Flightshaming to London from Dublin

machaseh · 04-02-2020 02:11PM

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

The P&O ferries to liverpool doesn't even take foot passengers

Do they have a bus service though?

I have never been to liverpool, but it sounds insane for me to fly such a short distance when there's a direct ferry. I do not have a car and do not drive.

L1011 · 04-02-2020 02:19PM

machaseh wrote: »

Do they have a bus service though?

I have never been to liverpool, but it sounds insane for me to fly such a short distance when there's a direct ferry. I do not have a car and do not drive.

No, and it's a very slow ferry. Swift and rail from Holyhead would well beat it.

Johnny Sausage · 04-02-2020 02:24PM

L1011 wrote: »

No, and it's a very slow ferry. Swift and rail from Holyhead would well beat it.

Eurolines have a bus, 52e and takes 7 and a half hours via Holyhead and Warrington.

if you arent flying or driving and arent pushed for time the sail rail and change to merseyrail at chester is grand

cnocbui · 04-02-2020 02:25PM

Flightshaming. Nice try, but I have no shame and will fly whenever it pleases me and not feel a scintilla of shame or remorse.

machaseh · 04-02-2020 02:53PM

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

Eurolines have a bus, 52e and takes 7 and a half hours via Holyhead and Warrington.

if you arent flying or driving and arent pushed for time the sail rail and change to merseyrail at chester is grand

Okay so basically the airplane is the only feasible option for liverpool. What a ridiculous situation.

Why not make a proper ferry to liverpool ! It's so close by.

Sam Russell · 04-02-2020 03:01PM

machaseh wrote: »

Okay so basically the airplane is the only feasible option for liverpool. What a ridiculous situation.

Why not make a proper ferry to liverpool ! It's so close by.

I don't think Liverpool is that nearby because they have locks guarding the port that delays the ferry quite a bit. Birkenhead might be better. That is where the cattle boats used to go, I think.

Johnny Sausage · 04-02-2020 03:05PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I don't think Liverpool is that nearby because they have locks guarding the port that delays the ferry quite a bit. Birkenhead might be better. That is where the cattle boats used to go, I think.

Stenaline go from Belfast to Birkenhead, takes about 8 hours as well

Thelonious Monk · 04-02-2020 03:30PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Flightshaming. Nice try, but I have no shame and will fly whenever it pleases me and not feel a scintilla of shame or remorse.

well you should try and think about your actions and the effects they have on the planet, we all should. You wont though, like most people, and that is why we are f*cked as a species.

L1011 · 04-02-2020 03:35PM

machaseh wrote: »

Okay so basically the airplane is the only feasible option for liverpool. What a ridiculous situation.

Why not make a proper ferry to liverpool ! It's so close by.

Because passenger demand is not sufficient to spend hundreds of millions on a fast ferry, foot passenger terminals etc and then deal with the rolling cancellations fast ferries have in bad weather.

Stevieluvsye · 04-02-2020 04:01PM

machaseh wrote: »

Okay so basically the airplane is the only feasible option for liverpool. What a ridiculous situation.

Why not make a proper ferry to liverpool ! It's so close by.

They used to when flights were expensive.

I used to get it once a month to go to Cream when it was open in Liverpool. Good, cheap service that took you in to LPL docks

Brian CivilEng · 04-02-2020 04:06PM

machaseh wrote: »

I could do that too, but then it would only be a bit quicker and a LOT more expensive.

For that price I could take KLM or Aer Lingus return in business class easily.

€47 each way?

Brian CivilEng · 04-02-2020 04:29PM

Just looked at the schedules for travelling Dublin to Amsterdam in a day, if they tried to make it more awkward they couldn't.

Taking the 08:15 Ulysses will get you in to Holyhead at 11:30. Train to London is at 12:53 which will get you to Euston at 16:36. Direct Eurostar to Amsterdam is at 17:16. Would get you there by 22:11 local time, but don't think that 40mins is enough to get you from Euston to St. Pancras and then through security and immigration. (Cost would be €47 + £35).

So ok, get the 02:15 Stenaline to Holyhead, train to London at 06:55 gets you to Euston at 10:37. Next train to Amsterdam is at 11:04, no chance of that. So hang around London all day until the 17:16.

Would be fun, but jeepers those timings are insane. Meanwhile I could fly to Amsterdam on Ryanair tomorrow at a sane hour for €35.

Dublin to Paris or Brussels would be doable in a day from the 08:15 ferry. Amsterdam... not until HS2 I think.

cnocbui · 04-02-2020 04:34PM

Seriously? People think catching a ferry has a lower CO2 consequence than flying?

magicbastarder · 04-02-2020 04:41PM

not only do people here think that, other people do too:

crisco10 wrote: »

The British government have a fairly comprehensive dataset of emission factors for various types of transport titled "UK Government GHG Conversion Factors for Company Reporting"

Here's a few highlights:

Emission Factor (kgCO2 e) per km Comment
Short Haul Flight 0.16 Accounts for CO2 being emitted at altitude
Ferry - Foot Passenger 0.02
Ferry - Car Passenger 0.13
Coach 0.03
National Rail 0.04

Cruise ships aren't listed, but are significantly worse than ferries because they carry around all the facilities that are unnecessary. E.g. multiple swimming pools!

whisky_galore · 04-02-2020 04:45PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Seriously? People think catching a ferry has a lower CO2 consequence than flying?

Who cares? It's hardly like either of them will be cancelled if you choose not to travel.

AAAAAAAAA · 04-02-2020 04:50PM

Thisonedone wrote: »

The boring company have been fairly quiet recently, are they making much progress? They claim they can tunnel at a fraction of the cost of the current crowd.

They can tunnel at a fraction of the cost of a traditional tunnel because they are tunnelling a fraction of the cross sectional area of the tunnels they are comparing their projects to!

cnocbui · 04-02-2020 05:23PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

not only do people here think that, other people do too:

Depends where you look. I'll bet the passenger ferry data is distorted by freight and vehicles.

Is cruising any greener than flying?

George Monbiot, environmental campaigner and author

“There are remarkably few figures. But George Marshall of the Climate Outreach Information Network has conducted a rough initial calculation for the Queen Elizabeth II. Cunard says the ship burns 433 tonnes of fuel a day, and takes six days to travel from Southampton to New York. If the ship is full, every passenger with a return ticket consumes 2.9 tonnes. A tonne of shipping fuel contains 0.85 tonnes of carbon, which produces 3.1 tonnes of carbon dioxide when it is burnt. Every passenger is responsible for 9.1 tonnes of emissions. Travelling to New York and back on the QEII, in other words, uses almost 7.6 times as much carbon as making the same journey by plane.”

What about travelling by boat?

The BEIS has also put a figure on ferry transport - 18g of CO2 per passenger kilometre for a foot passenger, which is less than a coach, or 128g for a driver and car, which is more like a long-haul flight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49349566

And if you look at that article, you would note that a car with one passenger emits more CO2 per km than taking a domestic flight.

Here are the five most environmentally harmful ways to travel:

1 Large RoPax ferry: 0.85lb CO2 per km/0.6 miles
2 Long-haul flight, first class: 0.71lb CO2 per km/0.6 miles

https://www.salon.com/2017/08/30/planes-trains-or-automobiles-what-will-the-most-carbon-efficient-way-to-travel_partner/

magicbastarder · 04-02-2020 06:13PM

using the QE2 as a benchmark is hardly fair, though?
it's a 50+ year old luxury vessel (now parked up as a floating hotel).
it's significantly heavier than the ulysses, and has a lower passenger capacity - and that's not even allowing for the ulysses *also* being able to take over 1,000 cars and/or (not sure which it is) 200 trucks.

Brian CivilEng · 04-02-2020 06:16PM

Also when comparing emissions per km, Dublin to Holyhead is sufficiently fewer than Dublin to London. The train journey the rest of the way definitely has a lower carbon footprint to a plane.

quokula · 04-02-2020 06:28PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Who cares? It's hardly like either of them will be cancelled if you choose not to travel.

If enough people change their habits then Ryanair aren't going to keep flying half empty planes back and forth at a loss.

There is an argument that ferry foot passengers are effectively free though, as the ferry schedule will always be dictated by the demand from trucks and cars.

easypazz · 04-02-2020 06:34PM

Can we not have nuclear powered ferries?

Same as nuclear subs and aircraft carriers?

ednwireland · 04-02-2020 06:36PM

ive been ferry and drive (donegal to yorkshire and back) 4 times in the last year

flying uncluding getting to airport 2hours before is usually about 1 hour quicker, i have to drive at teh bothe ends anyway.

including hire car costs its about 100 euro cheaper to fly than to get a return ferry (i never seem to get those really cheap flights)

the ferry is a lot less stressful (when you have your car with you !)

whisky_galore · 04-02-2020 06:48PM

quokula wrote: »

If enough people change their habits then Ryanair aren't going to keep flying half empty planes back and forth at a loss.

There is an argument that ferry foot passengers are effectively free though, as the ferry schedule will always be dictated by the demand from trucks and cars.

People won't change, not while the sailing option is pretty shyte.

quokula · 04-02-2020 07:03PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

People won't change, not while the sailing option is pretty shyte.

Not many will switch to ferry, but some may consider it worthwhile (hence this thread) and many more will simply try to travel to London less often. My job involves flying to London regularly and I've specifically made it a goal this year to cut down the number of flights (by batching things together and staying there for longer periods at a time) which they've done.

My company also puts a lot of effort into finding carbon offsetting schemes to offset all of the emissions from these flights (because the ones the airlines offer up are pretty worthless) so we're officially carbon neutral, but that's still no replacement for simply cutting down.

easypazz · 04-02-2020 07:29PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

People won't change, not while the sailing option is pretty shyte.

People wont change lots of things, plastic bottles, burning coal, driving diesel cars etc., unless policies are put in place to encourage change.

Unless there is some sort of global agreement to significantly increase tax on air travel then it going to remain No. 1.

Del.Monte · 04-02-2020 08:25PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Flightshaming. Nice try, but I have no shame and will fly whenever it pleases me and not feel a scintilla of shame or remorse.

As had been said about a similar poster - edgy, you're my hero.

whisky_galore · 04-02-2020 08:33PM

easypazz wrote: »

Unless there is some sort of global agreement to significantly increase tax on air travel then it going to remain No. 1.

Lol.
Good luck with that.

04-02-2020 09:24PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

not only do people here think that, other people do too:

I already questioned the accuracy of that statistic a number of pages back. I came to a figure of .1311 not .16 for Ryanair. Aer Lingus wouldn't be far off that either. If you are flying to London from Dublin it is very likely you are flying on one of those two carriers.
Those figures will go down further as 737Maxes and A32xes enter their fleets.

04-02-2020 09:30PM

quokula wrote: »

If enough people change their habits then Ryanair aren't going to keep flying half empty planes back and forth at a loss.

Ryanair are bidding at the moment for new 737Max10 planes. With over 40 more seats than their current fleet of 737-800s they will be easily over 20% more efficient on a per passenger basis.

devnull · 04-02-2020 10:47PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

As had been said about a similar poster - edgy, you're my hero.

Remember to keep it civil and attack the post and not the poster.

- Moderator

Flightshaming to London from Dublin

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