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National Hurling League 2020

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    #182
    castletownman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Aren’t Carlow and Kildare playing a lot of underage hurling in Kilkenny now? Granted it’s a long long term thing but it’s the only way to get them near the level of having the speed of thought and skills, the stuff that can’t be coached by an inter county manager. Short term stuff like keeping them in Leinster will do nothing.
    Not sure if other counties have similar foresight (Kerry in Cork/Limerick, Wicklow in Wexford/Dublin, Laois in still, etc but it’s the only way. These teams have the basic skills and you can do fitness, but the speed needs to come from an early age.

    And that is indirectly my point. These counties all fighting for Leinster status are basically in a shortest dwarf competition. Competing at minor level in Kilkenny probably because there isn't enough clubs in the respective counties to be beneficial, and even with that, and a decade of hurling only training they will only be making up the numbers. Its been that way pretty much since the GAA's inception, unfortunately. They would be better served making the Leinster football championship more competitive. Somehow


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    #183
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,718 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    The Joe Mc teams aren't exactly tearing lights up underage. They're clearly not putting in the same effort as tier 1 teams so should they be rewarded with an extra spot?

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #184
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When I’m taking underage I mean clubs at U12 and upwards playing some competitions in neighbouring strong counties. You won’t improve if you can coast past crap in your own county.


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    #185
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,058 ✭✭✭C__MC


    The hurling league has lost its value
    Cork and Dublin sleeping walk their way through and 10 weeks now to get ready for championship.

    Kilkenny tipp galway all doing like wise with only a few regulars about

    Hard to know

    Clare/ limerick and wexford going for it


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    #186
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    C__MC wrote: »
    The hurling league has lost its value
    Cork and Dublin sleeping walk their way through and 10 weeks now to get ready for championship.

    Kilkenny tipp galway all doing like wise with only a few regulars about

    Hard to know

    Clare/ limerick and wexford going for it

    There’s no point in the league now that the championship is a league.


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    #187
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,911 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    C__MC wrote: »
    The hurling league has lost its value
    Cork and Dublin sleeping walk their way through and 10 weeks now to get ready for championship.

    Kilkenny tipp galway all doing like wise with only a few regulars about

    Hard to know

    Clare/ limerick and wexford going for it

    getting into the winning mentality is a good thing and more games can be an advantage


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    #188
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    So Leinster is going to 6 teams next year to accommodate westmeath, offaly, carlow, laois etc. All apart from offaly well beaten this weekend. Will this really improve the championship?

    Next year Leinster will consist of Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway, Laois & whoever gets promoted. How do all 4 of Westmeath, Offaly (who play in a completely different competition) Carlow & Laois benefit from that exactly?


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    #189
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,911 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Chalk McHugh wrote: »
    But why play it in Kilkenny and give your opponents a clear advantage? If O Moore Park was unplayable is there no other ground in Laois to play in or if not play it at another later time. I never heard of a county willingly giving up home advantage like that.

    I see what you're saying

    Its was deemed good enough for a football game


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    #190
    shockframe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭shockframe


    C__MC wrote: »
    The hurling league has lost its value
    Cork and Dublin sleeping walk their way through and 10 weeks now to get ready for championship.

    Kilkenny tipp galway all doing like wise with only a few regulars about

    Hard to know

    Clare/ limerick and wexford going for it

    The hurling has been very dull the last 2 seasons. Some of the games have no pulse.

    The football league is where its at now.


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    #191
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,911 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Fixtures going to be reviewed at the end of the year I think

    Combine league and Championship in some way with separate provincial championships as the warm up competition (look theres tradition and all that but times move on)


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    #192
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Chalk McHugh wrote: »
    But why play it in Kilkenny and give your opponents a clear advantage? If O Moore Park was unplayable is there no other ground in Laois to play in or if not play it at another later time. I never heard of a county willingly giving up home advantage like that.

    Laois v Kilkenny had no bearings on the progression of either team. Kilkenny were pretty much guaranteed a quarter final spot whereas Laois were safe.

    With O’Moore Park in poor condition and the expected bad weather the decision was made midweek to play it in Nowlan Park. I can see Eddies thinking in preparing the Laois lads for a May 17th Leinster SHC tussle.


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    #193
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Aren’t Carlow and Kildare playing a lot of underage hurling in Kilkenny now? Granted it’s a long long term thing but it’s the only way to get them near the level of having the speed of thought and skills, the stuff that can’t be coached by an inter county manager. Short term stuff like keeping them in Leinster will do nothing.
    Not sure if other counties have similar foresight (Kerry in Cork/Limerick, Wicklow in Wexford/Dublin, Laois in Tipp, etc but it’s the only way. These teams have the basic skills and you can do fitness, but the speed needs to come from an early age.

    A few Laois clubs play minor league in Kilkenny in addition to the Laois minor league. This has been going on for nearly two decades now I think.


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    #194
    grbear
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    I don't see any real downside to expanding Leinster to six teams. It's still five rounds of matches so it's not like the championship is being stretched out to some unmanageable monstrosity.

    The Carlow-Kilkenny match last year had an attendance of 7050. What was the last hurling match in Carlow that drew such a crowd? Hosting matches like that, regardless of the result, has to help promote hurling in the county.


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    #195
    Rasputin11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭Rasputin11


    Tyrell called the 3 reds in Thurles well last night. Gleeson should have been a straight red, Moran and Barrett were unlucky.


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    #196
    Chalk McHugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭Chalk McHugh


    Danno wrote: »
    Laois v Kilkenny had no bearings on the progression of either team. Kilkenny were pretty much guaranteed a quarter final spot whereas Laois were safe.

    With O’Moore Park in poor condition and the expected bad weather the decision was made midweek to play it in Nowlan Park. I can see Eddies thinking in preparing the Laois lads for a May 17th Leinster SHC tussle.

    Dont agree with that at all. It was a home Laois fixture and should be played in Laois. The football went ahead in Portlaoise yesterday. Could have been first game of a double header with big crowd. Wanting to play in Nowlan Park in preperation for championship is nonsense as Laois will be well beaten one way or another. Forfeiting home advantage is ridiculous.


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    #197
    Luimneach2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Luimneach2018


    grbear wrote: »
    I don't see any real downside to expanding Leinster to six teams. It's still five rounds of matches so it's not like the championship is being stretched out to some unmanageable monstrosity.

    The Carlow-Kilkenny match last year had an attendance of 7050. What was the last hurling match in Carlow that drew such a crowd? Hosting matches like that, regardless of the result, has to help promote hurling in the county.

    The problem is it panders to this pipe dream that simply playing at a higher level will result in the likes of Carlow / Laois / Westmeath improving and getting closer to the standard of the top 9.

    The reality however that we will most likely end up with something akin to division 1B in the league this year - Kilkenny, Wexford, Clare and Dublin fighting it out for the play off positions, and Carlow and Laois beneath that fighting each other to avoid the relegation spot.

    Swap Galway for Clare above and that's pretty much exactly how the Leinster championship plays out.

    The Joe McDonagh Cup has been an excellent competition and has served its purpose very well. It's unfortunate that any team who won it was almost a certainty to go straight back down but was that really so bad?

    The McDonagh Cup offered an opportunity to play in a competitive competition which culminated in a national final at Croke Park with the finalists being rewarded with a glamour home tie against one of the 3rd placed provincial teams. That's not a bad deal.

    There's no medals for finishing 5th in Leinster, or even scraping 4th. Is a perennial battle to keep your nose above water in Leinster really that much more beneficial than playing in a competitive McDonagh Cup where you have a realistic chance of a medal?

    I've no strong objections given that the counties most likely impacted were unanimously in favour of the change. But to be honest I'd also be in favour of introducing a minimum term of at least 5 years during which format changes cannot be made to inter county hurling competitions. It seems we can't go two, at most three years at a time without making changes to the structures of both the hurling championships and leagues.


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    #198
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Playing in the Leinster Championship for ten years still won’t do what’s needed for the likes of Carlow or Westmeath. That’s the sad reality.


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    #199
    Luimneach2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Luimneach2018


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Playing in the Leinster Championship for ten years still won’t do what’s needed for the likes of Carlow or Westmeath. That’s the sad reality.

    True. It's a "solution" that in no way addresses the underlying problem; a lack of playing numbers and clubs that play hurling within those counties.


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    #200
    Chalk McHugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭Chalk McHugh


    Luimneach2018 wrote: »
    True. It's a "solution" that in no way addresses the underlying problem; a lack of playing numbers and clubs that play hurling within those counties.

    Absolutely. Window dressing is all it is. Doesn't benefit anyone involved. The fact remains there is just 4 Leinster counties that have genuine aspirations of winning Leinster or an All Ireland. The rest, as hard as they try, are nowhere near the 'elite' standard.


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    #201
    grbear
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    Maybe I'm placing too much value on his opinion but my thinking has been influenced heavily by listening to Cheddar Plunkett on The GAA Hour. He has consistently said that the likes of Laois need to be getting more high quality matches if they want to improve. Colm Bonnar has been banging the same drum for Carlow and the Westmeath manager has expressed similar sentiments. If the GAA is serious about growing hurling from a nine team championship into a ten or eleven team championship over the next fifteen to twenty years then the counties most likely to make the step up need to be listened to by the stronger counties. The level of support for this change seems to indicate that's happening. Apart from the 5% nay sayers. Cranky buggers.

    From a Galway perspective the revised championship has been great as we are finally getting consistent home games at Pearse Stadium. There's some griping at board level about Galway not getting a big enough cut of the gate receipts but there's no question that hosting the likes of Wexford in Galway has been a positive development.


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    #202
    Rasputin11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭Rasputin11


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Playing in the Leinster Championship for ten years still won’t do what’s needed for the likes of Carlow or Westmeath. That’s the sad reality.

    20 odd years in the Six Nations hasn't done much for Italy.


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    #203
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Rasputin11 wrote: »
    20 odd years in the Six Nations hasn't done much for Italy.
    not a like for like scenario, Italys best spell was the mid to late 90s before they joined the six nations, they were better than Ireland back then.

    Off topic a pity Limerick Waterford isn't been shown live on eir sport given the original fixture was due to be shown live.


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    #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grbear wrote: »
    Maybe I'm placing too much value on his opinion but my thinking has been influenced heavily by listening to Cheddar Plunkett on The GAA Hour. He has consistently said that the likes of Laois need to be getting more high quality matches if they want to improve. Colm Bonnar has been banging the same drum for Carlow and the Westmeath manager has expressed similar sentiments. If the GAA is serious about growing hurling from a nine team championship into a ten or eleven team championship over the next fifteen to twenty years then the counties most likely to make the step up need to be listened to by the stronger counties. The level of support for this change seems to indicate that's happening. Apart from the 5% nay sayers. Cranky buggers.

    From a Galway perspective the revised championship has been great as we are finally getting consistent home games at Pearse Stadium. There's some griping at board level about Galway not getting a big enough cut of the gate receipts but there's no question that hosting the likes of Wexford in Galway has been a positive development.

    Tend to agree. This has to be a long term project for say Westmeath whereby in ten years their minors are competitive with the other counties and can be fed into the senior set-up.


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    #205
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,718 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Tend to agree. This has to be a long term project for say Westmeath whereby in ten years their minors are competitive with the other counties and can be fed into the senior set-up.

    Westmeath along with Antrim and Offaly probably the most potential, laois will always be decent and Carlow with just 4 senior clubs have little scope for improvement.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #206
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Chalk McHugh wrote: »
    Absolutely. Window dressing is all it is. Doesn't benefit anyone involved. The fact remains there is just 4 Leinster counties that have genuine aspirations of winning Leinster or an All Ireland. The rest, as hard as they try, are nowhere near the 'elite' standard.

    Fourteen years ago Westmeath beat Dublin at Portlaoise in the Leinster Championship quarter finals at Portlaoise by two points. Three years later they were in the 2009 final and lost by 2-00 to Kilkenny, two years later they were back in the final of 2011 and again lost to Kilkenny who were shooting the lights out against all around them in those years - and two years later than that they finally won a final in 2013 by beating Galway by twelve points.

    That same fourteen years ago, Offaly were only two years over their last Leinster final appearance. Nobody that day in May 2006 would have predicted that Dublin would become a force whilst Offaly would slide all the way down to the Christy Ring Championship (the third tier Championship - which was the Nicky Rackard Championship of 2006).

    What is needed (as has been shown by the money and work put into underage hurling in Dublin) is for investment in Laois, Offaly, Carlow and Westmeath hurling to bring those counties up to the standard that today's Dublin team is. Instead, shuffling Galway into Leinster has only papered over this glaring neglect. Galway would be better served in an extended All-Ireland Championship and the Leinster counties behind Dublin would be better served with a shot at their provincial title.


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    #207
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Danno wrote: »

    What is needed (as has been shown by the money and work put into underage hurling in Dublin) is for investment in Laois, Offaly, Carlow and Westmeath hurling to bring those counties up to the standard that today's Dublin team is. Instead, shuffling Galway into Leinster has only papered over this glaring neglect. Galway would be better served in an extended All-Ireland Championship and the Leinster counties behind Dublin would be better served with a shot at their provincial title.


    Dublin hurling would not be the standard these counties should aim foe, hurling is a distant second in club and county right across Dublin and it shows despite the resources put into hurling. The likes of Offaly and Antrim are mostly hurling territories at grass roots they can and should do better.


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    #208
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Bambi wrote: »
    Dublin hurling would not be the standard these counties should aim foe, hurling is a distant second in club and county right across Dublin and it shows despite the resources put into hurling. The likes of Offaly and Antrim are mostly hurling territories at grass roots they can and should do better.

    I’m not saying that is where the counties themselves aim for, obviously they should be aiming to be the best.

    What I’m saying is that outside investment should be funnelled in to these counties until they reach a level in around of where Dublin are at presently.

    You’ve got to establish a cut off point for outside investment and allow the counties to finish the “last mile’ themselves.

    Once outside investment has brought these counties so far, outside investment goes to the next promising set of counties.


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    #209
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,718 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Should be a decent game but hard to look past a comfortable limerick win.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #210
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,718 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    The size and speed of limerick is phenomenal, like the kk team of old.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #211
    letsseehere14
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭letsseehere14


    Is there any redeeming thing about Pearse Stadium?
    From experience a horrible place to get in and out of.
    From watching this and other games from there on TV, the sun always seems blinding and makes it impossible to follow the sliotar and distinguish the teams apart.
    And by the looks of the pitch and what always seems to be a gale force wind trough the place, a horrible place to play a game too.


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