Flightshaming to London from Dublin

Johnny Sausage

Sam Russell wrote: »

Sheffield and Oxford are two places that are difficult to get to by air from Dublin,so rail or coach might be better.

Sheffield - fly to manchester, train is about an hour and a quarter if its ot one where you have to change

Oxford - fly to birmingham, train takes about an hour

the sail rail would take a lot longer on both tbh

Thelonious Monk

Peregrinus wrote: »

I can get Dublin Connolly to London Euston, one way, for €62.63, and it will take between 9 and 13 hours, depending on which service I take. Ryanair is going to be both cheaper and quicker.

You need to take into account the price you pay to get from the London airports to a central location like Euston though. From Euston you can walk to King's Cross or even the West End or the City of London or Camden etc. if you like.
I've spent 30 pounds getting in and out of Stansted and Heathrow Express is crazy money too.

Peregrinus

Sam Russell wrote: »

Sheffield and Oxford are two places that are difficult to get to by air from Dublin,so rail or coach might be better.

Oxford's a piece of cake; numerous flights every day from Dublin to Heathrow and a non-stop coach at least every 30 mins from Heathrow to Oxford; it takes about 1 hr 30 mins, depending on the time of day. Oxford is more accessible than most of suburban London.

At one time The Lady Who Is Now My Wife was living in Oxford and I was living in Dublin; I did this route a lot.

Sam Russell

Peregrinus wrote: »

Oxford's a piece of cake; numerous flights every day from Dublin to Heathrow and a non-stop coach at least every 30 mins from Heathrow to Oxford; it takes about 1 hr 30 mins, depending on the time of day. Oxford is more accessible than most of suburban London.

At one time The Lady Who Is Now My Wife was living in Oxford and I was living in Dublin; I did this route a lot.

Heathrow is one of the most expensive airports to fly into.

El Tarangu

cnocbui wrote: »

The irony is that I plan to significantly reduce my CO2 footprint by emigrating to a warmer climate where I won't have to heat my house with multiple 1000L deliveries of kerosene each year.

Unless you plan on only visiting home once every several years, you won't be reducing your carbon footprint.

cnocbui

El Tarangu wrote: »

Unless you plan on only visiting home once every several years, you won't be reducing your carbon footprint.

I'm an Australian, I don't anticipate returning.

L1011

loyatemu wrote: »

anything to be said for Ekranoplans?

I think a large wave can take them out entirely, so no.

trellheim

Gatwick is 16 quid extra at peak with an Oyster tap-in to KIngs X /Euston

n97 mini

L1011 wrote: »

I think a large wave can take them out entirely, so no.

It's not the weather, it's the amount of power required to get them out of the water. Look at the one in the link, 8 jet engines.

newcavanman

Anyone old enough to have had to travel to the UK by boat because air travel was so expensive will view this thread with a weary eye. I remember going to London for a week in 1981 with pal. we were going plane spoting for a week and would happily have flown. In those days, the costs were as follows
Advance booking flight 175
day ferry and train 55
night ferry and train 45
Guess which option we had to choose? I have to say, ill be dragged kicking and screaming to travel by boat , i spent way too much time sitting on trains or waiting on boats. My use of air travel now ,is just rebalancing the books

Corca Baiscinn

Interesting thread, agree with posters who responded to op by pointing out that in mainland Europe, not flying is made easier by existence of long-distance trans border train travel including some night trains. Getting off our island with some degree of comfort and without it taking forever is trickier.
As a child we had aunts living in UK and we used to go over and back on holidays. As posters have pointed out air travel in the "old days" cost an arm and a leg so boat and train it was. Like posters have said though it was seamless. step from train to boat at Dun L or Rosslare and vice versa at the other side. Did the trip recently again after a gap of many years and while ferry was much more comfortable train part was not. The near demise of foot passengers has meant the demise of that seamless service. Was very taken aback at no train beside boat in Holyhead, instead,bus to terminal and longish wait for train. At least train was direct and comfortable. Return journey though meant change of train and last half of trip was on a local grossly overcrowded service that stopped at every hamlet in Wales. It was no longer a "boat-train" with Holyhead just the last stop on a local service. Again boat was fine. long wait in Euston too due to some signalling issue and nowhere to sit. (In Connolly you can share with the pigeons)

With rail privatisation in UK and so few foot passengers can't see any likely improvement. Felt sorrier for the local Welsh passengers than I did for myself as the packed train was one they had to endure regularly. Disappointing as great connections to mainland Europe via Eurostar but getting to London or more so back from there not appealing.

Has anyone done the trip via Rosslare and Pembroke instead or do train connections make it impossible now too? Was wondering if that train any better. Thanks for thread OP

Chris_5339762

Sam Russell wrote: »

Heathrow is one of the most expensive airports to fly into.

Not so much to fly into I don't find... you can get it for about €50 with Aer Lingus if you're lucky, but to fly back to Ireland, yes that is very expensive.

Peregrinus

Sam Russell wrote: »

Heathrow is one of the most expensive airports to fly into.

But it's not difficult to fly into; there are more seats/day on the DUB/LHR route than on any of the alternatives serving London.

And, while it's more expensive than other options, it's still mostly cheaper than boat+train, which is the relevant comparison for the purposes of this thread.

Markcheese

We don't do long distance coach very well , i took a overnight coach trip in Argentina years ago , "semi cama" basically business class on a coach ,( it was quarter the price of the plane ) ,
Got on at 8 pm ,got off at 7 am no hassle, meal served ,drinks service ..slept comfortably the whole way ...
I know the Irish sea is in the way on the way to London ...

dfx-

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Not so much to fly into I don't find... you can get it for about €50 with Aer Lingus if you're lucky, but to fly back to Ireland, yes that is very expensive.

Or you can fly to BHX and come from/be in Euston in an hour for €25.99 flight and £17.99 train and return. Travel from Heathrow wouldn't be far off the same.

The idea of trains or coaches for regular travel to the UK is a relic of the 50s even with all climate considerations. Flying is the only option.

galwayllm

I'd fly the 10mins to work if i could... Haha.
Let them off.

cnocbui

dfx- wrote: »

Or you can fly to BHX and come from/be in Euston in an hour for €25.99 flight and £17.99 train and return. Travel from Heathrow wouldn't be far off the same.

The idea of trains or coaches for regular travel to the UK is a relic of the 50s even with all climate considerations. Flying is the only option.

Don't be silly, returning to an iron-age existence is the only option, for some.

Johnny Sausage

dfx- wrote: »

Or you can fly to BHX and come from/be in Euston in an hour for €25.99 flight and £17.99 train and return. Travel from Heathrow wouldn't be far off the same.

The idea of trains or coaches for regular travel to the UK is a relic of the 50s even with all climate considerations. Flying is the only option.

flights can even be got for 9.99 to BHX if booked in advance, often use it as a cheaper alternative to LPL when going back over

El Tarangu

Flight shaming is about to be kicked up a gear!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10926538/boris-johnson-bridge-scotland-northern-ireland-union/

Johnny Sausage

El Tarangu wrote: »

Flight shaming is about to be kicked up a gear!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10926538/boris-johnson-bridge-scotland-northern-ireland-union/

ah jaysis that would be a long long trip to drive from Dublin to London

El Tarangu

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

ah jaysis that would be a long long trip to drive from Dublin to London

I checked - 7 hours drive from Portpatrick to London :eek:

Though it might make sense for freight (and Boris may not actually be serious about building it, anyway)

Sam Russell

El Tarangu wrote: »

Flight shaming is about to be kicked up a gear!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10926538/boris-johnson-bridge-scotland-northern-ireland-union/

Johnson must not realise that NI is not on the same gauge railway as Scotland? There is a deck on the bridge for a train.

I wonder if they will change the bogies on the artificial island?

cdaly_

You just change trains. Having a rail link is about a public transport option rather than private car only.

And sure you could just run a UK gauge line from the bridge into Belfast Central and they can all change there. Piddling extra effort compared to building the bridge itself...

KevRossi

So I took the ferry and train over and back to Liverpool last week on Tuesday and Wednesday. Did it a few times last summer and autumn to London, so here's a few thoughts:

My biggest question is the timing of the ferries, they leave every 6 hours from either end, but two of them leave almost together, any reason why they can't leave in a 3 hour tact instead?

Ferries leave Dublin at 20:30, get to Holyhead at 00.00 and you need to wait until 4:48 for the first train to London (which is a direct service).

So why not have a boat leaving Dublin around 00:00, which makes it easy for anyone from the country to take a late train or bus to Dublin, get on a coach in Heuston, Busaras/Connolly, get off the same bus at the depot in Holyhead at around 04:00 and get the first train to London, getting there at 08:30.

Makes it easier all round, there were about 10-12 people on the boat and train, used to be packed, making it more comfortable will make it more popular.

That same ferry would leave Holyhead later, but get to Dublin for 08:30. meaning you can get a late train from Euston at 21:50. It's a case of building it and they will come.

It would involve a small bit of work, including a warm, draught free lounge in Holyhead - the place is like a wind tunnel.

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Has anyone done the trip via Rosslare and Pembroke instead or do train connections make it impossible now too? Was wondering if that train any better. Thanks for thread OP

A bigger shlt show than Holyhead, last train leaves Rosslare as the boat arrives, insane that they don't do anything about it.

cdaly_

KevRossi wrote: »

A bigger shlt show than Holyhead, last train leaves Rosslare as the boat arrives, insane that they don't do anything about it.

Had that last summer. Boat from France touches quayside 25 min before train departs. I was on a bike and first off the boat and caught it with 10 min to spare. You'd miss it if you were a foot passenger being bused off the boat...

Corca Baiscinn

KevRossi wrote: »

My biggest question is the timing of the ferries, they leave every 6 hours from either end, but two of them leave almost together, any reason why they can't leave in a 3 hour tact instead?

Ferries leave Dublin at 20:30, get to Holyhead at 00.00 and you need to wait until 4:48 for the first train to London (which is a direct service).

So why not have a boat leaving Dublin around 00:00, which makes it easy for anyone from the country to take a late train or bus to Dublin, get on a coach in Heuston, Busaras/Connolly, get off the same bus at the depot in Holyhead at around 04:00 and get the first train to London, getting there at 08:30.

Makes it easier all round, there were about 10-12 people on the boat and train, used to be packed, making it more comfortable will make it more popular.

That same ferry would leave Holyhead later, but get to Dublin for 08:30. meaning you can get a late train from Euston at 21:50. It's a case of building it and they will come.

It would involve a small bit of work, including a warm, draught free lounge in Holyhead - the place is like a wind tunnel. .

It does seem daft they leave at pretty much the same time, is it anything to do with tides? Actually can't be as tide time would vary. So it arrives HH midnight & turns around quickly so freight traffic arrives in Dub in time to head off around the country?
Don't think anything will change to suit foot/train/coach passengers as main activity of the ferries is freight + cars in summer. Night we came back into Dub on Stena we could see the trucks driving off the IF boat which had just docked. Phenomenal numbers and presume it's same day after day after day. Drivers could be heading to warehouses in any part of the country I imagine.
But +4 hours waiting for the train, no thanks!
Thanks for info though! Now I know what NOT to book!

Vic_08

KevRossi wrote: »

So I took the ferry and train over and back to Liverpool last week on Tuesday and Wednesday. Did it a few times last summer and autumn to London, so here's a few thoughts:

My biggest question is the timing of the ferries, they leave every 6 hours from either end, but two of them leave almost together, any reason why they can't leave in a 3 hour tact instead?

Ferries leave Dublin at 20:30, get to Holyhead at 00.00 and you need to wait until 4:48 for the first train to London (which is a direct service).

So why not have a boat leaving Dublin around 00:00, which makes it easy for anyone from the country to take a late train or bus to Dublin, get on a coach in Heuston, Busaras/Connolly, get off the same bus at the depot in Holyhead at around 04:00 and get the first train to London, getting there at 08:30.

Makes it easier all round, there were about 10-12 people on the boat and train, used to be packed, making it more comfortable will make it more popular.

That same ferry would leave Holyhead later, but get to Dublin for 08:30. meaning you can get a late train from Euston at 21:50. It's a case of building it and they will come.

It would involve a small bit of work, including a warm, draught free lounge in Holyhead - the place is like a wind tunnel.

Freight is the main source of revenue for the ferry companies, cars are secondary and foot passengers an afterthought at best. The two operators are in competition, the one that changed their timetable would lose out as the current times are what best suits the majority of freight customers.

Besides Irish Ferries do not take foot passengers on all their sailings so there would still be gaps.

If you want to understand the shift from passengers to freight just look at the ships, in the 80s the ships in use were 6-12000 tons and carried 1500-2000 passengers, the current ships are 40-50000 tons and carry 600-1800 people.

These ships could be converted to carry thousands more people but their purpose is to move trucks and unaccompanied trailers, lots of them.

http://www.ferry-site.dk/ferry.php?id=7915228&lang=en
http://www.ferry-site.dk/ferry.php?id=7507019&lang=en
http://www.ferry-site.dk/ferry.php?id=9807293&lang=en
http://www.ferry-site.dk/ferry.php?id=9214991&lang=en

There is little interest in improving the sail-rail product from either ship or rail companies. The revenue it generates for both is marginal at best, it is barely more than a sailing only foot passenger fare and cheaper than many rail only fares to/from North Wales.

It is a niche product and unless something cataclysmic happens to short haul air travel it will remain so.

As far as the foot passenger numbers go, I would say if anything they are growing a bit, they vary massively though, I have had everything from a taxi load to hundreds per sailing.

KevRossi wrote: »

A bigger shlt show than Holyhead, last train leaves Rosslare as the boat arrives, insane that they don't do anything about it.

While that is true, Irish Ferries Pembroke-Rosslare route is not and has never been a rail connected service. The rail station in Pembroke is a good walk away and no sail-rail tickets are offered on that route.

The Stena service from Fishguard is the sail-rail route and both sailings have onward trains from Rosslare, at least on weekdays. 04.00 arrival to 05.35 train M-F, 07.20 Sat, 09.40 Sun and 16.25 arrival to 17.30 train M-F, 17.55 Sat, 18.05 Sun.

The other direction is a different story, unsurprisingly there is no train early enough into Rosslare for the 08.00 ferry and while there is for the 18.10 ferry the connection at Fishguard only goes as far as Swansea, any travel further East requires nearly 4 hours overnight there. This is mainly due to Stena changing their sailing times so the ferry departs Rosslare a few hours earlier than the old overnight connection.


While the Irish Sea routes are less than perfect for foot passengers in comparison to the English channel it is not so bad.

Dover - Calais, the busiest ferry route in Europe is now awful for non-vehicle passengers. The rail stations at both ports are ancient history and there is no public transport at either port, no regular bus and no ferry shuttle bus to the towns or rail stations on either side. Taxi or a long walk dodging trucks is the only option. Of the two main ferry operators only one, P&O take foot passengers at all and only on daytime sailings, late evening and overnight sailings are vehicle only. Combined rail-ship fares are also long gone on the route. The rail companies were keen to push all traffic to Eurostar and despite being desperate to court freight and car traffic from Eurotunnel none of the ferry companies have made any effort to make the route attractive to foot passengers.

KevRossi

^ Thanks for the comprehensive insight Vic_08, nice to get the view from someone in the industry (which it sounds like you are).

Agreed that it needs a big change for anything to happen, as long as flying is a lot better bang for buck I think foot passengers will be bottom of the heap.

I cycled through Calais twice last summer coming back and once through Cherbourg, I saw what you said, how it's all geared up for cars and trucks and foot passengers are probably just an inconvenience at this point. I can understand the emphasis on Eurostar, just with a bike it's handier to take the trains and boat from London for several reasons. The boat across the English Channel is still one of my favourite trips anywhere in the world, on a sunny day it's hard to beat.

markpb

Vic_08 wrote: »

Besides Irish Ferries do not take foot passengers on all their sailings so there would still be gaps.

What's the reason for that? Is it commercial or because those ships don't have passenger gangways?

KevRossi

markpb wrote: »

What's the reason for that? Is it commercial or because those ships don't have passenger gangways?

No ships on the Irish Sea routes have gangways AFAIK, you're taken onto the boat with a bus and you are dropped off on the car deck in my experience over the past few years.