Jordan Peterson interview on C4

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 05:32PM

bluewolf wrote: »

It is a very big problem for women who have dedicated their lives to their sport only to be pushed out and denied opportunities. I thought this was about empathy and compassion?
Do these women not matter because you haven't personally encountered them?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58d280efe4b02d33b7474cfd/amp

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a29578581/rachel-mckinnon-world-championship-masters-win-transgender-sport-debate/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/16/stripped-womens-records-transgender-powerlifter-asks-where-do-we-draw-line/%3foutputType=amp

https://bjj-world.com/transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-breaks-skull-of-her-female-opponent/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pluralist.com/hannah-mouncey-transgender-handball/amp/

Or women who just want to play casually?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/49298550

I'm gay but I've encountered women.

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 05:33PM

20Cent wrote: »

Sporting bodies have rules about trans athletes.
It's not an insurmountable problem or a reason to discriminate.

I feel like a lot of people wish that they did not have those rules as it's just a facade to attack a minority with.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 19-02-2020 05:33PM

Biological male athlete Andraya Yearwood shows those Connecticut girls how it's done:

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 05:33PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Asked you several times to name a single example of a trans athlete competing causing controversy in Ireland and you haven't named a single instance. Asked you if a person who has legally assumed a different gender should be granted access to that bathroom, still no response.

Do we have to wait for these things to happen? If it’s becoming a problem elsewhere, why would Ireland be exempt? Why not take preventative measures?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 05:35PM

20Cent wrote: »

Sporting bodies have rules about trans athletes.
It's not an insurmountable problem or a reason to discriminate.

Well, the IOC tried to row back on the recent changes they made without success. For the 2020 games, all they require is a reduction in testosterone. All other physical advantages remain.

Junkyard Tom · 19-02-2020 05:37PM

The sport thing is just idiotic - what kind of arsehole feels good about themselves winning a race with an 'enhanced chassis' as it were. Can they not create a 'born female' category to flush these people out of women's sport?

19-02-2020 05:38PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The sport thing is just idiotic - what kind of arsehole feels good about themselves winning a race with an 'enhanced chassis' as it were. Can they not create a 'born female' category to flush these people out of women's sport?

That's what they had..

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 05:40PM

bluewolf wrote: »

back to trolling?

Already established that this has not been an issue in Ireland. Already established that any sporting event worth anything at all has measures in place that all athletes must fall in line with.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 19-02-2020 05:41PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

TCan they not create a 'born female' category to flush these people out of women's sport?

No, because a trans woman is just as much of a woman as someone who was born female — if you disagree you're a transphobic bigot.

19-02-2020 05:41PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Already established that this has not been an issue in Ireland. Already established that any sporting event worth anything at all has measures in place that all athletes must fall in line with.

already established that you said you agreed it doesn't work but now you're back to accusing everyone of 'attacking a minority' for feeling the same way. and 'i'm gay but i have encountered women' is what, a wind up?

test levels 2-3x of what any woman would have, and nothing about bone density and all the over advantages of male puberty

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 05:44PM

bluewolf wrote: »

already established that you said you agreed it doesn't work but now you're back to accusing everyone of 'attacking a minority' for feeling the same way

I agree that any athlete competing in an event must fall in line with the rules and regulations of an event. A man turning up one day to a ladies marathon, declaring himself to be a woman to allow him to compete (by the way, the chances of this actually happening are basically minuscule and it feels ridiculous even writing it but apparently this is what some people fear the most!) would fall foul of the sporting bodies regulations. A trans person who has undergone a medical transition and who falls in line with the sporting bodies regulations is free to compete.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 19-02-2020 05:45PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Already established that this has not been an issue in Ireland.

No coronavirus deaths in Ireland, either. Absolutely nothing to worry about then.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 05:45PM

bluewolf wrote: »

the first line of that video is 'i've been told i'm transphobic for liking vagina. who i date is not up for debate'. also followed by 'trans women are women'
seems to be a clickbait title. top comment replies from trans women in full agreement with the message

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dumQfzcrOzk

exactly the same message that got her deplatformed from pride, it looks like

That is a great pithy slogan because here’s the thing: dating is discriminatory by its nature. NOBODY has to justify who they will or won’t date. “I don’t want to date you” is all the explanation anyone is entitled to. That anyone thinks they can question other people’s dating preferences is unbelievable.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 05:47PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The sport thing is just idiotic - what kind of arsehole feels good about themselves winning a race with an 'enhanced chassis' as it were. Can they not create a 'born female' category to flush these people out of women's sport?

But you see, now even biological sex is coming under attack. This is where intersex people get used as examples (even though they can’t change how they were born either).

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 05:47PM

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

No coronavirus deaths in Ireland, either. Absolutely nothing to worry about then.

Have you cut yourself off from the outside world by quarantining yourself yet? Because, if not, maybe you're at risk of catching the coronavirus, and if you care so much about it maybe that's what you should do. Equally, I look forward to seeing so many avid female sports fans discuss female sports in the designated forums over the next few months.

20Cent · 19-02-2020 05:48PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That is a great pithy slogan because here’s the thing: dating is discriminatory by its nature. NOBODY has to justify who they will or won’t date. “I don’t want to date you” is all the explanation anyone is entitled to. That anyone thinks they can question other people’s dating preferences is unbelievable.

It sure is unbelievable.
It's probably about three people in the world saying they should. Using it as an excuse discriminate is bad though.

Will I Am Not · 19-02-2020 05:49PM

“Yeah but how many people do that”?
There’s 2 women’s prisons in Ireland. All it takes is 2 men to identify as women to affect the entire female prison population of the country. So that’s just one more...

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 05:56PM

20Cent wrote: »

They already are.

They already are what? Born without sex?

No one is suggesting that.

I recall seeing some official literature on cervical cancer screening in Ireland that did not mention the word ‘woman’ once. I believe the same has happened in the UK. “What’s the problem?” one might ask. Well, this is about awareness, reaching people. The message shouldn’t be diluted.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 06:05PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

OK then in a non confrontational way as somebody who has supported gay rights and who probably would consider himself a gay ally, where do you stand on trans rights?

Quick edit: I'm not trying to lure you into a trap with the question, I'm genuinely curious coming at it from an angle of if you're liberal enough to have fought for gay rights, I'd just like to know why are trans rights a step too far for you.

Missed this. The trans right I take issue with are those that clash with the rights of others.

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 06:08PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Missed this. The trans right I take issue with are those that clash with the rights of others.

OK so what rights do you believe that they clash with?

20Cent · 19-02-2020 06:11PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

They already are what? Born without sex?

Yes they are called intersex.
Some are born with ambiguous genitalia as well.

There is a famous case of twin boys.
There was an accident when circumcising one of them so the doctor castrated him and made a vagina. He was raised a a girl but when he reached puberty rejected anything feminine and was suicidal with depression. Being male of female isn't down to just genitals.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-11814300

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I recall seeing some official literature on cervical cancer screening in Ireland that did not mention the word ‘woman’ once. I believe the same has happened in the UK. “What’s the problem?” one might ask. Well, this is about awareness, reaching people. The message shouldn’t be diluted.

Whats that got to do with the subject at hand?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 06:13PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Well Permabear how many trans people do you know that are interested in sport from your own personal experience? Is it possible that you're reading a little too much into 1 or 2 stories and you've reached the conclusion that it's a pandemic? Infact would you say that, by and large, you never encounter a transgender person in your life, and, chances are, when you do, you don't even notice? That this sport, prison and bathroom problem is barely a problem at all in the grand scheme of things?

Again, you’re missing the point. There doesn’t have to be many transgender athletes for things to be skewed. Seeing a doughy man top a podium beside honed women neatly highlights this.

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 06:14PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Again, you’re missing the point. There doesn’t have to be many transgender athletes for things to be skewed. Seeing a doughy man top a podium beside honed women neatly highlights this.

No come back to the other question about what rights would be infringed do you think by giving trans people full rights?

19-02-2020 06:15PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

No come back to the other question about what rights would be infringed do you think by giving trans people full rights?

the more original question was what rights are they being denied

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 06:17PM

20Cent wrote: »

Yes they are called intersex.
Some are born with ambiguous genitalia as well.

There is a famous case of twin boys.
There was an accident when circumcising one of them so the doctor castrated him and made a vagina. He was raised a a girl but when he reached puberty rejected anything feminine and was suicidal with depression. Being male of female isn't down to just genitals.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-11814300

He felt like he was a boy and he was born male. I don’t think that really helps your point at all.

As for the bolded, intersex babies are intersex. Most babies are not intersex. And guess what? Intersex babies can’t change their chromosomes either. They are always intersex.

Jeebus. I guess I’m partial as a biology graduate but the poor grasp of basic science by huge swathes of the population never fails to depress me.

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 06:19PM

bluewolf wrote: »

the more original question was what rights are they being denied

Apparently the right to pee anywhere or get changed after a gym session anywhere aside from a dark corridor.

Really though it's simple things and we should be trying to make their lives as easy and as comfortable as ours. Things that we take for granted are things that are everyday problems for them. I suppose ultimately what I'm saying is, if people actually treated trans people in the way in which they speak about them in this thread I'd say that would be despicable, a little bit of empathy, a little bit of consideration for a person whose most likely had a really tough life can go such a long way.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-02-2020 06:19PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

No come back to the other question about what rights would be infringed do you think by giving trans people full rights?

Plenty of come back actually. You’ve been given examples on this thread. Lots.

Women’s rights are encroached to accommodate trans rights.

20Cent · 19-02-2020 06:20PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

He felt like he was a boy and he was born male. I don’t think that really helps your point at all.

As for the bolded, intersex babies are intersex. Most babies are not intersex. And guess what? Intersex babies can’t change their chromosomes either. They are always intersex.

Jeebus. I guess I’m partial as a biology graduate but the poor grasp of basic science by huge swathes of the population never fails to depress me.

She didn't say most babies are intersex.
She said babies are born without sex.
This is true.

He had female genitalia and raised female but his brain was a boys and this caused him great distress to the point of being suicidal. That's the point thought it was clear.

19-02-2020 06:20PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Apparently the right to pee anywhere or get changed after a gym session anywhere aside from a dark corridor.

Really though it's simple things and we should be trying to make their lives as easy and as comfortable as ours. Things that we take for granted are things that are everyday problems for them. I suppose ultimately what I'm saying is, if people actually treated trans people in the way in which they speak about them in this thread I'd say that would be despicable, a little bit of empathy, a little bit of consideration for a person whose most likely had a really tough life can go such a long way.

so... no rights are being denied?

LineOfBeauty · 19-02-2020 06:20PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You’ve been given examples on this thread. Lots.

No but I want yours. Which ones do you think are infringed upon by giving trans people all the rights that you and I have.

Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Comments