gaining in confidence and his powerful runs at the Limerick defence finally yielded dividends with his terrific goal. Another player whose appearance in the panel at the beginning of the year may have surprised some is Tom Barron. Barron had a terrific game on Saturday, with his excellent ball skills and his preparedness to run at opponents. His total of 14 possessions was bettered only by his older brother Jamie, whose 13 second-half possessions (17 in all) represented a phenomenal contribution.

Waterford’s other big performer on the night was Calum Lyons. I just love watching this man play. His ball control, especially when moving at pace, is a joy to watch as is his ability to go past opponents as he sets out on what are becoming trademark penetrating runs. And although he appears to be of slight enough build, he has a great ability to drive out of rucks and through tackles.

I was also very impressed with goalkeeper Shaun O’Brien. Apart from his two excellent saves, he played with great maturity and self-confidence. I particularly liked the low trajectory he was able to get into his pucks and, when required, he certainly was able to get great distance also. It may be tough keeping three goalkeepers on the panel, but it is great having such choice available.

One aspect of the game which is somewhat concerning is the way Stephen Bennett was turning up all over the field. At times you get the impression that he is trying to do everything himself. Twice during the game he took frees close to his own goal which landed in the Limerick goal area, which is where you would like him to be. Shaun O’Brien was quite capable of delivering these balls to the same spot. Perhaps he needs to be given a more focused role on the team.

Finally, I think some of the criticism here of Patrick Curran is OTT. Of his four first half possessions, one earned a converted free, one was a shot on goal which went inches wide, one set up Jamie Barron for a point and one was an excellent pass to MJ Sutton which nearly led to a goal for Stephen Bennett. If his shot on goal in the second half hadn’t hit Barry Nash on the heel it may well have finished up in the net. If Curran got just two possessions in a game and scored two goals nobody would be complaining.

The following is the list of possessions per player for the game:

O’Brien, Shaun (4); Gleeson, Conor (6); Prunty, Conor (2); McNulty, Shane (9); Lyons, Calum (14); Daly, Iarlaith (6); Barron, Tom (14); O’Brien, Mark (1); Barron, Jamie (17); Montgomery, Neil (11); Mahony, Pauric (7); Sutton, MJ (3); Prendergast, Jack (5); Bennett, Stephen (8); Curran, Patrick (6); Fagan, Jack (3); Hogan, Peter (3); Kearney, Mikey (3); Power, Billy (1); Lyons, Darragh (3).

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

OTB GAA. They have Tommy Walsh who in my opinion is the best hurling pundit out there at the moment. Not that theres much competition around, don't get me started on the RTE crew

Agree on Tommy. He's a poet when it comes to punditry.

hardybuck wrote: »

Giveitfong, great overview as always.

However, I notice you place a lot of focus on the number of possessions in your analysis. This only tells part of the story - what the player does with possession is a more telling stat.

For example you mentioned that Waterford hit a lot of aimless ball, 50:50s or poor quality passes that put forwards under pressure.

You mentioned that Tom Barron had 14 possessions - how effectively did he use them in your opinion?

From memory, it was Tom Barrons pass that set up Fagan for the goal

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

I look forward to Colm Parkinson's hurling podcasts. They're light hearted and at least he's not afraid to speak his mind or go against popular belief. Good long show and perfect for the car as someone already said. Agree that Hayes is a bit of comic relief only. Off the Ball are good too but they don't really do a regular hurling show and when they do they're short.

Can't really get into Dalo's one.... seems very slow or awkward or something?

What's Stapleton's one called? Is it OTB AM ?

stapleton's is called our game, daly's never grew on me, feels like lads having a chat over a pint rather than proper analysis.

carter10 wrote: »

From memory, it was Tom Barrons pass that set up Fagan for the goal

Perhaps he did, a lad getting handling the ball 14 times in the game is bound to have done some good with it.

But for example, a player like Austin Gleeson might gain 12 possessions in the game. Score two monster points, lash three wides, concede possession twice or three times, foul twice and his man hits two points. If you only look at the possessions you might think he's played a stormer, but if you look deeper he's not done so well.