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Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

1…4647495152…58

Comments

  • #2402
    Buddha Breath
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Buddha Breath


    Buddha Breath wrote: »
    Thanks Garo. Do you think the inverter setup would be more complicated with 3 strings, or could you put two in parallel on one string and one on the other? Would you need many additional optimisers?

    Incidentally, this is a 12 panel system with same roof angle in same part of the country. Installed mid June. To my inexperienced eye those figures seem ok.


  • #2403
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Just on this, how common is it for the reputable installers to be willing to plough ahead on a bigger array without planning?
    I got five quotes and not one installer mentioned it once.


  • #2404
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    The planning is a load of s**t. My roof is huge so they didnt bother, unless you are trying to fill an entire roof I doubt anyone will ask, especially after the case in Limerick


  • #2405
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    Buddha Breath wrote: »
    Incidentally, this is a 12 panel system with same roof angle in same part of the country. Installed mid June. To my inexperienced eye those figures seem ok.

    Yes three strings would be an issue. You would need an additional mini inverter or string optimisers. That’s why cost won’t be the same. And having to install three racks instead one. Ask the installers for quotes for various systems and find your sweet spot. Your quote is ok. I got a 4.8kWp system for 200€ more. Once mounts are in place additional panels add only 150-200 marginal cost so are a good idea. If money was no object I would be looking at a 6+10+6 system at least. Most inverters allow significantly higher DC input than their output rating and all your panel would never be producing max at the same time so a 5 or 6 kW inverter would do fine with 7-8kWp panels.


  • #2406
    Buddha Breath
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Buddha Breath


    garo wrote: »
    Yes three strings would be an issue. You would need an additional mini inverter or string optimisers. That’s why cost won’t be the same. And having to install three racks instead one. Ask the installers for quotes for various systems and find your sweet spot. Your quote is ok. I got a 4.8kWp system for 200€ more. Once mounts are in place additional panels add only 150-200 marginal cost so are a good idea. If money was no object I would be looking at a 6+10+6 system at least. Most inverters allow significantly higher DC input than their output rating and all your panel would never be producing max at the same time so a 5 or 6 kW inverter would do fine with 7-8kWp panels.

    Thanks. So would that be 6 East, 6 West, 10 South facing? Would any of the simulation packages the installers use have the ability to calculate these non standard setups I wonder?


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  • #2407
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,397 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The planning is a load of s**t. My roof is huge so they didnt bother, unless you are trying to fill an entire roof I doubt anyone will ask, especially after the case in Limerick

    Did you go with next gen power in the end?


  • #2408
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,717 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Is 26 panels not nearly 8kwp ? Is there not a risk of it overloading the 6kw inverter ? I seem to remember there is a risk of the voltage being too high going in to an inverter if you oversize the panels ?

    Not likely. Of course you need to check the maximum voltage per string and in total against the spec sheet of the inverter to be sure.

    Might not be easy to find a three string inverter that has a capacity of no more than 6kW though, might have to go with 2 inverters. Say a 1kW for say 4 or 5 east facing panels and then a 5kW for the other two strings

    Edit - missed reading a few posts before I posted this. Garo has also already mentioned that for 3 strings in Ireland you probably need 2 inverters. Or a main inverter and some micro inverters and that 8kwp is unlikely a problem with an inverter / inverters totalling no more than 6KW

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  • #2409
    Nuphor
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Nuphor


    Happy with my new 4kw + 2.4kwh battery install. Got it installed just before Christmas and New Years.

    7,600 all in, but now the installer and the electrician are having a bun fight over some other install that the electrician didn’t finish and the guy is withholding sign off certs for my install until he’s paid by the installer. Absolute nightmare and the installer has been ducking and diving for weeks, meanwhile I’m out of pocket for 3,800.


  • #2410
    handpref
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭handpref


    Nuphor wrote: »
    Happy with my new 4kw + 2.4kwh battery install. Got it installed just before Christmas and New Years.

    7,600 all in, but now the installer and the electrician are having a bun fight over some other install that the electrician didn’t finish and the guy is withholding sign off certs for my install until he’s paid by the installer. Absolute nightmare and the installer has been ducking and diving for weeks, meanwhile I’m out of pocket for 3,800.

    The deadline for the old grant was unfortunately pushed out to The end of February- in your case it should give them time to sort it out- in my case it will make it 18 months waiting for my grant and out of pocket €3800, ducking and diving from the installer has been a record breaking effort-

    The message people need to take from this is only pay the after grant price and let the installer claim back the rebate. Whilst I’m happy with the summer production winter time is poor and the savings are nowhere near the 70% they advertised.

    Worst financial experience of my life and by far the most stressful, the money is one thing but the refusal of the company to own up to their obligation has been the most frustrating. So one more month to go.


  • #2411
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    handpref wrote: »
    The deadline for the old grant was unfortunately pushed out to The end of February- in your case it should give them time to sort it out- in my case it will make it 18 months waiting for my grant and out of pocket €3800, ducking and diving from the installer has been a record breaking effort-

    The message people need to take from this is only pay the after grant price and let the installer claim back the rebate. Whilst I’m happy with the summer production winter time is poor and the savings are nowhere near the 70% they advertised.

    Worst financial experience of my life and by far the most stressful, the money is one thing but the refusal of the company to own up to their obligation has been the most frustrating. So one more month to go.

    Sorry to hear that! 18 months requires naming and shaming. Fortunately in the new grant system there won’t be cases like yours as grant will have to be approved pre-installed. Have you complained to SEAI? A threat of SEAI deter might help.

    Also those 70% saving numbers seem ludicrous. Depends on the individual consumption and set up but realistically a 10-15 year payback is what you are looking at.


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  • #2412
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Did you go with next gen power in the end?

    Yes


  • #2413
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    Buddha Breath wrote: »
    Thanks. So would that be 6 East, 6 West, 10 South facing? Would any of the simulation packages the installers use have the ability to calculate these non standard setups I wonder?
    Yes. And yes installer sim packages like PV Syst allow that. Also the sheet I linked to will let you do that but you’ll have to run three calcs. It is a really good tool but requires some investment in learning. Let me know if you need help with it.


  • #2414
    handpref
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭handpref


    garo wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that! 18 months requires naming and shaming. Fortunately in the new grant system there won’t be cases like yours as grant will have to be approved pre-installed. Have you complained to SEAI? A threat of SEAI deter might help.

    Also those 70% saving numbers seem ludicrous. Depends on the individual consumption and set up but realistically a 10-15 year payback is what you are looking at.

    I’ve bern reluctant to involve the seai for fear of jeopardizing the whole process. The company involved obviously don’t care but I’ve been told that they hope to have the documents uploaded to the grant page by next Friday.

    If it starts to look like nothing is moving in the right direction I will contact the Seai.

    If it comes through I’ll draw a line under it, I can’t give it any more energy. If it doesn’t I’ll update so others get a heads up on the candor of the installer.
    A long and very sorry affair.


  • #2415
    Buddha Breath
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Buddha Breath


    What's a reasonable installer profit margin on an installed PV system?

    There seems to be a fair amount of p*sstaking going on from my own experience and those of others based on quotes mentioned in this thread. So based on the costs of running a business, insurance etc, what do people think is an appropriate profit margin?

    My most recent quote works out at about EUR 2.16 per watt installed, pre grant. To buy the same system myself and pay out 1k to a roofer and sparks would cost EUR 1.45 per watt installed. That's a 4.4kW system with 5kW hybrid inverter and 2.4kW battery. It would be good to know just how much room for negotiation one has! A lot I suspect.


  • #2416
    Zardaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Zardaz


    Buddha Breath wrote: »
    What's a reasonable installer profit margin on an installed PV system?

    There seems to be a fair amount of p*sstaking going on from my own experience and those of others based on quotes mentioned in this thread. So based on the costs of running a business, insurance etc, what do people think is an appropriate profit margin?

    My most recent quote works out at about EUR 2.16 per watt installed, pre grant. To buy the same system myself and pay out 1k to a roofer and sparks would cost EUR 1.45 per watt installed. That's a 4.4kW system with 5kW hybrid inverter and 2.4kW battery. It would be good to know just how much room for negotiation one has! A lot I suspect.

    Did you include:
    • mounting hardware for the panels,
    • wire & isolators,
    • and Vat at 23% on the materials?


  • #2417
    Buddha Breath
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Buddha Breath


    Zardaz wrote: »
    Did you include:
    • mounting hardware for the panels,
    • wire & isolators,
    • and Vat at 23% on the materials?

    I did. That's a standard kit from solartricity that includes all the installation materials and vat to me at 23%. So obviously they are paying cheaper trade prices and no vat, so another increase in margin for them there that I haven't accounted for.


  • #2418
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,717 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    About EUR1 per watt installed would be a ballpark figure for a completely installed system without a battery (mostly DIY), with an electrician hooking it up. A 300W panel costs about EUR85 + VAT at trade prices, or about 28c/watt

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  • #2419
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    garo wrote: »
    December
    Predicted: 61.9
    Actual: 43.6
    January
    Predicted: 81.5 (without taking shading into account)
    Actual 71.0


  • #2420
    handpref
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭handpref


    garo wrote: »
    January
    Predicted: 81.5 (without taking shading into account)
    Actual 71.0


    January - 83 (5.4 E/W)


  • #2421
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭championc


    garo wrote: »
    January - 71.0
    handpref wrote: »
    January - 83 (5.4 E/W)

    January - 75 (2.7 S)


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  • #2422
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    championc wrote: »
    January - 75 (2.7 S)

    Jan 158kwh produced, 20kwh exported

    6kwp south facing east cork


  • #2423
    joujoujou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    82.4 kWh produced in January. :)

    4.3 kWp, facing SSW.


  • #2424
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    Thanks all and the first day of Feb was better for me in Dublin than all the days in Jan. 4.8 split E/W.


  • #2425
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭championc


    I've just started a specific Solar PV Performance thread :) I've posted the first bunch of stats on there

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112422302


  • #2426
    Mcgree
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Mcgree


    Sorry know it’s probably been done to death. Just looking at a 7/8 mono-panel system without battery and power converter to water tank a few prices in around €3200-€3600 some crazy €5600 after grant. Just want to check €3k+ is around the going rate. Cheers all appreciate the feed back as the sale guys are ruthless with promises and how their product out performs. Please DM any recommendations as all ways good to get user feedback


  • #2427
    Winterman1234
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Winterman1234


    I recently had a 2.48kw with diverter installed, price after grant €2400 with included BER and I'm sure there are better prices than that. Height and type of roof will effect the price aswell.


  • #2428
    Mcgree
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Mcgree


    Winterman1234 wrote: »
    I recently had a 2.48kw with diverter installed, price after grant €2400 with included BER and I'm sure there are better prices than that. Height and type of roof will effect the price aswell.

    Thanks that’s a big difference especially as the systems I was looking at are around a 2.2kw. If you are happy to recommend your installers please PM me a name and I can reach out to them see if it’s due to the install pushing price. Thanks again.


  • #2429
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,717 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Winterman1234 wrote: »
    I recently had a 2.48kw with diverter installed, price after grant €2400 with included BER and I'm sure there are better prices than that. Height and type of roof will effect the price aswell.

    Not a bad price, but you would have had far better payback on your system without the diverter (unless you were previously heating your water in a very expensive way)

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  • #2430
    Buddha Breath
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Buddha Breath


    Hi folks, has anyone heard of any issues with the pylontech batteries where they need to be set to 80% max discharge to perform properly? I was told that when set to 90% this can lead to "problems". Not sure exactly what these problems are but this came from a well respected (on this forum) seai installer.

    Thanks.


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  • #2431
    Zardaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Zardaz


    Buddha Breath wrote: »
    Hi folks, has anyone heard of any issues with the pylontech batteries where they need to be set to 80% max discharge to perform properly? I was told that when set to 90% this can lead to "problems". Not sure exactly what these problems are but this came from a well respected (on this forum) seai installer.

    Thanks.

    They will probably last longer with a lower depth-of-discharge.

    from https://www.inutec-int.com/us/pylontech-48v-us2000b-plus-lithium-ion-battery.html

    "Vertical industry integration ensures more than 4500 cycles with 90% DoD or 6000 cycles with 80% DoD"

    4500*0.9*2.4 = 9720 KWh total usage.
    6000*0.8*2.4 = 11520 KWh total usage.


  • #2432
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,717 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Keep it at all times between 25% and 75% SOC and at a constant temp of 21C and you will probably get 10000 cycles out of it ;)

    In practice, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Even 4500 cycles is well over 12 years. By which time the other electronics in the battery might well be gone / there might be much cheaper batteries available by then

    It's a bit like people telling me not to overclock the central processing unit in my computer. Because it will reduce its life expectancy. Sure, it will live for 5 years instead of 15 years, but what's the issue if it is completely obsolete and worthless and in need of replacement after 5 years anyway?

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  • #2433
    Zardaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Zardaz


    Regarding the battery lifetime, there are a few other considerations:
    • Once feed-in-tariff is available, then storing a KWh in the battery is that much less valuable. So, it might be more financially beneficial to use up that capability sooner.
    • The battery wont fail after X cycles. It just means that its total capacity will drop below some level, probably 70-80%
    • Rate-of-Charge/Discharge will also affect the lifetime, if you keep it to 10A instead of the max 20A (I think?) then it will probably hold up for much longer. But, that will limit how much excess Solar PV KW you can push into a single battery on a sunny day....


  • #2434
    Mcgree
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Mcgree


    unkel wrote: »
    Not a bad price, but you would have had far better payback on your system without the diverter (unless you were previously heating your water in a very expensive way)

    Ringing around today and can’t get anywhere near a similar price would be happy without a diverter, may be a small battery but most are still coming in around €3.5k for a 2.2kw system!


  • #2435
    Winterman1234
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Winterman1234


    Mcgree wrote: »
    Ringing around today and can’t get anywhere near a similar price would be happy without a diverter, may be a small battery but most are still coming in around €3.5k for a 2.2kw system!

    Yea I would have liked to get a battery, but getting the battery seemed to add about over €2000 assume the increased price due to hybrid inverter and battery.


  • #2436
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    What are the efficiency of people panels?

    I seen this mentioned a lot but no detail of what it means? Any idea?


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  • #2437
    _dof_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 449 ✭✭_dof_


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What are the efficiency of people panels?

    I seen this mentioned a lot but no detail of what it means? Any idea?

    My panels (Bisol monocrystalline) are 19% efficient.

    It's a measure of the percentage of the solar energy which is converted into electricity, so higher is better


  • #2438
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _dof_ wrote: »
    My panels (Bisol monocrystalline) are 19% efficient.

    It's a measure of the percentage of the solar energy which is converted into electricity, so higher is better


    Thanks, from what I can see mine are 19% also, 19.8% according to some document. These are them



    https://review.solar/qcells-qpeak-g4/


  • #2439
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭championc


    Realistically, it's all about your own installation and getting confirmation that production is at the level it should be. I think most panels are in the 16 - 19 range but really, the only figure that matters is production of xx kw per m² or xx kw per 1kw of panels.

    So this was why I started the other thread - to give confirmation to anyone who had serious doubts. The more people that record details, the more that averages / trends begin to emerge.


  • #2440
    rx8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭rx8


    Had the BER done last week to finally complete the grant stuff for the SEAI. Originally had one done in January 2018, but have had a new composite hall door fitted as well as the Solar system since then. There's also some new version 4 software that the assessors are using and the latest guy was much more thorough than the first one. So the results are now that I've gone from D1 up to B2.
    Very happy with that tbh.


  • #2441
    Mcgree
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Mcgree


    Quick one in regards to panels heard of solar watt vision glass on glass is this just a gimmick, are they actual any better than glass on foil. Do you really need a 30yr guarantee?


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  • #2442
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Mcgree wrote: »
    Quick one in regards to panels heard of solar watt vision glass on glass is this just a gimmick, are they actual any better than glass on foil. Do you really need a 30yr guarantee?

    Yeah, I had been quoted these by one company when u was shopping around. The idea of the warranty in them was that they had a reduced degradation, I seem to think that within th warranty period they were maybe guaranteed to degrade 3 to 4% less or something like that.

    The way I looked at it, the additional cost, would have gotten me a few extra of the normal panels, which would give me a bigger system and compensate for the additional degradation. That is, an extra 4% degradation on 6kwp left me with still more kwp than 4% less degradation on 5kwp.

    The figures above I am just plucking out of the air, as I cant remember the specifics, but that was my thinking.


  • #2443
    garo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    SolarWatt also does glass-foil modules. I doubt glass on glass is worth the extra cost but it depends on actual numbers.


  • #2444
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    I've a black slate roof and black fascia/soffett so getting the panels to blend into that background is important.

    I've been quoted for Trina panels that are 335w but have a white backsheet. Is that white visible at all from the ground or would you need to be looking hard to see it?

    I've been quoted for Sharp panels with a black backsheet but they are only 300w.

    If the white isnt really visible I'd rather maximise on the wattage.

    Any thoughts/experience of that?


  • #2445
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭championc


    KCross wrote: »
    I've a black slate roof and black fascia/soffett so getting the panels to blend into that background is important.

    I've been quoted for Trina panels that are 335w but have a white backsheet. Is that white visible at all from the ground or would you need to be looking hard to see it?

    I've been quoted for Sharp panels with a black backsheet but they are only 300w.

    If the white isnt really visible I'd rather maximise on the wattage.

    Any thoughts/experience of that?

    Panels will likely have less than a 2" gap between them and the roof, so not likely to be visible I would have thought. Check any neighbouring installations.

    Quite likely too that they aren't even visible from below, and only from across a street, even more therefore being non-visible


  • #2446
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,717 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Apart from the visuals, don't pay 25% extra for panels that only have 10% more output. Waste of money and unnecessarily adding years to your pay back time.

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  • #2447
    joujoujou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    KCross wrote: »
    [...] Is that white visible at all from the ground or would you need to be looking hard to see it?

    [...]

    I have peimar panels with white background. They're indeed very close to the roof, not a chance you can see they're white unless you squeeze your face underneath them somehow. Relax and buy what you like. ;)


  • #2448
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    What price are people getting quoted for a battery? I have a single 2.6kWh and for additional they quoted 2100 plus VAT which is crazy money


  • #2449
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,717 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    You mean for an extra battery on top of your current install which already has a hybrid inverter and a battery? Yeah, that's pretty absurd. A 2.6kWh battery costs about €800 + VAT to the trade and the additional battery can be installed in not much more than 10 minutes extra.

    No subsidy on any further batteries and we've done some sums on this before, it will never pay for itself to get an extra one at current prices. If you got it cheap and installed DIY, it might.

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  • #2450
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    unkel wrote: »
    You mean for an extra battery on top of your current install which already has a hybrid inverter and a battery? Yeah, that's pretty absurd. A 2.6kWh battery costs about €800 + VAT to the trade and the additional battery can be installed in not much more than 10 minutes extra.

    No subsidy on any further batteries and we've done some sums on this before, it will never pay for itself to get an extra one at current prices. If you got it cheap and installed DIY, it might.

    I am filling up the current one and the dumping to grid, today I couldn’t get over the 1.4kW with the house load to kick in the charger

    So based on my current projections to get fully off grid I would need about 20 kWh of battery in winter, but another 2.6kWh would be a good start


  • #2451
    CiaranIRE
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭CiaranIRE


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What price are people getting quoted for a battery? I have a single 2.6kWh and for additional they quoted 2100 plus VAT which is crazy money

    I tried getting a second battery installed but it wasn’t worth it. Cheapest I seen, and advised by GivEnergy, was midsummer.ie @ about €1600 inc Vat

    I tried GivEnergy directly on Alibaba. They didn’t seem too keen on sending one over and advised me to look locally but they wanted about $950, so add vat, shipping etc onto that from China.

    https://www.lvprenewables.ie/ in Finglas also sell them. They weren’t too interested in selling a battery on its own but eventually said around €1800 inc vat I think.

    Tried Next Gen 4 times and never got a quote off them but they had implied that I’d be looking at ballpark €1000 + vat but that was down to the issues I’d had with the installation and them installing a smaller battery than I’d paid for.


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