Flightshaming to London from Dublin

Breezer

Thisonedone wrote: »

Well even if it was 5 billion it would be worth it, just tax flights properly reflecting their true cost to the environment to pay for it

As lovely and utopian as that idea is, it would make a lot more sense to build more rail links and invest in rolling stock here.

Sam Russell

Thisonedone wrote: »

Well even if it was 5 billion it would be worth it, just tax flights properly reflecting their true cost to the environment to pay for it

That is two metro lines.

Thisonedone

Thisonedone wrote: »

Would obviously need to be done on an all Ireland basis but im sure the unionists won’t complain about being on the same system as Britain and being able to travel from Derry to Italy by train if they wished

? are you hearing yourself?

easypazz

magicbastarder wrote: »

keep going.
how much to lift and replace all the rail in ireland, and buy new rolling stock too?

the *additional* carriages announced a couple of months ago are going to cost €150m.

Do it on a phased basis. All engineering work be compatible with a quick change over to the new gauge.

Buy enough stock so that the lines out of say limerick could be done first.

Transfer old stock to dublin area.

The savings are much shorter lead times and much cheaper units, and sell on old stock.

Sam Russell

easypazz wrote: »

Do it on a phased basis. All engineering work be compatible with a quick change over to the new gauge.

Buy enough stock so that the lines out of say limerick could be done first.

Transfer old stock to dublin area.

The savings are much shorter lead times and much cheaper units, and sell on old stock.

Who do we sell them to?

We are the only ones to use that gauge. (Well, I think the Australians are moving away from it, and Brazil has some).

Del.Monte

Sam Russell wrote: »

Yes, the British built the French Railway sytem.

We would be nuts to change gauge. Would we change trains at Newry or Dundalk?

News to me - any link? The 'British' built the Irish railway system but we still have our odd gauge. Anyway, the Irish gauge is unlikely to ever change anymore than there is likely to be a bridge/tunnel or train ferries between the two islands.

whisky_galore

Thisonedone wrote: »

Would obviously need to be done on an all Ireland basis but im sure the unionists won’t complain about being on the same system as Britain and being able to travel from Derry to Italy by train if they wished

Don't make me laugh.
We struggle to reopen lines here, let alone regauge the whole lot.
People here are such simpletons they want greenways (and more roads, wider roads, bypasses) instead of railways.

magicbastarder

easypazz wrote: »

Do it on a phased basis. All engineering work be compatible with a quick change over to the new gauge.

Buy enough stock so that the lines out of say limerick could be done first.

not sure if serious.

loyatemu

you wouldn't have to replace all the old stock, just re-bogie it.

But the Irish system also has a different loading gauge (i.e. the max width the train bodies can be to fit under bridges, past each other on bends etc). We'd still have to buy custom stock, or 2nd hand UK stock (where they have a smaller loading gauge). It would probably take 100 years to break even on the whole thing. It's an idea that doesn't stand up to any cost/benefit analysis.

Sam Russell

magicbastarder wrote: »

easypazz wrote: »

Do it on a phased basis. All engineering work be compatible with a quick change over to the new gauge.

Buy enough stock so that the lines out of say limerick could be done first.

Transfer old stock to dublin area.

The savings are much shorter lead times and much cheaper units, and sell on old stock.

not sure if serious.

They thought of doing that with driving on the left. You know trucks drive on the right on Monday to Thursday, with cars continuing to drive on the left. If everything is going well, cars start driving on the right on Friday.

Joking aside, there are two ways to change.

1. Put a third rail so that both gauges use the left rail and their own right rail. The trouble is the gap between the two right rails is too small and points become a major problem.

2. Put two new rails down with sufficient separation but points still remain a problem, but now platforms become a problem.

It cannot be done as a dual gauge solution.

So how long can we do without a rail service? We cannot even upgrade the Green Line to Metro with the standard gauge, so how do we manage to change gauge.

Not going to happen.

magicbastarder

all this work for what - so we can load trains on ferries. a $50 solution to a $5 problem, if ever there was one.

bk

Now I've heard it all!

As annoying as having a different gauge to standard gauge is, the idea of spending billions to re-gauge just so a couple of people who don't like flying can stay on a train as it goes on a ferry is insane! There is simply little or no demand for such a service.

BTW and the issue isn't just cost, imagine the chaos as you shut down almost the entire Irish Rail network for a few years to re-gauge and re-boogie. No DART, no commuter rail for years, lol.

If the demand was there you could of course improve sail & rail for a fraction of the cost and mayhem. Direct train from London to Holyhead, timed to wait for the ferry, etc. But there is currently little demand for even that unfortunately.

EICVD

trellheim wrote: »

A new word in work is flightshaming - take the train or bus instead of flying.

As a very regular Dublin-London , and reading all the coach withdrawals

What are the current service alternatives and timings for Dublin-London as an integrated journey eg Sailrail or eurolines or someone else And the return !

I know there's no sleeper service but can you get an 11pm bus from Connolly and wake up at 0800 in Victoria ?

If I get enough responses I'll edit this first post with the timings

& I’ve literally just landed in Heathrow for a simple day out in London. Hi Greta

Zebra3

EICVD wrote: »

& I’ve literally just landed in Heathrow for a simple day out in London. Hi Greta

Edgy.

Dravokivich

Thisonedone wrote: »

Well even if it was 5 billion it would be worth it, just tax flights properly reflecting their true cost to the environment to pay for it

The people who lead business, come in and out on planes. If it becomes too much of a cost, they won't come and go. We'll be out of business.

trellheim

I'm still interested in what people call "their own time". If you do 0445 taxi for a london flight walk into the City office at 0900, thats 4 hr 15 hours, if you then take the 1735 Blackfriars for the 20:30 LGW-DUB and the taxi drops you back at the gaff at 2200 thats another 4 hours 25 mins after work , so 8 hours 40 mins. Do you claim overtime for that ? If you do it twice a week do you claim two days off from work .

Travel time is time on the clock. I was on the phone to USA Midwest till 2130 last night then took the last flight back, didnt get in the door till 2345 after an 0430 start.

There's an argument for comfort if you have to do it.

easypazz

bk wrote: »

Now I've heard it all!

As annoying as having a different gauge to standard gauge is, the idea of spending billions to re-gauge just so a couple of people who don't like flying can stay on a train as it goes on a ferry is insane! There is simply little or no demand for such a service.

BTW and the issue isn't just cost, imagine the chaos as you shut down almost the entire Irish Rail network for a few years to re-gauge and re-boogie. No DART, no commuter rail for years, lol.

If the demand was there you could of course improve sail & rail for a fraction of the cost and mayhem. Direct train from London to Holyhead, timed to wait for the ferry, etc. But there is currently little demand for even that unfortunately.

I have a better idea.

Build a boat with 2 platforms down the middle.

Irish gauge train rolls in one side, UK gauge train waits across the platform.

People can just walk across the platform onto a UK gauge train, and do it while the ship is on the sea, so no time is wasted.

Simples.

Cookiemunster

easypazz wrote: »

I have a better idea.

Build a boat with 2 platforms down the middle.

Irish gauge train rolls in one side, UK gauge train waits across the platform.

People can just walk across the platform onto a UK gauge train, and do it while the ship is on the sea, so no time is wasted.

Simples.

Or even more 'simples', people get off the train onto the boat, travel across the sea and then get on the train at the other side as is done now, rather than unnecessarily carrying two trains across the Irish sea.

whisky_galore

easypazz wrote: »

I have a better idea.

Build a boat with 2 platforms down the middle.

Irish gauge train rolls in one side, UK gauge train waits across the platform.

People can just walk across the platform onto a UK gauge train, and do it while the ship is on the sea, so no time is wasted.

Simples.

How often would you use this service, if it somehow magically appeared?

bk

trellheim wrote: »

I'm still interested in what people call "their own time". If you do 0445 taxi for a london flight walk into the City office at 0900, thats 4 hr 15 hours, if you then take the 1735 Blackfriars for the 20:30 LGW-DUB and the taxi drops you back at the gaff at 2200 thats another 4 hours 25 mins after work , so 8 hours 40 mins. Do you claim overtime for that ? If you do it twice a week do you claim two days off from work .

It probably depends on the company. Most people with jobs that have them flying around are salaried employees, so you don't typically pay by the hour, or get overtime, etc.

Sometimes you might take another day off.

In my own experience of travelling for work, you didn't get paid extra and I didn't get extra time off. It was just considered part of the job. I'm sure if I asked I'd get extra time off to make up for it, but then we were typically too busy on projects for that anyway. Having said that, I'd be travelling just once or twice a year, it would be different doing it once or twice a week.

trellheim

Thanks - I'm responding to people saying flying time "is their own time" as if it magically doesnt count for the job , I'm frequently on email in both directions and con calls so its not your own time.

bk

trellheim wrote: »

Thanks - I'm responding to people saying flying time "is their own time" as if it magically doesnt count for the job , I'm frequently on email in both directions and con calls so its not your own time.

Oh, totally, preparing presentations, reviewing docs/specs, writing up notes, etc. for me.

JoseJones

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Or even more 'simples', people get off the train onto the boat, travel across the sea and then get on the train at the other side as is done now, rather than unnecessarily carrying two trains across the Irish sea.

Exactly... Extending the Luas or a railway down to the ferry terminal would be great. It's a bit of a pain to get down there as a foot passenger as it is now.

Lord Glentoran

Take the Morton’s bus then either Irish Ferries or Stena, then the train to London from Holyhead. And back. It really is that simple.

If travelling on ground was the most efficient way of getting from location to location the ancestors of birds would not have extended such great efforts in to developing the ability to fly.
Nothing wrong with flying...just older less empty planes should be retired.
Either Ireland retains cheap flight connections to the rest of the world or the residents de-populate the Island and move to some metropolis on the Continent.
That is the logical progression of this theoretical Green ideology. Once you are living in a high-rise metropolis that looks something like Hong Kong then you start shrinking the square meterage each person is allowed in their apartment and reduce the calorie intake as...after all... the world needs to be saved.

easypazz

JoseJones wrote: »

Exactly... Extending the Luas or a railway down to the ferry terminal would be great. It's a bit of a pain to get down there as a foot passenger as it is now.

Ultimate it is a pity Dun Laoghaire is gone.

It had a dart stop (and its own station before that)

And importantly a lot of people living nearby for whom dublin airport was an extra hour or so.

JoseJones

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Take the Morton’s bus then either Irish Ferries or Stena, then the train to London from Holyhead. And back. It really is that simple.

Morton's bus is ok, but it only drops at Heuston and doesn't pick up there for some reason. You'd need a train, Luas or bus, and then Morton's to the port. It's a bit messy. Would love to be able to change train at Heuston and go all the way to the ferry terminal.

trellheim

there is in fact a railway line that goes all the way down into Dublin port , not well situated to get a passenger train there from any of the dublin termini though , and IIRC its disused that far down

L1011

It's used in to the port daily for freight. There has never been passenger facilities on it though

easypazz

It goes nearly all the way to the ferry terminal, not viable though for passenger traffic.

I think Dun Laoghaire is a better option if they ever sought to ramp up sail rail / foot passenger traffic.