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Knock/Eirtrade thread

13468918

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    20th 1130

    Spot on. Flight number AF373v departing 9.00z


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭plodder


    Sounds about right on the trip time from Dublin, well I'm presuming you don't leave at rush hour.

    Which runway it lands on entirely depends on the winds, thought I think ideally they will want to use 26 as that has a full cat 2 ILS.
    Is there space to turn an A380 on that runway? Looks tight. If not then I guess it will have to land from the East.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    plodder wrote: »
    Is there space to turn an A380 on that runway? Looks tight. If not then I guess it will have to land from the East.

    It will roll to a stop opposite Bravo, then get towed in. It will be light, so will stop in time.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are right it could change again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    You are right it could change again

    Yep. I've a mate working there as a dispatcher, and my German is rusty, but apparently the Owners want to keep the airframe active, hence the earlier flighplan to the states. Now he's telling me of a 20th departure. There are currently 3 sitting on the ramp, which as you can imagine is drawing quite a crowd at the Eads hanger.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭plodder


    greenpilot wrote: »
    It will roll to a stop opposite Bravo, then get towed in. It will be light, so will stop in time.
    Yeah, was just wondering what if it had to land from the West. Then it would have to turn 180 deg on the runway which might not be possible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    plodder wrote: »
    Yeah, was just wondering what if it had to land from the West. Then it would have to turn 180 deg on the runway which might not be possible.

    Flight plan takes weather and all these factors into account. It's a 2400x45m runway which A380 operates on round the world. This isn't regular heavy operations so it's more to do with wingspan, engine object clearance and taxiway curve/widths. If previous fully laden 747s managed to turn on the old runway, I think they can handle an empty A380 with the large turn pads and extensions added at at both ends since then (+ towing... should the need arise).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭Connacht


    Neworder79 wrote: »
    eikn-ariel-labels2.jpg


    If photography is important there are a few spots people use outside the Perimeter fence:

    A- Main 26 approach (form East) lights/turnpad, good for overhead and elevated view over the countryside. Narrow local road so could park on the lay-by on the main access road and few min walk.

    B- Local road passes 08 (from West) approach/fire training area, not best for photos.

    C- Local cul-de-sac leading to perimeter fence/VOR. Good views for runway touchdown/airport in backdrop but limited car space.

    --

    D- The airport has a good viewing lounge on 1st floor for 26 approaches and main apron, you can partly see second apron with bar/cafe/parking bonus.

    E- Hangar area normally accessible, but road could be restricted if crowds turned up.

    E is not accessible. There is a locked gate immediately to the right of the E on map.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Connacht wrote: »
    E is not accessible. There is a locked gate immediately to the right of the E on map.

    Correct. It's best to give the Eirtrade hanger a wide berth to let them get on with things IF, and that's a big if, an aircraft arrives. Otherwise things may tighten up for spotters etc. Id stay away from that gate. The other spora are all good. I shot the film, One day at Knock from a gatepost on the south side of the runway with excellent results as the sun is shining right along the side of any arriving aircraft. You just need a good ND filter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Thursday now, no time yet.

    Hi,

    Would you mind pm ing me. I have news.

    P.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Hi,

    Would you mind pm ing me. I have news.

    P.

    share with us all :D


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    share with us all :D

    Basically folks it’s on and off more times than a light switch. It seems my source is close if not the same as Greenpilots so if he posts with info then it’s good.

    Bear in mind that their is probably many different plates spinning to get this aircraft moved between weather, pilots, certs, technically and logistically ready, airport readiness, sign off by authorities, insurers etc that for it to get the go ahead each time the window is small.

    Don’t hate the players , hate the game. Just pray it doesn’t arrive when it’s dark.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,346 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    I think that this thread is more fun than actually watching the aircraft arrive. Thank you all :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Whats the story with the pilots on an event like this. Are they freelance? Or who do they work for?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭Lurching


    Whats the story with the pilots on an event like this. Are they freelance? Or who do they work for?

    My guess is that the lease doesn't close until the aircraft is in its final location.
    If the leasing company had to organise pilots, insurance, AOC etc on their own, it'd be a real balls.
    That being the case, the aircraft would ferry to Ireland under Air France insurance and AOC with their own pilots.


  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭masit


    God, the wife is going to kill me if this plane does not arrive soon. Planned to go away Friday, changed plans, now she wants to go away Thursday. Don't think I'll get changing again!!!! Hopefully I'll get a chance to see it. First A380 up close


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Seems to be great interest in this aircraft. You'd think the airport or eirtrade would just setup a sign posted viewing position for it and give dates and times and be done with it.

    It's probably a once off and a bit of good publicity. The secrecy is a bit.... Well ... Stupid.

    I can understand local spotters not wanting to give away there spots etc etc as is their right. but if the airport just made a bit of a public occasion it would be sensible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,951 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    listermint wrote: »
    Seems to be great interest in this aircraft. You'd think the airport or eirtrade would just setup a sign posted viewing position for it and give dates and times and be done with it.

    It's probably a once off and a bit of good publicity. The secrecy is a bit.... Well ... Stupid.

    I can understand local spotters not wanting to give away there spots etc etc as is their right. but if the airport just made a bit of a public occasion it would be sensible.

    The issue is though, as has been seen on this thread, is that plans can change until the last minute. The airport could make a fanfare about it but at the last minute the flight could be delayed/cancelled. There’d be families with kids etc on the way to the airport, the bad PR wouldn’t be worth it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    Ryanair should pick up a few 380s on the cheap and start their USA service.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭P.lane78


    Jeez the Ryanair cabin crew cleaning a 380 in 20 minutes ��


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,572 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    Ryanair should pick up a few 380s on the cheap and start their USA service.

    These things really must be money pits when they are going for scrap this early.
    Ryanair would surely be looking for something more common.
    Would be funny if they did buy a few and made a killing on them.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    mickdw wrote: »
    These things really must be money pits when they are going for scrap this early.
    Ryanair would surely be looking for something more common.
    Would be funny if they did buy a few and made a killing on them.
    All Economy class too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    5/5 layout throughout the cabin


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    You would wonder. 868 pax. on something like LHR JFK?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Yep. I've a mate working there as a dispatcher, and my German is rusty, but apparently the Owners want to keep the airframe active, hence the earlier flighplan to the states. Now he's telling me of a 20th departure. There are currently 3 sitting on the ramp, which as you can imagine is drawing quite a crowd at the Eads hanger.

    VHOQA ex Qantas has been pulled into the Eads hanger, which is apparently the second A380 due to Knock. My source says F-HPJB has been moved back out to the ramp. He's still going with the 20th, departing 9.00z but, as mentioned by our other poster with contacts this is not concrete so don't go making unnecessary journeys!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭hopeso


    greenpilot wrote: »
    VHOQA ex Qantas has been pulled into the Eads hanger, which is apparently the second A380 due to Knock. My source says F-HPJB has been moved back out to the ramp. He's still going with the 20th, departing 9.00z but, as mentioned by our other poster with contacts this is not concrete so don't go making unnecessary journeys!

    Once again, thanks for the update!

    I saw it somewhere recently that Qantas have no plans to get rid of any A380's, and that any at Dresden are going to be refurbished.

    A quick search found this link..... https://simpleflying.com/qantas-a380-fleet-refurbishment/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Ok. Just got word from Dresden, as of 20mins ago, all attempts to make the aircraft commercially airworthy have failed and AF have now released the aircraft to the Owners, Dr. P. and will be shipped to be scrapped. I have a time and day, but I cannot post anything just yet to be fair to a number of people including my good friend in Dresden.
    I'm sure details will be released by the parties concerned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Ok. Just got word from Dresden, as of 20mins ago, all attempts to make the aircraft commercially airworthy have failed and AF have now released the aircraft to the Owners, Dr. P. and will be shipped to be scrapped. I have a time and day, but I cannot post anything just yet to be fair to a number of people including my good friend in Dresden.
    I'm sure details will be released by the parties concerned.

    Thanks,appreciated.
    Really feel silly at this point, after so many posts here...

    At least,can you confirm WHEN can you post "anything yet" as i am fcuking sick of how many days and times and hours i asked for time off.
    And my junior drives me nuts every day, every hour...

    Take care.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭hopeso


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Ok. Just got word from Dresden, as of 20mins ago, all attempts to make the aircraft commercially airworthy have failed and AF have now released the aircraft to the Owners, Dr. P. and will be shipped to be scrapped. I have a time and day, but I cannot post anything just yet to be fair to a number of people including my good friend in Dresden.
    I'm sure details will be released by the parties concerned.

    Needless to say, but do update us as soon as you feel you are able to......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    rolion wrote: »
    Thanks,appreciated.
    Really feel silly at this point, after so many posts here...

    At least,can you confirm WHEN can you post "anything yet" as i am fcuking sick of how many days and times and hours i asked for time off.
    And my junior drives me nuts every day, every hour...

    Take care.

    Its definitely this week. They keep changing the time, which is the issue. The spotters page have the same Info as I'm sharing it with them but we dont want to post something, have loads of folks and excited kids travel long distances to get here and then a no show. My source tells me that as soon as he sees an APU running and beacons turning and sees a flighplan, he will ring me. That gives folks 2 hours to get here on whatever day it runs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Does anybody know what happens to the fuel that's left in it when they scrap them...?
    No reason, asking for a friend of a friend, and his friend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 429 ✭✭Manuel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭plodder


    I suppose it's not like a rental car, where you have to return it with the tank full .. :pac:

    All the same, with safety reserves etc, there'd still be a fair amount of it in a plane that size.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    Does anybody know what happens to the fuel that's left in it when they scrap them...?
    No reason, asking for a friend of a friend, and his friend.

    I assume they would just drain it off and sell it to the next plane that needs fuel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    easypazz wrote: »
    I assume they would just drain it off and sell it to the next plane that needs fuel.

    You can't do that, fuel that comes off one aeroplane can't be used on another aeroplane because of the risk of microbiological contamination of the fuel in the tank and the possibility of cross contaminating another aircraft. Some operators are not as thorough as others when it comes to measures to prevent contamination, for that reason no operator would accept fuel that had been in another operator's aircraft and no fuel company would offer it to you. In some cases the fuel company will allow drained fuel from one aircraft in an operator's fleet to be reused on another aircraft within the fleet but in a lot of cases they won't even drain fuel into their normal bowsers because of the risk but they will drain them into waste bowsers that they don't use for refuelling but the fuel would have to be disposed of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Does anybody know what happens to the fuel that's left in it when they scrap them...?
    No reason, asking for a friend of a friend, and his friend.

    The lads who drain it dont need to pay for home heating oil for quite a while....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭Lurching


    plodder wrote: »
    All the same, with safety reserves etc, there'd still be a fair amount of it in a plane that size.

    I wonder what the standard reserves would be on an aircraft like that?
    A bit of googling tells me they burn 13.5T of fuel an hour at cruise.
    With enough fuel for an alternative airport and a reserve, surely they'd plan to have at least an hour or two on-board when landing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Thursday. Departing either 9.00z DRS/ETA NOC 11.30 or Departing DRS 13.30/ETA NOC 16.30 for longer, controlled flight.
    There are some regulatory issues to be cleared up and again all this may change.
    It had a lot of work done in the Eads hanger which has a lot of folks scratching their heads Germany-side now that's it's destined for scrapping. This is the latest info to hand. Again. This may change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    All my stalking of this page has meant Google alerts popped this on my news feed this evening.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/mro/fuselage-of-first-airline-a380-recycled-into-identity-tags/136812.article

    That's a depressing vista for such a machine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭General Disarray


    Lurching wrote: »
    I wonder what the standard reserves would be on an aircraft like that?
    A bit of googling tells me they burn 13.5T of fuel an hour at cruise.
    With enough fuel for an alternative airport and a reserve, surely they'd plan to have at least an hour or two on-board when landing?
    Legal minimum Final Reserve (30 mins) on landing of about 5,000kgs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭Lurching


    Legal minimum Final Reserve (30 mins) on landing of about 5,000kgs.

    Do they need to factor an alternative airport on top of this also?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭plodder


    Lurching wrote: »
    Do they need to factor an alternative airport on top of this also?
    Was just going to ask that. It doesn't sound like huge quantities either way though and not enough to heat all the homes in Knock or Charlestown for a Winter anyway.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lurching wrote: »
    Do they need to factor an alternative airport on top of this also?

    Yes you would need to bring enough fuel to get to your nearest suitable alternate plus a minimum of 30 minutes reserve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 779 ✭✭✭SNNUS


    They will calculate to have minimum arrival fuel + holding amount + alternate fuel ( like a diversion to SNN as an example) so it will arrive with a nice amount of fuel remaining.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,572 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    1 hours fuel remaining on landing could be something like 17000L- would keep a few houses going for the winter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭Dickerty


    All my stalking of this page has meant Google alerts popped this on my news feed this evening.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/mro/fuselage-of-first-airline-a380-recycled-into-identity-tags/136812.article

    That's a depressing vista for such a machine.

    Limited edition of 7000 at €28 a pop, already sold out. There is money in scrap!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭Lurching


    Dickerty wrote: »
    Limited edition of 7000 at €28 a pop, already sold out. There is money in scrap!

    It's amazing what crap you can sell just by putting "limited edition" in front of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    You can't do that, fuel that comes off one aeroplane can't be used on another aeroplane because of the risk of microbiological contamination of the fuel in the tank and the possibility of cross contaminating another aircraft. Some operators are not as thorough as others when it comes to measures to prevent contamination, for that reason no operator would accept fuel that had been in another operator's aircraft and no fuel company would offer it to you. In some cases the fuel company will allow drained fuel from one aircraft in an operator's fleet to be reused on another aircraft within the fleet but in a lot of cases they won't even drain fuel into their normal bowsers because of the risk but they will drain them into waste bowsers that they don't use for refuelling but the fuel would have to be disposed of.

    May not be connected but its happening at bigger houses too:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/19/boeing-737-max-debris-found-in-fuel-tanks-of-grounded-planes

    Boeing has ordered inspections of its entire fleet of grounded 737 Max planes after it found debris in the fuel tanks of some of the aircraft, in the latest setback for the US plane-maker.

    The specialist aviation blog Leeham News, which first reported the discovery of the “foreign object debris” (FOD), said it was unlikely that the inspections would delay the recertification of the jets. However, it will take up to three days to inspect each plane because fuel must be drained and vapours dissipated before the fuel tanks can be opened.

    Mark Jenks, the general manager of the 737 programme, said in a memo to employees that the debris was “absolutely unacceptable” and that the company was taking steps to address the problem in its production system.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    rolion wrote: »
    May not be connected but its happening at bigger houses too:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/19/boeing-737-max-debris-found-in-fuel-tanks-of-grounded-planes

    Boeing has ordered inspections of its entire fleet of grounded 737 Max planes after it found debris in the fuel tanks of some of the aircraft, in the latest setback for the US plane-maker.

    The specialist aviation blog Leeham News, which first reported the discovery of the “foreign object debris” (FOD), said it was unlikely that the inspections would delay the recertification of the jets. However, it will take up to three days to inspect each plane because fuel must be drained and vapours dissipated before the fuel tanks can be opened.

    Mark Jenks, the general manager of the 737 programme, said in a memo to employees that the debris was “absolutely unacceptable” and that the company was taking steps to address the problem in its production system.

    FOD is nothing new though in many airframs, the KC-46A has been plagued by this for example.
    However, it will take up to three days to inspect each plane because fuel must be drained and vapours dissipated before the fuel tanks can be opened.

    I would have thought that the majority of the MAXs would have been drained down before being put into storage, or are they kept with a but of fuel and run now and then? Come to think of it I seem to recall the storage criteria required engine start up and runs at certain times (monthly perhaps?).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Hello fellow Fleugfeen,


    The flight has been cancelled.


    Just kidding. (Couldn't help myself there..;))

    Word from my Germanic Gentlemen is that tomorrow is still a go. BUT, we will have final word early in the morning...

    As soon as I get word/ pictorial evidence of movement at DRS, I'll post it here.

    Have a wonderful evening, I seriously hope the weather Improves. It has been constantly raining here at the Airport all day, and tomorrows weather just gives a narrow window of opportunity.


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