Flightshaming to London from Dublin

trellheim · 29-01-2020 10:55am #1

A new word in work is flightshaming - take the train or bus instead of flying.

As a very regular Dublin-London , and reading all the coach withdrawals

What are the current service alternatives and timings for Dublin-London as an integrated journey eg Sailrail or eurolines or someone else And the return !

I know there's no sleeper service but can you get an 11pm bus from Connolly and wake up at 0800 in Victoria ?

If I get enough responses I'll edit this first post with the timings

ozanam · 29-01-2020 11:39am

It takes 12 hours door to door. 8PM to 8AM.

That's from the port in Dublin to London Victoria coach station. Cramped on a bus for 8 of them hours and for 60euro 1 way.

No sleep on the bus up all night.. are you then expected to work with no sleep?

flights can often be cheaper???

irish_goat · 29-01-2020 11:43am

What would be more beneficial would be corporates cutting down on the need for travel in the first place. My brother in law works for a big 4 company and they regularly send him fly him to meetings solely so the client will have met him face to face. Usually this it's the likes of Germany and Belgium but once he was sent to Hong Kong for a 30 minute meeting.

maximoose · 29-01-2020 11:49am

ozanam wrote: »

flights can often be cheaper???

I dont think I've ever paid more than €120 (tbh, anywhere near that) for return flights to London and train transport at the other side.

I was looking at an overnight in March this morning - flights currently €31 return

nuckeythompson · 29-01-2020 11:53am

The coach is an absolute nightmare. Very hard to sleep on it

I have taken the train and sail but sometimes the change the train it it has 3 stops so no sleeping either. To be honest I find the coach easier to sleep on than the train

I have done it loads of times and wil hopefully never do it again. Not to mention being stuck ion Holyhead because of delays. Holyhead is a complete dump too

charlietheminxx · 29-01-2020 12:27pm

I've used the Eurolines a few times, but to travel to gigs and festivals in my early twenties when I had little money and it was €50 return with unrestricted baggage. I wouldn't do it now unless I had no other option. It's a tough slog and we had problem passengers on our coach on one trip, made for a horrible journey.

devnull · 29-01-2020 12:29pm

I've done the Eurolines 871 for a return trip once after I had a family wedding to go to in the UK and I broke my arm not long before and my consultant wouldn't allow me to fly because of the nature of the cast.

It was a nightmare truth be told, on the way out I had very loud and drunk passengers but the way back was better. Sure the coach stops on the way from London to Holyhead twice at services with the usual rip off and expensive prices. On the way there I couldn't sleep at all and on the way back not much. When connecting to the late Ferry at Holyhead, I was held up in that dump late at night with nothing open and the vending machines broken.

On that trip I went to put my head down in the lounge to rest for a few mins rather than sleep and woke up about 5 hours later with my phone and wallet on the table in front of me. I was very lucky that nobody took it I guess, but that gives you an illustration of how exhausting the thing can be.

Flying is always the number one choice, or if it's very last minute and getting flights is tough I've done Sail and Rail which is a far better option. I would literally only take the coach again if I had no other choice and I absolutely had to be there for an emergency situation.

markpb · 29-01-2020 12:29pm

I took the bus Dublin - London - Dublin once a few years ago and I wouldn’t be keen on repeating it. Lots of hanging around at Bus Aras, more hanging around at the port, a long delay at immigration at Holyhead and then traffic in London meant we didn’t get to Victoria until after 10am. I was tempted to try sail/rail instead but it seems even more inconvenient.

Idbatterim · 29-01-2020 12:30pm

In the not too distant future , they will have electric planes for these distances. The large aircraft manufacturers , are already working on them !

machaseh · 29-01-2020 12:34pm

I would only ever do this if I had to travel with a lot of baggage. It sounds like an absolute nightmare.

I have often done 11 hour bus journeys within continental europe, but then you dont have the risk of boat delays. And when leaving from holland I could legally smoke a certain something that would put me right to sleep. Not legal here.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:35pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

In the not too distant future , they will have electric planes for these distances. The large aircraft manufacturers , are already working on them !

Interesting.

Ev cars are already very heavy due to the batteries.

Looking forward to see how they can get lightweight batteries into planes with enough energy to lift several hundred tonnes of plane, people and luggage into the air.

easypazz · 29-01-2020 1:14pm

markpb wrote: »

I took the bus Dublin - London - Dublin once a few years ago and I wouldn’t be keen on repeating it. Lots of hanging around at Bus Aras, more hanging around at the port, a long delay at immigration at Holyhead and then traffic in London meant we didn’t get to Victoria until after 10am. I was tempted to try sail/rail instead but it seems even more inconvenient.

How is there immigration at Holyhead?

If somebody had something to hide they would go via Belfast surely?

charlietheminxx · 29-01-2020 1:15pm

easypazz wrote: »

How is there immigration at Holyhead?

If somebody had something to hide they would go via Belfast surely?

You have to get off the bus with all your bags and walk them through scanners etc, they spot check passports too.

markpb · 29-01-2020 1:17pm

easypazz wrote: »

How is there immigration at Holyhead?

If somebody had something to hide they would go via Belfast surely?

Dunno about now but when I did it, all the buses were brought to a separate, gated holding area, everyone had to get off with their bags, bring them inside, show your passport or ID and then put your bags back on the bus. They wouldn’t let any bus leave until every passenger on every bus was cleared. One passenger on another bus had a problem so the whole thing took over an hour.

Fireball81 · 29-01-2020 1:19pm

You do realise Ryanair normally have flights from.€25pp to LGW, i quite often get them.

is_that_so · 29-01-2020 1:23pm

irish_goat wrote: »

What would be more beneficial would be corporates cutting down on the need for travel in the first place. My brother in law works for a big 4 company and they regularly send him fly him to meetings solely so the client will have met him face to face. Usually this it's the likes of Germany and Belgium but once he was sent to Hong Kong for a 30 minute meeting.

There's a whole face thing about some meetings, which trumps other things as it means losing clients.

Spook_ie · 29-01-2020 1:23pm

Fireball81 wrote: »

You do realise Ryanair normally have flights from.€25pp to LGW, i quite often get them.

Isn't flight shaming more to do with carbon footprints rather than cost and convenience?

is_that_so · 29-01-2020 1:25pm

trellheim wrote: »

A new word in work is flightshaming - take the train or bus instead of flying.

As a very regular Dublin-London , and reading all the coach withdrawals

What are the current service alternatives and timings for Dublin-London as an integrated journey eg Sailrail or eurolines or someone else And the return !

I know there's no sleeper service but can you get an 11pm bus from Connolly and wake up at 0800 in Victoria ?

If I get enough responses I'll edit this first post with the timings

The water in between is the problem and having done the relative hell of both am happy to be shamed.

Brian CivilEng · 29-01-2020 1:25pm

If you want to go overnight, the 02:15 Stena sailing from Dublin port gets you in to Holyhead at 05:45. There is a 05:50 direct train to London which may be possible to get, but the 6:50 is more likely. That gets to Euston at around 10:30.

A rail and sail fare is €50 each way (€47 if prebooked by phone).

BillyBird · 29-01-2020 1:31pm

is_that_so wrote: »

There's a whole face thing about some meetings, which trumps other things as it means losing clients.

I'd agree with both of you. Yes face to face is the best option but yes companies send staff on pointless trips just because the cost of flights are so cheap (relative to the revenue, time of the employee, etc.).

boardbeer · 29-01-2020 1:34pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Looking forward to see how they can get lightweight batteries into planes with enough energy to lift several hundred tonnes of plane, people and luggage into the air.

This plane would do Dubin to London and back on a charge, and its entering service in two years: Eviation Alice - with operating costs 1/5th of that of a jet, you could see it becoming a popular option.

KevRossi · 29-01-2020 1:40pm

abitofacomedian wrote: »

If you want to go overnight, the 02:15 Stena sailing from Dublin port gets you in to Holyhead at 05:45. There is a 05:50 direct train to London which may be possible to get, but the 6:50 is more likely. That gets to Euston at around 10:30.

A rail and sail fare is €50 each way (€47 if prebooked by phone).

I took this route a few times over the summer. I had a 2 month Interrail pass and had a bike with me a few times. It's handy for me as I live in Drumcondra and can get to the port by bike in 15mins or by taxi for €12.

I get about 2 hours sleep on the boat and 2 hours on the train. You can't get the 5:50 service, it's always the 6:50. But if you're heading to central London, you'll get there a bit later than a 7:00 am flight.

It's a long haul, more so if you're heading on to France or Germany. Can't recommend it it you're doing it on a regular basis.

It's the hanging around that gets me the most, especially in this kind of weather. You will wait for 30-45 mins in Holyhead until the train is ready and if coming the other way there's another wait. They need to coordinate the train times a bit better, but I don't see them doing this. A night train might be an idea again if there is demand for it.

I took the bus enough times in the early 90's to be sworn off it for life, can be OK, but I always get to sit near Mr./Mrs. Crazy.

Spook_ie · 29-01-2020 1:43pm

boardbeer wrote: »

This plane would do Dubin to London and back on a charge, and its entering service in two years: Eviation Alice - with operating costs 1/5th of that of a jet, you could see it becoming a popular option.

Yeah but then you run into airspace problems, did the video say 9 pax? so you'd need how many extra flights to cope with the demand.

CityJet's Avro ARJ85 Cabin is 95 pax so you'd need 10 Alices to replace each full flight to London City Airport

magicbastarder · 29-01-2020 1:50pm

doesn't liquid fuel like kerosene have about 50 times the energy density of batteries?
the weight of the fuel or energy storage makes much more of a difference in a plane than in a car.

my car has a range of about 1000km of careful driving, and the fuel weighs about 60kg. the leaf has a range of less than half that (i think) and the battery weighs five times as much as the fuel in my car.

boardbeer · 29-01-2020 2:23pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

doesn't liquid fuel like kerosene have about 50 times the energy density of batteries?

But only about a 1/3 of that gets used to do useful work, so it's down to a 1:16 ratio. Still not great for batteries, but they are likely to improve significantly with all the money being thrown at the problem.
More pragmatically and shorter-term would be the hybrid electric/turbines: the idea is to build a gas turbine to be embedded in the body of the plane, away from birds and stuff, and not having to optimise for thrust, that runs a generator, powering (many) electric fans located at optimal positions - this could potentially save 75% in fuel costs, something the Michael O'Learys of this world certainly take an interest in

boardbeer · 29-01-2020 2:27pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

CityJet's Avro ARJ85 Cabin is 95 pax so you'd need 10 Alice's to replace each full flight to London City Airport

True, but I'd imagine the solution will be scaled-up in time. But London City? Has to shut down at 10pm due to noise restrictions - that could be a big financial motivation to operate electrics.

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-01-2020 2:38pm

Ideally in the future, a simple 2m diameter tube on the seabed from Dub to HHead would do the job.
A quick push of the pod into the vacuum, would get you across the water in <7min
(with a bit of help from 1.5G magnetic propulsion).

Then some sort of connection onto their mainline HS2 (if it ever gets built).
HS2 might take until 2040, and well over £100bn, by which time Hyperloop projects around the world will be in existance, to replicate.

The problem with driving/buses is that you're going to spend extra time, carbon, and expense during the 12-16hrs
it takes to reach the final destination.

Brian CivilEng · 29-01-2020 2:38pm

KevRossi wrote: »

I get about 2 hours sleep on the boat and 2 hours on the train. You can't get the 5:50 service, it's always the 6:50.

The only time I've ever seen the 5:50 train was the time I had treated myself to a first class ticket on the 6:50.

Edgware · 29-01-2020 2:42pm

I did Krakow to London Victoria by coach. Motorway travel all the way. Interesting but never again

machaseh · 29-01-2020 3:06pm

Major Juicy Maze wrote: »

Ideally in the future, a simple 2m diameter tube on the seabed from Dub to HHead would do the job.
A quick push of the pod into the vacuum, would get you across the water in <7min
(with a bit of help from 1.5G magnetic propulsion).

Then some sort of connection onto their mainline HS2 (if it ever gets built).
HS2 might take until 2040, and well over £100bn, by which time Hyperloop projects around the world will be in existance, to replicate.

The problem with driving/buses is that you're going to spend extra time, carbon, and expense during the 12-16hrs
it takes to reach the final destination.

The boris Johnson bridge happening is more likely than this.

devnull · 29-01-2020 3:13pm

Edgware wrote: »

I did Krakow to London Victoria by coach. Motorway travel all the way. Interesting but never again

Have done Berlin to Warsaw on a bus in the middle of winter at -5c with the places covered in snow which took about 12 hours after flight was diverted to Berlin during an Aer Lingus work to rule dispute. Took just under 24 hours from Dublin to Warsaw in the end, totally shattering.

Only good thing is that they put on 3 coaches, two bog standard ones and a top of the range double decker that I was lucky to be on with movies, tea and coffee machines and water dispensers and a huge amount of legroom. Drivers were great craic too, few years later saw the same driver doing tour work in Ireland with the same coach!

Thelonious Monk · 29-01-2020 3:16pm

I used to be able to just rock up at Euston at about 9 and get a virgin train to holyhead which would have me in my ma's house in Dublin by 6pm. All in all it didn't work out that much longer than flying without all the hanging around in terminals and getting to the airport.
I never did it Dublin to London though.

thecretinhop · 29-01-2020 3:18pm

flight shaming?? what clowns invented this??

knucklehead6 · 29-01-2020 3:19pm

boardbeer wrote: »

This plane would do Dubin to London and back on a charge, and its entering service in two years: Eviation Alice - with operating costs 1/5th of that of a jet, you could see it becoming a popular option.

A Prototype had a lot of damage caused to it by a fire in Arizona only last week

Thelonious Monk · 29-01-2020 3:20pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

flight shaming?? what clowns invented this??

The Swedes, in an attempt to make us question if we need to fly so much, given how polluting it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/17/the-guardian-view-on-flight-shaming-face-it-life-must-change

MOH · 29-01-2020 3:28pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

flight shaming?? what clowns invented this??

Shhh. It's a great idea. The more people get on board with it the easier it will be for the rest of us to book cheap flights

Thelonious Monk · 29-01-2020 3:37pm

MOH wrote: »

Shhh. It's a great idea. The more people get on board with it the easier it will be for the rest of us to book cheap flights

More likely airlines will begin to fold and prices will go up.

MOH · 29-01-2020 3:42pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

More likely airlines will begin to fold and prices will go up.

Yeah, that risk occurred to me too. It's a fine line.

is_that_so · 29-01-2020 3:43pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

flight shaming?? what clowns invented this??

Social media!

Yakuza · 29-01-2020 3:51pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Interesting.

Ev cars are already very heavy due to the batteries.

Looking forward to see how they can get lightweight batteries into planes with enough energy to lift several hundred tonnes of plane, people and luggage into the air.

I'd imagine such planes will be festooned with lighweight PV panels; huge surface area to put them on and presumably they would fly high enough to be over cloud level most of the flight to get a decent amount solar energy. This could augment their battery packs. Or they could use them for commute only type flights where luggage would be a at a minimum.

magicbastarder · 29-01-2020 3:58pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The Swedes, in an attempt to make us question if we need to fly so much, given how polluting it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/17/the-guardian-view-on-flight-shaming-face-it-life-must-change

i'd never seen it expressed as 'flightshaming' till this thread, only ever as 'flight shame'. there's an important difference.

amadangomor · 29-01-2020 3:58pm

Was one of the first on a Eurolines from the UK to Holland years ago. Had a look at the back seat but there was a woman already on it and she appeared to lying down asleep - unlikely as she would have been only on it for a couple of minutes.

Clever chancer strategy says I slightly admiringly. A Dutch lad was having none of it "woke" her up and insisted she stop lying down so he could sit on one of the back seats

easypazz · 29-01-2020 4:24pm

MOH wrote: »

Shhh. It's a great idea. The more people get on board with it the easier it will be for the rest of us to book cheap flights

The only way people will switch back to "foot passenger traffic" and "boat trains" is if flight prices go up, a lot. And that will only happen if there is an international agreement to start imposing large carbon taxes on flying.

And there is no sign of that happening.

KevRossi · 29-01-2020 4:27pm

Not sure if anybody ever took 'The Magic Bus' from London to Athens in the late 80's/early 90's. It was between £50-60 one way. Was scheduled to take 3 days and 6 hours. Waaaayyy cheaper than a flight back then.

No booze and no drugs from London. Bus stopped in a Hypermarche near Calais so you could get off to buy a load of beer or wine. Stopped somewhere in Belgium to buy grass in a motorway lay-bye, the driver pulled a knife on the Belgian dealer when he wouldn't pay his commission. One toilet on board that was usually blocked somewhere in Germany; they would not empty it. Some very interesting people on board, some total headbangers too. No stops for showers as no stop was longer than 15-20 minutes. Any amount of aggro getting in and out of Yugoslavia and then Greece. Did it twice. Chaos/Madness.

They were the same company that ran the Magic Bus from London-Amsterdam and used to go to Kabul and Kathmandu on the Hippie trail in the 60's and 70's.

Never again.

devnull · 29-01-2020 4:31pm

KevRossi wrote: »

No booze and no drugs from London. Bus stopped in a Hypermarche near Calais so you could get off to buy a load of beer or wine.

Well known that, when I went on a school trip all those years ago the teachers loaded up with a load of booze and sneaked it on board and hid it on the coach, inside dummy first aid boxes, hidden in sealed compartments of luggage compartment of coach and behind panels of the bus, among other places.

endacl · 29-01-2020 4:40pm

I’ll be shamed into not flying once there’s a bus, train, or piggyback that can get me to my destination, travelling non-stop at over 800km/h, for €29.

trellheim · 29-01-2020 4:51pm

nice to see the eco lobby out in force

Anyway it looks like 0215 ex Dublin then miss the 0555 train and pick up the 0655 arriving 1036 into Euston which is not terrible

COming back 1517 Ex Euston not a direct train tho then 2015 ferry and back in Dublin 2330

A sleeper car added to one train in each direction would be lovely but cant do it with Voyagers but the three or four hours kip would make all the difference

JoseJones · 29-01-2020 5:09pm

easypazz wrote: »

The only way people will switch back to "foot passenger traffic" and "boat trains" is if flight prices go up, a lot. And that will only happen if there is an international agreement to start imposing large carbon taxes on flying.

And there is no sign of that happening.

I switched from flying to doing the sail and rail 90% of the time now. Just cba with all the hostility and hassle of the airport experience. I only go between Chester and Dublin though, a bit more manageable than the full London trip.

Obscurium · 29-01-2020 6:28pm

boardbeer wrote: »

This plane would do Dubin to London and back on a charge, and its entering service in two years: - with operating costs 1/5th of that of a jet, you could see it becoming a popular option.

This plane wouldn't be approved for Dublin to London flights as it's not equipped for over water flying. At best you could get some commuter flights out of it with maybe coast skimming but not over deep water.

Fireball81 · 29-01-2020 6:48pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Isn't flight shaming more to do with carbon footprints rather than cost and convenience?

True, can't see many employers allowing so much time to get to London and back when it can be done so quickly by air though (climate issues aside)

Dravokivich · 29-01-2020 6:56pm

Flying is great for making the world accessible, flying is bad for accessing the world :pac:

Flightshaming to London from Dublin

Comments