“Your father works for my father”

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Seriously, I know many rugby fans are in denial but can we call a spade a a spade and just accept that rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week, the article in the IT, the fake south Dublin accents, the aping of the Tory boy mentality in England, the entire post colonial mentality. This is why Irish rugby team will never win a World Cup, because the players derive mostly from private fee paying schools and they just don’t have the grit or toughness. Fan boys on here will argue that this topic has been covered before and try and brush it off but these type of incidents keep popping up that they cannot just be pushed aside, if you are a real rugby fan you have to address this issue.

Article is here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/your-father-works-for-my-father-schools-rugby-turning-toxic-in-the-stands-1.4172843

I've spent way too Mich time since I joined this site 9 years ago.... discussing this kind of thing.
Rugby is considered by some to be that and the whole coverage of the schools cups dorsnt help the sport in some areas
That you can be a teenager in many parts of Dublin and if interested in playing rugby struggle to find a team to play on as many clubs dont field teams for teenagers doesnt help the sport at all expand
I dont care if we dont ever win a world cup. If we finally win a knockout cup game I will be happy for a start.
I dont think players primarily coming from fee paying schools in some areas is reason Ireland hasn't done as well as we could have in world cups but irfu and provinces are doing a lot to expand playing numbers across the country and are putting in initiatives to get more playing the sport and progress to pro level. Munster launched their u16/18 club competitions today as they get close to knockout stages. This has expanded year on year and getting stronger in quality every year as well. Numbers of pros emerging after having played in it increasing all the time. Same can be said for all provinces.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

that is completely untrue. Rugby played at grassroots all over Ireland from connemara gaeltacht to the cities. New clubs and more underage teams fielding every single season. More schoosl starting to play the sport.

awec wrote: »

Not sure if people realise or not but the author of the article is not some rugby-hating inverse snob, in fact he used to work for the IRFU and without question knows his stuff.

This "your father works for my father" and "we pay fees" stuff is actually cringeworthy.

yeah used to work in refs department
Loads of stuff at schools rugby games are cringeworthy its same at all these games whatever the sport except the gaa including harry cup just doesnt get near same level of coverage in media

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'd like you to explain your opinion on what the election results last week mean in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future.

It's your thread, you're the one that claimed there's a link, so I'd like to hear what the link is, and your thought process around it.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

For starters, it’s not my thread I just started it.

That makes it your thread.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Second, why are you so defensive on the issue?

I have no idea why asking you to explain your assertions is being 'so defensive' but okidoke.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

There is an irrefutable correlation (or causation) between rugby and perceived privilege in Ireland particularly in Dublin. That is a a fact. How many schools in Darndale, Coolock or outside or D2, D4 in Dublin play rugby as their primary sport? I find it incredulous that people still try to deny it.

Third, it’s the only sport I know that is not interested in reaching out to new players. Rugby doesn’t actually want players from other communities! They want to keep it in that bubble. They are the only organisation that I’m aware of that doesn’t want to branch out. Even the scouts go into working class communities but rugby, no thanks.
That’s the reason why they will never win a World Cup. They rely on privileged kids who never had to dig deep, so when they come up against lads from Oz or NZ they just get smashed and sent packing.

None of this has anything to do with the election results. It's outdated, stereotypical and plain incorrect in parts, and is neither irrefutable nor a fact, but I won't be replying to it as it's nothing to do with the election results, which is what I asked you to explain.

What do the election results have to do with the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future?

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

For starters, it’s not my thread I just started it.

Second, why are you so defensive on the issue? There is an irrefutable correlation (or causation) between rugby and perceived privilege in Ireland particularly in Dublin. That is a a fact. How many schools in Darndale, Coolock or outside or D2, D4 in Dublin play rugby as their primary sport? I find it incredulous that people still try to deny it.

Third, it’s the only sport I know that is not interested in reaching out to new players. Rugby doesn’t actually want players from other communities! They want to keep it in that bubble. They are the only organisation that I’m aware of that doesn’t want to branch out. Even the scouts go into working class communities but rugby, no thanks.
That’s the reason why they will never win a World Cup. They rely on privileged kids who never had to dig deep, so when they come up against lads from Oz or NZ they just get smashed and sent packing.

you started the thread ergo it's your thread.....
The rugby is elitist argument is extremely outdated especially if you actually look at the sport as a whole nationwide. Look at majority of people playing/coaching/involved in the sport nationwide.
You just havent a clue if you think rugby isnt in reaching out to new people. The whole structure with development officers going into schools and getting kids into clubs is all about bringing sport to new areas and more people.

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Over €200 for a six nations match ticket is pretty elitist though

https://www.viagogo.ie/Sports-Tickets/Rugby-Union/Guinness-Six-Nations-Tickets/E-3615083Over

you reference a touting/reselling site when tickets were sold officially for less than half that price

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Tickets not available from aviva stadium site and this is the last game of the 6N there. Having searched before the Wales game on the aviva stadium site, even the nosebleeds were higher priced. This site isn’t actually more expensive hence why I posted it

because they were sold out from official channels well in advance of the game no tickets would have been priced higher or near that price on any site connected to the irfu

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Agree, such a site is not the best reference. However , Have a look at the official sites next year when the time comes around again. There is no need to be in denial that ticket costs for a six nations match is incredibly over priced however

over priced. Not at all. Demand dictates price and there is plenty tickets considerably lower even if they are restricted view seats.
What would you see as reasonable price any way?

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Tickets not available from aviva stadium site and this is the last game of the 6N there. Having searched before the Wales game on the aviva stadium site, even the nosebleeds were higher priced. This site isn’t actually more expensive hence why I posted it

Ticket master had tickets available yesterday priced at €80 for the Ireland Italy game so to quote viagogo as a basis for price is wrong, viagogo will charge what they feel the market is willing to pay, supply and demand.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

This is so very totally and completely untrue. Rugby's popularity throughout the country is enormous. Kids are playing it in clubs all over the country every weekend in pretty huge numbers. We have professional players in every province who came through grass roots clubs.

Also, you're attempt to link the debate to the elections seems odd. McDonald is a Trinity graduate living in an expensive house. O'Brón is a BlackRock alum and Trinity graduate too. SF is a party led by privileged people as much, if not more so, than other parties.

I'm afraid the entire basis of whatever point you are trying to make is founded on a basic lack of understanding of the facts.

Growing up I heard this being said at hurling matches in kilkenny between public schools. It happens everywhere in all sports.

The whole thing is bull**** to feed the rugby hating morons out there.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Par for the course for a lot of these guys.

It stems from jealously from gaa and soccer zealots at the growing popularity of rugby here, the excellent organisation of the sport across the board, and the revenue generation opportunities.

Anyone involved in the sport at grassroots level knows the days of it being a "privileged" sport ended in the 80s

more people play football than gaa football , rugby and hurling combined, why would football be jealous of the minority sports?

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

For starters, it’s not my thread I just started it.

Second, why are you so defensive on the issue? There is an irrefutable correlation (or causation) between rugby and perceived privilege in Ireland particularly in Dublin. That is a a fact. How many schools in Darndale, Coolock or outside or D2, D4 in Dublin play rugby as their primary sport? I find it incredulous that people still try to deny it.

Third, it’s the only sport I know that is not interested in reaching out to new players. Rugby doesn’t actually want players from other communities! They want to keep it in that bubble. They are the only organisation that I’m aware of that doesn’t want to branch out. Even the scouts go into working class communities but rugby, no thanks.
That’s the reason why they will never win a World Cup. They rely on privileged kids who never had to dig deep, so when they come up against lads from Oz or NZ they just get smashed and sent packing.

From my experience living in NZ and working around rugby, a lot of the North Island kids from less privileged backgrounds play rugby league rather than union. The best rugby schools in NZ are quite privileged and even if they're non fee paying like, Wellington College, they mainly take kids from the wealthy catchment areas.

So you're argument about NZ and Aus is a load of ****e too

RoversCeltic wrote: »

what percentage of Irish schoolkids go to fee paying schools and what percentage of the failed irish rugby team went to fee paying schools?

If the Irish rugby team is "failed" then what would you call the soccer team?

smelly sock wrote: »

In Ireland, especially Leinter the game is 100% elitist. In order to represemt your province or country its nearly a prequisite to habe attended a fee paying private school.

The goys.

False. But then if you knew even a tiny bit about what you were talking about your know that to be true.

In fairness, it is entertaining reading these posts of people trying to sound knowledgable but in reality bot having a clue. Please keep it up.