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Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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  • Options
    #5102
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Why are you obsessed with athletes in Ireland, specifically? This is not an Ireland-specific concern. The increasing number of biological men competing against women in athletic competitions around the world is widely documented.

    And sports bodies are working on ways to deal with it.
    Simply banning trans people from sports should not be an option.

    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    I already told you that I don't believe it's possible for someone to "assume" a different gender — whether by hormonal, surgical, or legal means.


    Science and the medical community disagree.


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    #5103
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    the first line of that video is 'i've been told i'm transphobic for liking vagina. who i date is not up for debate'. also followed by 'trans women are women'
    seems to be a clickbait title. top comment replies from trans women in full agreement with the message

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dumQfzcrOzk

    exactly the same message that got her deplatformed from pride, it looks like


  • Options
    #5104
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    We live in Ireland. We're on an Irish forum.

    In case you haven't noticed, you're on a thread discussing a Canadian psychology professor's appearance on a British news show. I'm not sure why you think this discussion should be about Ireland?


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    #5105
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    20Cent wrote: »
    Who is requiring you to say things you don't believe?
    trans activist. and it is in this that they diverge from gay rights campaigners. gay rights was live and let live. trans rights is live and let live AND you need to validate someone's dysphoria through language and access to women's spaces, sports etc....can people really not see the difference here?


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    #5106
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    20Cent wrote: »
    You clearly have no idea what the topic of conversation is about.

    I think it's you that doesn't. ;)


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    #5107
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    trans activist. and it is in this that they diverge from gay rights campaigners. gay rights was live and let live. trans rights is live and let live AND you need to validate someone's dysphoria through language and access to women's spaces, sports etc....can people really not see the difference here?

    How are they forcing you?


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    #5108
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    this is the blaire white i'm referring to, some good videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsxK4_FKfc0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPBLyb8H_iE


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    #5109
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    20Cent wrote: »
    How are they forcing you?
    call it coercion. threats to my livelihood if i dont comply. if i were a "terf" on twitter threats of rape and murder. if i were in the uk visits from the police to "check my thinking". banishment from the left if i were JK Rowling.


    for me its about truth.

    if a biological male says/thinks/feels that they are female - does that in fact make them a woman? a woman the same as someone born with a cervix and xx chromosomes?

    i'm sorry but its a bridge too far. i cant force myself to believe this any more than i could force myself to believe in the resurrection or transsubsansiation.


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    #5110
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    bluewolf wrote: »
    this is the blaire white i'm referring to, some good videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsxK4_FKfc0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPBLyb8H_iE

    Isn't, or wasn't Blaire White a very vocal Trump-supporter and anti-feminist? I can't really respect someone who is willing to throw the rest of her community under a bus because she thinks she can make a good living pandering to people who hate and fear every trans person*

    *except her


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    #5111
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    B0jangles wrote: »
    hate and fear every trans person

    so it's either you are either fully on board with all aspects of the transgender movement or you fear and hate all trans people?


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    #5112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    suicide_circus wrote: »

    for me its about truth.

    It's about the subjective versus objective nature of reality..

    They're pulling you into their solipsism..


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    #5113
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    call it coercion. threats to my livelihood if i dont comply. if i were a "terf" on twitter threats of rape and murder. if i were in the uk visits from the police to "check my thinking". banishment from the left if i were JK Rowling.


    for me its about truth.

    if a biological male says/thinks/feels that they are female - does that in fact make them a woman? a woman the same as someone born with a cervix and xx chromosomes?

    i'm sorry but its a bridge too far. i cant force myself to believe this any more than i could force myself to believe in the resurrection or transsubsansiation.

    Out of interest have you ever met a trans person?
    Why are you so afraid of someone you are very unlikely to even meet?
    Even if you do meet one just walk away and don't interact with them no problem.

    Seem to feel very victimized.


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    #5114
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so it's either you are either fully on board with all aspects of the transgender movement or you fear and hate all trans people?


    No, I am talking about the people who actually really do hate and fear trans people. There are plenty of them around the place.

    edit: I just reread my last post and if it comes across that I am saying Bluewolf hates and fears every trans person because she posted a couple of Blaire White videos, that was not my intent at all.


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    #5115
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    20Cent wrote: »
    Out of interest have you ever met a trans person?
    Why are you so afraid of someone you are very unlikely to even meet?
    Even if you do meet one just walk away and don't interact with them no problem.

    Seem to feel very victimized.

    i work along side a trans person and I think they are sound. everyone in the workplace avoids politics/religion as an unspoken rule and i avoid using any pronouns towards this individual where possible but will use their preferred pronoun when necessary in order to keep my job. everyone walks on eggshells around this person which must make them uncomfortable.

    i'm no more a victim than anyone else .


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    #5116
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    B0jangles wrote: »
    No, I am talking about the people who actually really do hate and fear trans people. There are plenty of them around the place.

    fair enough


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    #5117
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i work along side a trans person and I think they are sound. everyone in the workplace avoids politics/religion as an unspoken rule and i avoid using any pronouns towards this individual where possible but will use their preferred pronoun when necessary in order to keep my job. everyone walks on eggshells around this person which must make them uncomfortable.

    i'm no more a victim than anyone else .

    So why do you think they are trans then?


    If they are sound what's the problem using their preferred pronouns.
    Like that's all you have to do, that's a big deal!!
    All workplaces have policies about employees interacting with each other.


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    #5118
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    20Cent wrote: »
    So why do you think they are trans then?


    If they are sound what's the problem using their preferred pronouns.
    Like that's all you have to do, that's a big deal!!
    All workplaces have policies about employees interacting with each other.

    i think they're trans because they used to be called John and now they're called Mary* and Mary looks an awful lot like John

    not real names


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    #5119
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i think they're trans because they used to be called John and now they're called Mary* and Mary looks an awful lot like John

    not real names

    Could they be brother and sister?:D:D


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    #5120
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It's an urge humans demonstrate. The desire to halt change is not new. It's an old story, think accepting gays and gay marriage: people push for change and others push back against it. Those opposed to he change will warn of all the terrible consequences of the change. Then the change happens without all the terrible consequences. Those opposed to the change pretend they were never really opposed to the change. They don't acknowledge the were wrong to oppose the change because the terrible consequences never materialised, they move on to opposing the next change.

    Does anyone remember the opposition to gay marriage? The warnings about all the terrible consequences and knock on effects?

    Some people are just terrified of change and they will find any old reason to oppose changes. Peterson is marketing his products to those people and it's a very successful sales strategy. Fox News is a whole entertainment news station dedicated to the sake audience.

    Fox news will oppose the topic of change of the day and then move on to the next topic. The market exists and people design products to sell to that market.

    It will be a cold day in Hell, dude, the day I accept the change that babies can be said to be born without a sex, as Dawn Butler, a leading labour politician in the UK, just said on national TV.
    It will also be chilly down below the day when I accept the change whereby violent male bodied sex offenders should legitimately be imprisoned with females, as Lisa Nandy, aspiring leader of the UK Labour party just vowed.
    I will never accept the removal of words like mother and woman from biological reality, or that men give birth or that women sire a child.
    I will never accept the medicalisation of young children with pubertal blockers and cross sex hormones as young teens which is a priority of trans activists - AFFIRMATION, they cry. Hormones that shrivel their uteruses, retard penile growth, lower their bone density, increase risk of cancer and heart disease, retard IQ and frontal lobe development etc etc. The devil will be wearing thermals the day I accept such changes and I hope there will be younger people who will hold the line of reason long after I am gone.


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    #5121
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    call it coercion. threats to my livelihood if i dont comply. if i were a "terf" on twitter threats of rape and murder. if i were in the uk visits from the police to "check my thinking". banishment from the left if i were JK Rowling.


    for me its about truth.

    if a biological male says/thinks/feels that they are female - does that in fact make them a woman? a woman the same as someone born with a cervix and xx chromosomes?

    i'm sorry but its a bridge too far. i cant force myself to believe this any more than i could force myself to believe in the resurrection or transsubsansiation.

    A professor at Oxford university has to have security because trans activists have made credible threats against her because of her supposed transphobia . Another thing that "never happens"...

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/education-51248684


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    #5122
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Gynoid wrote: »
    It will be a cold day in Hell, dude, the day I accept the change that babies can be said to be born without a sex, as Dawn Butler, a leading labour politician in the UK, just said on national TV.
    They already are.
    Gynoid wrote: »

    It will also be chilly down below the day when I accept the change whereby violent male bodied sex offenders should legitimately be imprisoned with females, as Lisa Nandy, aspiring leader of the UK Labour party just vowed.
    They aren't
    Gynoid wrote: »
    I will never accept the removal of words like mother and woman from biological reality,
    No one is suggesting that.
    Gynoid wrote: »
    or that men give birth or that women sire a child.
    It happens anyway
    Gynoid wrote: »
    I will never accept the medicalisation of young children with pubertal blockers and cross sex hormones as young teens which is a priority of trans activists - AFFIRMATION, they cry. Hormones that shrivel their uteruses, retard penile growth, lower their bone density, increase risk of cancer and heart disease, retard IQ and frontal lobe development etc etc. The devil will be wearing thermals the day I accept such changes and I hope there will be younger people who will hold the line of reason long after I am gone.
    Maybe leave that to the experts.


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    #5123
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Gynoid wrote: »
    A professor at Oxford university has to have security because trans activists have made credible threats against her because of her supposed transphobia . Another thing that "never happens"...

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/education-51248684

    Unreal.
    Prof Todd said the threats come from some campaigners who believe her views on the need to protect women's spaces, such as single-sex refuges, from people who self-identify as women but are anatomically male are unacceptable.

    The academic said that she has witnessed "quite antagonistic" and "quite confrontational" protests outside women's rights meetings she has spoken at in the past.

    So much for the tolerant, compassionate society these people claim to represent.


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    #5124
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    20Cent wrote: »
    They already are.

    They aren't

    No one is suggesting that.

    It happens anyway

    Maybe leave that to the experts.

    You are incorrect on all of these replies.


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    #5125
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Gynoid wrote: »
    You are incorrect on all of these replies.

    https://i.redd.it/2u8ojszs4dh41.png


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    #5126
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    bluewolf wrote: »
    https://i.redd.it/2u8ojszs4dh41.png

    What's your point?


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    #5127
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Gynoid wrote: »
    You are incorrect on all of these replies.

    Excellent rebuttal.

    I don't believe in people with red hair. See them sometimes but don't believe they actually have red hair.
    The argument is that stupid.


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    #5128
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    20Cent wrote: »
    Since when do people have a right to exclude others because they are uncomfortable with their bodies? Should butch looking women, old women, unattractive women be banned from changing rooms as well?

    No, because non-feminine women still read as women. It’s easy to tell by the way somebody moves at the very least. And of course there’s no problem with older ladies. And none of them are packing.

    An outspoken critic of transwomen in women’s sports is a good example of a non-conforming woman but there’s no mistake - Martina Navratilova is all woman.


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    #5129
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    20Cent wrote: »
    Excellent rebuttal.

    I don't believe in people with red hair. See them sometimes but don't believe they actually have red hair.
    The argument is that stupid.

    You are still incorrect on all points.


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    #5130
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    I'd consider myself left and I'm a member of the LGBTQ community so you'd think transgender issues would play a larger part in my life than the average person but honestly they don't. The only time transgender issues become an issue are when the right tries to turn them into second class citizens. And let's be real about it, if in some alternate reality trans people didn't exist or were outlawed then you can bet the same people on this thread attacking trans people are the same people who would then turn their attention to gays and lesbians because people who are bigoted need a minority group to attack.

    Well, I’m likely in that group on this thread by your estimates and I have supported gay rights my whole life, well, since I was old enough to know what gay was. I’m also left wing. Why do you think it’s all right wing driven? Look at the ructions in the Labour Party in the UK at the moment.


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    #5131
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Well, I’m likely in that group on this thread by your estimates and I have supported gay rights my whole life, well, since I was old enough to know what gay was. I’m also left wing. Why do you think it’s all right wing driven? Look at the ructions in the Labour Party in the UK at the moment.

    OK then in a non confrontational way as somebody who has supported gay rights and who probably would consider himself a gay ally, where do you stand on trans rights?

    Quick edit: I'm not trying to lure you into a trap with the question, I'm genuinely curious coming at it from an angle of if you're liberal enough to have fought for gay rights, I'd just like to know why are trans rights a step too far for you.


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