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Token women commentators in men’rt

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    #62
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    anewme wrote:
    Instead of accepting that men and women are individuals with their own opinions, likes, dislikes and opinions, you choose to push that women are all the same, obsessed with shopping, embroidery and nagging.

    Men and women are indeed all individuals who think and act differently. However, there is a reason why stereotypes exist, and that's because the vast majority of women and men like different things. Nothing wrong with that.

    Women's football and men's football are pretty much different sports. The most elite women's footballer would not get into the starting eleven of a top tier side.

    Tokenism is rife in television and I find it more insulting to women to insist in pushing them onto television for the sake of diversity rather than because they deserve it.


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    #63
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Men and women are indeed all individuals who think and act differently. However, there is a reason why stereotypes exist, and that's because the vast majority of women and men like different things. Nothing wrong with that.

    Do you think women's interests are shopping, embroidery and nagging, or would it be sexist to assume that ?


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    #64
    boardise
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭boardise


    Women talking is fine but their commentating on matches doesn't work for me. The nature of their vocal cords is such that when they try to inject excitement - their voice becomes discordant and shrill so they sound like demented fishwives.


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    #65
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    anewme wrote:
    Do you think women's interests are shopping, embroidery and nagging, or would it be sexist to assume that ?

    I'd say the majority of people that enjoy shopping and embroidery would be female.

    It obviously doesn't apply to ALL women.

    Nagging was, I assume, a joke.


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    #66
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    boardise wrote: »
    Women talking is fine but their commentating on matches doesn't work for me. The nature of their vocal cords is such that when they try to inject excitement - their voice becomes discordant and shrill so they sound like demented fishwives.

    More sexist crap...women sound like demented fishwives.


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    #67
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    anewme wrote:
    More sexist crap...women sound like demented fishwives.

    Do you not find "positive" discrimination sexist?


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    #68
    bubbles o hara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭bubbles o hara


    This pc gender crap has gone beyond ridiculous. I turn off the sports channels more often than I watch them now because of the 'token' women...and that's what they are, no matter how knowledgeable they may be.

    I would rather get a job based on my ability than my gender.

    And having said that, I would rather pour superglue in my ears than listen to Gary Lineker waffle on.


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    #69
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Do you not find "positive" discrimination sexist?

    Do you believe that saying someone sounds like a demented fishwife is in any way positive or is meant in anything other than a negative way?


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    #70
    Baseball72
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Baseball72


    I am still trying to get used to women commentating / analyzing football & rugby matches on SKY/BT/Five Live etc.

    And then I think of Jermain Jenas. If women have the insight to a game then its fine. The female rugby analysts still know 100% more about the sport than I do (having watched it for 50 plus years). But it still takes some getting used to...


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    #71
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    anewme wrote:
    Do you believe that saying someone sounds like a demented fishwife is in any way positive or is meant in anything other than a negative way?

    I think that was said to be intentionally offensive and to provoke your reaction.

    Will you answer my question?


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    #72
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Definitely tokenism. Charity in a way.
    All of a sudden all sports across many channels now have female pundits on male sporting events.

    Pandering.


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    #73
    Rikand
    Registered Users Posts: 20,341 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Marie Crowe is very good on the radio. Sadly shes saddled with those other two lemons.


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    #74
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    You don't say....

    Alex Scott, regardless of the amount of caps she has, wouldn't last a month in the semi pro leagues in the UK, that is Non League Football....she wouldn't last a month....there are about 4,000 professional male footballers in the UK at any given time...not including the Semi Pro leagues, there is probably a few dozen professional female players....do you understand that...a professional women's team has never beaten an Under 15 boys team anywhere...now, do you honestly believe I like pointing that out...it needs to be pointed out to put the level Alex Scott has achieved into perspective.

    You are in no position to talk about football if you don't understand the size of the sport and culture you are talking about let alone telling me what I am saying is "f##king ludicrous".

    It's the same game! The tactics are the same, the formations are the same, the positions are the same, regardless of standard, Alex Scott was a professional with a 10+ year career in the same. You're insulting her and every professional female footballer by suggesting it's like getting 15 year olds to do the punditry. As someone pointed out most managers haven't even played at the highest levels. Experience and knowledge are not the same thing and that was my point when I brought up the football journalists earlier.


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    #75
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    FunLover18 wrote:
    It's the same game! The tactics are the same, the formations are the same, the positions are the same, regardless of standard, Alex Scott was a professional with a 10+ year career in the same. You're insulting her and every professional female footballer by suggesting it's like getting 15 year olds to play. As someone pointed out most managers haven't even played at the highest levels. Experience and knowledge are not the same thing and that was my point when I brought up the football journalists earlier.

    Sure I used to play for St Kevin's under 16s and I manage my local under 8's.

    Same sport. I should be a pundit so.

    Women's football and men's football at an elite level are worlds apart.


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    #76
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I think that was said to be intentionally offensive and to provoke your reaction.

    Will you answer my question?

    But why do you think that's ok?

    Why are you questioning me and not the hate?


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    #77
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    It's the same game! The tactics are the same, the formations are the same, the positions are the same, regardless of standard, Alex Scott was a professional with a 10+ year career in the same. You're insulting her and every professional female footballer by suggesting it's like getting 15 year olds to do the punditry. As someone pointed out most managers haven't even played at the highest levels. Experience and knowledge are not the same thing and that was my point when I brought up the football journalists earlier.

    I believe the ladies world cup winning United States soccer team played the Under 15 Dallas FC boys team in a warm up before a tournament and lost 5-2.


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    #78
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    I think there is certainly a degree of tokenism with female pundits at male sports and I'll admit I didn't like it at first, but, I don't really mind now. Some are excellent and very knowledgeable like Alex Scott and others aren't great, but, that's the same with male pundits also.

    I think the biggest problem is that alot of the female pundits outside of athletics and tennis aren't that well known to the general public because women's sports in general is still in it's infancy. On the other hand male pundits are generally well known so are more readily accepted.


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    #79
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    anewme wrote:
    But why do you think that's ok?

    I never said it was ok.
    anewme wrote:
    Why are you questioning me and not the hate?

    Because I'm interested in your answer, not interested in scolding someone for making, at best, a joke, or at worst, an attempt to bait you to respond as you did.


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    #80
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    I believe the ladies world cup winning United States soccer team played the Under 15 Dallas FC boys team in a warm up before a tournament and lost 5-2.

    What's your point? Alex Scott has career spanning more than ten years. What aspect of the men's game do you think she shouldn't be able to comprehend?


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    #81
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    FunLover18 wrote:
    What's your point? Alex Scott has career spanning more than ten years. What aspect of the men's game do you think she shouldn't be able to comprehend?

    Competing at that level. There are countless more men that have played at the level she hasn't and she would be included purely for "progressive" reasons ahead of those men. She would be exceptionally qualified to speak about women's football.


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    #82
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    What's your point? Alex Scott has career spanning more than ten years. What aspect of the men's game do you think she shouldn't be able to comprehend?

    More than 10 years in the game. To be honest iv never heard of her. She might have been at the top of her level but that's on a par with sky sports hiring a pundit who played national League 3 for half a season on loan from a club in Gibraltar.

    It's just tokenism. Clearly. But that's the way it is now. Hopefully there is no pay gap between her and Gary lineker


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    #83
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Rikand wrote: »
    Marie Crowe is very good on the radio. Sadly shes saddled with those other two lemons.
    Have to disagree with you here, Marie Crowe is not good on the radio- agree that she is saddled with a lemon in Donnacha - she has a good knowledge of sports, but, she's not a good radio presenter.


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    #84
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Definitely tokenism. Charity in a way.
    All of a sudden all sports across many channels now have female pundits on male sporting events.

    Pandering.
    I think it would be worth drilling it down a bit - and considering that maybe it's not tokenism in all cases.
    bubbles o hara wrote: »
    This pc gender crap has gone beyond ridiculous. I turn off the sports channels more often than I watch them now because of the 'token' women...and that's what they are, no matter how knowledgeable they may be.

    I would rather get a job based on my ability than my gender.
    You'd turn it off just because members of your own sex are among the pundits? Bit extreme.

    Also your bit about ability contradicts the previous bit about "no matter how knowledgeable they may be". If they are knowledgeable and able to deliver well on TV, isn't that the ability bit covered?

    Joanne Cantwell and Jacqui Hurley are very knowledgeable about GAA I believe, so what's the problem in their cases?


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    #85
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    JRant wrote: »
    Brian Kerr /end thread

    Doesn't matter what bits a commentator has, if they're not Brian Kerr then they're not worth listening too. Should be classified as a national treasure at this stage.

    I like the guy, zero pretentiousness and while you might not always agree with him ( I know I dont ) you know he’s not spouting waffle just to pander to certain demographics and the 2020 ideals of those who are looking to be offended at every fûcking turn...rare in television nowadays, increasingly in sport too.

    Have to say im a big Joanne Cantwell fan, truly somebody who is passionate and knowledgeable and downright good at the job she is doing...


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    #86
    The Orb
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭The Orb


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    It's the same game! The tactics are the same, the formations are the same, the positions are the same, regardless of standard, Alex Scott was a professional with a 10+ year career in the same. You're insulting her and every professional female footballer by suggesting it's like getting 15 year olds to do the punditry. As someone pointed out most managers haven't even played at the highest levels. Experience and knowledge are not the same thing and that was my point when I brought up the football journalists earlier.

    Nominally it's the "same" game but you can't compare a professional career in women's football played in front of crowds in the hundreds with the elite level men's game. No doubt that some ex elite level pros are poor pundits but there is no doubt that any of the females that are appearing on TV now are pure tokens. None of them played a game that is even remotely like the premier league. Even if they know the rules and the tactics that doesn't qualify them to be there. Plenty of people know the theory, that doesn't mean you can talk about elite level participation. Watching panels with successful ex pros having to discuss a game with some token female is a joke, does anyone think that the lads take her seriously, how could they, she has no point of reference or cv. Frankly this sudden imposition of women into the men's game is a joke to satisfy some misguided equality agenda, none of them are there on merit, any achievements they had in the game were at a much much much lower level.


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    #87
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    The way it is now is fine i.e females doing a bit of punditry here and there, commentating on a match no one is too arsed with etc.

    But tbh if I tuned into the champions league final or mens WC final and I heard a woman giving it all that, I’d be fuming.

    Need some George Hamilton or Martin Tyler talking bollocks. Not some wan.


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    #88
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I never said it was ok.

    Because I'm interested in your answer, not interested in scolding someone for making, at best, a joke, or at worst, an attempt to bait you to respond as you did.

    Do you really think it was 'a joke'?

    Why do you think baiting people by making sexist comments should not be challenged, but the people who challenge the sexist comments should be challenged themselves.?

    The pundit gameis a popularity contest. It's nothing to do with sport. Do you think Dunphy or Linekar or Kerr were ever the besth of players?

    Do you believe the Williams sisters are not fit to comment on tennis?

    The pundits role to engage the public (men and women) and extend viewing numbers. This skill is more about personality rather than being the best competitor the world. You dont need to be the best player in the world at any sport to be adequately able to discuss it in a value added manner.

    People here believe women do not have the necessary competencies to comment valuably on a sport they are dedicated to, while at the same time, accepting views of managers who were at best poor, if not players at all. They feel women would be best placed doing what they deem woman things, shopping, or doing embroidery, or nagging. Let's be honest, posters such as I am a Moran would be anhiliated if they started that shopping and embroidery crap in a workplace today.


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    #89
    cj maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,377 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    What's your point? Alex Scott has career spanning more than ten years. What aspect of the men's game do you think she shouldn't be able to comprehend?

    Because the level Alex Scott played for 10years is still far far short/different from the professional men's game. The physical aspect and pressure being under the glare of the worlds media.


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    #90
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    anewme wrote:
    Do you really think it was 'a joke'?

    anewme wrote:
    Why do you think baiting people by making sexist comments should not be challenged, but the people who challenge the sexist comments should be challenged themselves.?

    anewme wrote:
    The pundit game can be a popularity contest. It's nothing to do with sport. Do you think Dunphy or Linekar or Kerr were ever the besth of players?

    anewme wrote:
    Do you believe the Williams sisters are not fit to comment on tennis?

    anewme wrote:
    The pundits role to engage the public (men and women) and extend viewing numbers. This skill is more about personality rather than being the best competitor the world. You dont need to be the best player in the world at any sport to be adequately able to discuss it in a value added manner.

    anewme wrote:
    People here believe women do not have the necessary competencies to comment valuably on a sport they are dedicated to, while at the same time, accepting views of managers who were at best poor, if not players at all. They feel women would be best placed doing what they deem woman things, shopping, or doing embroidery, or nagging. Let's be honest, posters such as I am a Moran would be anhiliated if they started that crap in a workplace today.

    You ask a lot of questions. Can you answer mine first before I tackle any more of yours?

    Are you in favour of "positive" discrimination or do you think it's sexism to get a job purely because of your sex and not your ability?


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    #91
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Ironicname wrote: »
    You ask a lot of questions. Can you answer mine first before I tackle any more of yours?

    Are you in favour of "positive" discrimination or do you think it's sexism to get a job purely because of your sex and not your ability?

    I answered in my post if you read it.

    A pundits job is to engage the public. The public are men and women. The pundits need to understand the mechanics of the sport, not win gold medals on it personally.

    Likewise, the most popular and successful popstars are not those with the best singing ability.


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